Low sulfer deisel

[logger444]

The new low sulfer fuel (on and off road 15ppm) is good for air quality, but has you noticed how fast it burns?( a hole in your wallet).

[John Woodworth]

I myself use only Hi-sulfer deisel at least thats what it's supposed to be, upon guestioning one of the fuel delivery drivers on the quality of the fuel and that I was loosing power and adding additives on one peticular bad batch was told that the off road deisel was the same low sulfer they market for on road yet with dye, we are being decieved but at least it's still cheaper.
It doesen't have the power or the economy of the old true high sulfer.
Anybody else running into this problem in your area?

[Banjo picker]

The new low sulfer fuel (on and off road 15ppm) is good for air quality, but has you noticed how fast it burns?( a hole in your wallet).

It might also burn something else up, like and injector pump.  Putting additive in to provide a little luberication.  A lot of the good ole boys down here will put transmission fluid in off road machines.  Cant to that to taged veh. the DOT might think you were running off road fuel.  Just a nother Gooberment foul up.  Right up there with putting corn in the gas.  >:(  Well I guess i better shut up before I get sent to the woodshed. ;D Tim

[WH_Conley]

I usually keep some tranny fluid on the back of the truck where it is handy to add.

[shinnlinger]

I have heard that there is alot of metal showing up in oil anylysis of trucks running ulsd.  You MUST use addtives (OR run biodiesel).  I saw a something a year ago where 2% biodiesel was better than whites/howes or whather you for adding back lubricisity.  The sulfur used to provide a cushion, but since they had to take that out (adding expense)  and I think they replace the sufur with Natural gas which also adds expense.  Well at least the air is cleaner so you can breathe eaiser walking after you ruin your rig running more expensive fuel. 

[Polly]

i read somewhere that starting in 2010 all the fuel will be low sulfer farm diesrl included  probly some parts of the country it already is it would be cheaper for the dist to just carry one brand red food coloring would be cheaper then stocking two mixtures you all are right it burns faster ,does not lubricate fuel pump and injectors as well ,cost more ,trans fluid does help ,i use power service also ,sometimes i kind of wonder about e p a  : : ;)

[sprucebunny]

Like Shinnlinger, I read that 2% biodiesel provided almost twice the lubricity of the additive$. Takes a little math to figure out how many gallons of 20% bio you need to get 2% .... And it may affect the gel temp..

Some older engines have O-rings that the new fuel will dry out and they crack and leak.

[SwampDonkey]

I don't think there is choice up here, it's all marketed as ultra-low sulphur (15 parts per million (ppm) or less) from what I've seen advertised and from what I see posted for prices from the Public Utilities Board.

http://www.irvingoil.com/company/refinery.asp

[Banjo picker]

you all are right it burns faster ,does not lubricate fuel pump and injectors as well ,cost more ,trans fluid does help ,i use power service also ,sometimes i kind of wonder about e p a  : : ;)

The other day I noticed the knuckle boom  (Prentice 210 C with JD 6) sound a little different.  I put half a can of the Power Service you mentioned in the tank about half full or a little better.  It hellped almost imediately.  I checked the Perkins thats on the saw mill it said it was made for the low sulpher stuff...we'll see.  Tim

[moonhill]

Another issue I have noticed is it doesn't cut the pitch on my bands, while sawing pine, as well as the old fuel did.  I picked up a 5 gallon can of heating oil, instead, and use that for pitch relief.   This could be my imagination but I don't think so.

Tim   

[Ironwood]

Spruce,

Thanks for the Bio reminder, I have been buying the additive, now I just need to find the local bio pump.

With all this ULSD issue it has just reaffirmed the degree to which there is little advantage to a diesel engine. If you add up all the increased sales price, fuel additives (for older ones), anti gel for all, increased maintainence cost, expensive fuel (more than gas) and the pain of plugging in during cold temps, it seems of little advantage to not own a gasser. I have an old 7.3 Ferd. very dependable and seemingly powerful, but all the older arguements for owning a diesel seem to have fallen away in recent years. I feel like the big oil is just taking advantage to some degree (they always do) of the little diesel market to pinch the consumer. I think years back, you could pay much less for diesel than gas, and sensing that growing market segment they increased the cost of the diesel. I understand for many small stations putting in an extra pump for a low volume product (compared to gas) that they need to charge a little more per gallon to recoup investment, but it makes me feel like a NEW diesel may not be a best choice, especially for local short milage driving.  Some of the folks driving the Chevy Duramax/ Allison combo may not agree (20 MPG) and Dodge I dont know, but if you are Ford guy buying a newish (6.0- 6.4) given the motor issues out there a gasser would be a best choice. Every winter I do some auction trips and hotels rarely have an outlet for a few diesel guys, so when the temps are 10 degrees and the wind is howling I always wonder if the morning will bring another challenge, starting my truck.


         Ironwood

[petefrom bearswamp]

Post opinions please
I have a 2007 Kubota and a 2008 cat 51 on my woodmizer.
Is low sulphur an issue with these engines?
If so, how much percentage tranny fluid should I add.
Also I had a romance with diesel cars, one '79 Olds Cutlass, smaller of the two engines offered with a 5 speed manual tranny  , one 81 VW Rabbit and a 85 Chevy 6.2 pickup in the 80s when diesel was cheaper than gas.
Gave up on buying diesels in '88 when it was no longer cost effective. Did keep the Olds until 93 when I sold it to my brother. this was my favorite car of all time.
Thanks
Pete

[shinnlinger]

Iron,

I agree with you to really price out a new diesel and all its "charms" and compare to a gas job.  Unless you consistently, really put the miles on your truck, I think gas wins, and it really does smell of something fishy.  I currently have a 7.3 powerjoke in my truck and my next truck will probably be a gasser which saddens me.

Pete,

In my opinion, I would find someone who makes biodiesel in your area and mix it 50/50 with dino diesel, maybe knock it down to 20% in the winter with standard antigel addatives.  This is what I have done for the past year or so with good results in all my machines.  You might notice a SLIGHT loss in power, but you will probably save some $ doing this and the exhaust is way better smelling

Now when I say biodiesel, I mean stuff that has been processed with heat and has been washed.  People who simply filter used fyer grease(griesell) give bio a bad name when the unprocessed stuff full of oven cleaner hits their fuel pump.

[Banjo picker]

Post opinions please
I have a 2007 Kubota and a 2008 cat 51 on my woodmizer.
Is low sulphur an issue with these engines?
If so, how much percentage tranny fluid should I add.
Also I had a romance with diesel cars, one '79 Olds Cutlass, smaller of the two engines offered with a 5 speed manual tranny  , one 81 VW Rabbit and a 85 Chevy 6.2 pickup in the 80s when diesel was cheaper than gas.
Gave up on buying diesels in '88 when it was no longer cost effective. Did keep the Olds until 93 when I sold it to my brother. this was my favorite car of all time.
Thanks
Pete

I don't know about the Kubota, and i need to find out bcause I have two of them.  One on a 900 atv and the other on a M7040 tractor.  But on you 51 cat, I believe they are really made by Perkins.  On top of my Perkins there is a label that say for low sulpher diesel fuel.  Check to see if the Cat has the same thing on it.  You are in about the same boat as me, fairly new motor and don't want to mess up a waranty, but I personally don't think the Gooberment thought this thorugh and it may mess up the newer motors as well, just will probably last long enough to get it out of warranty. :(   I think I read somewhere about  "Man dominateing man to his injury"  could be it just might apply to our diesels.   >:(  Tim

[Fla._Deadheader]

Biodiesel can be made VERY easily, right in your kitchen. 2% can be calculated VERY easily  :

[Polly]

i dont want to act like a know it all but do you all know that farm off road diesel and home heating oil are one of the same , kerosene is no 1 grade and home heating and farm diesel is no 2 grade ,some states like ky farmers dont have to pay road tax on farm diesel which results in around 26 cents pr gal  savings , i agree about going back to gas engines a new class 6 truck with a diesel engine put on the roadis around 70,000 dollars ,and a gas engine class   6 would be a lot less :-\ :-\

[stonebroke]

Off road diesel is low sulfur or ultra low sulfur. At least in NY. It is illegal for a dealer to put home heating oil in anything but a heating tank. I wonder where all the sulfur goes when you burn it in a furnace?

[Polly]

 in ky furnace oil and farm tractor oil same thing ;)

[ErikC]

  I don't think there is a difference between dyed diesel and on-road here, besides color. The price is around .40 less per gallon though. The school buses and some state rigs burn it on the road, and some farmers and loggers too I guess, same stuff as far as fuel quality goes.

[Polly]

as for as i know farm diesel is supposed to have a higher sulfur content , i dont know about the cetane  level : :

[John Woodworth]

As to the tranny fluid I put a quart to 20 gallons every third or forth tank, it's wonderful for keeping the carbon off valves and injectors,don't worry about over mixing it'll mix in fine, it's instant relief for carboned up engines. Scale your tank size in relation to the amount you put in.  had a freind tell me once if you put a cup of Marvel Mystry oil with fill up you will never have a problem with injectors, he ran his trucks that way till the day he died.

[CLL]

Have a friend that delivers fuel, he says in Missouri, farm diesel and road diesel are one and the same anymore. He said he was basically told not to say anything about it being the same.

[moonhill]

Here in Maine heating oil is still 50 ppm, on road and off road is 15 ppm.   I asked for heating oil and the company said they couldn't do it, it is only for home use.  They have a special truck and certain days to deliver the off road fuel.

Tim

[OneWithWood]

In most places the only difference between onroad and offroad diesel and home heating oil is the die.  Offroad cost less because there are no road taxes embedded in the price. 

Any diesel engine built from 2007 on is supposedly designed for ULSD.  Older engines will need some type of lubircant additive.  Biodiesel has much higher lubricity and is a good additive for USLD.  A 2% mix will give you the added lubrication and will not have any gelling problems.

There is a worse development now on the market which is causing problems for diesel owners, especially those running biodiesel.  The push for cleaner emissions resulted in all the major diesel engine manufacturers adding a diesel particulate module in the exhaust stream.  This module filters out the particulates and then gets cleaned with a blast of diesel fuel as the injectors fire on the exhaust stroke periodically.  These modules clog rapidly with any use of biodiesel.  Bottom line - diesel engines form 2008 on use more fuel, deliver less power and are not biodiesel friendly.  It remains to be seen if these engines are actually cleaner over time.  the particulate is burned out with the addition of fuel so even if the engine appears to be cleaner after the burn the burn itself pollutes.  Diesel engines burning B100 are cleaner all the time.  Another case of the engine manufacturers attempting to burn a dirty fuel cleaner rather than acknowledging and pushing for the benefits of a cleaner fuel.

[Polly]

     i agree ,with the added cost of the engines 2007 or later and the expense of trying to maintane the exhaust system ,i run only class 6 trucks ,but i am priced compleatly out of the ball game , unless i can buy a class6 truck with a gas engine installed,or buy used penski truck no neewer then 2006 and change the box to fit my spec i guess i will be done my answer right now is to maintane the eqpt i presently have as long as possible  : :