How to get a Suffolk setter to work right

[uler3161]

Last year I finally upgraded from the single tooth woodmizer setter dad got with his mill back in 1990 to a Suffolk dual tooth setter. I put in many hours behind the old setter, so I have a pretty good idea what I'm doing. Bought the new one thinking it would be much faster and I wanted to have the downset capability. It wasn't clear that downset has to be done separate from upset, so that's two trips around the setter. Not really the end of the world, but was a bit disappointing.

What is bothering me is how finicky this thing is. I just went to saw this morning. Three blades. 1-1/2, 0.045 Silvertips. Cut one or two really bad boards with three blades. Dipping and diving all over the place. Had a fourth blade but didn't even bother. Just packed up and went home.

Put the blades on the woodmizer setter and the set is way out. Really tried to dial in the Suffolk again. Thought I had it. Teeth were setting around 20-22 thou it appeared. Double checked with the woodmizer. All good. 

Moved to the next blade and set it. One side seemed okayish. Other was up to 30 thou and I really doubt it was 30 thou before I started. Adjusted the thumbwheel down a bunch (which, it doesn't seem like the ticks on it are really that close to what they say they are). Finally got that set. 

Put the next blade on, and that same side was down to 10 thou set. So I adjusted it back up again. Did the first few teeth and it seemed fine. Somewhere around 20 thou. Finished the blade. Checked some near the end of the blade and they were up to 25 thou. Not sure if that's going to be the end of the world, but it is past the tolerances we considered acceptable on the woodmizer setter.

Only thing I can think is that the blade height is super sensitive. The little plastic height gauge block isn't ideal and I'm wondering if I just need to be extra careful when using it. But, other than that, what else is there? Blade seems to be clamping fine. I don't think it's deflecting. Sharpening happens before setting. Both sides of the blade are cleaned off with a wire brush on a side head grinder before setting.

On top of the unusable set, all the fiddling and checking with the clamp on gauge is pretty much making it take as long or longer as it does to use the single tooth woodmizer setter. And the poor cuts are really starting to make me look bad to my customer. Any insights? Do people have to fiddle with the settings on this thing every blade they set? And how many teeth do you check on each blade with the clamp on gauge? It seems like you have to check a lot of them to make sure. I guess that's one benefit of the old setter, every tooth gets a reading on the gauge. 

I've read some posts on here where people say they pretty much get the thing dialed in and haven't messed with the settings in years. I just don't see how. It's definitely not working that way for me.

[woodyone.john]

The blade height setting is critical, so doing a bunch of blades at the same height speeds up the process. I personally find it an accurate setter but agree that time needs to be put in to get it right. I no longer try to use the resetting option preferring to use a roller desetter.
Someone else has photos of one here.

[barbender]

I had a bolt or something come lose on mine once and it was giving me the same fits you are experiencing. On normal days, I also find it a bit finicky to set up but once set it is fast and simple. Like Woody said, tooth height is critical. I try to keep my setting to one batch of blades, or it won't be consistent (I'd expect that to be true of any setter). I don't go by Suffolk's setup instructions, either. They tell you to set the top 1/3 of the tooth, I find that you break teeth off because you are trying to bend the hardened part.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Try setting first, then sharpening.  See if your results improve.

[barbender]

I wish I could remember what loosened p on mine, because your issues sound very similar. It may have been something with the indexing pawl, so that it wasn't getting the teeth in the same spot consistently. My Suffolk is an older version that doesn't down set or have the guage. I check my teeth when I am setting up and adjusting the setter, once I get the set where I want I just run them all through. I might check a couple of times as I go through, just to make sure nothing moved. It does a really nice job, very consistent tooth set and smooth cuts.

[uler3161]

I haven't kept my blades batched up well enough unfortunately. Not used to having to do that. 

Did go out yesterday with the ones I tried setting again. Once again, about 3 blades and one cut. Finally got to a blade that I think I might have set on the Suffolk and double checked on the WM. It cut good.

Ordered new blades as a backup plan. That, and going back to the WM setter. 

I think today is going to be a blade sharpening and setting day, so I'll try to be extra cautious with the blade height and see how well that works.

[slider]

I agree with others on band height being important . i have had an older suffolks setter for years and bought a cooks dual tooth setter because it had the dial indicators on the tool. Used it for years then started having problems so i got the suffolks back out ,built  new table and started using the hand indicator and compared the two. The suffolks is more accurate when you take the time to dial it in. 

It my have been the indicators taking a beating on the cooks that was my problem . i will put a new set on and try it again. I like the cooks because it is faster to dial in but for now i will stay with the suffolks.

[barbender]

I would think that any dual tooth setter is going to be sensitive to tooth height. That's not  the machines fault. You're pushing the tooth over at an angle, the taller the tooth is for a given setting, the more set it will end up with. However, your set should still be consistent. I'm telling you, something is loose on your machine, you need to look it over good.

[Percy]

I have the same setter and have had the same problems. That being said, when you figure it out, it works great.

What barbender said is accurate imo. There is a plethora of allen screws on that machine, when tightened slightly, will stop the machine from drifting out of adjustment...took me a couple years to figure that one..Setting tooth height is critical. When its wrong, the set will differ from the left and right teeth. not good. I never ran the "desetting" blocks for years, but when I installed them and fooled around with the amount of setting, the machine became somewhat easier to dial in. I run my blades in batches with a rotation system that keeps all blades in the current batch near identical, tooth height wise. When I do this and take care to set the tooth height correctly, the machine is rarely out more than 1-2 thou from sise to side. Pic shows the desetting blocks I speak of

[uler3161]

I'm still having issues with this setter. I decided to start over with adjusting it. Here's where I'm at...

Started with a blade that has been sharpened before, only because I don't currently have any new blades. The two teeth I started with were close to the correct set. I think one was around 20-21, the other 22-23. I have the tooth height set properly with the gauge block. I ran the upsetting bits in until they touched. Did a few test runs dialing in a little at a time to where I could see just a bit more set being put into the teeth. Got them both set to where I wanted them. Then I ran the downsetting bits (the steel ones) in to where they feel like they are touching. Tightened all the adjustment screws.

Ran maybe 20 teeth or so through. Double checked that tooth height is still correct and it is. Checked a couple teeth with the dial indicator. I think one was like 26 thou and the other was 30!. Don't know if that was from another botched setting job or if something on the mill ran them out of set. Either way, I thought maybe I don't have the downsetting bits out far enough. I've cranked them in quite a bit. Can only achieve 26 thou it seems.

I'm nervous about cranking in the downsetting bits more. I've already broke off one of the bolts that holds one of the bearings in the clamping mechanism and I think that's because I had the downsetting and upsetting bits too close. And I think where I'm currently at, there is too much pressure. It feels like quite a bit.

I've reviewed the suffolk video on youtube that shows setup. I don't see where I'm doing anything wrong.

One thing I am curious about is whether the downsetting and upsetting bits should have the same angle ground into them. The video is showing the plastic downsetting bits and, to be honest, they look almost like the same angle. I can tell you the metal downset bits did not have the same angle as the upsetting ones. Can't really remember the angle on plastic ones. Those got mangled in short order after I got the machine because the tooth chewed them up in no time flat.

[uler3161]

Found my owners manual and I wanted to note a few more things:

1. There are no burrs on the blade. I ran the blade for one or two cuts on the mill, so those should be all gone.

2. The manual says the tool bits are machined with 20 degree angle. If that's both upsetting and downsetting bits, then that might be the problem. The upsetting ones might be 20, but downset were about 10! I believe I've sanded these down once before to get rid of burrs. I'm sure I eyeballed it, but I don't think my eyesight was bad enough to turn a 20 degree angle into a 10 degree.

3. I believe the positive stop bolt is correct. I assume if it were incorrect, it wouldn't be clamping the blade enough, but I believe it is. Or maybe it's possible to go the other way and overclamp? Perhaps that's why I broke the bearing bolt.

I'm going to try adjusting the positive stop bolt just to eliminate that as a potential. Tempted to regrind the downsetting bits since they seem way off.

[barbender]

 I can only offer advice from the vantage point of my old Suffolks, made prior to them having down setting blocks. I find it finicky to make adjustments, as adjusting one side affects the other. However, once I get it set it is very, very consistent so long as the tooth heights are the same.

 I would run some without the down set blocks touching. Like I said, mine doesn't even have them and it works great. If things are breaking, obviously there is a problem.

[uler3161]

I can only offer advice from the vantage point of my old Suffolks, made prior to them having down setting blocks. I find it finicky to make adjustments, as adjusting one side affects the other. However, once I get it set it is very, very consistent so long as the tooth heights are the same.

 I would run some without the down set blocks touching. Like I said, mine doesn't even have them and it works great. If things are breaking, obviously there is a problem.

Must be having server issues. Went to post a reply and got a permission denied error. Trying again..

I may end up running without the downsetting bits. Didn't really want to. It was by far the main reason I bought this particular setter. I don't know of another one that does downset.

I did more testing. Positive stop bolt is now readjusted. I also reground downsetting bits to 20 degrees. And I touched up the upsetting bits to make sure they had a clean face. Found a couple teeth that had a little more set than I'd like. Worked on adjusting the bits to get those to an acceptable set. 22 thou on one, 24 on the other. Set a few more teeth to verify and it's back to setting at 30 thou again.