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Here's one for you circular sawmill enthusiasts...

Started by Coon, May 30, 2011, 06:04:04 PM

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Coon

Being the forum has the greatest knowledge base on forestry and sawmill related topics I have something that I have been searching for and can't seem to find any info on.  This would be a sawmill made by the Prince Albert Foundry.  There is one about 15 miles from where I live that I am going to see sometime this week.  This mill is also for sale and the owners are willing to get me to saw out a bunch of lumber in exchange for the mill.  From what I was told the mill is hydraulic drive but is missing the pump.  Now what I believe he means is that the carriage is hydraulic drive but won't know for sure until I see the mill.

Do any of you circular mill sawyers/owners know anything about these mills?  I have vaguely heard of these in the past and have searched google with no results.  I was told that the foundry also quit building mills in the 60's if that makes any difference.  The foundry was also built in 1911 and this is about the extent of my knowledge that I know.

Brad.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

bandmiller2

Brad,most of the older circular mills are of local manufacture with a few national brands.It all boiles down to condition and how complete the mill is it may be a real find if the price is reasonable.I've never heard of  prince albert foundry your best chance for history is to find some old timers in your area. About all the older mills are close enough to mix and match parts.If you can take some pictures of the mill parts and power. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Coon

Frank, that's kinda what I figured.  I will take pics when I go out to look at the mill.  Supposedly it has a 42" saw on it.  The owners that have it have never used it and are asking $1000 cash for it or I can do some sawing of their logs for them for the full price of the mill.  If the mill is in decent enough shape it's worth their asking price.  I will have to find a power source of my own though.

How many horse power would I need to run a 42" saw along with some hydraulics?  There are alot of tractors around these parts that are for sale pretty cheap.  Just waiting for the right one to come along with a FEL and 3PT hitch.  Many tractors around these parts don't have the 3pt hitches. 

Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

Carpenter

     70 or 80 horsepower should pull a 42" blade just fine.  Although it has more to do with the number of teeth and feed rate than saw diameter.  The general rule of thumb that I've read is 2 to 3 HP per tooth. 

r.man

A few things to consider.
(1) Tractors without three point hitches are much cheaper than those with.
(2) Most tractors have a pto shaft so they are suitable to drive a mill.
(3) Smaller hp tractors , say 30-45 hp, will actually run a large machine but it may need to be finessed in heavy cutting.
Taking this approach would allow you to start up the mill and run it through your learning curve with a much less expensive piece of support equipment that will hold its resale value and do the job it needs to until you can afford a larger tractor or possibly decide that you don't need anything larger. 
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

paul case

i think $1000 is a good deal on a circle mill in good condition with a steel husk and carriage. power supply shouldnt be too hard to come up with. happy hunting.  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Coon

I can't wait to go see the mill.  ;D  I was talking to one of the owners again tonight a bit but he doesn't seem to know much more about it than I previously mentioned.  We're hoping to go look at it tomorrow evening if the weather permits.  The mill is supposedly all steal if Arden remembers correctly as he has stated that he hasn't even so much as looked at the mill since they took it out to the farm.

I'll make sure I remember to take my tape measure and sharpee marker when I go for a look see.  I seem to take them with me wherever I go anyhow.  ;D   

I have been looking at tractors in the 40 hp range and up. A tractor of 40 hp is what I'd like for pulling the grapple log trailer that I am building.  We'll see what I can find around here though...
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

Ron Wenrich

I sure hope it hasn't been sitting outside all these years.  You need to look at the headblocks and see how bad they are worn.  You won't be able to find replacements, but I know of guys that built the worn areas up with weld.  It works.  The other place to look at is the condition of the setworks.  If they are worn, you'll have to convert over to something else.  Not cheap.

Rule-of-thumb is 5hp per inch of wood.  A 42" saw with a 6" collar would yield about a 16-17" cut.  You also have to throw some power into your hydraulics.  35-40 hp is way low, in my opinion.  You would be better off with a stationary power unit like a Detroit 4-71 or the like.  If you are underpowered, your feed rates will get slow in those bigger logs.  That can cause problems, depending on the wood being sawn. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

paul case

i know the power thing was going to solve another problem by supplying a tractor, but i would bet a fella could buy an old semi truck with a big diesel engine and make a driveshaft to power the mill with. a neighbor had done this to his mill and it worked out real nice. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Coon

I know where there is a 4-71 for sale freshly rebuilt for $1500 that would work but the thing is I would rather have a tractor with FEL for loading a dead deck with logs then hook up to the mill and slice and dice them up.  ;D  I checked out a couple of tractors this morning but the prices were pretty steep.  These tractors were in the 80-100 hp range. 

Being that the mill has a 42" blade size is a limiting factor though.  I have call for a whole bunch of wide slabs that would be better suited to a bandmill.   ;)  Many of the trees we have out at the farm would be a bit on the hard side of things to saw without a top saw on the ol circle mill.  I just don't wanna lose a deal like this though so..... will probably snag this mill up and get it all tuned in and purchase a bandmill at a later date.  I could always flip the mill for a bit of a profit and use that towards a bandmill purchase.... 

Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

Carpenter

     Yeah, there's nothing at all wrong with having two mills.  But, it's real nice to have a seperate power plant for the mill and still have a tractor or forklift available to move stuff around with.

bandmiller2

Brad,its a big pain in the butt to have one tractor and have to switch from mill to loading.Belsaw mills use a driveshaft direct from the PTO and everything turns the right direction. Right hand mill, your PTO would turn the wrong way,and hooking up and aligning  a long flat belt is something you don't want to do every day.A stationary dedicated diesel is the best route in the long run.A 42" saw will handle a good sized log, as everytime you take a slab cut you reduce the dia. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

paul case

Quote from: Coon on May 31, 2011, 04:52:29 PMI checked out a couple of tractors this morning but the prices were pretty steep.                                        I could always flip the mill for a bit of a profit and use that towards a bandmill purchase.... 



you can usually find all sorts of good deals on tractors when you dont need one!

i picked up a belsaw for $1k and sold it after using it off and on for a year for $2500. helped me afford the ez boardwalk. i wouldnt go back to my tractor driven belsaw for love nor money!

pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Coon

Frank,  I know what you are saying that the mill will cut some pretty big logs but I have demand for wide slabs 3" thick that I am pretty sure the circular mill won't be able to cut if it's only able to saw a 16 or 17" cut.

On the neighbors mill that we used to saw on we used one tractor for loading the deck and sawing both and it wasn't too much of a hassle to unhook or hook back up.  Once you did it a few times you had the hang of doing it and there was enough of a rut that you just got the tires into and just backed on in.

Paul, I know all about those deals, but being in the heart of farming country there are tractors everywhere.  Sometimes one just has to go out for a drive and talk to a few farmers.  ;) 

I also know one thing for sure with the whole situation...... A circular mill will be a royal pain in the butt to get into my hidden landing where I want to set up.  I really want to have the mill set up in an out of sight out of mind place due to the severity of vandalism that occurs in the area.  Also my skid lengths and haul distances for the next few years would be minimized.  The landing is by no means large either and I would have to make it bigger to fit, thus requiring the takedown of several healthy trees that we want to keep. 

How wide is the throat on an LT15?  This may be better suited for me..... 



Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

captain_crunch

How wide are you wanting?? I can cut 17" with my bellsaw run off 40+hp Ford 3000 Have cut 30" logs had to help with PS on first cuts. But I am a nut for likeing the old ways. Friend has an American with 50" blade and 453 Detroit fer power he use to own my Belsaw and stll thinks I can out saw him. His carrage is belt drive and Much faster than my hyd drive but you got to be on your toes or saw will grab log and pull too much where my Hyd wont let this happen. He can gig back much faster but cant cut any faster. But slower gig back allows me to off bear boards and so I can saw solo without much problem
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Coon

We are in need of 20" wide slabs and possibly up to 24". 

Captain,  how big of a hydraulic motor do you habe on your mill?  This mill is hydraulic drive but needs the motor..... and I have no clue what size was on it.  The mill was purchased and never used by these owners.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

captain_crunch

Mine uses a small Char-Linn orbit motor with a chain drive to cable drum rather than the belt drive system off arbor. It is powered by tractor remote hyd system carrage will opperate any time tractor is running. So if I don't engage PTO saw does not turn great for adjusting and checking carrage alignment
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Coon

I am kinda thinking this mill is probably setup like your C C.  I have seen a couple of others set up like this over the years when I think about it.  Looks like I probably have a motor here at the house that will work for me. 

I am impatiently waiting to go look at the mill.  ::)  One of the owners is out of town and the other is simply busy.  Oh well, I guess I can twiddle my thumbs for another day or five until it rains enough that Arden is off work.   :D
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

argyle1

I.ve seen a few prince albert mills and owned one---I've never seen one that would only take a 42" saw, once you see it I think you will see that it will take a 50 or 52 inch saw by backing the guides out

They were a belt drive, someone has added the hyraulics. They were also wooden carraiges and husks, but someone may have upgraded it to steel

That's a great deal on the 4-71 and it will be fine to run the mill and the hyraulics.
As far as the price on the mill, you wouldn't be able to buy the saw new for $2000.00.
It's a good buy if the mill is mostly there

Coon

argyle1, the mill is supposedly all still there except for the hydraulic drive motor.  I really hope that it has a bigger saw on it then the 42"  they claim it to have.  Maybe he was mistaken and it is a 52" saw on it.  I won't know for sure till I go have a look see for mineself.  ;) 

The 4-71 was sold yesterday.  >:(  Some guy needed it for his gravel truck and gave him more money than he was asking for it cuz he needed it badly.  His truck was down and gravel and dirt orders piling up.  I don't blame the guy for selling it.  I woulda too.  Oh well,  Gonna go look at more tractors this weekend.

Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

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