Frozen Millers

[Resonator]

Like to start a current topic for those who are in the "glaciated" parts of the world that cut in the cold of winter. I just finished a sawing job for a customer cutting spalted sugar maple and had to fight through frozen logs. I run a manual LT 28 (gas 19HP), and my standard go to, do it all, blade is the WM 10° double hard. I tried some 9° I got from a friend with a LT40, seemed like they helped some to cut better. I've heard "frost notch" bands work, I've heard 4° bands work, I would think carbides would do to, but cost a lot more. Curious what you all have found works best real world experience for sawing frozen logs? (Other than moving to Alabama). ;D

[Jeff]

Wait until they are frozen. Partially frozen logs are about as bad as it gets, even with a 150hp 60" circle saw. Completly frozen, whole new ball game. 

[Greenhighlander]

Fully frozen or not frozen , no in between, is what the older fellas with far more experience then me, have told me. 
Goodluck 

[barbender]

I've sawn down to about -10°F (I wouldn't recommend it🥶) but down to about 0° goes well. Softwoods saw faster and straighter when frozen. I run Turbo 7 (7/39) Silvertips, sometimes in red pine the saw marks are literally microscopic when they are frozen solid.  
 
 I've never tried the Vortex, or other companies frost notch blades. The Turbo 7 saws very well for me, but they do leave some frozen sawdust on the lumber. Usually that's not an issue, but currently I'm sawing some white pine and the customer paid extra to have it stickered and banded. So I'm having to scrape the frozen sawdust off, not cool👎👎

[Magicman]

Maybe move this topic to "Did something dumb today".   ;D  :D  8)

Seriously, you glaciated guys have my admiration. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

Maybe we need a new thread "Did something NUMB today" :D

Ps Wait, this is that new thread, sorry . :

[Magicman]

When it gets below the 40's my get-up-and-go don't wanna go. 

[Andries]

Seriously now, don't ALL all the seriously committed millers and their mills seriously like this?

[Andries]

Nice thread start @Resonator !
It's good to know that not all of us 'completely glaciated folks' have gone into hibernation.
Bur oak Timbers, four degree Double Hardship bands and -40° rated windshield washer fluid. The ww fluid keeps the sawdust from freezing the boards together, mostly, sometimes.
Works pretty good.

[Resonator]

Well here's the situation... I've had a few recent inquiries about doing sawing, and have at least 1 small job for a repeat customer to finish in the next couple weeks. I'd like to keep sawing at least until it gets really cold (well below zero), especially if I have customers calling.
When it gets 22° below, then they call for firewood. Those calls go like: "Hey you got any left!? I need it bad! I got cash!";D

I'm not worried about frozen sawdust on the boards, I run hot water and pine sol as long as I can get away with it. A little warmth and a drywall knife will fix frozen sawdust. ;)

What I'm shooting for is FLAT cuts, I keep a 4' level by the mill and check the cuts as I go. Worst logs I have are 20"+ sugar maple with the watery sap. I tried cutting one right above the pith, and it bogged the engine down and cut waves bad. Same size log in summer, no problem. I've found if I break them down into smaller cants, then the mill cuts much better (flatter). (Maybe the 19HP is more able to overcome the ice then). I read frozen logs will dull the blade much faster too, wondering if you guys have to change out more often it the cold?
One thing I did try was kind of the opposite of full freeze, I had a bonfire going and left some logs next to it for hours, turning them a couple times. It at least thawed the outer bark and sapwood, and got the ice and snow off.

[Resonator]

Maybe move this topic to "Did something dumb today".       

Seriously, you glaciated guys have my admiration. 

I still want to get way down south and see you saw Mr. Mississippi Magic Man before you trade in your rider seat for a rockin' chair. ;D

[Magicman]

before you trade in your rider seat for a rockin' chair

Funny you should mention the seat because...



FedEx just delivered this Brand New Operator's Seat yesterday.  I will install it Tuesday.  

[thecfarm]

I sure am no expert, but sawed hemlock in Feb once. 10° blade did it for me.

[Andries]

Way to go MM, keep pushing back on that rocking chair talk. 👍
Resonator, a 10° band might be too aggressive in frozen maple with a 19 hp motor. Barbender has a Lombardini diesel with turbo 7s and I've got 26hp on 4° bands, in oak. @boonesyard might add to this discussion, with his LT50 experience near Fargo ND. 
.
Given a well aligned mill, a nice flat cut needs a match between blade speed and blade sharp-ness. Frozen wood dulls my bands faster. 

[Resonator]

Looking at the WM site, 4°, 7°, and 10° are all close in price, I may try a couple individual blades and see if it makes a difference. 
Has anyone tried carbides on frozen logs? They cost 3 times as much, but they say it can "withstand the hardest of hardwoods and provide a very smooth finish".

[ladylake]

 Ho do we know when a log is half frozen?  Steve

[chet]

More so than frozen logs, snow and cold, it's the lack of daylight hours this time of year that gits me.   :(  

[Crossroads]

Last week I spent more time moving snow than even trying to get logs to the mill. I have a deck of logs that belong to a customer that have 2' of snow on them. We're set to be cold this week, so I think I'll spend the week setting and grinding 110 blades that got dropped off recently. Hopefully next week it will warm up a few ° and I'll get that deck milled up for the customer, just not sure how they'll get the lumber from the mill site. 

[moodnacreek]

Frozen millers? Sounds like a flour shortage. Anyhow when it gets down below 10 degrees I am a cold sawyer and work in the shop. It has been several years or more since we have had logs frozen solid. Some years only frozen sap for a few weeks. Hard to keep straight saw lines until the sap is sawed off. I hate to admit it but I can't saw frozen hard maple. The problem is frozen sawdust spilling from the gullets because it swirls, hence the frost notch or stand all bit in a circle saw. Logs that are wet farther in [and frozen in the sap wood] can be impossible. You can get an ice pack guiding your saw off line. Maple is this way because it has no heart, the whole tree is sap wood.

[Peter Drouin]

I have been cutting logs from 1987. This year and for now on, I will stop Jan 1 will start up April 1. Way back when it was 10° blades, When WM came out with the 7°. Then the T7° is all uses now. They just have to be sharp.
I sharpen all my blades in house. I'm not going to have 3 or 4 kinds of blades, too much bull for me. smiley_dizzy
T7° 1/1/4 x55 Get 5 to 6 sharpens on them, then [the hard] on the tooth is gone. They work in the summer, but dull fast, Save them for logs or resaw old beams with Iron.

[boonesyard]

If it's above 10 below without much wind, we'll saw. As everyone says, 1/2 frozen logs make a mess. I'd just as soon see it get cold and stay cold (not a tough wish up here) to freeze the logs. T7 blades exclusively,  but we get about 1/2 to 2/3 the blade life on frozen logs. Just tried my 1st box of 1-1/2" T7 045 Silvertips, really like them. They cut very flat, but they don't stay sharp any longer. Us frozen millers deal with some weather not fit for man nor beast, but I wouldn't swap it for the summer heat you southern folks are accustom to. Where there's a will,,, there's a way  .

[barbender]

I'd pick sawing on a 10° day over an 80° day anytime. I can put more clothes on to deal with the cold, put hand warmer packets in my gloves and such to stay warm. There's not much I can do when it gets hot, it's out of my clothing range of adjustment😁

 Snow is a pain to deal with around the mill yard though.

I experience better blade life in frozen softwoods than I do in the summer. 

[Joe Hillmann]

Are you letting your blade guides warm up.  A couple years ago I had a major problem cutting pine in cold weather.  It turned out the problem was warm sawdust hit the cold blade guides and froze to the guides.  The sawdust was building up guides and I got a wavy cut.

The solution was to warm up the guides by running the blade for several minutes before the first cut to spin the guides and warm them up.  I would also often let the blade run between cuts to keep the guides warm.

Once I figured that out the problem of sawing  partially frozen logs went away.

[Andries]

Joe, that's interesting. I haven't run into that problem, and wonder what you were using as blade lube for the pine? Would it have been diesel?
My daily standup routine includes giving each blade guide a single stroke of grease from the grease gun. In the winter I switch to low temp grease. Also, It could be that by using windshield washer fluid, it keeps the blade guide from any buildup by splashing the fluid over both guides. My experience is limited to mostly hardwoods like Elm, Ash and Oak, so may not apply to a high resin type of wood.

[Peter Drouin]

Then their's always the frozen rocks in the log.


 

 

 :D :D See debarked too.