Have YOU had COVID-19?

[doc henderson]

Lots of good people are getting bad information, so that is the potential harm.  More than preventing the disease, the hope with the vaccine is to have a smaller percent of people need to be in the hospital, and hopefully fewer people die.  It is not a fun death.   month in ICU culminating on a ventilator, and family unable to be at your side.  there are scenarios where the hospital people lock the doors and go home.  It is a little like Joe with a 4 wheel drive lifted truck, ridding around in the tornado and flood, and ends up needed EMS to rescue him.  I see where @sawguy was comming from.  much of the anti vaccine info is coming from the same folks that have thought that way about every vaccine for 30 years.  I appreciate that @Walnut Beast is still listening, and looking for answers.  thanks guys, we are all friends here.

[Southside]

Would have preferred to stay home. Had to bury my father. He took the J+J, developed confusion, heart issues right off the bat. Went downhill in a hurry, 30 days or so. His primary "thinks" it was a reaction to the pred he was on, I saw signs of minor stroke / blood clot. Ruled as heart failure. 

My brother in law took the same shot at the same time,51, works out, in great shape. Had a heart attack right at the same time my father started rapidly declining. 

Immunity and massive profitability for big pharma continues. 

Don't give in to pressure folks, decide for yourself.

[doc henderson]

@southside.  I am very sorry.

[Ianab]

In the local outbreak, 84% of the patients are not vaccinated, 12% have had one shot. and 4% are fully vaccinated. None of the folks in hospital are fully vaccinated.

What's the percentage of vaccinated in NZ right now?

About 28% with both shots, and 58% with one. 
So even throwing those numbers into the equation, the vaccine appears to help a lot.

[Paul_H]

 much of the anti vaccine info is coming from the same folks that have thought that way about every vaccine for 30 years.  

All 5 of my children were vaccinated growing up ,my eldest never had any of her children vaccinated but got the gene therapy for them all recently so they can travel. Strange science.
I can pretty well pick out who has taken the therapy around here ,it's the ones that were jumpy last year at 10' distance but will now invade our staff's personal space now they have a little artificial courage from a couple of vaccines. I heard Biden was calling for boosters every 6 months but the CDC said probably every 8 months.
The hypocrisy of calling tragic personal stories adverse reactions to the shots anecdotal or unsubstantiated but padding covid numbers is staggering. Not pointing any fingers here at all but silence is to assent and tarring all with the same brush is foolishness.
Lets use honest scales in weighing all sides and respect one another's decisions.

[doctorb]

Latest CDC data show hospitalizations are 16:1 non-vaccinated versus vaccinated.  Not much dispute about that data as it confirms many other publications/reports since June 2021.  

[Ianab]

Latest numbers for Victoria, Australia where they have ~1700 active cases.

There are 89 people being treated for coronavirus in Victorian hospitals, 24 are in intensive care units and 13 are on ventilators.

"Only one person who is in hospital has been fully vaccinated, again just making the point that if you are double-dose protected with either of the vaccines that are available, then you are almost certain to avoid very serious illness," Andrews said.

Covid-19 Australia: Victoria's Delta outbreak 'a pandemic of the unvaccinated' | Stuff.co.nz
That would seem to suggest up to an 88 to 1 ratio?

[Southside]

Thanks @doc henderson I do respect what you are doing, but there is a whole other side to all of this that gets lost in the weeds.  First the CDC "Indisputable data" gets completely blown out of the water when one looks at the data coming from Israel - the most "vaccinated" country on the planet.  Their numbers are polar opposite - so which do you believe?  That is a legit question.  The FDA just lost their top two folks in charge of the jab program because of the overwhelming politicization of this entire event.  Basically the White House is steamrolling the FDA - so again - who do you believe?

We get comfortable with that which is familiar, and we are so much more observant to that which we are not familiar.  We have many customer interactions here on the farm due to the varied nature of the business, so by no means are we isolated - however I almost never leave here because I simply can't get enough help and have to carry the balance.  That gives me a perspective that others don't get to see - namely the mission creep that many are exposed to daily - I get to see the changes which have taken place over the course of weeks, or many months at a time.  Rather than being the frog in the pot of water which is getting hotter, I am the frog who sticks his foot in now and then and lately the reaction has been "Dang that is hot" while all the other frogs are just floating around looking at me.  

My recent trip became compressed and rushed due to the remains of Ida hammering the mid-Atlantic and north east.  I had not planned to fly but that was no longer an option.  What I found peculiar is the absolute overwhelming contradiction of requirements which exist.

Walk into the airport and all you hear is "social distancing, wear your mask, we are keeping you safe", yadda, yadda, yadda.  Make your way over to the gate and every other seat is blocked from being used - social distancing.  Constant intercom reminders that the airline - the private business - is sanitizing the plane, cleaning every surface, changing air filters, fogging it with Lysol etc - to prevent the spread of the Wu Flu.  Make your way over to the bathroom in the municipally funded airport - you know the one paid for with taxes and by the authorities who make the rules - and you will find "touchless faucets" - 3/4 of which don't work, soap dispensers without soap, and every trash can overflowing with waste paper because they don't have enough staff to keep up - never mind have staff "constantly cleaning every surface" like the airlines are required to do - rules for thee, not me it is.  

Time to board the airplane, the flight attendant is passing out alcohol wipes for folks to pre-clean their already clean surfaces, at the same time they are telling you to get into your seat so the rest of the sardines can get crammed in.  So the same stranger that you had to leave a seat between you in the terminal is now rubbing elbows with you for the entire flight, in a smaller space, with less air volume and exchange handling capacity.  Other that who was paying the bill for the seat what has changed?  One situation is safer than the other?  

FDA and CDC are screaming that Ivermectin is useless against Covid - Japan just told folks it was time to use the treatment.   Who do you believe?

James Brady lived for 33 years after he was shot during the attempt on President Reagans life, yet his cause of death was determined to be a homicide due to the injury he received on that fateful day, over 33 years earlier.

Today if someone dies a month or two after being jabbed with an experimental substance that nobody knows what the broad or long term reactions to actually are, "the science" automatically dismisses any causal connection between the two, even if the complications presented are identical.      
 
It's very easy to get caught up in a system that one had dedicated their lifes work to.  Nobody wants to be wrong, especially on a grand scale.  The road to Hades is paved with good intentions.  

The fear mongering needs to stop, and we need to prepare folks to deal with and survive the infection when they get it, should they accept or refuse the government chosen experimental treatment material.  

[doc henderson]

I will not disagree with what you have said @Southside .  I, like you, want to make sure that no one is only hearing one side.  what we are seeing is many more unvaccinated folks.  I agree that their are potential and probable side effect to the vaccine, but it seems they are less than the disease.  we are seeing hypercoagulable stuff with both, but seems worse with the disease.  I have seen PEs, strokes and heart attacks, sudden death and atrial fibrillation at around a month after the disease and some after the vaccine.  I do not see enough on my own to form an opinion, so we try to look at data.  no one person can personally read everything out their, and much has not been studied.  I hope I am not perceived as fear mongering, but wonder what people want from us that are not sick but show up at 2 am for a rapid test and take up a bed in the ED, with 5 people waiting who are potentially sick.  It is an ED docs worst fear to have someone die waiting in the waiting room.  I know you know I mean well and that means a lot to me.  When did you loose your Dad?  I hope you and the rest of your family do OK.

[Southside]

There is no valid reason a person who isn't showing signs of sickness should be allowed into the ED just to take a test.

Your hospital administrator needs to step up, set a trailer in the parking lot, and have those tests provided there via contract services so you and your staff can focus on providing care to those who need it. 

On several occasions I had to deal with hospital admins when we had homicide victims transported to their facility, evidence recovery, etc. Honestly I was never impressed with any of them, always concerned with their image more than anything.  We simply did what we had to do. 

Best example I can think of was one where she would not release medical records for which I had a search warrant to obtain. When three of us knuckle draggers walked into the records room and began looking at files her desire to be helpful suddenly appeared. 

I have said it before, the medical staff on the front lines are clearly doing amazing work, but once it gets past that the same can not always be said. 

He passed on the 23rd.

[azmtnman]

Lots of good people are getting bad information, so that is the potential harm.  More than preventing the disease, the hope with the vaccine is to have a smaller percent of people need to be in the hospital, and hopefully fewer people die.  It is not a fun death.   month in ICU culminating on a ventilator, and family unable to be at your side.  there are scenarios where the hospital people lock the doors and go home.  It is a little like Joe with a 4 wheel drive lifted truck, ridding around in the tornado and flood, and ends up needed EMS to rescue him.  I see where @sawguy was comming from.  much of the anti vaccine info is coming from the same folks that have thought that way about every vaccine for 30 years.  I appreciate that @Walnut Beast is still listening, and looking for answers.  thanks guys, we are all friends here.

If I haven't learned anything else from this pamdemic, I have learned that you can find "evidence" to support anything you want to believe. 
  I've been laughed at when I tell people my only source for pandemic knowledge is the Forestry Forum!  :D :D :D Right until I explain that the doctors here are just good, honest, educated people applying their common sense with no political or corporate agenda. We all go to our doctors and listen when they say "If I were in your place, I would...." That's the best we can get.
   @doc henderson , @Ianab , I've said it before and I'll reiterate, thank you for helping us out. The hours you've spent typing out explainations and sharing your knowlege are not unappreciated.

[doctorb]

I think the take away from the Israeli and the US data is that the vaccine is much better protective against serious disease versus not having it, but the vaccine does not protect against infection, and the vaccine is no where as overall protective as we had hoped.

[Paul_H]

Are there no alternate or additional treatments to fight this lab produced virus? If a lab made it, maybe they can fight it even for a small stipend.

[beenthere]

Wishing the best to those who choose not to be vaccinated (and the others as well).
My brother-in-law was a non-believer and now can't work, is deep in debt from some poor financial decisions, was in hospital ICU for the month of June but home now on an oxygen tube up his nose. Lost his construction job which was his hope for getting out of debt. 
He can't go back to reconsider his decision. 

Daughter is a nurse in an hospital and says time is fast approaching that the shot will have to be required to keep the job, even tho nurses are in short supply.  

Wish everyone well while this runs its course.. or even if it does not. 

Thanks to the Forum for some great professional guidance; doctorb, doc henderson and others.

[doc henderson]

Well it goes to show that we are more like a forestry family, than a forum.  The goal of us promoting the vaccine is to try to save lives and we believe we are doing the right thing.  There is obviously still going to be loss of life.  some may be from the treatment as sadly illustrated by @southsides experience.  we cannot go back and see what the numbers would be without the vaccine.  We do not know what the state of the medical system (term used loosely) would be.  might be the whole thing would be over if we had let it rip through.  I assume there would have been more loss of life.  Our new company is mandating the vaccine for all providers (midlevel & physician) by November or you are fired.  if you get sick and had the vaccine you will get paid time off, not if without.  I do not agree with heavy handed stuff.  they are not taking anything away, but offering extra pay for work related injury.  Nest week we are hosting the Kansas state fair so our town of 45K and will have an extra 400K people here for 10 days.  The hospital staff is down so we have been at max for the past month, with long wait times in the waiting room and in the ED to go to the floor.  Patients needing transfer because we are full or cannot meet their needs, are waiting up to 3 days (72 hours) in the ED.  they are taking up the bed for the next heart attack or covid respiratory failure that walks in the front door.  Last week we had 3 complex fractures all at once and the local sawbones wanted them transferred to a higher level of care.  we have a state group that looks for the nearest hospital as Wichita hospital are all on diversion.  They found beds in Wisconsin.  we call several local docs and kept them home.  I am worried for the next 2 weeks.  we may loose staff.  We could see the scenario with 100 people standing outside the hospital.  @Southside , the testing station is a good one and I will suggest that at out next taskforce weekly meeting.  Again very sorry to hear about your Dad, and family.  Godspeed Jim.

[doc henderson]

@Southside as you might guess the person with no symptoms told they can get a rapid test at Walmart, suddenly develops a headache, shortness of breath, muscle aches, and chest pain.  We have successfully had only one father and son agree to do that.  last year our tent lasted 3 days in the Kansas wind.

[charles mann]

In Jan of 20, before there were tests and not much know of the full symptoms, i came down with something that put me on the ground for a little over 10 days. My first sign of a cold/flue was the normal scratchy throat, slight fever and a lil belly ache. I went on with my normal routine and the 2nd day, i got up for work at 0600, the bed was sweated down, couldnt stay warm, but went on to work. By lunch, i felt fine, but come 1800, i started feeling real bad, and by 0200 when we left the hanger, i couldnt talk, high fever, vomiting and that dry cough. I got on my plane from vancouver island, to vancouver, went through us customs, and on to dfw where my wife picked me up for the 3hr drive hm. 8 days of sleeping on the couch to prevent my constant coughing from waking the wife up, i started feeling better but still not up to my norm. Fast fwd to mid summer of this yr,came down with something for several months, dry cough for 3-4 days, coughing up lung chunks and blood for another 2wks and my lungs still arent back to normal, even for a pack a day smoker. Last month when a pilot and rear cabin guy tested +, which caused a new flt crew to be brought in and the crew stayed working. Then one of the junior supervisors that had the vax tested + 3 days ago. Luckily, he will have the isolation time and if he gets a - test, can help with acft tear down for ship loading.

[Stephen1]

South Side I'm sorry to hear about your Father. 
Because I live in the boonies, I hear more about problems with the vaccine than the Virus. When I ask people with the problems from the vaccine if it was reported, I am usually told that their DR. didn't consider it a vaccine problem. 
My son inlaw had his great grandfather get the Booster, 3rd dose, 99 years old, myocarditus(?) he was taken to hospital where he contracted COVID and then died. 2 week window.  It was listed as a covid death, not a vaccine death. Go figure. If there is 1 example there are thousands more. 
I know the virus is hard on certain people, but it seems these  vaccine's are definetly hard on certain people also. 
i am just sitting back and waiting for this to play out. 

[JDowns71]

I can only give an observation based on my own experiences around me.  I haven't been vaccinated yet and probably will before I head back to Phoenix for the winter.  I haven't received a flu shot in almost 30 years and have never gotten the flu.  I did go through a period of 15 years of yearly tonsillitis where every few years was bad enough to go to the ER to have the tonsils or my throat drained of fluids.  Finally had those taken out 5 years ago.

Two of my cousins who lead unhealthy lifestyles with bar food or fast food as their primary nutritional intake both got Covid and both were fully vaccinated.  One spent a week in the ER on a ventilator and then got better and went home, the other was in bed for a few days.

My niece who recovered from Leukemia four years ago got Covid this fall, immediately after returning to school.  Got nothing but the sniffles along with two more of my nieces in the same household.

My sister and brother in law in the same household of my nieces both are fully vaccinated and both got Covid shortly after my nieces.  Both were in bed for a few days and didn't need to go to the hospital.  My sister actually got sicker after her first shot then she did with Covid after fully vaccinated.  Both my sister and brother-in-law lead healthy lifestyles with proper nutrition and exercise. 

I do wish the FDA and CDC would be far more open about the vaccine(s), break through cases, side effects, waning immunity, etc.   It just appears as though they are trying to shove it down your throat without having a fully open and honest discussion.  When the medical profession (FDA / CDC) become political then trust will quickly erode.

[trapper]

found out my sistterinlaw fully vaccinated has covid.