Firing up an old circle mill.

Dave Shepard · October 24, 2014, 06:37:21 PM

I've been working on getting an old handset mill going. It's an International UD-16. It's been sitting for over ten years. It's hooked to a Lane husk with a Chase carriage. I don't have good photos, but these were already loaded to the Forum. I should have the engine running tomorrow unless there is a serious ailment from sitting so long. Other than greasing everything, what do I need to know about starting the mill itself? It's got a hydraulic drum drive. It's all handset and manual dogs. I don't know if there is anybody there that really knows anything about running the mill. I think they just pulled boards when they were younger, and everyone that actually ran the mill is gone. My grandfather sold them the mill in 1970. It must have been a trade-in on a new Forestall.

whiskers · October 24, 2014, 08:11:14 PM

You might disengage the clutch and give it a few turns by hand just to see if there's a painter fallen into the husk from that step ladder.

Dave Shepard · October 24, 2014, 08:15:22 PM

:D :D :D

bandmiller2 · October 24, 2014, 08:39:53 PM

Dave, other than dried shrunk belts check the foundation for weak or rotted support. It looks like it was dry under a good roof, those old mills are almost eternal. Do you know why they quit using it.?? Frank C.

Dave Shepard · October 24, 2014, 08:50:45 PM

The last generation to run it passed in '04. Current generations have some nostalgia for the mill, but aren't going to learn to run it. Not sure of it's fate at the moment, but it will get saved by someone, maybe me. Buildings are failing, and the equipment is being sold to good homes. Working on a deal for a Chase shingle mill for a friend of mine at the moment. The big four sided planer and UD-14A have gone to a good home in CT.

Ron Wenrich · October 25, 2014, 07:51:00 AM

I'm not clear on your intentions. Are you going to move the mill and use it somewhere else? Or are you going to use it in place?

If you're just going to start using it, the belts are the obvious places that you'll have failure. The grease in the main bearings may be all dried out. You can over grease them, and that causes problems. It won't be much of a problem to try it out, but if you're going to use it, you might want to flush out the bearings and put in new grease.

Looks to be in decent shape.

Dave Shepard · October 25, 2014, 08:29:17 AM

First goal is to get the engine running. Then possibly start the saw. I plan on flushing bearings before starting the saw. Not sure if the mill will get used to any extent or not. There are a couple of different thoughts at the moment. I do know that at some point the mill will be sold and moved from the building.

Dave Shepard · October 25, 2014, 12:00:00 PM

I got the engine running today. Someone had some of the wires on the gas side messed up. Ran it on gas for a minute and switched it right over to diesel on all six cylinders. 8) I started to spin the saw up to speed, but a mouse residence under the dash of the engine caught fire, so I had to stop to evict him. I have to go back and clean that up and tape or replace wires.

http://youtu.be/k3tc4Yx8_CA

Autocar · October 25, 2014, 12:13:18 PM

I have put two circle mills togather and ran them over the years so if you have any pacific questions P.M. me. alot of times I forget where I have made post on the forum must be old age :D. I always enjoy getting them to saw the first board but after that it's all hard work have fun Bill

FarmingSawyer · October 25, 2014, 06:52:04 PM

I just looked over a Lane mill in a shed run by a Cat engine...... The owners want to get it going again and have someone do some sawing. There is a great uncle around still who said they used to mill 100MBF a year with it. But was disgusted when they put the Cat on it and moved it into the shed..... He might be a bit biased about getting it going again.

Everything looks in good shape, but it would be a huge labor to get it going after all the years of neglect. I did mess around with the setworks and they were well oiled when in use because everything was free and moved easy. The wheel even looked in decent shape and there was a spare blade on the wall.....it looked to have been sharpened just before the mill was abandoned. It looked like it was set up to mill 16ft, but I bet with a hole in the end of the shed a 20ft could be run....but it would take doing without hydraulic setworks. It would all depend on how good the wooden underpinnings of the mill are......

Dave Shepard · October 31, 2014, 06:57:47 PM

I went back to the mill a couple of days ago to sort out the mouse nest. Apparently the wire from the hot side of the starter to the ammeter had rotted away. When I revved the engine, it must have shorted to the block through the mouse tinder causing a huge shower of sparks and flames. I cleaned everything up and put the dash back together and started the engine. It started on gas with only about two revolutions, and switched to diesel immediately after a brief warmup. I engaged the saw and brought it up to speed and let it run for about ten minutes to put a load on the engine. I still don't have enough hydraulics to move the carriage. It will slowly move the stop and load feature on the log deck, but that's it. There is enough fluid in the tank to cover the suction pipe on the bottom of the tank, and the valve there is open. I guess that's my next hurdle.

I don't know what rpms the blade should be turning, but I'm guessing that it is about 500, maybe a little more. I'll have to measure the sheaves, but it looks like a 3:1 reduction from the engine to the arbor, and I think the engine is around 1,500 rpms. I have a tach that I can use on the end of the arbor shaft to see what it really is. I did notice that the blade wobbled a little when running up to speed. If you looked closely at the rim, you could see that it wasn't running true. To try and explain it better, if you tried to saw that way, you would get a kerf about 1.5 to 2 times as wide as the blade. Is that an rpm issue?

Ron Wenrich · November 01, 2014, 07:48:35 PM

It is probably an RPM matter. 550 is more the norm on the older mills. 500 seems a little slow. All the diesel's I have run have had a stop at the RPM it was supposed to run.

Your hydraulics could be in the pumps, a relief valve that is stuck open, or belts that are slipping. It'll be interesting to see what you run into as you progress.

loggah · November 01, 2014, 07:50:17 PM

Lots of times the blade will wobble just a bit with no load on the saw because you are turning the saw a bit faster then it is hammered for,but then as soon as you start sawing the saw will slow down just a bit and saw true. i have noticed this with my Belsaw on the tractor PTO. i think 1500 RPM would a be about max.on the UD 16, i know the UD 18 max is about 1350 rpm,there neat old engines. Don

Dave Shepard · November 01, 2014, 08:31:44 PM

All of the rpms are just guesses. I'll have to go over to the IH forum to see what they said the rated rpms are for that engine. I'll have to take the tachometer with me when I go back, although without knowing what it's hammered for, I guess I'm still guessing. I had the engine at full throttle when it was oscillating. I didn't try slowing it down, but I can next time. The pump is run off of a flat belt right in front of the operator. It is well tensioned, and I don't think it is slipping. A sticking relief valve seems possible, it's been sitting for at least 12 years. I'm going to see if there is anybody around there that did more than just tail the mill when it was running, but I don't think there is.

Dave Shepard · November 01, 2014, 08:41:23 PM

This is the only other pic I have of the mill loaded to the Forum. The hydraulic pump is just to the right of the main arched frame of the husk. Sort of above, and a little to the left of the third rung on the ladder. I'll take a bunch of pics the next time I'm down there. There are a bunch of blades and a tool room full of related stuff. The blades aren't huge, but they have about as many teeth on them as you could possibly get on there. I guess they had enough power for them all.

Dave Shepard · November 03, 2014, 03:24:57 PM

Went back with the tach today. Full speed on the engine is 1,800, which is the highest setting from the factory, and the blade was turning about 700. I slowed the engine until the blade was a little under 600, and the flutter went away. I'll have to actually saw with it, I guess, to know exactly where it wants to be, then set the max throttle on the engine so the blade doesn't get run too fast. I don't know what that does for the power output of the engine. I think it is rated at 100 hp, but I don't know at what rpm that is. 550 at the arbor should be about 1,400 at the engine.

loggah · November 03, 2014, 05:29:15 PM

Dave,I didn't think those old engines turned up that high!! ;D

Dave Shepard · November 03, 2014, 05:38:01 PM

I didn't either, but over at the IH forum the suggested range was 1,100 to 1,800. I knew it was spinning pretty fast, but was surprised to see 1,800. It was also suggested that the high speed UD-16 was a lightweight 100 HP replacement for the UD-18.

bandmiller2 · November 04, 2014, 07:03:48 AM

Dave, if you know the name of the owner that operated the mill most sawsmiths keep a record and would know the hammered speed, there are not that many smiths in our area. Frank C.

nk14zp · February 22, 2015, 02:02:12 PM

Quote from: FarmingSawyer on October 25, 2014, 06:52:04 PM
I just looked over a Lane mill in a shed run by a Cat engine...... The owners want to get it going again and have someone do some sawing. There is a great uncle around still who said they used to mill 100MBF a year with it. But was disgusted when they put the Cat on it and moved it into the shed..... He might be a bit biased about getting it going again.

Everything looks in good shape, but it would be a huge labor to get it going after all the years of neglect. I did mess around with the setworks and they were well oiled when in use because everything was free and moved easy. The wheel even looked in decent shape and there was a spare blade on the wall.....it looked to have been sharpened just before the mill was abandoned. It looked like it was set up to mill 16ft, but I bet with a hole in the end of the shed a 20ft could be run....but it would take doing without hydraulic setworks. It would all depend on how good the wooden underpinnings of the mill are......

What part of Maine is the mill in?