PTO circle mill Good or Bad ?

[WV_hillbilly]

   I was on Sawmill Exchange the other day and saw  some PTO circle mills that would be in my price range.  I want to buy a mill to get started sawing but just can' t get the wife past the sticker shock of some of the band mills.  I have a  Ford 3000 diesel tractor already that I could run it with.  My question is what is the good and bad about these types of mills.   Big production is not a real concern right now . I would like to just get my feet wet and cut some boards for my own use .   :P

[Corley5]

What model PTO mill are you looking at?  Most any circular mill can be run with a PTO.  Grandpa used to run the Corley 5 with his W-6 McD ( same as a Farmall M).

[D._Frederick]

WV.,
The first thing you should know about a circle mill is that they are dangerous, they will throw things at you at over 80mph. If you hit metal in the logs, you are looking at $100 or more. Your Ford tractor is not quite enough power for good sawing. To saw with a circle mill you should have an off-bearer to speed things up and to reduce the danger of the blade catching things and throwing them.
On the plus side, you can get into a mill for a couple K. and if you have enough power, at least 80hp, you should be able to saw  2- 4mbdft a day.

[cluckerplucker]

I have a belsaw m14 that I converted to run off the PTO .I hook up to a 245 MF. You need to have the blade hammered for 540 RPM. and use a shaft with a built in  clutch for equipment safety ,so when the blade gets dull and the blade gets pinched in a big oak log. the tracter pto clutch does not fry.   cecil

[WV_hillbilly]

  Corley                                                                                              I was looking at the Belsaw or Timberking M-14  . I think they are the same machine  just built at  different times.


D Fredrick  

      I have seen some of these mills operating around here for years . But the oldtimers that ran them have been dieing off so no  one to ask Questions . If I remember right they used tractors smaller than mine to run them .


Clucker  

   Most of the ones I seen for sale were already set up with the PTOshaft so I wouldn't have to modify that part or have the blade hammered   correct ? .  The  clutch thing on the PTO shaft is probably like the one  that came with my brushhog .                

[Ron Wenrich]

The only problem I've seen with these mills are that the carriage seems to be pretty small and light.  You can't get a log longer that 12 or 14' throught the mill.  They also run a much smaller blade, which means you will have problems with any larger logs.

I'm seeing some handset mills with power over at the Sawmill Exchange for less than 5K.  There were some even at 3K.

[WV_hillbilly]

  I also noticed that some of the mills  have 2 headblocks or 3  headblocks . What would be the shortest log you could cut on this type of mill  ?  Some of the times I would want to cut  some crotches that are 3 to 5  foot long .

[Fla._Deadheader]

Same way as a band mill, for sawin short stuff.  Lay a couple 2 X's across the bunks and put the crotch on them and then dog it. Can't remember the spacing on my Corley. Seems it was 5' or so. I had 2 headblocks and still sawed 18 foot long. Had to watch and see if the log or cant moved. Had to pick the logs better for long stuff.

  I had a 50 tooth blade and a 4--71 Jimmy. I believe they are 100 HP ??? Didn't run the edger off the Jimmy.

[woodhaven]

For whats its worth.
I wouldn't trade my circle mill for a dozen band mills.
I like the power, speed, sound, hard work, very little repair,
fun, easy to modify, they can do more work than you want to.
Anything can be dangerous if not used with a little common sense.

[Ron Wenrich]

On some of the older mills, you could move the headblocks.  I would lag my front headblock, so it was stationary.  But, you could move the 2nd headblock, if necessary.  Fricks were movable like that.

You could also just put a piece of steel in as a sleeper block.  It would be the same height as your headblocks.  I've seen that on longer mills.

You could also add another headblock.  I would prefer to see you use at least 2 dogs on anything you saw.

Those old handmills also had great tapers.  I had an old Ireland that you could set as much taper as you needed.  It worked similar to today's linear positioners, but was mechanical in nature.

[dail_h]

    One of my older neighbors had a Sears Belsaw,and I used to pull it with my JD B. Couldn't saw fast or big ,but could saw

[KiwiJake]

Good on ya woodhaven, I've heard some nasty stories of bands breakin off and shootin out. At least a circle blade will stay on until you want it off. Riving knives, guards, correct protective gear and sawing correctly leads to a safe circle mill.

[WV_hillbilly]

 What about the   blades themselves are there  any types or stlyes to stay away from ?  

[Don P]

I'm still running the IKS blade that came on my Timberking M14 so can't help you there. My dogs are about 3' apart, I saw branches and little stuff into 4' bunk wood all the time. The carraige and setworks are too light...well the whole saw is, but it works for my uses. My pto shaft came with shear bolts, I've busted several. I've seen old Fricks go for less than I paid but was afraid of buying used for my first saw...I wouldn't hesitate with the support group that's available now. My taper is a shim set behind the log. Max board width is 17", max log dia is about 28".


I found this pic I posted some previous winter day. Feel free to come pull the handle if you're in the mood to try one.

[N.Dodge]

My nieghbor has a M-14 that he bought new before i was born.  We have cut a lot of lumber with it with no problems.  He runs it with a MF that has 52 HP at the PTO.  When I decided to buy one of my own I wanted to see if my tractor -a JD with 36 PTO HP- would run it.  It did alright- but i decieded it would be too rough on it.  I opted to buy one with a power unit.  I ended up buying a M-14 with an Industrial 6 cyl. Chevy motor.  It sat in my barn for a year before I "loaned" it to a friend.  He set it up nicely and cutting every weekend.  I only paid $2,200.00 for it.  Im about ready for it back.  At least till I buy a WM.

[Ron Wenrich]

Saw blades come in different patterns.  For hardwoods, we use mainly the B and F patterns.  These are stamped on the shank (ring holders).  

Softwood saws are mainly the 2 1/2 and 3 pattern.  I've never run a number pattern.  

Ones to stay away from are Disston shanks, like #33 or #66.  Impossible to get teeth.  Another one I would shy away from is the ABC pattern.  Just stick with the ones most popular.

Another thing is the number of teeth.  I'm running a 54", B pattern with 46 teeth.  I've run these with 42 teeth with good results.  The F pattern will have more teeth, but less gullet capacity.

If power is a problem, you can just run every other tooth.  I've never tried it, but heard it works good.

You can get into smaller saws, down to about 44".  But you will have some serious problems with the size of log you can handle.  My 54" will clear 21" of cut.

I've run Simond, IKS, Payne, and Hoe.  Most any saw will work, as long as you can get replacement teeth.

[D._Frederick]

WV,
The old timers sawed with anything they could gets there hands on if you could call it sawing. The No. 2 American mill my folk had they bought second hand and it came with an All-Work tractor. The main saw had 20 teeth and the tractor was about 45-50 hp range. Sawing fir logs, there was enough power that the carriage did not  need to be stopped to allow the engine to regain speed. Years later, I tried a Farmall M on it, you could saw, but it was no fun. I bought a Case LAE that was fitted with high compression pistons which gave it about 70-75 hp, which was a great improvement in sawing. The thing is that you can't have a 50 inch saw with 52 teeth in it and power it with a JD- B, it will bog the saw speed down and you will then have to wait for the engine to regain speed. You saw about 3 inches then wait.

The re-placement cost for an insert tooth blade is more than the value of some of the mills that are for sale. If they are pitted and rusted bad, I would pass on that mill. If you find a mill that you are interested in get a tooth and take a picture of it and let one of the guys tell you if teeth are available.

[Don P]

I'm running on every other tooth, switched soon after we talked about it a year or so ago. Been working pretty good. My blade is a 46", no drive pins, smooth collars, but its never slipped. I think its about $1200 to replace my blade. I'm running either my to35 or a Ford 600 both are too small, the 600 is not too bad if everything is set up right. Harder hardwoods give me trouble, I've pretty much quit fooling with locust though I like the wood inside. When I have to do what D Frederick was talking about I often get into heat problems and then things slow waaaay down.

[WV_hillbilly]

 The pic of the teeth is what I will have to do . cause if I try to pick one on my own it will be the hardest ones to replace. Just my luck .  ;D     I 'm just kicken ideas around I want to saw my own wood,   If i keep  waiting I 'll never   own one. I thought maybe this route woud let me start and then work into something bigger and better.                                                                                  The main problem I have getting wood for my projects is that I usually can't get  .  Most of my lumber for plaques could come from what the loggers leave in the woods or  by the landings. Around here there is alot of logging going on usually and people have let me go get some of the crotches  and short logs that were left after the loggers left. I also have 16 acres of standing timber of my own  plan on cuting a few occasionally.  It is a shame for some of those pieces to rot away or end up as firewood.


  I think my Ford  has about 45 hp  . But I wouldn't pass on one that is powered seperately either  if the price was right.

[Frickman]

WV Hillbilly,

An inexpensive pto powered circle mill is a good way to get started if that is all you can get, but any of the conventional circle mills are going to be very dangerous to use sawing the logs you want to cut. Short logs, especially ones from the fork of a tree, are very scary to saw. It is very easy for the log to slide off the headblocks, or to "twist" into or out of the saw. The way our mill is setup the second and third headblocks are 30" apart, so technically I can saw down to about 34". However, that is shorter than the diameter of the saw, and if it moves a little, watch out. When long logs move it is bad, but not like small ones. We don't saw shorter than 5' for this reason.

If I was to buy a mill for the logs you want to saw, I'd get a bandmill. I don't own one yet, but have been around them and feel they do an excellent job on difficult to saw logs.

[Ron Wenrich]

That's a pretty good point, Frickman.  I don't saw short logs, and I never have.  With 2 headblocks, that should minimze the rolling.

There are a couple of manual bandmills over on Ebay.  If you're looking to cut crotches, this may be a good alternative.  Prices are about the same as a used circle mill.

There's even a used Belsaw.

[Frickman]

Ron,

I learned that from personal experience. Years ago grandpa and I were sawing some odd logs laying around the yard into mine blocking. Our old mill had no wall on the ends of the mill at either end of the track. Well, he puts a four foot log into the saw, but the saw didn't like it and spit it out. It threw the log completely out of the mill, and it landed about sixty feet away. Fortunately no one got hurt, and we sawed the rest of the day. That log sure did make a nice fire that evening.

[WV_hillbilly]

  Frickman  

   From what has been said here maybe I should be looking at a chainsaw mill to do the slabs I want and let Dugsaws or Mtn Jack handle the straight stuff . I haven't had much experience  around a circle mill other than watching as a youngn .  I didn' t know  that short logs were a  problem on a circle mill .  

[mitch]

WV_hillbilly,

You might be able to purchase an older circle mill and add a PTO drive. I was fortunate to buy a pre WWII Vance mill for $450.00 and sawed with a long flat belt for over twenty years. Recently I converted it to a vee belt drive powered from the PTO of a farm tractor ( G or 730 JD) with the tractor on the sawdust side of the mill. Some general images are at this URL

 http://shagbarkfarms.com

The vee belt drive: 3 C belts # 162, Sheaves 16" mandrel, 15" PTO shaft



The PTO shaft with slip clutch




Good luck.

[UNCLEBUCK]

DonP , could you show a close up picture of how you ground off the old teeth that you used to place in every other . Was wanting to try this on a 50inch 50 tooth because it bogs my tractor down in big stuff and I just dont know how much to grind off a old set of teeth, I guess if I did this every other tooth idea would it then be 1/2 the horsepower required , I have hydraulic carriage so feed rate wouldnt bother me . I like your idea and want to try it ! thanks :P

[Don P]

UncleBuck,
Well, I squeezed out 5 more gallons of chink today by 3:30 and was about tired of paying work so came home and put on a pot of coffee, threw on the deer stew that the ladies left me and was catching up on the forum when I saw your post. (This thread seemed sadly lacking in food  ;D). I grabbed the camera and went down to the mill to get the pics before the light failed. Clicked and the DanG thing beeped and said disc error, same disc I used yesterday, go figure. I'll try tomorrow if I'm there in the light.
 
What I did was take some worn out teeth and ground them on the bench grinder taking the sides down flush with the body of the tooth (removing the flare) and then sharpened them till I was about as short as they could go without nicking into the body. I just made it up, don't have a clue if thats right. I was figuring this would make it a low raker instead of a cutter. I still hit them with the file now and again. We were talking yesterday and next time I change teeth I'll swap the rakers to where the cutters were but keep the shanks in their original location.

I don't think it halves the HP requirement but it does help. The same thing holds true in a tablesaw. I've seen guys with power problems go get a blade with more teeth thinking that would help. Burying fewer teeth in the cut and slowing down helps, not more.

Your hydraulic feed sounds nice, is it a hydraulic motor with adjustable flow control driving the cable drum?

On sawing shorts, remember we were discussing that some mills also had shingle making attachments...real short. The key is safe dogging in my mind. I've sawn a fair amount of 4' stuff making crate boards or just slabs on the way to a 4x4 or 6x6. At that size if it says firewood I don't put it on the mill. I've never thrown a small log but sure don't want to encourage anyone into something unsafe. Usually if something doesn't feel right its not, time to walk away till you figure it out.

A few years ago I dropped an old cherry yard tree for my Brother in law with his boys in attendance. It was by their tree house and they wanted the stump left tall for a play table. It yielded short logs, I sawed it up anyway and it had some nice wood. I wrote his name on the ends and put it up in the barn to dry. The boys will get some furniture out of it when they're a little older.

[UNCLEBUCK]

Don P thanks for tryin for the tooth picture , I just put the check in the mail for a brand new Simonds 48 inch 36 tooth ,style B, 6/7 gauge sawblade hammered for 475 r.p.m. so my 100 horse pto drive will not snort so hard anymore . I been saving forever for it so today I finally did it !  I thought I could really save by going every other tooth but I finally just gave in . My hydraulic carriage is just as you described and I just hook into the tractor hydraulic and then go through a flow control first then to the spool that operates the carriage . I almost ordered a Payne saw but the old saw shop here in central minnesota is a Simonds Dealer so I went that route, $1,680 with teeth and shanks ready to go, now I wait 3 weeks to go pick it up , I dont know why I had a hard time buying a new blade but I think I did the right thing, thanks again for your time and would still love to see how you ground the teeth every other .

[shopteacher]

Hey WV Hillbilly,
    Just a headsup on a mill now listed on ebay. Foley Belsaw
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2584295357&category=57124

[Ianab]

I don't think it halves the HP requirement but it does help. The same thing holds true in a tablesaw. I've seen guys with power problems go get a blade with more teeth thinking that would help. Burying fewer teeth in the cut and slowing down helps, not more.

Taking that to it's logical conclusion you could run a pretty big blade with very little power if it's only got a few teeth :P
With my old Peterson blades there are only 4 teeth, but it's only got 8 hp pushing it, so the HP per tooth is still good. I believe the new ones are 8 teeth?, but have 18 or 24 hp. By having fewer teeth each one can still remove decent sized chips and be working efficiently, all be it at a slower feed rate. With more teeth and less power you just end up scraping out dust instead of decent chips. :-/ not very efficient.
But of course 50 teeth with 100 hp is gonna be 10 times faster than my little toy :

Ian

[UNCLEBUCK]

lanab , that is a solid answer and thanks . I dont know what the big deal is for me about finally ordering my first new saw blade , I have wasted money through my younger days on a junky car or something but at age 39 I am actually nervous waiting for the saw shop to call me when it arrives .Maybe I should buy a box of cigars that say "its a boy" and pass them out to everyone in the saw shop when I get there ! :D Just excited I guess , first time for everything they say !  I think it was a good lesson maybe to start out learning how to saw on a old disston blade and having to not worry about money . Santa got me a heavy duty "bounty hunter" metal detector for Christmas so I am set for life now ! :

[Don P]

This is the teeth, duh I should have just pulled a couple last nite. Actually I just pulled the ground down one and grabbed a fresh one from the box. The short tooth was a blue tip I think. The fresh one is a standall. After Ian's post I might try running even fewer in real dense wood  ???.

That hydraulic feed gets better sounding all the time, what size hydraulic motor are you using?

[UNCLEBUCK]

thanks Don P , I held up a tooth from my old 48 inch disston and your ground off tooth looks better  :D  , it sure seems like a good idea to try out this every other just to make things work . I will take a picture tomorrow for sure of how I got the hydraulic motor mounted and write down all the numbers of it off the little I.D. tag thats on it so I can be exact . It was real easy to make the switch to hydraulic and I just took off all the old drive belts and left all the pulleys hangin so someday it could always be switched back to belt in a matter of minutes. thanks for the pic of the ground off tooth

[UNCLEBUCK]

Getting back to WV_Hillbilly"s question about p.t.o. circle mills good or bad I will say that the old mill I got now had the long flat belt coming off the tractor pulley and it scared me to death but I didnt know what I was doing even back 20 years ago , the switch to p.t.o. drive was great and also the switch to hydraulic carriage was great , so with the help of this forum in less than one year I am happy as can be with a p.t.o circle mill , but I can only saw about 18 foot long logs but the wet oak boards at 18 feet is about more than one man can stack , I love bandmills too if I had one but they seem to be very handy , this mill cost 500$ with 2 blades and ready to go to work but I added about 3,500$ to it replacing wood to steel beam track and other parts of the husk . check the auctions and get the whole package so youre ready to rock and roll.

[Ron Wenrich]

When you get that new saw, you might want to try it with all its teeth.  If your teeth are real short, they won' t stay sharp as long.  Sharp teeth don't take as much power to run as dull teeth.

[UNCLEBUCK]

 small hydraulic motor , says Nicholas Grey / Parker Hannifin corp. Grey,ME.    050-1-FP-05    B8     963      lGR    ,  thats what the tag says , bought it in www.grainger.com  many years ago but cant find it there today ! Big gear is off a Minneapolis Moline junked out cornpicker ,                                                                            

[Corley5]

That's pretty slick 8).  Sure does away with a bunch of belts.  I

[UNCLEBUCK]

O.K. RON , I never tried the every tooth thing but to save money a few days ago I was going to grind a bunch of old teeth and do it and was suprised to hear Don P was actually doing it , 50inch 50 tooth 2-1/2 style is what was making the tractor bogg down because it was the only blade I had for white oak  and from what I know now I guess 2-1/2 style is for softwood so 48inch 36 tooth B style should be fun , I even get a new speed wrench , glad all my pics made it through !

[Don P]

Thanks for the pics and description UncleBuck. I had been thinking about jackshafts and pulleys, that setup is much simpler and infinitely variable, waaaay better. If I drive the pump on electric it should give the tractor a few HP back too  8) 8).

[UNCLEBUCK]

speaking of power loss , the 3rd picture shows the flow control valve and it is set on wide open ,if I turn it counter clockwise to slow the carriage speed way down I can hear the tractor start to grunt so I just leave it wide open and then doesnt put a load on the tractor, I must have it plumbed wrong somehow because after a few hours of sawing that flow control valve gets hot so it must not be returning back to the tractor like its suppose to , I also have one hydraulic lever in the tractor pulled back and bungee cord on it ,  if I lay my hand on a hose and dont move the carriage lever and turn the flow control counterclockwise I can feel the hoses get stiff and then the tractor really starts blowin smoke so I turn back clockwise to about half and then everything is fine , I know I must have one little thing plumbed wrong ???

[Ron Wenrich]

We converted our first handmill over to a hydraulic feed.  Its been a long time and we had someone with some hydraulic learning put it in.

If memory serves me, we run our pump off of the saw arbor.  Our power was a Cummings 6 cyl diesel, so it had more power than your tractor.

We run our feed with a larger motor than what you have pictured, and with heavier chain.  But, if your's works fine, I can't argue with it.

I don't remember any flow control.  We use them on motors that run all the time or on cylinders where we want to control speed.  

We also had excess capacity, so we ran a sawdust drag and the edger with hydraulic.  

[D._Frederick]

Unclebuck,
Yes, your flow control valve is the wrong kind, you should have one with 3 ports. The third one would go back to your your tractor hydraulic reservoir/transmmision.

[Paul_H]

Uncle Buck,
I've never seen an older circle mill up close,so I have a question.Were the flat belts that you replaced with hydraulics,used only for the carriage?Is the shaft and drums in the bottom of the last picture used anymore?

[Carl_B]

Uncle Buck dose you control valve have a plug in the upper right hand corner. then what brand of control valve are you using. I can post a picture of the way they are hooked up on the ones that we are using if you would be like.Carl B.

[Carl_B]

Just a drawing of the lines on the hdy. contrl valves that we ues. Carl B.




The cf  is the control flow The ef or ex is the exhaust flow and the in is the inlet port.

[UNCLEBUCK]

Thank you Carl_B , yes it does have a plug in right corner like you say , its a Prince brand from northern hyrdraulics, I must have lost the little diagram that must have been somewhere in the box . Your diagram makes sense cant wait to make the changes .  Paul_H, here is pictures of the big drive pulley where the big long belt would run behind the boardman and back to the tractor pulley and I flipped the big long belt to make the blade turn the proper direction so it looked like a big figure 8 from the side view , and then the little pulleys you see all ran the carriage , one belt for forward and one for reverse but always they seemed to grab and make the carriage kind of jumpy , but I did not like the big long drive belt touching the boardmans back pocket so I made the switch. thanks Ron and D._Frederick for the input , the more the better.                                                                                    

[UNCLEBUCK]

 I guess I dont know if I would have ever come this far without the forestry forum for answers and wow I had a whole bunch of questions , here is a picture of me this fall and there would be no room for me and then that long flat belt running behind me , wish I could find a picture of the way it was set up 20 years ago,  but as you can all see  that I have that long deep foggy look on my face like hey is it lunch yet ! :D

[UNCLEBUCK]

OOPS forgot to upload , here is the grand champion winner of the 2004 forestry forum pig eatin contest "UNCLEBUCK"                                                                    

[Paul_H]

Thanks UB that helps.I hope the re-plumb on the valves, works out better for you.
And you're right on about the great help here on the forum.I learned near everything about the old planer from the members here.The oldtimer that owned it before me was impressed with the help&information I was given from members all over North America.

[Corley5]

Uncle Buck,
  What brand is your mill?  Looks pretty  8)  What make/model of tractor are you running it with?  You've probably mentioned it and I missed it  ;D

[UNCLEBUCK]

Corley5, its a Fahrquhar Mill , the cheap red car paint from napa store , tractor is a souped up 806 farmall ! would like to take the old 671 out of the bottom of my old crane but I think I better stop while I am ahead, besides I am getting tired of tinkering on this and now I am gonna let my forestry forum learning sink in ! My dad and I watched a movie of your mill this last spring , everything looked perfect on it and it really got me turned on to finish this pile !  I sure like the picture of DonP"s sawmill shed and I have it as a screensaver for awhile ,it looks like a movie set from the waltons or something , really a beautiful picture,wouldnt mind seeing more of that saw shed.Wish I had a big planer like Paul_H too but am happy to get this far , well I am going to change some hoses on the hydraulics tomorrow but darn glad I asked, I just knew I wasnt quite right on my plumbing job!

[D._Frederick]

Uncle,

If you got your flow control valve from Northern, it may not have a third outlet port. There are two types of valves, some are made for a open system and the other for closed systems. Better get the model number off of it and find out what valve you have.

[Carl_B]

Uncle Buck The 806 that you are running your mill with I think is using the open system. The digram that I drew up was for the closed system. You may need to do some more checking to see if this will work.  Carl B.

[UNCLEBUCK]

ok I took some close up pics today so maybe everyone can have a peek and see , I cant match this prince flow control valve from northern with the one shown in my graingers book so D._Frederick I might need your help again and Carl_B,                                                                                        

[D._Frederick]

Uncle.-,

I think that you have the correct flow valve, it has the E.F port that needs to run to your tractor hydraulic tank.  I have seen the valve for the closed system and it does not have the E.F port. Put the hose on it and it won't load your tractor hydraulic system. On your tractor, when you operate the hydraulics, it goes to full pressure and the excess oil goes thru the pressure relief valve. This takes engine power and will heat the oil.

[UNCLEBUCK]

Thanks D._  !   I just got too many things going on to know everything so this will be great . No more questions from me for awhile but I guess I finally got all the little bugs worked out now and was waiting to ask this hydraulic question when the opportunity was right . Thanks Carl , Ron , Paul, Corley & everyone !  8)

[smwwoody]

UB

I have the same valve on my feed works.  just run a hose from that ef port and "T" it into rhe return from your valve body to you tractor.

Woody

[Carl_B]

Uncle Buck Do what smwwoody says should work good for you Carl B.

[UNCLEBUCK]

smwwoody this is a good day and I will do all the above , one less thing to think about when sawing, drove me nuts feeling the hose and valve get warm after I been sawing awhile , probably good I was my own boardman otherwise I may have had a hydraulic meltdown !  

[Plowboy]

Uncle Buck, did you get the changes made to your hyd.  Did everything work out.  Thanks

[UNCLEBUCK]

hi plowboy , thanks for askin !  yeah I changed the hydraulics right away while I had it fresh in my mind but have not tried it yet because my sister has layed claim to my tractor feeding her beef cows everyday. I cant wait to try it out and report back . I am waiting for my first new sawblade to arrive soon and then I can go to the saw shop in rice, mn. and pick it up. a nice 2 hour drive , been fixing up a old barn and putting in a clutch on my old r john deere and now I have visions of a small solar kiln. What have you got going on for projects?

[mitch]

UncleBuck,

Bring your JD  R down to North Carolina after you rebuild the clutch and we will see how it compares to my old G when pulling the mill with a long flat belt. Does your clutch sling any oil to get on the flat belt?



Mitch

[UNCLEBUCK]

hi mitch, that is neat how you mounted the pulley on the sawdust side like that , when I had the R powering the mill I was on the other side where the boardman works and did not like it . I guess I have been backwards from the start ! my clutch does not sling oil but I just replaced the pulley and clutch drive from a salvage yard and then got 2 new linings from john deere , I put it all back together and forgot to pack the roller bearing on the pulley, I thought it ran in a oil bath but thankful that my i&t shop service manual just came in the mail so I have to slip it apart and pack that one bearing. It sure is simple how john deere let the farmer replace his own clutch like that , everything is right out in the open, too bad it isnt that way now. I sold most of my big tillage tools and I am going back to the old way where I could plow all day on 5 dollars of fuel . Bigger definately wasnt better for me and I am going to be proud sittin on the old john deere this time instead of being embarrased like when I was a young guy. I hope you keep showing updates you have done on your mill, its a balmy minus 17 this morning , wish I was in north carolina  :D

[Plowboy]

Hey UB, not much going on here.  Today it wasn't to cold out so dad and I unloaded our solar kiln.  We have been wanting to install a skylite paneling on the inside of the roof to give another layer of solar collecting area.  So when the kiln was empty we intsalled the second layer and reloaded the kiln with some cherry and black oak.

I used to have an old John Deere, an unstyled AR.  It was a neat little tractor.  It was in really bad mechanical shape when I got it.  I bought with the understanding that it ran.  When I got it the tractor hadn't ran in a long time.  The clutch and pulley was loose on the crankshaft.  I ended up rebuilding the whole engine and some of the transmisson.  The pto shaft was all twisted up, some of the drive gears under the first reduction cover were bent, and the shifting forks had broke and somewhat welded back together.  I took them out and did a better job welding them.  I sold the tractor this past summer and bought my Woodmizer.  I never got around to finishing the fenders and the hood. I don't have the paintance to do body work and painting.  I did learn a few things, John Deere built a very tough and durable tractor with the two cylinders, and one that was easy to work on also.  If I had a lot of money to throw around I would restore another one, but it would be a row crop tractor.  Here's picture of my AR before I sold it.  

[Clarence]

Hi, I'm new here so I hope I'm doing this right. I live in Arkansas, and have owned a Belsaw model 14 sawmill since I bought it new in early 1981. I haven't used it in a lot of years now, but I did use it hard for the first 10 years or so. Logged some with a team of mules when I started. I eventually set it up on a metal base instead of wood, and I can cut up to 22' long as I made the base long enough to do that. I've managed to cut up some pretty big logs on it, and did a lot of 3X12's, etc. that were 16 to 20 feet long for a condo builder for a while. I've done some 8X10 21' beams for a barn, too. I've used several power sources over the years. I used a model A John Deere to begin with, then went with a 4 cylinder flat-head motor for a good while till it quit. All belt driven. Then I changed to the PTO system, using different tractors such as a Deutz and model 60 John Deere. I have a model 65 Massey I'd like to try on it now just for fun. I set up an electric hay elevator chain to pull out the sawdust from under the blade as I saw cutting. The mill is on a hill, and the sawdust is shoved down off the side of the hill.The slope of the hill also helps with rolling big logs down the ramp (made with crossties) to the carriage.

I think I need my blade rehammered - where would I get that done? Anyone know? And where's the best place to get the insert teeth? It's been too long. ;D

I also knew an older man back in the early 80's who was using a Belsaw that had the flat belt drive on the carriage moving system so it was an old one. He used a 3-cylinder International to power it. He cut a lot of logs on that thing over the years. He's why I bought mine, and where I learned most of what I know about running them. He kept sawing until he couldn't do it anymore.

I had a guy show up just yesterday wanting to know if I would sell my mill to him. I haven't got the foggiest idea what to ask for it. I know what I paid for it, though.  ;D

I'm looking forward to hearing from "ya'll".

Clarence

[J_T]

Know a man got a m14 been sawing tyes over 10 years,wore out tthe carrage wheels more once still going. Had disscion on bits not long ago someone better me can point you thare. Here some get things from Piper's -800-845-6075or I would call TimberKing they still have some parts an are nice folks 8)

[mitch]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Clarence.
I too started sawing back in the mid seventies with a 1941 A John Deere. Switched over to a W JD power unit (engine from a D JD). Now I saw with a G or 730 JD diesel. Some images are at url
http://shagbarkfarms.com

For saws, bits and shanks I have had excellent service from B. H. Payne
 http://www.paynesaws.com/

For some general circular saw info
http://shagbarkfarms.com/Sawmill/!saws_info.html

Mitch

[UNCLEBUCK]

Welcome Clarence, I took a peek at your website and thought it was great ! Hope you post a new topic and show everyone your sawmill stuff too ok . Plowboy youre far better than I will ever be at fixing john deeres , thats nice stuff you did to that tractor . Check out Clarences website if you get a chance .

[Buzz-sawyer]

Unclebuck
Your hydraulic control station looks just like mine....I have the same feed set up too.........