Practicing timber framing in extremely limited space?

[Palmetto]

Greetings!

I'm brand new to timber framing -- as in, I've read a book or two and have a few tools on order (chisels, a slick, layout tools, etc.).  I'm looking forward to getting started creating layouts and crafting a few mortises and tenons for practice.

My question: how do I do that in my 638 sq. ft. apartment?  I was thinking about ordering something and having it cut into ~2 foot lengths, then cutting my mortises and tenons on each.  I do have a small porch, if needed.  

1) Does that sound like a good idea?  If so, then 2) what dimension wood should I order for practice (and I'm assuming eastern white pine)?, and 3) from where?  Is there anything usable for practice at a big box store?

I'm dying to get started.  We're looking at land and, after I'm feeling more confident with my skills, want to put up a Sobon shed, or something along those lines.

Thanks in advance!

[Brad_bb]

What about attending a 5 day introduction to timber framing workshop?  That's what I did. I did 2 of them actually.  One used power tools as well as hand tools and had a day on engineering of a timberframe as well as cutting and raising a frame.  The other workshop used only hand tools.  Learned a lot from both.

[doc henderson]

when I lived in Albany, NY I had an apartment, with a concrete patio and a closet that was 3 x 6 feet.  no lights or plug in so had to fish through the wall into and interior plug.  made a bench and shelves in the closet, and worked on the patio.  if you are on a upper floor, with a wood deck, might be noisy for neighbors.  

[Ljohnsaw]

How about making something that you will be using when you build your shed?  I need to get back and finish my colts but what you will be needing is a good set of timber saw horses - known as a Mare & Colt.  There are a couple of threads that are both informative and humorous.

Timber Frame Sawhorse System

Roster's Mare & Colt Timber Frame Sawhorse System

I'd say go to a big box store and get some 6x6 doug fir or hemlock (depending on where you are located) and go for it.  That wood is generally pretty green (wet) and cuts good with a sharp chisel.  I made my Mares with 6x6 material and 4x4 brace stock.

[Don P]

All of the above is good advice. You're probably going to need to set up a relationship with a sawmill to get the sizes you'll be needing in the future, might as well start looking. I'm guessing from your handle that southern pine will be the most available to you. The "extras" tab at the top of the page has a "find-a-sawyer" button, Woodmizer keeps a list of sawyers for hire, I imagine several other manufacturers do, yellow pages and word of mouth locally are other ways. With what you are asking for here, I would probably point you to my blocking pile and tell you to grab some 4 ft 6x6's for practice. You can get treated 6x6 yellow pine at the big box if nothing else just to get a feel for the tools. Do wipe them down with oil after playing with that to avoid corrosion.

[Palmetto]

What about attending a 5 day introduction to timber framing workshop?  That's what I did. I did 2 of them actually.  One used power tools as well as hand tools and had a day on engineering of a timberframe as well as cutting and raising a frame.  The other workshop used only hand tools.  Learned a lot from both.

I thought about doing precisely that.  Unfortunately, due to the current virus chaos, most places aren't open.  I ended up buying a video version of Shelter Institute's curriculum and watching those lessons all the way through.  That was the best compromise I could make.  It's not ideal, but it gave me an overview of the tools, their use, laying things out, techniques, etc.
In person would be better, though.  You're absolutely right.

[Palmetto]

when I lived in Albany, NY I had an apartment, with a concrete patio and a closet that was 3 x 6 feet.  no lights or plug in so had to fish through the wall into and interior plug.  made a bench and shelves in the closet, and worked on the patio.  if you are on a upper floor, with a wood deck, might be noisy for neighbors.  

That's definitely a concern.  I live in a second-floor condo, and because of the stay-at-home orders, my downstairs neighbor is almost always there.  I suppose I could lay things out here, and then head to a family member's house with some outdoor space to do the actual work.  That's probably a good compromise (and would preserve friendly relations with my neighbors).
Thanks!

[Palmetto]

How about making something that you will be using when you build your shed?  I need to get back and finish my colts but what you will be needing is a good set of timber saw horses - known as a Mare & Colt.  There are a couple of threads that are both informative and humorous.

Timber Frame Sawhorse System

Roster's Mare & Colt Timber Frame Sawhorse System

I'd say go to a big box store and get some 6x6 doug fir or hemlock (depending on where you are located) and go for it.  That wood is generally pretty green (wet) and cuts good with a sharp chisel.  I made my Mares with 6x6 material and 4x4 brace stock.

Interesting idea!  I may give that a shot.

[GAB]

Palmetto:
Have you considered building a scale model of what ever it is you are considering building.
If anyone asks you what it is tell them it is a dog house.  That will get attention if you are in a no pets condo.
Gerald

[Palmetto]

All of the above is good advice. You're probably going to need to set up a relationship with a sawmill to get the sizes you'll be needing in the future, might as well start looking. I'm guessing from your handle that southern pine will be the most available to you. The "extras" tab at the top of the page has a "find-a-sawyer" button, Woodmizer keeps a list of sawyers for hire, I imagine several other manufacturers do, yellow pages and word of mouth locally are other ways. With what you are asking for here, I would probably point you to my blocking pile and tell you to grab some 4 ft 6x6's for practice. You can get treated 6x6 yellow pine at the big box if nothing else just to get a feel for the tools. Do wipe them down with oil after playing with that to avoid corrosion.

Good advice.  I may go the big-box route, but only because the place I live currently (Charleston, S.C.) is not the place I'll be buying and building (just across the border from you: Boone, N.C.), so I'll have a different sawyer up there.
You mentioned oil: what do you recommend for cleaning?
Thanks for your input!

[Palmetto]

Palmetto:
Have you considered building a scale model of what ever it is you are considering building.
If anyone asks you what it is tell them it is a dog house.  That will get attention if you are in a no pets condo.
Gerald

I have a cat, so he can have his own to-scale house, I suppose.  Hmm...  I guess 12 (in cat years) is old enough to get his own place.

[Don P]

Basically anything, the act of wiping gets most moisture and corrosives but any oil will help protect it. I'll also just wipe with my wax rag, there is usually a can of paste wax around when I'm working to grease the tenons. I've left a chisel on green oak overnight and come back to pretty healthy corrosion the next morning, the treatment chemicals can be similar.

You'll probably be using white pine or mixed oak up here, and there's a sawmill under every other shade tree :D.

[swmn]

A lot of good advice already.  Don't mean to detract from any of it.  I too am a n00b and I am doing OK here.  I live in the burbs with some garage space, your second floor condo is an added wrinkle.  My wife and I are in the "reality check" phase ourselves, as in when we sell in Alaska and retire down south could we use the equity in our house to buy land and a pile of sticks and live in a trailer while I cut a house frame?

The following is a synopsis of what I have done, without living in a second floor condo.

First I built a small workbench, nominal 24 x 48 inch top out of laminated 2x4s with 4x6 legs from the Big Orange Retail Giant (BORG).  I did mortise and tenon joints all around, the first mortise I cut with chisel only and I have never done that again.  To build a house I am definitely investing in a beam drill with the expectation I will be able to sell it for about what I paid for it.

The nice thing about using 4x6 from the BORG is they are dirt cheap, and you can usually see the grain pattern on the ends of the lumber.  Quartersawn, boxed heart, FOHC, they will all be there on the racks to make the books real.  Flat sawn, rift sawn, knotty junk, all present and accounted for.

The down side is my bench isn't going though any man door in any house I ever visited.  The legs are mortised into the top, and drawbored.  It isn't coming apart without a saw, but it is in the garage so I can get it out of this house.  You'd think at 24" width it wouldn't be a problem, I guess it depends on how many doorways and how tight the corners are, it would be a cold hearted blue barnacle to carry through the house, never mind stairs.

One of my local saw mills (the high volume one) has a pile of stuff that doesn't meet grade for one reason or another.  I picked up an 8x8 that was 7' 10" long and didn't make grade two for about a quarter of the price of an 8' grade 2 8x8.  Cutting joints in that fool thing has been an eye opener.  Cut the ends off square, find a reference face and edge, mark it up, lay stuff out, the whole nine yards.  Expensive fuel for the woodstove, but priceless experience.

Once I get the 8x8, and accompanying 16 foot 4x8 for test rafters into the wood stove, next up is a scale model Sobon Shed.  I have 6 feet of 4x8 and 5 feet of 8x8 left to go.  I got to do rafter seats and rafter math again, and try the through dovetail joint full scale.

I got a bunch of 2x2s and some 1x4 furring strips at the BORG.  And a 1/4" mortise chisel, and I found an inexpensive socket chisel at the antique store that needed a handle not quite 3/4" wide.  I rounded the edge on the latter so I have essentially a modeler's slick now that I have a handle in the socket. I have a band saw, but likely I will take all my 2x2 nominals to a guy at my church with a table saw and let him cut them down to 1x1 actual before I commence model making.  I haven't picked a specific saw for model making, but I have a bunch of crosscuts saws in the 10-11-12 tpi range so I should be able to use one of those.  I expect about a 28oz mallet will be about right for running the 1/4" mortise chisel, might be too big.

What I am struggling the most with is getting my joints tight.  I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the easier math and I can visualize the layout and mark it up correctly, but when I leave lines in all the places there should still be pencil lines my joints don't go together, and then I shave off 1 hair and they fit like a hat in a hallway.  Then there is stack errors where each individual joint seems lame but them when I am putting four legs and four stretchers together (I built a table for my belt/ disc sander too) I am swinging my mallet pretty hard, and then dropping the leg tenons into the mortise of the top I got out my 8# sledge.

Lou Holz said, "perfect practice makes perfect, imperfect practice makes bad habits."  I can say I am getting better.  My shoulders are coming out great, my drawboring is much improved and I got to pay better attention when cutting the ends, the cross grain portion, of my mortises.

I will say the regulars here are really really good about answering questions, but in general they expect you have all the background info that lead you to your question.  They aren't, in general, planning to lead you step by step to why.  One thing I did that has saved me from starting a bunch of threads on my journey is go back to page one in this section and read all the threads that seemed like they might be helpful stuff to know.  There is four tons of information already posted here, my wife and I went on a trip a few months ago, ten airports in nine days; it was enough. If you have Jack Sobons "Red Book" already, the one with the shed in it, think pretty hard about grabbing Will Beemer's book too.  Mr. Sobon's first (red) book is all about timber framing in general, and here is an easy shed to build.  Mr. Beemer's book is , OK lets build Jack's shed step by step with pictures and circles and arrows on the pictures and enlightening commentary in the text too.

I think if I was in a second floor condo I would jump straight to a scale model building of a Sobon shed (with Will Beemer's book open beside me) using mostly hand tools, probably a power drill for getting most of the waste out of the mortises - but definitely take an ungraded 8x8 out in the country somewhere and have at it before you try to convince your wife you know what you are doing.

Best wishes and good luck.  Do NOT waste your money on cheap tools for this.

[Palmetto]

A lot of good advice already.  Don't mean to detract from any of it.  I too am a n00b and I am doing OK here.  I live in the burbs with some garage space, your second floor condo is an added wrinkle.  My wife and I are in the "reality check" phase ourselves, as in when we sell in Alaska and retire down south could we use the equity in our house to buy land and a pile of sticks and live in a trailer while I cut a house frame?

The following is a synopsis of what I have done, without living in a second floor condo.

First I built a small workbench, nominal 24 x 48 inch top out of laminated 2x4s with 4x6 legs from the Big Orange Retail Giant (BORG).  I did mortise and tenon joints all around, the first mortise I cut with chisel only and I have never done that again.  To build a house I am definitely investing in a beam drill with the expectation I will be able to sell it for about what I paid for it.

The nice thing about using 4x6 from the BORG is they are dirt cheap, and you can usually see the grain pattern on the ends of the lumber.  Quartersawn, boxed heart, FOHC, they will all be there on the racks to make the books real.  Flat sawn, rift sawn, knotty junk, all present and accounted for.

The down side is my bench isn't going though any man door in any house I ever visited.  The legs are mortised into the top, and drawbored.  It isn't coming apart without a saw, but it is in the garage so I can get it out of this house.  You'd think at 24" width it wouldn't be a problem, I guess it depends on how many doorways and how tight the corners are, it would be a cold hearted blue barnacle to carry through the house, never mind stairs.

One of my local saw mills (the high volume one) has a pile of stuff that doesn't meet grade for one reason or another.  I picked up an 8x8 that was 7' 10" long and didn't make grade two for about a quarter of the price of an 8' grade 2 8x8.  Cutting joints in that fool thing has been an eye opener.  Cut the ends off square, find a reference face and edge, mark it up, lay stuff out, the whole nine yards.  Expensive fuel for the woodstove, but priceless experience.

Once I get the 8x8, and accompanying 16 foot 4x8 for test rafters into the wood stove, next up is a scale model Sobon Shed.  I have 6 feet of 4x8 and 5 feet of 8x8 left to go.  I got to do rafter seats and rafter math again, and try the through dovetail joint full scale.

I got a bunch of 2x2s and some 1x4 furring strips at the BORG.  And a 1/4" mortise chisel, and I found an inexpensive socket chisel at the antique store that needed a handle not quite 3/4" wide.  I rounded the edge on the latter so I have essentially a modeler's slick now that I have a handle in the socket. I have a band saw, but likely I will take all my 2x2 nominals to a guy at my church with a table saw and let him cut them down to 1x1 actual before I commence model making.  I haven't picked a specific saw for model making, but I have a bunch of crosscuts saws in the 10-11-12 tpi range so I should be able to use one of those.  I expect about a 28oz mallet will be about right for running the 1/4" mortise chisel, might be too big.

What I am struggling the most with is getting my joints tight.  I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the easier math and I can visualize the layout and mark it up correctly, but when I leave lines in all the places there should still be pencil lines my joints don't go together, and then I shave off 1 hair and they fit like a hat in a hallway.  Then there is stack errors where each individual joint seems lame but them when I am putting four legs and four stretchers together (I built a table for my belt/ disc sander too) I am swinging my mallet pretty hard, and then dropping the leg tenons into the mortise of the top I got out my 8# sledge.

Lou Holz said, "perfect practice makes perfect, imperfect practice makes bad habits."  I can say I am getting better.  My shoulders are coming out great, my drawboring is much improved and I got to pay better attention when cutting the ends, the cross grain portion, of my mortises.

I will say the regulars here are really really good about answering questions, but in general they expect you have all the background info that lead you to your question.  They aren't, in general, planning to lead you step by step to why.  One thing I did that has saved me from starting a bunch of threads on my journey is go back to page one in this section and read all the threads that seemed like they might be helpful stuff to know.  There is four tons of information already posted here, my wife and I went on a trip a few months ago, ten airports in nine days; it was enough. If you have Jack Sobons "Red Book" already, the one with the shed in it, think pretty hard about grabbing Will Beemer's book too.  Mr. Sobon's first (red) book is all about timber framing in general, and here is an easy shed to build.  Mr. Beemer's book is , OK lets build Jack's shed step by step with pictures and circles and arrows on the pictures and enlightening commentary in the text too.

I think if I was in a second floor condo I would jump straight to a scale model building of a Sobon shed (with Will Beemer's book open beside me) using mostly hand tools, probably a power drill for getting most of the waste out of the mortises - but definitely take an ungraded 8x8 out in the country somewhere and have at it before you try to convince your wife you know what you are doing.

Best wishes and good luck.  Do NOT waste your money on cheap tools for this.

Wow!  Nice.  As far as our tools and planning, I think we're on the same page; I've finished Sobon's book, and I'm working through Beemer's book now.  As for tools, I bought the Shelter Institute's "Deluxe" toolkit as a starting point (Barr chisels, Starrett combination square, Shinwa rafter square, Japanese slick, etc.).  I figure that'll get me what I need, at least for now.  Unfortunately, I don't have enough know-how to buy older tools and attempt to restore them.  Once I learn to use these, I'll probably look at some powertools (chain mortiser, circular saw...) in the future.
(It's funny you mention Lou Holtz; I'm a lifelong, diehard South Carolina Gamecocks fan, and even gave my senior speech in high school on Lou's philosophies to living a good life.  I agree with your/his quote 100%!)
I might build some sawhorses, but I'll probably do that at either my brother's house or my parents' house.  They have space for me to work, and they can store them until I need them.
Hope the next phases of learning and development go well for both of us!

[swmn]

I meant to mention last night, when I was reading the archives here I never once read someone say "taking a 5 day class was a waste of money."  The very taciturn would say they are glad they took it and got something out of it, the sky is the limit above and beyond from there.  I might try a Sobon shed without a class; but it looks like money well spent, and might be easier to secure a construction loan with a class under my belt too.