thoughts on a used mill capable of cutting alot of 20+"diameter hickory.w/knots

[chickasawtimber]

I had a tornado wipe out more hardwood than I like to think about, because it was about all we owned, E5 storm, 200 mph winds, eye thru our place, destroyed 33+acres of oak and hickory, ash, pine, I mean destroyed. Can't get any salvage loggers interested in taking it for free....
I did manage to salvage log about 4-5 acres of some fine 225 yr old oak, ash, and alot of hickory...we cut on a WMLT40superhydraulic, with kubota diesel...did great..some logs 36" in diameter.  But buddy has gone with my money...yuck yuck, and left me alot of lumber..

NOW the question, I have 50+tons of hickory logs, skidded up into two area of our land, bunked up, waiting to be used..I do not think due to the knots in the hickory , and due to the poor local mkt for hickory where I am..(NE MISS) that it merits cutting for much of anything...
My idea is save the boards I can and chip the rest for smoking chips....
I need advice on the smallest saw I can trust to the task at hand, prepping these logs to go into a 12 in, diesel chipper...for smoking chips, have looked at various chippers, used, various saws used, all pricey for me....reckon a smaller saw would cut the hickory or do I need to get something like a TK1600 or TK B20, WMLT40?

I really can't afford a bundle though I could use the bigger saw, wonder if a small WM15 would do the work or would I burn out engine(s)...I am unfamiliar w/ Hudson, and others on the small size...have considered used Logmaster LM1, WMLT15, and the smallest TK whatever it is....keep in mind I need to section the logs in 6-8 ft sections, mainly ,so the chipper will do all the work I am asking of it....
also the smaller cooksaw, my favorite perhaps.

severely underfunded but not broken in spirit, I am making lemonaid outta that tornado one way or another , just could use advice...thanks

[Okrafarmer]

Just a thought. If all you are going to do is chip the hickory anyhow (and by your description, that may be the best course of action), maybe you would be better off seeing if someone with a whole-tree chipper or a tub-grinder could come to your house and chip them for you. It should cost considerably less than buying a sawmill, and if you have a market for those chips, it will save you a lot of time, and you will be able to sell the chips for money. However, I would make sure you had the market first.  ;)

Or, rather than having them bring the chipper / grinder to you, maybe you could haul the logs to them. Whichever is cheaper in the long-run.

Or if you just wish to buy a sawmill, then buy a sawmill. Hickory is a very difficult wood to mill, though. You're going to dull a lot of blades. Ideally, I would suggest a swing-blade mill for 20" or greater hickory, since you would spend a lot less time sharpening or replacing blades. But the swing mills tend to cost more than band mills.

LT-40, Timberking B20, or some of the other high quality mid-capacity band mills should be able to do the job. Make sure you have a plenty powerful engine, and don't skimp on blade quality.

Welcome to the Forum! 

[chickasawtimber]

thanks OKRA FARMER, I have plans to farm alot of that when this tornado mess is cleaned up..always said I was going to be a pickled okra king...that is a success at okra pickling not getting pickled and growing okra!

Thanks for advice on tubgrinder, and treegrinders...it is a thought...I do have another 46 acres of woodland and alot of interest in sawing, (really no interest in the chipping, other than to do something useful with the hickory...I think I can market it..some irons in the fire, details to work out...)...I really do not want to saw it w/ chainsaw, split it and sell it to BBQ joints in Memphis or B'Ham....no thanks...
We found it sawed easier than we expected with his WM40SH, but when hit knots the wood started warping all directions immediately as opposed to later for straight cuts...but the ripping wasn't too bad next to the old growth oak....very surprised....any other thoughts on what the heck to do w/ it mightily appreciated...no market nearby that wants it, (that I have found....the handle and flooring companies have gone overseas), local mills will pay 10-15 a ton..but not to me, I will heat with it first, for a long time....must price the big grinders doing it for me...one way or the other...and compare...I was hoping to pay for the saw and chipper with the chips....that would be enough money for me to do it....and then I would have them both to use on the other property and the next tornado....I now live in the new tornado alley...

[valley]

Welcome to the forum. I am in watervalley we had some tornado damage around here as well ,what part of state are you in ? I have a b-20 don't plan on selling it but I have cut several oaks around 24" I probably cut as much oak as I do pine but haven't messed with much hickory. Sounds like we may be neighbors

[Ianab]

You are not going to burn out a smaller mill as such, it's a little 4 stoke industrial engine, it hums away making it's 18hp. If you try and push it too hard, band speed slows down and the cut goes wavy etc. You soon learn not to do that.

So all the smaller engine means is that you can't cut as fast, especially on larger and harder wood.

Then because the mill is all manual, you are loading and turning the logs manually, slower and more work than a hydraulic mill.

So you can cut those logs with a small mill, but it's going to be much slower than a mill with more power and automated log handling.

Ian

[chickasawtimber]

thanks for posts to Ianab and Valley...we are about an hour from you Valley....Hickory is beautiful if you can get good straight sections, used to be a Memphis Flooring plant south of us that bought it all, now it goes to crossties for almost nothing, these were shaggy barks over 225 yrs old, virgens you might say, and they were anywhere from 18 to 28" diameter, same age, depended on where it was in forest. We cut alot, just have alot w/ knots too...Ianab, understand on the smaller manual mills, just worried about gas engines in industrial applications..guess I can't afford to be....and 10/4 on the extra work (labor cost). I reckon its just a matter of taking care of whatever I can afford and using it like its supposed to be used...thanks for advice....and Valley, may look you up one day....

[bandmiller2]

Chickatimber,seems to me time till the logs rot is your big problem.With a small slow manual mill you'll loose alot before you mill it.A faster hydraulic mill could be bought on time and sold after the logs are cut,there is a good market for name brand mills.Of course if you don't have a use for or a market for the lumber it will rot as boards insted of logs. Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Oh welcome good to have you on board sorry if I came across with so much gloom and doom.Is there a good market for firewood in your area,that may be the best bailout.Often storm damaged trees are twisted causing internal damage and cracks,you will have to try a few or have someone cut them to know that. Frank C.

[Okrafarmer]

Internal cracks are great for firewood. When you cut and split it, it should dry out quicker.

Too bad you can't slap those logs on a barge and send them up the Mississippi to the north-- I'm sure in the upper regions there is a great market for hickory firewood. I would think as cold as it gets in Minnesota, there'd be people who'd pay good money for some good hot-burning wood. I know where I grew up in Maine, firewood logging was a huge business, and there were some loggers who concentrated on firewood only.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, chickasawtimber.   

I hear your pain about the tornado damage and can not offer any advice.  I do know that sawing them would not be an option for me. 

A tornado traveled through my largest timber trac a couple of months before Hurricane Katrina struck.  Thankfully the timber had been sold and the timber company took the loss.  I walked through that mess last month.  I planted trees and then there are the volunteer trees, but I see no chance for any real recovery for another 25 - 30 years.   

[Okrafarmer]

Magic, didn't the company log it off for pulpwood after the tornado hit? You would think they would want to salvage it.

[WDH]

If you chip the hickory green (in log form), the chips will not dry in a pile.  They will actually absorb water if not covered.  They would have to be spread out in a layer to dry, or you could cut boards, dry them, then chip.

There is not market for knotty hickory around here, even with woodworkers.  Hickory is very hard on woodworking equipment.

[Magicman]

Magic, didn't the company log it off for pulpwood after the tornado hit? You would think they would want to salvage it.

They did a salvage logging job, but it was just that....a salvage job.  The loss was tremendous.

[shelbycharger400]

Id know I wouldnt have a problem marketing knotty hickory. Cabinet grade!
Lumber shorts ect. Flooring ect.  Saw er up, let them air dry, back edge and such.
Knotty hickory is very nice in a kitchen.

[chickasawtimber]

To Bandmiller2..not to worry about being glum sounding, I left Mississippi a very short time before the tornado, had rotater cuff surgery(third one), here in NC where my Mom lives, and my surgeon resides( I don't suggest having a personal surgeon!) 2 days before tornado, luckily we were not there at the time, no cousins, no one hurt, so we were much luckier than some. I had plenty of time to think glum thoughts while  my surgeons would not let me go back until October of last year, knowing I would more than likely damage my surgery. SO thanks for welcome and advice...logs are bunked up fairly well now, I am sure I will lose some. But? I feel that the interior moisture will be dry enough to maintain chip integrity,(I could be wrong, these tress have been down now for 20 months...yes there was moisture still in the logs when we did the salvage cutting/milling but I have a plan....and no it doesn't involve a hair dryer!  But I am with you on the rot, also for the bigger hydraulic mill..I didn't admit the fact I have about 10% use of right arm...might make the manual mills painful...it works , somewhat if I can attach a hand to something and get my back into it....I have no trouble chainsawing, except painful....for example...
I read a good bit on the sight last night I know I have some very willing people to draw on for help, and that is great! A super collection of knowledge here...of all sorts.  Thanks Shelby..where are you located? How much you want? hehe
WDH thank you too...
and Magicman I can't even fathom going thru tornado and then Katrina..some folks still do not understand the damage that Hurricane did....Wow, great timing to have sold to the logging company, and they are insured I imagine..whereas the small woodlot owner usually isn't...and the farm bill...well I better not start on that subject it is Sunday..Trees are about the best , most planet healthy crop we can grow, I'll leave it there...and this, in one part of 2008 FB Trees classified(in an private non industrial forest), as a crop, but not for disaster mitigation.

As for salvage the mills stopped taking wood in NE Miss by May,June a few short months after the tornado.....and then they rejected alot when it started back up....how is a tree destined for pulp, or biofuel, other than the actual logging part, made unfit for the product? Mystery I do not understand. Most of the waste in our area went to landfill, huge fires, is still laying in a fashion that renders the land useless, after two seasons of growing up brush. We never had Kudzu till the tornado blew it in...I dread fighting that.

Thanks to all for input, and welcomes, It seems the bigger mill , for various reasons is the way to go...and I am looking at chippers with 85 to 110 diesel engines and 12 inch opening, I hope to get the hickory to 5 inch -6 inch slabs or posts, not too long so chipper gets a break too, as well as labor. Very important not to kill the laborers.

I appreciate all comments and will so as they appear.....even if I do not thank everyone individually....a great sight I should have joined a long time ago, amazing how much knowledge is at the fingertips, I am not a huge computer user except for email, may change. Again thanks.

[Okrafarmer]

You're going to love this site, and you're going to make a lot of good friends on here. There seems to be quite a concentration of Forum members in Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana, so some of these friends you can go and visit fairly easily.

There's a lot to learn here, and a lot of fun!  8)

[NWP]

I would much rather cut it and split it to market to restaurants.  Sounds like a lot of trouble to go to milling just to chip it IMO.  Odds are it will mold in piles before you can get it dried and sold in chips.

[Okrafarmer]

I would much rather cut it and split it to market to restaurants.  Sounds like a lot of trouble to go to milling just to chip it IMO.  Odds are it will mold in piles before you can get it dried and sold in chips.

Me too. Then you could take the proceeds and buy a sawmill, if you still wanted one.  ;)

[shelbycharger400]

< minnesota here, a bit too far for transport.

[GAB]

Concerning chips: Here in the Burlington VT area we have a wood chip fueled power plant.  One summer the wood chip pile caught fire.  Since I am not the most knowledgeable on wood chip piles I am not qualified to make any suggestions, but I think that should be a consideration.
Concerning small mills: I was told (by an LT15 owner) that small mills need to be on a cement slab or something solid as the bed has a tendency to move and that this can cause weird shaped boards that are not saleable except for firewood.  Again I have not personally experienced this, but it is one reason I/we purchased a frame machine
(W-M LT40HDD34).
Concerning sawing hickory: I have sawed a few Bitternut Hickory logs, and can vouch for them being hard on blades.  Using the debarker I got 3 passes with a freshly sharpened blade on a 16' log.  Once the bark is gone they saw pretty good.  It is as if the bark is loaded with silica.
Hope that helps
Gerald

[shelbycharger400]

bark on any tree likes to hold dirt and sand blown around in the air

The Eastern red cedar around here, log looks clean, pull the bark off and watch the sand fall out of it.

[SPIKER]

FIRST thing you need to do is determine if you can get a market, dont CHIP it up and find no one wants it.   get some contracts to sell chips prior to investing much time otherwise you may end up just dumping the chips into hole or leveling it into the land and will cost you lots of $$$   

Shag bark usually dont age well most are hollow after 60 years or so around here.   I have a good bit on my place but figure most are half hollow too.   If they are knotty paneling and kitchen cabinets are best $ out of them.    Smoking chips good but got to have the market otherwise firewood better.

MM

[Jasperfield]

I don't have a solution for your situation, but here's something that could generate a small (very small) amount of cash.

People who make Appalachian (and other) styles of post and rung chairs are constantly looking for sources of hickory bark to make seats for their chairs. Hickory bark has three layers, and on the smaller diameter trees (9" to 16") they cut the bark into one inch log length strips with a utility knife and it peels right off the log. It's then rolled up and the bark separated into its three distinct layers.

I've never bought any, just used my own, but do know it's very expensive to buy.

[Okrafarmer]

That probably depends on the species of hickory, as the bark is very different from species to species. The inner bark may be the same, I don't know.

[chickasawtimber]

Hello All, thanks again for valuable input....Okrafarmer, I agree the site has alot of friendly folks, I appreciate that not being real experienced in this....seems like great folk and I hope I get the opportunity to get to know some and visit in the midsouth, I spend time in NC as well, though I want to shift my primary time to the "farm"  or the "destruction site"...I can say for sure you can now see every single star in the sky, with no trees...but squirrrel hunting will be might poor.

Spiker, I have some inroads into that, I will not go off half cocked and invest a ton on anything less than a contractual obligation...although I do admit the entrepreneur in me sees opportunity here, think of the value...if a bag of chips at the grocery is $3.89 or $2,99..a wholesale price of even a buck a pound ( I think it works) on 50 tons, well its a might smart of money. The bbq places I have heard anecdotaly, need to confirm , will pay $250/cord for split hickory cut to their specs for their pits...alot of crosscutting and splitting....but it may happen, or I may turn it into firewood, store it dry and use it in an outdoor woodburning heater for a greenhouse, my country place, two things,not like I can't get more when I run out , cheap..loggers would let me buy tractor trailer loads, on the odd occasion for not too much.

So, I have to do the homework on the market, really seriously, and compare.....instinctively I am going w/ the chips....use of some wood, sale of some wood, bark as recommended by Jasperfield, I have seen many a hickory bark blackberry collecting basket...just never made or used one, there are two ways to go about the world, in production gear, and in a slower production mode not wasting the as we said in fish business, "trash fish" or the pieces that a site like this could help me rea;lize what I do have..I appreciate all advice....I didn't find rotten hickories in the middle, just solid..but by now? 
Thanks to all for keeping the ideas flowing, look forward to more conversations.