Sharpening chipped bits

[Ventryjr]

I have a set of carbide dominator bits in my 52" saw that have probably seen 2k bdft. And I hit a good size nail in red pine log. (Most likely from me as a kid) it took a small chip out of probably 8-10 bits.  All of them chipped in the corner.  I kept sawing the rest of the day and it cut fine but was noticeably rougher finish. I went around the saw with a jockey grinder and gave each bit 6-8 short bumps.  They seemed sharper with my finger nail but I didn't not grind past the chipped portions. It cut worse after where it seemed to wobble slightly in the cut.  

This is the first set of buts I've ever put on since I bought the mill. And the 3rd time using a jockey grinder.   What do I do? Replace the whole set of bits? Grind them all down equally until past the damage? Replace the chipped bits with good used ones? I changed the last set after brushing a dog but have a dozen or so that seemed undamaged.  Thanks in advance.  

[moodnacreek]

Well you can't swedge carbide so the chipped bits should be replaced. I suppose you could spread them around. Also might put steel bits in there place. If you going to saw iffy logs don't buy carbide. You could try chrome as it will swedge out like steel. What style are you running?

[Don P]

I'd put in the undamaged ones from before and try to get everyone to about the same length.

[Ventryjr]

Bf 8/9 9/32 dominator.  Does sharpening past the chipped part work? I'm getting ready to order some bits. Only having 2 changes of carbide left.  Does it make sense to switch to a chrome or steel bit? I don't want to waste money but I don't mind spending it if it makes life easier. 95% of my logs are deep woods soft wood that I don't worry about nails. This just happened to be a nice red pine we dropped in a area I used to build forts as kid.  I guess that's a life lesson for nailing into trees. 

[moodnacreek]

I'd put in the undamaged ones from before and try to get everyone to about the same length.

In my experience it takes too much diamond grinding to get the long ones back to meet the shorts. [carbide shops have a way to do this] Any how, over time and wrecks and saving the good bits you will be able to find some the right length or close enough to replace some chipped ones. I really don't like carbide because they are stand all bodies. This style takes more power, also costs more. And I use frost shanks and must use regular style bits. Currently using tungsweld bits but they are hard to find. When those are gone it's back to chrome. The saw I got with the new mill has regular shanks so I may put carbide in it as I have 8 boxes of Pipers. Even though I don't like these carbide they sure do save time getting ready to saw.

[mudfarmer]

Do you use the frost bits all year? What do you think of the one piece like SawClaw? The carbides seem nice but I am not paying for them and don't have experience with anything else but a bandsaw

Ventry the guy I work with does not sharpen out the chipped carbides, they get replaced. we just changed out a set last week because he hit 18 nails (6x3).....

[moodnacreek]

Mud Farmer, those are frost shanks and they are used all year with regular bits. They save on the cost of stand alls and give a little more power.  Some say the saw itself lasts longer if stand alls are not used as they tend to pound the sockets. On the other hand stand alls protect the shanks from wear.  Carbide bits are made with stand all bits because there is more meat to work with.

[sealark37]

Considering that the saw tended to wander in the kerf after sharpening, could it be that the sharpening job was uneven, or somehow not up to spec?  That many chipped bits will require more power to saw at the same feed.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't think they make the Saw Claw anymore.  If you have to have your saw hammered when you put in new shanks, wouldn't it make sense to have it hammered after you replaced the saw claw? 

[moodnacreek]

Was the saw claw from the same one who did the saw paw? I got screwed with one of those by the famous Creamer. They say the saw claw use required re hammering the saw. It seems to me that if you re tipped the same shanks that ran in your saw that wouldn't be so.

[Ventryjr]

Considering that the saw tended to wander in the kerf after sharpening, could it be that the sharpening job was uneven, or somehow not up to spec?  That many chipped bits will require more power to saw at the same feed.

It very well could be bad sharpening.  The jockey grinder I got with the mill was very well "loved" by the previous owner. It seems to have some wobble so I try to keep it as square as I can.  
What bits would you guys recommend? 

[Ron Wenrich]

If your running winter shanks, than go with a regular bit.  If your running regular shanks, you can run regular bits in the summer and standalls in the winter.  I always went with the long style of tooth.

I used to run chrome, but I was sawing mainly oak and tulip poplar.  Nails weren't too much of a problem, considering the amount of material we went through in a week.  I usually got about 60-70 Mbf on a set of teeth, but I didn't milk my teeth.  Short teeth never seemed to stay as sharp. 

[Ventryjr]

How do I identify if I have winter shanks or regular?  And how often would you be sharpening regular steel bits? I understand the wood your cutting will effect life of a sharpening. But would I expect to be sharpening steel twice as often as carbides? 10x more often? About the same amount of sharpening life? 

[Bradm]

And how often would you be sharpening regular steel bits? I understand the wood your cutting will effect life of a sharpening. But would I expect to be sharpening steel twice as often as carbides? 10x more often? About the same amount of sharpening life?

I don't have a picture of the tips to show frost shanks but I can answer this.
You will be sharpening a much greater frequency with steel tips vs carbide tips.  I can't say exactly how much more as frequency will be determined by species being cut and how clean the wood is.  Carbide tips started being used back in the mid 1980s and that is because over the long term they will be more cost effective than steel even though their initial cost can be close to 2-2.5x more.  The only other tooth material that will come close is stellite (there is also one called Cermet 2 but it is too brittle to use in a head saw application) and that is only in wood with a more acidic pitch (ie cedar) that degrades the binder in the carbide causing premature failure at the cutting edge.

[moodnacreek]

Regular bits and regular shanks form a crescent shaped  gullet. 'Frost' or winter shanks have a protrusion [nub] to change the action of the sawdust. 'Stand-all' bits have this nub on the bit up a little higher in the gullet.  The spilling of sawdust before the gullet is out of the cut is the problem especially in frozen logs. Sawing too slow may require stand-all's or the frost shanks. Putting in new shanks is expensive and can require re hammering the saw where stand-all's is just changing bits. All carbide bits are of stand-all style.

[Ventryjr]

I ended up swapping 6 or 7 chipped bits with some used ones close in wear depth. And it sawed noticeably better.  I'm probably going to hit then all with the jockey grinder again.  

I'm still undecided on which bits to order.  I may just stick with the carbides.  

Here's a video from this weekend. 
https://youtu.be/_WhyC6l4ahY

[Ron Wenrich]

I think a lot would depend on how dirty your logs are.  If they're pretty clean, you won't be chipping the carbide.  I imagine rocks are a problem with carbide, as well as metal. 

I nearly always hit some metal every week that I sawed.  I didn't feel the carbides were worth the extra dollars in cost and maintenance for the amount of metal hit.  At the time, I think carbide was 4 times the cost of steel or 3 times that of chrome.  I don't know what the cost differential is now.  Most mills in the area ran chrome.