Franklin q70

Catmechanic75 · May 16, 2023, 10:31:18 AM

Hello there. I'm new here. I have a Franklin q70 series 2000 grapple skidder. I am having trouble with the transmission and can't find any service manuals or any information on it. The transmission is transferring all the transmission fluid into the pump drive gear box mounted directly to the back of the engine. I have pulled the transmission pump and replaced the seal in it 3 times. I put a new pump on but it didn't last 15 minutes. Is there a torque converter in the pump drive gear box? At first I didn't think so. But after looking at it further, I think there is. Because of the driveline coming from the gear box to the transmission. The driveshaft turns until you put machine in gear. So it would have to have some kind of torque convertor I would think. The gear box is being overfilled and the transmission is the only thing that is losing fluid. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

kiko · May 16, 2023, 12:12:20 PM

Technically it is not a gearbox but rather a torque convertor with accessory gear drives. There is a drain hose from the bottom of the torque convertor to the transmission, if this hose is plugged or has a "belly" in the routing it will cause this issue. Also the breather could be clogged not allowing it to drain. Finding am manual would be like finding the holy grail.
Some Franklin's had a scavenge pump for the torque convertor but I don't believe the q series did.

Catmechanic75 · May 16, 2023, 05:03:00 PM

Thank you kiko. That's more information than I have found so far.

Catmechanic75 · May 16, 2023, 05:07:30 PM

Could it possibly be the torque convertor leaking the fluid into the gearbox?

rusticretreater · May 16, 2023, 05:52:34 PM

@Catmechanic75 where are you located? You can put your location in your profile. Folks here are really helpful and you might find you are near someone who can help. Got any pictures?

From what I have read, manuals were printed when these things were sold so they are rare.

I am good at finding things on the internet when others can't, so I will keep looking.

kiko · May 16, 2023, 07:07:57 PM

The gear drives are splashed lubed by the torque/transmission oil. Not a seperate gear box. Franklin used a wet torque so the flywheel is rides in the same oil. If you ever get into engine rear seal issues you must make sure you use a double lip rear main or it will let transmission oil into the engine. Starters must have a seal as well.

Catmechanic75 · May 16, 2023, 07:16:34 PM

@rusticretreater Thank you. I'm in SW Missouri. Just a little south of Joplin. I did add my location to my profile. The only picture I have is just of the side of the machine where it says q70.

Catmechanic75 · May 16, 2023, 08:14:20 PM

Does the torque converter box have a fluid level? How do I check the fluid level? If it has a drain line going to the transmission, how does it get it's fluid? Can I get a hydraulic schematic of how the fluid flows from the transmission to the pump, through the filter and cooler, through the converter box and through the transmission?

rusticretreater · May 16, 2023, 08:20:41 PM

QuoteFrom another Forestry Forum Post:

Baker and sons equipment- in OH. 740-567-3317. When I had a Franklin that's who I used for parts, where always decent on the phone. Every Franklin from what I'm told had a unique serial #, they could pull the build sheet and tell you exactly what you had, model didn't always matter.

The company is still in business, so give it a shot.

Another link with contact info for another company. Link is from 2013.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=70768.0

kiko · May 16, 2023, 08:39:02 PM

You check the fluid level on the transmission dipstick. There is not transmission fluid AND torque convertor fluid . Same fluid. The transmission pump is bolted to one of the gear drive ports. It pulls suction from the bottom of the transmission, there is a suction screen under that flange. The pump then directs the flow to the transmission filter/s and then to the transmission control valve where a portion of the oil is directed to the torque convertor, this low pressure oil is also used a lube oil for the transmission. The higher pressure oil is applied to the clutches through the solonoid control valves on the transmission as well as the park brake solonoid. Park brake is spring applied and pressure released. The drain line from the tc is is just gravity fed back into the transmission, It enters the transmission above the level of the pump suction line. I will have to find some of the old books to tell you exactly where the trans oil is directed through the cooler.

kiko · May 16, 2023, 09:16:40 PM

I don't have any info on the Q series, but in my experience the transmission hydraulic flow is the same as the 170 C7F series. Maybe this will help.

If you machine has a scavenge pump for the torque convertor , which I doubt, that pump will be a small pump pigied to the transmission pump. Line item 11 is the drain hose. Again if that hose is too long and has a belly in it , it will block the gravity tc drain.

quilbilly · May 17, 2023, 09:12:58 AM

Kiki what did you use for fluid in the C7F? If I recall it's not trendy fluid but something else right? Premium universal maybe?

Ditto on baker and sons. Took me a minute to find the right guy but I was able to get a book on a 90's tree farmer, kept it in the cab and the rats got into it😒 Wasn't able to get the right guy on the phone again. Oh what they did was copy the book for us and charge us for copy sheets. They didn't have a spare.

kiko · May 17, 2023, 11:05:48 AM

J20C or T-04 10 weight.

air1514 · May 28, 2023, 03:26:37 PM

Kiko you said that the park brake is spring applied. If the park brake won't apply, would that be a broken spring causing that? My q80 has no park brake of any kind. And is it normal for these machines to roll several feet before the gear catch's in the trans? Makes for a hairy ride sometimes

barbender · May 28, 2023, 05:21:31 PM

Your spring applied brake could be out of adjustment, either from wear or because someone backed it off. That's how Ponsses are anyhow.

quilbilly · May 28, 2023, 08:36:20 PM

I have a tree farmer C7F with the 4 speed powershift. That neutral lock up is immediate and if it isn't something isn't quite right. The previous owner got rid of whatever else the parking brake was.

kiko · May 30, 2023, 11:53:28 AM

Quote from: air1514 on May 28, 2023, 03:26:37 PM
Kiko you said that the park brake is spring applied. If the park brake won't apply, would that be a broken spring causing that? My q80 has no park brake of any kind. And is it normal for these machines to roll several feet before the gear catch's in the trans? Makes for a hairy ride sometimes

I am not very familiar with the Q series and exactly how the park brake is turn on and off. On a 170 or c7f the park brake is engaged when in neutral or the machine is off , it does not have a specific on/off switch. Does your Q have a park brake switch? Also, there should not be a delay for engagement. Likely you are having suction issues to the transmission pump especially if reving the engine makes it catch.

air1514 · June 09, 2023, 11:32:02 AM

It catch's the same if it reved all the way or if it's at an idle. Hitting the brake pedal puts it into neutral then letting off the brake it will engage but like I said, not immediate. It takes at least 2 seconds for it to engage in gear. On real steep hills , sometimes we have to put the blade down to hold the machine, let it go into gear then raise the blade, so that we don't go to far over a hill. Far as I know, parking brake should be on when the machine is off and or the gear shifter is in park. But it doesn't have any park at all. The regular brakes are all or nothing as well. Really hard to use. You either have no brakes or it tries to throw you thru the windshield.

kiko · June 10, 2023, 06:28:22 PM

Sound like you have an issue with a declutch. Which allows you to go into neutral by pressing the brake pedal to give power to the hydraulics without stalling over the convertor. Does it have a declutch switch on the dash? How is the service brake system set up on that q? Does it use a master cylinder or is the brake valve part of the hydraulic system?

air1514 · June 12, 2023, 09:54:43 AM

It does a declutch switch on the dash. When I flip that switch it won't go into neutral when pressing the brake. The brakes are part of the hydraulic system. I assume that the brakes are supposed to work like a John Deere where if the machine dies, the brakes will lock up. When mine stalls, you lose everything. No brakes or hydraulics ......has made for a couple hairy rides. One of these days somebody is gonna get seriously hurt or killed because there won't be anything to stop it until it has way to much speed built up. Or it will hit a tree and turn over. I'd really like to get the park brake issue fixed. But I don't have a clue where to start

kiko · June 12, 2023, 07:37:33 PM

Does the transmission still have a delayed engagement with declutch off? My experience with Franklin skidders is that non were the same even consecutive serial numbers. Also if the brake is hydraulic there should be an accumulator system to allow brake in the event of a stall. Tracing the brake lines would be key to finding the accumulator. The Franklin transmission I have experience with had the service brake on the front side of the transmission and the parking brake on the rear connected to center slip shaft. There were jam nut jack bolts to release the part brake for towing. Look for those. Got any pictures of transmission outputs?