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Staying Busy and out of trouble, 2020-21?.

Started by Old Greenhorn, May 17, 2020, 09:40:32 AM

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Old Greenhorn

Quote from: nybhh on November 24, 2020, 08:12:10 PM
Here is one of the pics I took that shows the nice contrast between the heartwood and sapwood during that first oiling and as you mentioned, this should increase and become even stronger as it ages.......
Seems like most projects that use cherry try and avoid this heartwood/sapwood contrast but I feel like this piece is really enhanced by it as it seems to reinforce the waterfall effect. ...
Well, right or wrong, my philosophy in this stuff is to keep it as natural as possible and show the beauty nature has taken years to present. Trying to hide the sapwood in this case would make it look like something it is not.  Likewise taking off the branch bumps. I figured if they presented problems or looked ugly during the finishing process, I could trim them back and blend the shape into the curve of the bench. I also think doing that might have presented a very cool looking effect and I still may try it on another slab. But keep in mind, as you take them back, the heart size decreases and will eventually disappear, so it becomes a gamble. (Do you feel lucky punk? Well .. do ya?) Howard, I figured I would finish them out as presented and it turned out to look appealing (to me) so I just smoothed and rounded them for effect and comfort on the eyes (and calves).
Maybe the next one will look better, maybe it won't. One day at a time, right? It's just another bench. :D
I just came back in from the shop and added another coat, colors are darkening and I am keeping the temp as warm as I can overnight to allow the wood to soak it up. (it's 72 out there now.) Did I mention I love the smell of linseed oil? It brings back my youngest memories. Pop used linseed oil often and in the last two days I began to appreciate why. He used it on gunstocks, ax handles and a lot of other stuff, actually any 'important' wood. I think I still have the last can he never emptied somewhere around here. I love the smell and the feel. (It makes my fingers and hands feel silky and smooth. :D) He used to wipe it on a gunstock all over and get it slick, then put down the rag and continue to rub it with his hand. Said said the warmth of your hand and the friction on the stock caused a localized heat that would hep the oil soak in and penetrate and keep the wood 'alive', that is, keep it from drying out. He would spend an hour massaging a new stock he was fitting to a rifle adding a few drops once in a while, then do it again the next night and repeat for a week or so. Linseed oil and Neatsfoot oil are two of the most powerful memory smells from my childhood.
But I digress.....and tomorrow is another day.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Walnut Beast


Old Greenhorn

A very frustrating day today. I guess I was due. I got a text this morning from a previous customer. He is the one I gave a healthy discount to, threw in some extra wood, and he still chewed me down on the price crying poverty. Then I messed up my back putting my pile back together after he picked through every board. The resulting Chiro appointments were not even covered by the money I made for the sale. He promised me at least a half days work at the mill to make up for it, never heard a word, and he never checked to see how I was doing. All that kind of soured me on his business. He contacted me a week or so ago about needing more wood. I was direct and said "send me a specific list and I will work up the price". "OK" he says, " I will send it tonight"....nothing. This morning I get a text from him " Hey! Are you available at all today? I'd like to come pick out some maple both for dance boards and some home projects ... but I am getting kind of stumped without being able to see it in front of me. Maybe I can pick some stuff up and place the order for the rest since I might need some cuts made / prep work ". I sent him back a text and this time made myself clear, this is my exact text, name omitted "[Name] I really thought you were just going to send me a cut list. Going thru my piles was an exception last time. It made a mess and the Chiropractor visits cost me more than the lumber I sold. I gave you a great price with extra wood thrown in besides and then you 'offered' me even lower. You said you would come back and help me mill but I never heard a word. Yes, you can come look, but I am watching my Grandsons today so there may be some distractions.  The maple I have is mostly accessable, but we are not pulling piles apart so you can look at each board. I am not sure when I will have time to mill to order now and I do not believe I have any maple logs on hand. Let me know when you are coming. Around mid-day is best. "
The rest of the morning I am getting sporadic texts from him. First was the apology. Then stuff like this: " I'm not sure how the quarter system or pricing in boardfeet works, but I need the following in maple:

SHELVES
• 2 pieces; 6ft x 10" boards, any acceptable thickness for shelving

DANCE BOARDS
• 48 board feet; 3/4" thick by 3" wide
• 24 board feet; 1" thick by 3" wide.

The most important dimension for me is the thickness of the floorboards. If you have nothing at the 3/4" thickness, what could be done?

No Add'l planing.

If you have only "x6" width, that's fine. I have a cheap table saw that I can use to rip the pieces to be 3" width

What would be the total for the above? Can you break it out so I know how much for each item? "

I know what he is making and the numbers didn't sound right. There is no way this guy is gonna pay for 48 + 24 BF of maple, and it is WAY over what he needs for his little build project. Lots of texts back and forth with questions and confused responses separated by hours some times. Finally after a lot of teaching he seems to understand there is a big difference between Board feet and Linear Feet. He finally shows up at 5pm and buys 2 1x10x6' boards. Whoopie.

In the meantime I was trying to put some wax on that cherry bench and it is not just coming up the way I had hoped. Try as I might, it is still dull. I may be working at it too hard. So that put me in a foul mood. I will go give it another shot after this post.


 

It's smooth and flat with a very nice buttery look, but I just don't know. I had hoped for a little more shine.


 

I think I have 4 or 5 good coats on the top and it is improving slightly but still seems dull. Maybe I am just too picky, but I don't think so.
Yesterday I came across some roadkill firewood, nicely cut and stacked by the highway guys from a storm blow down. Took me about 2 minutes to fill the truck. Today I split and stacked it, about a half cord, and also discovered a flat tire on the splitter that I have to address on another day. First time the splitter every gave me a hard time starting. Don't know why.
We also had the 3 boys here today and they decided to play hide and seek in the shop this afternoon. Just about drove me crazy. By the time they got picked up I was just about out of patience.
Tomorrow is the holiday and we are not having the usual big family thing. Just the boys and their Dad are coming over. My Daughter and SIL will be staying at home, and my Sister will be with her 2 kids. Always next year.
Time for the evening chores.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Walnut Beast

Greenhorn sounds like you have definitely had some excitement 😂. Next time tell them you got a bad back and if there going to pick through they need to stack it back like it was since you got a bad back 

doc henderson

It looks good and has that natural look.  you can always go back to a lacquer or poly.  I have done the Danish oil and wax, but mostly on walnut.  as the wood darkens, it may look closer to what you have in your mind.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

21incher

It looks really  nice with the natural  finish.  Put it in a sunny  spot for a couple  weeks and let the cherry color come out. I use the Johnson's paste wax and with  about  2 coats it looks good but put too many  coats on and it can get cloudy so more wax doesn't always help. Cherry  is my favorite wood.  Good job.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Old Greenhorn

I dunno Doc, I am hopeful but...
 I am sitting here reading this book that Brandon loaned me called 'Understanding Wood Finishing' by Bob Flexnor. Had I read this before I went with the Linseed oil, I never would have gone there. I think maybe I made a mistake. This book goes into great detail on exactly what is in these finishes and how they work with and on the wood and it dispels a lot of myths, ones I have held for a long time and now feel foolish about. 
 If tomorrow weren't a holiday I might be out in the shop early sanding all this off to see how I can salvage it. Right now I think I will finish this beer and head to bed and try to think about something else.
 Yes, this piece could come out looking fine if I stay the course and give it some time. But the resulting finish will do nothing to protect the wood and the finish itself. I have not gotten to the section on waxes yet but I am pretty sure the news there isn't going to be good either. This is why I am not a woodworker. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

doc henderson

I think this is how you become a woodworker.  someone will love it.  the wax may cause trouble with a water based finish.  if you want to start over, maybe wipe it down to debulk the wax.  you doing great.   smiley_beertoast
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

nybhh

Oh man, You spent so many years at your craft before retirement and became such an expert at what you did, you just forgot what its like for the rest of us to be figuring the crap (life) out as we go!

You had your 10,000 hours or whatever it is to be an expert and that knowledge and familiarity becomes comfortable but it also gets boring as he!!.  Now you are doing something new and learning through trial and experimentation, which can be uncomfortable at times, (especially for perfectionist 😉).   I for one am super impressed by how this has turned out and don't really see that anything has changed.   If it was good enough for your father's gun stocks, it is certainly good enough for this bench and it seems to me like the silky fingers and walk down memory lane alone was worth it.

Its your bench of course and your decision but if I recall, there is a sister slab that can be used to try a different finish so think about keeping that as a comparison piece to see how wears and ages before sinking a lot of time into refinishing.   I personally prefer the look of this more natural, less glossy finish.  Shiny doesn't equate to better IMHO.
Woodmizer LT15, Kubota L3800, Stihl MS261 & 40 acres of ticks trees.

Old Greenhorn

Well the issue is, as I am reading I have come to learn that Linseed oil does nothing to create a finish. It does allow for a little bit of growth/shrinkage protection because it fills the fiber gaps preventing some moisture vapor from taking up the space, but beyond that, not much. As I said I have not read the wax section yet, but that ain't lookin' too good neither. ;D It's certainly not a failure, but I don't really like the way it appears. The piece should look better than that. I am already very used to 'starting over' with many other pieces and sanding it all down. I don't believe I can sand all of this out this time because of the penetration depth but I believe it will lighten. 
 On a technical level, I believe that only 'mistake' I made was in not giving the linseed oil more time (a few days at least), to cure up. That book sure is learning me up a lot on the technical side of things and I may need to hang onto it for a couple of weeks to get through the whole thing. Knowledge is power.
 I look at it as I made a tiny mis-step and am now going to correct my path before I go further down that road. No big deal.

 Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Enjoy it as you can.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Nebraska

I get that you want the bench  to be perfect in form and finish.   There's no flies in that finish that I can see, and it's a beatiful piece as I see it.  I can't imagine someone not being happy with it. Have a great Thanks Giving.

nybhh

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.  

Hang on to it as long as you need.  I'm in drywall finishing mode for the foreseeable future and don't expect it to help much with that 😉.  Its a good book though but I don't know squat about finishing.  Maybe a day or two off will give you the perspective to make a decision on it.
Woodmizer LT15, Kubota L3800, Stihl MS261 & 40 acres of ticks trees.

Old Greenhorn

Well I am happy with it Nebraska, or I was until I saw the finish. It's all just a little adventure to get it right. It is pretty. But I think I can do better.
 I just came back in from tending the shop stove and I took 40 minutes or so to sand off the underside of this thing. The wax and linseed oil filled about 15 of my somewhat worn-out sanding discs. I should have just gone to 80 grit and started over, but at least I can finally throw those discs out. I am 'frugal' and save the worn ones to either use for hand sanding or some other downgraded use before disposal. They had been building up.
 I will spend some time with the book today and see if I can come up with a new plan. It's part of the trail and in no way am I not happy, just extended the length of the trail a little bit. :D
 I am not so much looking for perspective as I am knowledge Brandon. It looks good no matter what I do, but I would like to see if I can make it look better and 'discover' the right way to do this.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

doc henderson

sounds like you are learning a lot more, having been a little disappointed with it.
be sure to read my DSDT post, should cheer you up!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

tule peak timber

One of the tricks working with oil is to add a SMALL amount of Japan Dryer. This dryer will "set" the oil fully hard overnight-works well with linseed or tung oil and their blends.Linseed will darken over time but is cheaper than tung oil and easier to find.
  Look at adding a small amount of solvent based poly top coat to your oil and possibly some color (brown or cherry) as a tint and you will be styling 8) This will leave you a finish to bounce the wax off of.
  The bench with the two branch knobs sticking out is VERY nice looking. Cheers  WOC
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Old Greenhorn

Well with the holiday I backed off for the day to read and think on it, then I would go out to the shop to tend the stove and go look again and think some more. As I said, I sanded the undersides this morning, this needed re-sanding anyway, some stuff showed up after oiling that I had missed when it was white. But I didn't touch the top and outsides. I read a bunch more. Funny but what you said in the previous post Rob took me about 3 hours of reading to grasp. I went out to the shop a few times to do some label reading and did some online lookups of various products I already have. The veil is beginning to lift from my eyes, slowly, but it's lifting. Now I am looking at everything I have, or have already used in a new light. Most of it I was using incorrectly and did not understand how it worked.
 My new plan is to go with the Watco Danish oil finish, which is an oil varnish blend. Do a coat a day, sanding between coats. Give it an extra day after the final coat, then maybe some wax. It should stay as a satin finish, not real shiny, and have that buttery effect. I do not think I need the Japan dryer, but what do you think Rob? If I did use it, I am not sure what you mean by a 'SMALL amount'. I figure about a shot glass, maybe 2 will do a coat on this whole bench. How much dryer would you add to that? Drops? 5%? could I do it by weight? I don't have any japan dryer and the closest I could find it actually closer to Brandon than me, but I could take the ride if it would make a significant difference.
 I went out there an hour ago and took another look. You know, it really looks pretty nice and if it looked like this yesterday I might not be fretting. But still, it is not what I was shooting for and as I already have half of it cleaned and re-sanded, I am going to continue and do the rest, just because I can. :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

tule peak timber

Watco has the dryer built in already. We use 1oz per gallon on oil blends and that is considered very strong. WOC
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Old Greenhorn

OK, I will forgo it then. I have been satisfied with how this stuff dries anyway and now I know why, but like most things, that is not clear on the label. ;D
 I am considering that poly wipe too, but would like to see how it looks after 3-4 coats of the Danish, then decide. Considering how often my plans changed for this in the last 24 hours, I think I will wait. :D

 By the way, speaking of Danish, do you know that all Danish Boy Scouts are required to have a tattoo? Yeah, it's their Den Mark. :D ;D 8)
 (Sorry, been hanging out with Doc too much.)
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

WV Sawmiller

Tom,

   Sounds like you have been in the OR with him breathing too much of that happy gas. Be careful. Stay safe guys. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 26, 2020, 08:49:12 PM
Tom,

  Sounds like you have been in the OR with him breathing too much of that happy gas. Be careful. Stay safe guys. :D
Last time I was in an O/R I was neither happy nor breathing well. (pneumothorax, 1976) If I ran into Doc it would be in the E/R where he is most comfortable and I am a lot less uncomfortable. :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on November 26, 2020, 08:27:35 PMBy the way, speaking of Danish, do you know that all Danish Boy Scouts are required to have a tattoo? Yeah, it's their Den Mark.
That's a good one but to be technically correct, that would be the Cub Scouts - they have Dens, the Boy Scouts have Patrols.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Old Greenhorn

yes, I know. 30 years in Scouting served as a den leader, cubmaster, MC, ASM, SM, and many other position in several packs an troops. Just trying to put it out in a way the general public might get it.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

doc henderson

the walnut bench (my fave) was watco Danish oil with wax on top.  burnished with steel wool.  so to be sure, you used the boiled linseed oil?  the boiled means it has some chemical dryers in it.  as I am sure you know.  Denmark...  Denmark...  that's funny   :D :D
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Old Greenhorn

Yes, boiled. You should get a copy of that book I mentioned above. Teaches you about all these finishes, how they work, what is in them, and how very poorly they are labeled. Raw linseed oil can take a very long time to dry, hence the added dryers. Turns out, that oil really does nothing to protect the wood at all but take up some space in the fibers, add nothing to the surface. Neither does wax except to deflect some spills for a short period. Hence my re-thinking of all my choices.
 I have added steel wool to my repertoire', it works good as does the sscotchbrite Rob recommended. Of course I lost my scotchbrite source when I retired, so now I have to buy it.  >:(
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

So I bit the bullet and stripped the bench this morning and got the whole thing back to the white state.


 
I blew through a lot of sanding discs loading up with Linseed oil even after I washed the whole thing with mineral spirits. Finally after a while it came back through. Then another wipe down with mineral spirits and a tack cloth and allowed to dry for a while, I applied the Dansih Oil Finish. It would be easier to follow the directions if they all agreed. Watco application data sheet says one thing, and the can says another. They don't agree. Then there is what my new favorite book says, which makes more sense, gives a better result than I have had in the past, and I am going with. It kind of splits the difference. One coat and I am liking it so far.


 

It seems to be bringing out a little more of the Cherry colors, is not nearly as yellow, and has that buttery look to it. Unless something goes really wrong, this is what I am sticking with. I believe this looks good so far and it should get better after this first sealing coat. Keeping the shop at a steady 70° for this to cure up right today. Next coat goes on at about 4pm after a light sanding.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

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