Maple sugaring questions

[Jdock]

As I have a job which requires very little mental engagement I spend a lot of time doing things like reading this forum. A side effect of this is I wind up with new projects I have neither time, money or knowledge to approach in a reasonable manner. Fortunately I'm pretty stupid and apparently don't learn from past failure so this year you wonderful people have inspired me to make maple syrup. After all, how hard can it be? After the first couple of taps yielded enough sap for roughly a qt of syrup basically overnight and I cooked it the next day on the kitchen stove I was already fully down the rabbit hole, searching for more trees, borrowed a bunch of spiles and tubing from a friend of mine, planning a sugar house, ect....

Now the cold has set back in for a few days and sap is frozen solid I have a little time to improve my system which currently involves 5 gallon buckets and a fair amount of walking through steep terrain. A buddy just gave me an old ibc tote he'd been using for potable water and if I put it on the hill directly behind my garage it'll never see direct sunlight and also be just above my proposed location for the fire pit/ sugar house. Not to mention it's downhill from all my trees aside from the big sugar maple in the front yard.

Here's where my last bit of rational thought begins to admit defeat as I sit here mindlessly watching a machine do the same thing over and over. I keep reading about vacuum on the lines and how much it increases yield per tap as well as extending the productive time. My poor little brain says that if I go to all the trouble of piping everything to a central collection point how hard could it be to add vacuum. At this point I realize that I went over my zero budget when I bought half a dozen food safe buckets and my hvac vac pump probably isn't an acceptable option. I do however have one potential source of free vacuum available 24/7 with little maintenance and using material I mostly have already scrounged.

The main natural resource on my property is change in elevation. A good portion of my property is flat, just in the vertical plane. There's a pretty decent spring near the top, flows enough to consistently keep a 1" pipe full. My thought is something along the lines of a 150' vertical column of water should pull a fair amount of vacuum if one were to y a dry side pipe in near the top. Strategically placed Ball valves could essentially alter the various restrictions and velocities to optimize the system. In my mind this creates a free, perpetual vacuum using energy that's currently being wasted that could be plumbed into my system. There are a few details to work out though. Like how much vacuum is required to be effective? How much vacuum will an ibc take? Would the volume of air being sucked through a 1/2" pipe be enough to make a difference assuming a reasonably tight system. Is the whole thing a waste of time for the 15 or so maple trees I've located that are big enough to tap? Iv got about a quart of syrup worth of experience so any input is valuable to me, even if it just confirms that I'm an idiot.

[Stephen1]

Your IBC tote will take no vacuum. 
Run 3/8"line down your hill and a natural vacuum will occur. Just the 5/16 line will give you vacuum, not as much but it will work to bring you the sap.
 Make sure the top tap has an extension above the tap. 

[celliott]

You're right, you already have the "free" source of vacuum however you're going about it the hard way. 
Get some 3/16 diameter tubing. Put 10+ taps, up to 20ish, on each run of tubing. Get your tank as low as possible. Depending on actual elevation drop, your top trees on the line could see 27" of natural vacuum. No need to mess around with pipe. I've seen systems up to 500 taps set up with 3/16 tubing and zero mainlines. No wire, no mainline pipe, no fittings, no vacuum pump, no releaser, etc. it's a great option for smaller scale such as you describe.
I would recommend a semi rigid tubing all around. Much easier to work with. You can push fittings together by hand with hot water. Get a tension hook tool (less than 20 bucks) or make one and you're in business. As many dropline tees as you expect taps, a couple end hooks, connectors with hooks, and  of course spouts, should be all you need.
Make your runs as tight as you can, should be no sags. Try and avoid unnecessary zig zags as it actually wastes tubing compared to more straighter runs. Terminate the top of the run with an end hook fitting, wrapped all the way around the tree. At the bottom (tank) end, I would stretch a piece of fence wire over your tank and start your run by hooking the connector with hook in the wire. Add a small length of tubing to go down into the tank.
If you get this far, we can talk leak checking.
BTW, I'll wager even 15 taps on steep 3/16 tubing will overwhelm your cooking capacity!
Good luck!
Where are you located?
I literally do this for a living. Install maple tubing systems and make sap/syrup. Sounds simple but there is a lot of little nuances and tricks that can make or break and make life a lot easier. From this scale to tens and hundreds of thousands of taps. 
Feel free to ask any questions, I'm happy to answer.

[Jdock]

Chris, you answered the question I forgot to ask, which was tubing capacity. My 15 to 20 taps will all be carried on one 3/16 line if you think it'll carry it. I'm assuming t connectors will connect the 5/16 tap lines into the 3/16 main line?  The system will have to have 2 branches, one with 3 taps and the other with the rest. I can y them together maybe 10' above the tank. Total head might be 75' from the highest tap. I'm in the far NW corner of nc in the southern appalachian mountains. Would be marginal for sugaring if not for the elevation which keeps us from getting the early spring the rest of the state experiences. I really appreciate the advice, I literally knew nothing about it prior to reading your thread while bored at work. 

[mike_belben]

Im not really sure here but does 5/16 drops into 3/16 mainline make sense?

[Jdock]

It doesn't make sense at all unless you're trees happen to have 5/16 spiles already in them due to free equipment and a total lack of planning/ foresight. 

[mudfarmer]

Im not really sure here but does 5/16 drops into 3/16 mainline make sense?

It doesn't "not" make sense, it's just that it means buying a roll of 5/16 to cut up for your drops and buying 3/16" x 3/16" x 5/16" tees.
I just run everything on 3/16"

[Jdock]

Next year I'll have all 3/16 stuff currently I have 5/16 spiles and drop lines going into 5 gallon buckets however I have several more trees to tap and some of the ones I have tapped could support another tap. Only thing I haven't seen on Amazon yet is the 5/16 x3/16 x3/16 T fitting

[mike_belben]

Gotcha. 

[mudfarmer]

Hey @Jdock hopefully this link works https://www.rothsugarbush.com/product/516-316-flat-hook-connector/ The words in the link are not what it is, should bring you to "3/16"-3/16"-5/16" Drop Line Health T"

[Jdock]

That's exactly what I need, plus their prices are half what amazon has on the tubing. Thank you. 

[Jdock]

The old tarp shed frame will become the sugar house, just needs a few purlins and some slightly used 2v metal to keep the worst of the elements out. A block fire pit dug back into the bank with a ss evaporator pan will be fed from the ibc tote which will go on the bank behind the garage. The main branch of my line will go up the hill on the other side of the tractor and will have to be run under the flat area directly behind the tractor due to not having enough height from the lower trees to run overhead. It's already ditched because it's a swamp at the moment and I can put the sap line through the drain line, unless there's a good reason not to.

[Jdock]

 
here's where most of my maple trees are, mostly up and to the right<b

[celliott]

Actually guys, the 3/16x5/16 droplines make all the sense in the world.
Research has found that on 3/16 tubing, when the sap stops running, the vacuum stops however there is residual vacuum stored in the tree. So sap is "sucked back" into the taphole. The first year this isn't an issue. In subsequent years however, that means sap is contaminated from the dirty tubing and bacteria gets into the taphole, thus starting the healing process of the taphole. We avoid this with a vacuum pump system by leaving the vacuum on 24/7. On a 3/16 system, the 5/16 dropline is supposed to give enough expansion room so sap doesn't reach the taphole. A check valve spout is also recommended after the first year, and dropline tee and connectors replacement every 3rd year. There is not enough fall or enough liquid column in a single dropline (or tap) to create vacuum in the dropline.
Jdock, if you can, avoid a Y or tee in your tubing line. Break it up into two runs, even if it means 3 trees on one run.
If you have a leak on the 3, it will affect the whole thing. And you won't see increased productivity on the 3 tap line either.

[Jdock]

Since I finally worked out how to post pictures, here's the end result of my first time cooking syrup. This is from 3 trees , made the day after I tapped them. After it settled for a while I poured the syrup off the sand.
 

[DeerMeadowFarm]

A check valve spout is also recommended after the first year,

I've heard a lot of complaints about check valve spouts freezing and/or not operating correctly. Have you experienced this issue?

We run 3/16 tubing and 5/16 drops for the reasons you mentioned as well. We are on our second year of Zap-Bac spouts and other than being more attractive to squirrels than the spouts we previously used to use they seem to be working well.





 

[Chuck White]

Next year I'll have all 3/16 stuff currently I have 5/16 spiles and drop lines going into 5 gallon buckets however I have several more trees to tap and some of the ones I have tapped could support another tap. Only thing I haven't seen on Amazon yet is the 5/16 x3/16 x3/16 T fitting

The setup you have is just fine, no need to go to the bother/expense of getting 3/16"!
I know that 3/16" is touted to "create" vacuum, but so will 5/16, 1/2, and 1" they all will as long as the line is full and the exit end of the line is downhill!
With your 5/16 lines going into 5-gal pails, Vacuum doesn't even figure in! 
Stick with what you have!

[celliott]

We don't use the check valve spouts. We use a thin wall polycarbonate spout that seats very well but also holds in the tree for the long haul. I think they do have some quality control issues with them. Some work, some don't, some come apart etc etc. but without a vacuum pump to run 24/7 that's the best option for 3/16 tubing.

Chuck, you're right, any pipe can create a vacuum however 3/16 tubing does it much much easier than any of the other choices. 20 taps on a line with good drop and you'll see 27" of vacuum (what a high quality pump achieves) naturally! It just doesn't work as well with 5/16, the runs of tubing end up being prohibitively long.
As for the expense, he needs 1 roll of 3/16 tubing and a bag of tees to greatly improve performance over the buckets.

[Chuck White]

Chris, The idea I was getting at was that there is really no "length" the his runs, just from the tap to maybe 4 feet to the pail!

[celliott]

You're right, if he desires not to change anything and stick to buckets, no point in changing the tubing up. Even with 3/16 and a 6' dropline to a bucket, not enough liquid or vertical fall to produce an appreciable amount of vacuum. 
The woods he describes is a textbook example of 3/16 tubing doing it's thing. 
The bigger issue I see, if he does change out to a 3/16 system, his cooking system will be totally overwhelmed by the sap he'll get lol

[maple flats]

5/16 drops into 3/16 laterals also make lots of sense. I have  about 300 of my taps on 3/16, all have 5/16 drops for 1 reason. In 3/16 tubing the air (gases from inside the tree) does not pass the sap, thus as things freeze up, sap is pulled back into the tree. With 5/16 drops, the air (gases) pass the sap, thus pulling less if any sap back into the tree. I also use the CV taps, except in year 1, when all of the tubing is new. I've found that I get the best results from 3/16 tubing if I change all fittings every year in the 3/16. Thus my TEEs (3/16 x 3/16 x 5/16), and any connectors are new every year. Also, I clean my tubing 2x, once shortly after the season, and again in mid fall. I use calcium chloride as my chlorine, it leaves no salts which attract squirrels who then chew on the tubing. My taps are all 5/16 and if my 3/16 joins a mainline, I use a 3/16 x 5/16 hook connector , hook it to the mainline wire (or use a flat plastic chain link strap) and then 5/16 loops to and connects to the saddle.
One question for jdock, how good are your trees, a couple of taps in 2 days yielded 2 qts of syrup. Normally without high vacuum a qt/season/tap is more typical. Also, don't buy tubing nor fittings from Amazon, way over priced. Get them from a maple supplier or from the manufacturer of maple equipment. Places like Bascom maple, Roth's Sugar bush and a bunch others sell the supplies at much lower prices than Amazon. Those selling such supplies on Amazon are buying it from the places I mentioned, then they double or triple or even add more to the price and sell it to you. All of the places I mentioned will sell to you by the each, you don't need to buy by the hundred.

[Jdock]

That first good run yeilded almost 10 gallons from 3 trees, all fairly big sugar maples. As it's cooled down they're not producing nearly as much, the next warm spell is just starting I'll see how they do. I'm up to 10 trees with a pretty much even split of red and sugar maples. I'm still figuring out what to do for a dedicated cooker and what my capacity is given my relatively limited time, but I do intend to run 3/16 line from my existing taps to a central collection point at the bottom of the hill. I have several more big red maples along the same line and I'll just use the buckets for a couple outliers that aren't practical to add to the string.

[mike_belben]

After the season, do you guys pull the spiles, cut them off and wind up the lines or leave them up and cap them or what?  Flush em out and roll up to their various anchors to prevent falling tree damage?  




Im having an issue with mold spores starting in some of my white plastic buckets.  Its definitely got the smell of a fermenting in there and a slight tint.  


What is the best way to clean the buckets and kill the mold without giving the sap a nasty flavor?  A light vinegar solution?

[Stephen1]

Mike, We only use bleach in any of our maple equipment, vinegar is probably okay also. As long as your getting sap, keep going, you boil the mold out. You can even wipe down the inside of the buckets with a water/bleach solution and keep collecting.
I would pull your lines, mark them as to where they came from, fill a container big enough with water and a spoonfull of bleach, then  submerge the lines and taps. leave it for the day and then drain and dry it all , hang it up somewhere you can find it next year. 

[mike_belben]

Thanks.  I did boil that few days old batch, segregated from the fresh clear stuff, just to try it and the taste is fine.  Its a bit darker and more cloudy but i havent got a good syrup filtration method yet.  I do sap through a tee shirt and have got very light, clear results on test runs through a coffee filter but they clog in just a few spoonfulls. 



Wife says shes got some cheese cloth somewhere to try.