Logging with a CTL

[Walnut Beast]

We are shut down! Good old emissions!! That's why guys have somebody delete and take all that emissions crap off! Had a DEF related code and now I'm locked out of any throttle 

[beenthere]

WB
Which unit shut down for the DEF code?  

[Walnut Beast]

It's Cummins related with the tank/ header or the sort so I'll have to check with the dealer/service tomorrow. 

[Walnut Beast]

It will drive in high and low range and everything works but just at idle. Was in the middle of winching and got back in and no throttle. Need a little more than idle on heavy winching so pulled the horns in

 

 

[mike_belben]

Thanks alot EPA.  :

[chevytaHOE5674]

The reason I've hunted down decent low hour pre DEF equipment and plan to keep it all running as long as possible.

[OntarioAl]

A farm base site I frequent (Red Colored) tractors.
They are purchasing older non computer controlled and rebuilding them.
That's driving the price of these units up 
Cheers
Al

[mike_belben]

look at the glider truck market.  brand new chassis with 100% remanned old legendary motors.  worth double of what a newfangled plastic electric turd truck goes for.  fitzgerald was one of the biggest makers until the govt went after them.  

the overlords have decided this is what we are gonna have and thats that.  if a loophole is big enough to be noticed they will close it.  and not to save the planet either. thats just a cover story. 

[chevytaHOE5674]

One the biggest issues I see with DEF on equipment both farm and construction is the machines aren't used hard enough all the time. For instance Walnuts CTL probably spends a lot of time at idle while he hooks/unhooks, winches, saws, etc. Or my skid steer or tractor in the winter warming up, lumbering along to feed cows, etc. The emissions systems hate that. You would get better service life from them if you could run them at 90-100% load all the time so they were burning hot and clean.

[Walnut Beast]

Your exactly right. Called service. Jacob said Cummins know they have had all to common problem with the DEF header part and being real hard to get the available part so they have another fix that's another electrical plug that snaps in the place of the other one that tricks the faulty code to be fine on the DEF level. Chevy probably knows about the header part. So I took a picture of serial number on valve cover and Jacob is setting it up with Cummins out his way and everything will be covered for them to drive out to my place 145 miles one way and take care of it.

[YellowHammer]

I realize this is under warranty, but over the years, I have joined the "club" and bought a true 2 way OBD2 Way scanner and communication pad.  It's like the ones mechanics use, it's not cheap, and it paid for itself the first time I used it. It excels at DEF errors, sensor, forced regens, all that stuff.  It will even reprogram the new style car keys.   

I can plug into any engine and vehicles made in the world, as it has 50 or more adapters, and can scan and fix errors using universal software, or for proprietary software that mimics the manufacturer.  It's incredible, and recently I used it to diagnose a faulty NOx sensor in my Chevy.  It would have been an $800 diagnose and repair at the dealer (I called) including a $250 forced regen, as well as the engine having to baseline and "learn" the newly installed sensor.  So I did it for the price of the sensor, and in no time, I was up and running.  

Most likely, with a 2 way scanner, you could simply go into diagnostic mode and set the sensor data line to whatever value you wanted, or worst case, disable it or even null it out.  Anyway, it's nice that the dealer is doing his thing, but when it goes out of warranty, there are tools available now that can do anything the onboard computer and sensors need them to do.  Amazingly useful devices.   

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks for sharing that. I will keep that in mind and check into that!

[chevytaHOE5674]

To "plug in" and start doing most emissions related stuff to most heavy equipment (skid steers, ctl, tractors, loaders, etc) your looking at something like a Texa or Cojali unit that start in the $5000 range and head upwards from there. So unless you got money to burn you won't be buying one to fix one piece of equipment.

Heck I work on heavy equipment for half my living and don't own one. When needed I call another road mechanic over and pay his hourly rate as its cheaper than owning the computer.

As for changing the the sensor value or "nulling it out" that isn't going to happen. One would need to be able to rewrite to the ECM and that isn't done with most if not all scanners. Theres a reason guys pay big money for ECM tunes to delete the emissions systems. Also now a days the EPA has put a big crack down on and sort of computer diesel emissions alterations.

As for DEF header from my understanding they are a problem across the board for Cummins from heavy equipment to medium and heavy duty trucks. The part isn't actually made by Cummins and they are having trouble with supply all over. My dealer has told me that there are plenty out there but are being hoarded by dealers as they would rather sell the part AND the labor to fix it rather than just sell guys the parts.

[YellowHammer]

I don't know, I've never tried it on skid steer, or any heavy equipment, I just got a skid steer and it's running fine, so is my tractor, and I don't have a dozer.  Nor am I a mechanic, but it seems I'm always working on one vehicle or another.  

However, I use it routinely and easily on any diesel truck, or gas vehicle for that matter that comes my way.  As far as price, for years everyone said the "computer" was too expensive (its got almost nothing to do with the computer as they are based on established platforms, its got to do with the software license costs).  Even my Cummins diesel certified professional mechanic nephew said the same thing, but when I showed him what the magic computer would do, he said it had almost, but not quite, but almost, the same capability as the one he has in his dealer shop.  One the side, he flips vehicles for fun and profit, and has me scan them for latent issues that aren't to the problem level where they throw a code. If the engine or vehicle can see the data, then I can see the data.  In some cases I can manipulate the data, depending on what it is.  For example, it will scan diesel fuel injectors and check their balance, (I can adjust that if I want) and indicate how far they are off spec, and color code them based on how close they were to being out of spec.  It's a good way to see how much wear and abuse they have seen.  On my Chevy truck that had an open number 4 glow plug throwing errors, I was able to punch a couple menu items and disable it so I stopped getting error codes until the new one came in and we had time to replace it.  What's even cooler is that I could then run a full dealer diagnostic glow plug check out test, see their continuity and even their individual amp draw, one by one, from the computer, without ever having to turn the truck on.  Very cool.

The unit cost me about a grand, plus subscription, and has true two way command level communications with the vehicle, not basic and simple one way.  So for example, it will flip door locks, test and turn on head lights, break lights, honk the horn and even set engine speed, do whatever I want.  I even did a sound check on a Bose speaker system, all from the little handheld device, and it will do a factory test of an ABS breaking system.  Everything is controlled by the vehicle ECU and everything can be accessed by a computer that can read and communicate with the ECU.  Use a computer to talk to a computer.        

The reality is that almost any unwarranted repair, especially an emissions one, will cost near a grand, so expensive is relative.  I've used it to diagnose and repair Chevy diesel trucks, Ford diesel trucks, gas burner cars, and even a Hyundai gas burner that was throwing an occasional fuel injector problem that my daughter's dealer couldn't find, after two tries.  I hooked it up, she drove around with it for a few days, the injector acted up, the computer caught it, identified the exact fuel injector, saved a file of the data, and helped the dealer trap it on his equipment.  Turns out it was a new to them issue (too much power was being sent to the injector, breaking it down, slowly), and they forwarded it up the chain. It's diagnosed and identified weak and open glow plugs, NOx sensors, O2 sensors, DEF heater tank element failures, DEF level sender problems, DPF and catalytic converter soot loads, been able to do forced regens, on the road regens, and will show me real time exhaust efficiencies and exhaust gas temperatures while I'm driving down the road.  It helps me reset the tire pressure sensors in my Chevy 2500, which my local tire shop couldn't do because they said the computer was "too expensive" and it even helped me diagnose a supposed door lock issue for my brother in about 30 seconds when it showed that one of his hand held remotes had a weak battery.  I have no idea how it did that, but we replaced the battery and problem solved.  It has its own wireless network and can connect through the internet, will scan the error code, identify the sensor fault, and even upload and display the proper section of the repair manual on an Android looking device.  I have a subscription and can upload the newest diagnostic software updates on hundreds of vehicles anytime I need, including Lamborghini, if I ever bought one.  I even scanned my Nephew's fairly new F250 for fun and found a couple of things that weren't throwing codes but could become problems later on.  He was not a happy camper, and took the vehicle back to the dealer, with a snap shot of the data.  

I'm certainly not a mechanic, that's why I bought this unit.  However, I despise being charged for things the computer does, and not the mechanic.  For example, a forced regeneration can take up to 45 minutes and the mechanic has to sit there and watch the vehicle, basically doing nothing, while I get to pay them $250 bucks for baby sitting.  They make it sound like it's a big deal "Oh, then we have to do a forced regeneration" and that's expensive.  Horse pucky.  Hit a half dozen buttons, open the hood, and let it do its thing, while I watch the soot load go down and the exhaust quality go up.  It has saved me, my relatives and friends many thousands of dollars in diagnosing and repair costs, as most times the repair part is not that big expense.  

As I said, it's paid for itself many times over, and I'm not sure it wouldn't fit into my Woodmizer Diesel engine port.  I'll give it a try.  

[Nebraska]

Wouldn't have been shocked if YH and couple of his buddies built their own diagnostic computer system..

[chevytaHOE5674]

Sounds like you have a good scanner. As you said the cost is in the license for the software. So go buy the license, software, module, etc for various non highway vehicles and watch the prices sky rocket. Most if not all off highway equipment uses their own software, own plug ins (not usually an OBDII), etc so you need specific modules to plug into different brands. For instance in some cases JD agricultural equipment uses a different module and plug in than JD construction equipment.

And no matter what two way scanner you have none of them will let you delete or manipulate emissions related sensors. As doing that amounts to "deleting" a diesel. Expecially after the recent EPA crack downs no scanner company would be caught dead selling that kind of tech.

[Walnut Beast]

Had things all set up with the tech at Cummins service to come out tomorrow then the guy asks how far is Omaha from you😡. You need to go through them. I was hot!!!!. Called the dealer to get back to getting something going. So now we are playing games of the closest Cummins service center. He did say look in the DEF tank if it's a black tube. If it is then the whole tank needs replaced. It's not a Cummins one. A aftermarket one they used when they ran out of their own. And obviously have had lots of problems.

[YellowHammer]

That's a shame.  Like pushing rope. How hard is it to change it out if you had the parts?  Can they overnight it to you or something?  Nothing is ever easy.  

     

[Walnut Beast]

Yes it is a shame! The Cummins service center that is closer to me is two weeks out. My mechanic Jacob is going to see if they can get that plug in device. He said between the Kubota and ASV there would be way less problems if it wasn't for that DEF related issue's. So as it stands now wait or haul the machine 150 miles out to the Cummins service center there. We will see about some answers tomorrow and how much extra for them to drive out

[Walnut Beast]

As it stands. Nobody has a Cummins DEF tank. ASV used Shaw DEF tanks when Cummins didn't have their own available. And that's where the problem is. Mine has the Shaw tank with the blue top and needs to be replaced with the Cummins tank. No parts interchange. So the one service center was two weeks that's probably more because I doubt they have the tank. What guys are doing that can't afford to be down mulching is putting a plug in module like this on that tricks the system till they can get it fixed 
 

[barbender]

I'd put one of those on and never look back!

[Walnut Beast]

What a circus! Cummins won't pay a Cummins service center further away to get it done. A one and done service call but  will pay for the one to come multiple times . The guy came out today and hooked the computer up and filled paperwork out then said I will call you when I find out about parts. I said WHAT! You mean you don't have a tank or anything! No. The other Cummins would have had it done. They did three last week. This guy didn't know anything. And this is the Cummins service center out of the big city

[barbender]

About sounds like Cummins needs a letter from your attorney.

[Walnut Beast]

New DEF tank and header in. It took about one hour for them to change out. Everything went pretty smooth but the new Cummins tank is a little narrower so the straps were loose and even know my DEF tank was full they only pay for and put in 2.5 gallons. They put a piece of rubber between tank and straps. So I'm checking with the other Cummins service center to find out what they do

[MC8541SS]

look at the glider truck market.  brand new chassis with 100% remanned old legendary motors.  worth double of what a newfangled plastic electric turd truck goes for.  fitzgerald was one of the biggest makers until the govt went after them.  

the overlords have decided this is what we are gonna have and thats that.  if a loophole is big enough to be noticed they will close it.  and not to save the planet either. thats just a cover story.

I have 2 of the Fitzgerald gliders and 2 pre emission trucks and 1 2016 Kenworth with DEF,  can you guess which truck is the most costly to operate?  Lol.  Not hard to do.  I wish I had bought more Gliders.