Yard trees

[kcpalmer]

Hey Thanks for all the ideas.  We have had a hard time trying to get trees to grow.  I am ready to get some started I have got a flower bed so far.  Now I am ready for some shade trees to look at and to sit under and watch grow.  Thanks  Kim

[Ianab]

Ernie,
I don't know what the law is in your country, but in the US it is not only unwise but illegal to us a herbicide that is inconstant with it's labeling. I say this realizing
that labeling in your country may be entirely different than ours.

Dont worry too much Chet.

In NZ painting stumps with Roundup IS the official treatment for unwanted weeds by local councils and govt departments.
I think the label basically says "do not drink"  ;)

But you are right - take care with chemicals.

Cheers

Ian

[asy]

I also think asy asked a question that may or may not be relevant to my situation.  I don't know.  As many of you know I have a pond full of fish  very close to my front door.  When digging that pond averaging from 6 to 8 foot deep the reddish clay type dirt would turn to bluish colored clay.  (When dried it turns to a dull Grey)  About a foot or so into that blue clay the ground go wetter and wetter.  That's why I had to have a large part of that pond dug primarily with a track hoe.  A dozer would get stuck in there and a backhoe wouldn't do much better.  The area where that pond is several feet below grade of the hilly area I'm talking about.  I'm saying if there is water or moisture below the area I'm afraid it would take years, if ever for a trees roots to make it's way down that low.  This moisture never makes it's way up through the red dirt in the area I'm talking about though it does in the lower parts of my pasture.  I've got some areas that hardly ever dry out, but that's not where I need to plant trees. 

OI!

Everything I say is relevant!!! 

hehe

Seriously though...  To get big trees, they generally like to push that tap root down into the sub-surface soil. They will push that root through clay.

The reason I asked is because sometimes the sub-surface soil is either too far down to dig to, or too un-defineable to find (as in a wide band of moisture rather than a 'stream').

If you can find it, which it seems you can, if you use the auger to loosen that soil it will reduce the tendency for the tree to become shallow rooted.

The problem you may get with shallow rooting is that the tree will grow, and then panic and bolt to flower then die. It's the tree's basic tendancy to breed before it dies. You'll find that your trees are doing well (visually) and have gorgeous flowers or foliage, then BANG, they die. Leaving you wondering why...

I always panic when I plant something and it either flowers too early, or out of season, or far too prolifically for it's age...  I know it's about to cark it. (that's die, in aussie)

asy :D

[redpowerd]

just mix some glyphosate in with your bar oil! :D

[Ernie]

Redpowered

Glyphosate (roundup) is neutralised by contact with dirt,  Does it still work when mixed with oil?

Ernie

[SwampDonkey]

I dunno CK, I think this Swamp Donkey's been bush whacked, shot down, then kicked, and strung up to a boxelder by some kinda forum linch mob.  :-[  :-\

[Bro. Noble]

Donk,

If it makes you feel any better,  I shipped some box elder to 'the Big Guy' via the Whitepe express a couple of years ago.  He used it to make a planter for some weeds :D :D :D

[Larry]

To kill the box elder, have you tried drilling a few 1/2" holes near the bottom of the trunk and pouring in neat roundup, translocates to the roots and should wipe out all the suckers as well unless Monsanto has developed a roundup resistant GE modified box elder :D :D :D :D

Ernie

Ernie,
I don't know what the law is in your country, but in the US it is not only unwise but illegal to us a herbicide that is inconstant with it's labeling. I say this realizing
that labeling in your country may be entirely different than ours.

Chet,
Unless I'm seriously missing something Roundup is labeled for cut stump treatment.  I'm looking at page 49 for 41% Roundup Ultra.  Apply full strength right after cutting the tree.  Also works when ya ring the tree couple of times and apply it to the bottom ring.  Only works during the active growing season.  I was very concerned about it translocating when I first started using it...checked with a forester...he said don't worry...he was right.  Rest of the year we use Toredon.

[redpowerd]

what oil does it say to use for a surfactant?
that would be your bar oil.
we will need info from stinky peterson

[SwampDonkey]

There's a feller here that uses a thinning saw with a glyphosate dispensing gizzmo on the saw head. I can't find a link on the web though and I only saw him demo it at a woodlot field day. It has not been a method excepted by local operations because I think it too high maintenance.

[SwampDonkey]

Red,

I just read a report that mineral oil or deisel have been used in the mix on some test sites in NS, but the concentration of Vision (glyphosate) was 20 - 30 % (gets expensive). With foliar a 2 % concentration was used with water and was almost as effective. That 2 % seems low though. I was thinking at least 5 % is needed according to bulletins issued by Monsanto during the spraying season and if it's a dry season, up to 7 %. Maybe Ernie knows more on that, as I'm not a pesticide applicator.

[chet]

To kill the box elder, have you tried drilling a few 1/2" holes near the bottom of the trunk and pouring in neat roundup, translocates to the roots and should wipe out all the suckers as well unless Monsanto has developed a roundup resistant GE modified box elder :D :D :D :D

Ernie

Ernie,
I don't know what the law is in your country, but in the US it is not only unwise but illegal to us a herbicide that is inconstant with it's labeling. I say this realizing
that labeling in your country may be entirely different than ours.

Chet,
Unless I'm seriously missing something Roundup is labeled for cut stump treatment.  I'm looking at page 49 for 41% Roundup Ultra.  Apply full strength right after cutting the tree.  Also works when ya ring the tree couple of times and apply it to the bottom ring.  Only works during the active growing season.  I was very concerned about it translocating when I first started using it...checked with a forester...he said don't worry...he was right.  Rest of the year we use Toredon.

Larry,
Your are one up on me there. Thats a label I wasn't aware of.  ???  What Tordon product are you using ( RTU ), and what are you using it on?

[redpowerd]

this is funny, was supposed to be getting into certification class today, but had to go with wifey to ultasound her bun in the oven :-\
theres allways next year

[Larry]

Red,
Just straight Round Up...the ultra has surfactant built in.  Not saying that maybe a little diesel might enhance the performance.  Used to use something called WeedOne...did pretty good job but went on the restricted use list and think it is no longer being made??

Chet,
I don't have a license so bout the only thing I know to legally use is Round Up and RTU Toredon.  Doing TSI and mostly killing out the honey and black locust to favor walnut and oak.  I would guess the right of way clearing guys use something more potent and cheaper.  If ya got a suggestion for something better I'm all ears.

[Roxie]

this is funny, was supposed to be getting into certification class today, but had to go with wifey to ultasound her bun in the oven :-\
theres allways next year

That is GREAT!  When is the redpowerd bun expected to be finished baking?   :D

[chet]

Larry,
if you are not certified that really narrows down your list of options. I used to use Tordon RTU for cut stump treatment also, but switched to other products. You have to be very careful using RTU on species such as aspen and poplar that have shared root systems. Treatment of one stump can affect many many trees, some quite a distance away. For that reason I prefer to stay away from it.

[Jeff]

Yep, Noble, we found a good use for beaver kilt Missouri Box elder.

[etat]

I really like Swamp Donkey's idea in preparing the soil.

I really like Asy's idea about auguring down. 


Heck I like and appreciate all the ideas.  I figure the only way I can completely resolve the box-Eder controversy is to plant a couple of them! :D

My ideas submitted for approval.



I'm gonna use a box blade to knock down the first 8 inches or so and finish it up with that little back hoe.  I'm gonna go down in the bottom below my house and scrape off the dirt and grass down to the sand (lots of it down there) and bring back and stir it in with the soil.  About 6 foot around the perimeter of where the trees are gonna be I'm going to take that post hole digger and dig, auger   as deep as I can making a ring around the tree and mix sand with the dirt before filling back up.  I've got a big pile of gravels I haven't ever spread out so I can put some of em in the bottom of the holes where I'm going to plant the trees.  Also I'll add some top soil with the sand and clay to put around the trees.

Before doing this I'll contact the soil conversation to get their ideas and suggestions, there's one close by in New Albany.  My dad worked for them for a little while back in the 50's before he went into the navy. 

I'm in the process of moving dirt around my yard and house and leveling it up.  I hope to be ready to dig the holes and plant the trees in a matter of a few weeks.  I'll take pictures and document the affair.

And Red Powered, tell us more about the bun!  I'm extremely honored that you first mentioned it on this thread!

[chet]

CK,
Don't furgit ta treat dem Box Elders with some of dat Roundup growth hormone when ya plant um. 

[etat]

 :D :D :D :D

Don't worry, I've got 8 gallons of commercial grade Roundup locked up in my shop.  I stocked up on it a few years ago and occasionally spray some of my fence line with it.  (I was afraid it would get to where you couldn't' go buy it without a license).  I've got that and some 2-4-D too though I don't use either one of them very much. 

I do think I understand you're not supposed to fertilize trees for the first year anyways?

[redpowerd]

whats the mode of action with roundup or other glyphosates.??
sure would cut back on all this page flippin ive been doin on these 10 yr old textbooks :D

is it symplastically translocated only when applied foliar?

[chet]

whats the mode of action with roundup or other glyphosates.??
sure would cut back on all this page flippin ive been doin on these 10 yr old textbooks :D

is it symplastically translocated only when applied foliar?

Redpowered,
I think you will find this link very informative. http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/WS/WS-23-W.html

[redpowerd]

it pretty much says it only works in foliar applications. due to no soil activity.
been a while since i heard "source to sink" ;D

thanks for the link, a cleaned up version of some of my books.

[Rockn H]

I agree your county extension office should have some good advice.  Have you considered cotton wood, it grows fast and seems to do well around Cherokee alabama.  I think thats close to you.  Sycamore is another tree that should do well with good site preperation, if you don't mind raking.  Both are also fairly fast growing and have been used alot for hardwood replanting.  Personally, I would have to plant one Tulip, they just look nice to me. ;D

[Furby]

That's a pretty good idea!
If ya have the room CK, plant some fast growing lowgrade trees for shade sooner, and weave some of the better ones in between.
Then when your better trees get a bit bigger, do a little logging. ;)