rubber tire harvester

[ehp]

OK, tell me all about a rubber tire harvester , the good and the bad, best harvester head and tree size it can handle . Rubber tire cause we cut alot of small bushes at 25 to 30 acres then drive down the road 1/4 of a mile to the next one . What are these machines worth new as I have no idea , Mill is thinking a john deere and a forwarder 

[ehp]

I'm old and getting older , hate this brutal heat we get here and would like to be inside instead of being outside 

[nativewolf]

Still have handfelling your big trees.  Even the big ponsse bear with h8hd head cannot fell but so large a tree.  Really helps in topping and bucking.  Up to 26" it is super.  Not sure how it works with by law regs there.  12' wide but articulated.  

Are roads paved or gravel?  Putting tracks on is a bit of a chore, tracks might not be so important on your sands.  Still going to want the forwarder bunks tracked.  

[ehp]

Were thinking 9 1/2 feet wide we should get the ok , 12 feet not a chance , The 648 G3 is 10ft 6 inches wide , I drove it in the bush and back out cause it cannot fit between the bigger trees , Cutting pine it would not be a problem cause they cut a whole row out then the off row trees but in big hardwood its a different deal , I am having a hard time on how its going to buck the trees into logs cause first hard to fall big hardwood , next no way that head can pull the tree with top on it to the machine to cut the logs , It's hard enough to move a tree length big oak with a skidder  25 feet without breaking a choker or the cable . I'm trying to learn cause I'm not rich like Barge so spending whatever these are worth and it does not work is going to be very hard on the pocket book 

[Skeans1]

I'm at 10.5' wide in the JD harvester with tracks on.

[chevytaHOE5674]

The Scorpion King and 8W Ergo i run are just over 10.5' wide i believe. Never had an issue getting around in a hardwood thinning.

I'll cut anything up to about 28" in diameter with the machine even veneer trees. Larger diameter than that and I'm selective on what I cut with the harvester. Largest to date is a 36" ash log i believe.

[barbender]

 You can fall some pretty big stuff, much bigger than the head can actually handle. In my limited harvester experience I've cut some big white that the head could open up big enough for, 30"+ dbh I imagine. I just pretend I'm cutting it with a chainsaw😁

 If you cut one down too large for the head to grab, you can cut a "story pole" out of a smaller stem and use it to measure the big stick and buck it.

[chep]

I would find someone else to run the harvester for you ed. You should run forwarder and handcut the good stuff. 
I've mostly been around rottne h20 cutter and it could yard around any tree it could get ahold of. 
I think learning to run a harvester would drive you crazy 🤪 

[ehp]

Im not quite as mentally challenged as I let on  :D, I honestly feel there is not much I cannot run cause I have ran anything I have gotten on , may not be the best at it but I can get the job done . One thing I need to figure out is I'm being told in our wood which is a long ways between trees I should cut 20,000 feet a day so 100,000 feet a week so that on average is going to be 2 different bushes per week. I think that is very do able and it can cut that pretty much in any weather , now is 100,000 feet a week going to be enough to pay for a harvester and forwarder , I feel that going to be real tight on that part cause those machines are so much coin, another thing is not saying I can cut that now but if I'm only cutting Im sure i can cut at least 50,000 feet a week pretty easy by myself and would be bored out of my mind waiting for the skidder to get back . Lots of factors to think about , yes the machine would be far easier on the body but forsure not easy on the pocket book

[ehp]

Now if I had Barge's coin I would just order harvester and forwarder from John deere and Tigercat and see for myself which setup is better but I can honestly say I'm not rich like Barge but I do not think any of us are , maybe if 10 of us put all our coin together we might come up with 5% of Barge wealth and thats a huge maybe

[barbender]

10-4, big maybe on that Ed😂

[barbender]

I would imagine you'd do just fine in a harvester. Personally I think having hand falling experience is a big advantage. You know what the tree wants to do, now you can make it do things. Like I said, I kind of think of the harvester head as a man with a chainsaw on a stick😁 But then you have a powerful crane to give the tree a push, lift it off the stump or whatever you need to, to get it on the ground.

[chep]

You say you have to pull cable to every tree up there. Bylaws or something?
 Can't cut stuff that's in the way. Well with a harvester I think you'll find there is a lot in the way

[Southside]

Given the restrictions you have would a rubber tired hot saw and a forwarder with a grapple saw work? 

Yes you loose the measuring capacity and it's not 100% cab work, likely still need a winch in the mix from what you describe often, but there is probably one less zero in the quote at the end of the day. Just thinking outside of the box. 

[ehp]

It depends honestly on what bush your cutting and where , around home the bush lots are very thick where its hard to see 50 feet or alot less cause of the smaller trees in the way so you would need to cut trees in the way to get to the other trees , that is a Big No No here but in my small mind they are going to have to change the by  laws cause there is none of us hand fallers left and were all old , I guess 60 to 70 years old would be average and no young guys coming up but the mills still need wood , next is like my next small bush , It only has 130 hardwood trees marked but every tree is 30 inches or bigger in diameter . Lots of thinking needs to go on but I got no one to go watch running this setup cause most places do not have this type of timber and how thick the trees are , I'm sure after you uses a harvester I donot think your coming back in 8 years and cut again and cannot mark the trees that are left up cause that hurts grade

[Firewoodjoe]

If it's like you say. Rules and all logs. I'd be doing everything I could to find a young hand cutter/choker setter and you make less money siting in a small Skidder. Over pay him if you have to.  Especially with these markets. 

[Firewoodjoe]

I know if I could have just cut logs I never would have bought one. 

[ehp]

we cut only logs , we have no firewood markets or pulpwood , we do cut pallet grade thou but thats normally just the last upper log sometimes

[Firewoodjoe]

Honestly anything over 20-24" in hardwood is a gamble. Either stem damage residual stand damage or machine damage. Yes it works 99% of the time just fine. Even much larger like othera have said. But there's no guarantee on those big ones. It takes a wide and heavy machine to handle 2-3 foot hardwood. 

[barbender]

 You need more space for mechanical cutting, there's no getting around that. And the more turns and tight spots you have, the more trees get tore up. And that's just with the harvester, it's more challenging to get the forwarder in behind afterwards. It takes foresters marking timber a while to realize how much more room a forwarder needs. When you have a 10' wide machine that gets on a 10°-20° sideslope and the bunks are 10' tall, all of the sudden 14' isn't enough.

 The guys I turned @nativewolf onto are cutting really big hardwood down in north Alabama. I seriously doubt that they have the stringent rules on residual damage and spacing that you do, Ed, but it might be worth checking out.

[stavebuyer]

I would anticipate that the "writers of the rules" would be more inclined to classify the larger trees as "sacred old-growth" well before they would relax the rules to make them in any way easier to harvest. 

[Ken]

Given the forest conditions and bylaws you've described I'm thinking it will be a very tough business plan to make ctl work.  As has been mentioned you have to get close to every big tree before cutting and that often requires cutting many more to get there and have room to get it on the ground.  Good luck in your decision.

[ehp]

I watch videos on youtube of guys doing select cutting down south and I can tell you that here you would be fined hard , If I'm marking my own timber I have to have all trees 22 inches or bigger in that type of tree and it goes up to 28 inches on other types plus have a real high basal left , Like I said before on average for every 10 big trees I get to cut 2 and our timber is not old , It grows so fast cause so close to the warmth  of the big lake the growing season is so long . When I say its thick in the area I am in now once leaf is on its real hard to see 25 feet and every tree is covered in some kind of poison vines so you get needles during the year to fight it 

[nativewolf]

You need more space for mechanical cutting, there's no getting around that. And the more turns and tight spots you have, the more trees get tore up. And that's just with the harvester, it's more challenging to get the forwarder in behind afterwards. It takes foresters marking timber a while to realize how much more room a forwarder needs. When you have a 10' wide machine that gets on a 10°-20° sideslope and the bunks are 10' tall, all of the sudden 14' isn't enough.

The guys I turned @nativewolf onto are cutting really big hardwood down in north Alabama. I seriously doubt that they have the stringent rules on residual damage and spacing that you do, Ed, but it might be worth checking out.

Those guys are slam it on the ground high grade the stand sorts of folks.  They log in a bunch of wet ground as in swamps but they do production work.  Nothing like what Ed needs to see.  They still have to get out and cut big oaks by hand, as do we.  Furthermore, the heads just can't push a big oak.  If you need to move a tree around a save tree just a hair you are still better off with wedges and sometimes a push from a boom.  

I am not sure with the bylaws that you are going to find a machine to do what you want to do.  Oh well.  The positive is hopping up and down off a machine keeps you fit.  Maybe also do some health maint work, diet and drop a bit of weight.  Do some stretching regimes/little light yoga.  Sounds crazy but carrying less weight and being a bit more limber might help- won't hurt the body none either.  

[barbender]

 Yeah Wyatt, I knew Kirk at least isn't going to be a finesse type haha. So your description is not a surprise😊