At what point is it worth more?

[mike_belben]

Joe, what about a 450 sized hydrostatic crawler loader with a dangle barsaw head from a bells?

I know it wont be a real buncher production wise but you'll be in a cab a lot more often instead of right there in the killzone and i know it'll tug wood around.


The bell hightrack ultra T with a dangle could probably lay down a lot of firewood in a day. 

[Riwaka]

A lower outlay for a tracked machine that can effectively put wood on the ground is something like an old (some life left hopefully) Timbco short boom feller buncher (with an old spec forestry cab) and put a younger ryans or waratah  etc dangle saw. Need an Timbco expert to assess machine etc.

There are a lot of track swing machine options - reinforce the boom/ guard up a cat 321D  compact radius etc if working in select cuts, an TC 822 FB with a worn out  hot saw head and swap to a dangle saw.( and could swap to a mulcher head)

The excavator base could be made to change between the dangle head saw and still have a bucket for digging work etc.
JD excavator with a waratah dangle saw
A Closer Look into the Forest Products Industry, Logging - YouTube

Could go to a forestry tractor (with forestry tires) and a multipurpose crane trailer that can do agricultural work as a sideline.(Bale hay, pick up bales etc)

Forestry Tractor and multi-purpose trailer
CT15 / FT15 | Farmi Forest

(3 wheel phoenix) most of 3 wheel stuff can tip over, Bell etc. there were also 5 wheel and tracked Bells. (Matriarch have a 4 wheel version of the delfab)
Welcome to Delfab!

Kansas City - Wood Cracker  (blade shear machine operating alongside an old skidder, old rubber tire loader, ) checkout the Colfax, NC vid too
Woodcracker goes West 2 - Kansas - YouTube

West tech CS780 also a head that allows a logging excavator to convert back to a bucket. etc
GreifersägeWOODCRACKER CS780 in Frankreich - YouTube  

I seen protected cab excavators with just bucket and another time with just a plain grapple, swing and hit old big trees high up the tree and a rain of old rotten branches come down that would have hurt or worse a chainsaw operator who put their bar in the tree, without the 'tree thump' being done. 

Machine assisted felling can make hazardous felling safer. The chainsaw operator leaves the final tree push down to the excavator operator.  or the machine holds the tree while the operator is cutting it etc when felling with a leaning tree etc.

[mike_belben]

Ashe equipment has a barko 1080C with a processor head on it.. Interesting contraption.  Maybe something like that could be handy for you.

[Firewoodjoe]

Ashe equipment has a barko 1080C with a processor head on it.. Interesting contraption.  Maybe something like that could be handy for you.

Those were popular here in the 90s for row pine. It would not cut log trees on this ground. And for that money I can buy a Deere 653 or 290 or 490 with a Fabtek head. They will cut 20". The equipment is here. Lots of logging and ctl. But you have to really look it over. Old iron can cost a lot but I've had good luck over the years if I'm careful. There's even a timbco with a rolly ll head for 42,000 but I've heard those can be real money pits. Equipment isn't a problem it's will it be worth that money and headache vs a simple cheap (and dangerous) chainsaw.🤔

[mike_belben]

Oh yeah the price was silly considering it needed a obsolete main pump.  Ive seen broken barkos for $3k. I had just never seen one with rollers on it before.  Usually shear knives. 

[Ed_K]

 I went back an read your first post. You said we at one point but do you work alone or with help? The last three jobs I did before getting sick, I had the perfect set up for a one person business. I have a cable skidder about the same size as a 640 jd. In 2010 it was totally rebuilt the only thing I haven't done is the pins on the blade.Been thinking of putting a 6way on.It now has 590 hrs on,it only get used on the job for the big stuff 18" and up. I've reworked my Landini 60 hp so that it weighs all most 5t it has the loader on with a grapple hanging off the front of the bucket,then I put a winch w/hitch on. I have a forwarder trailer to use and also a hay wagon w/ bunks instead of a body. A bunch of saws and that's it for equipment.
 I use the tractor the most, it's there to use the winch to pull medium trees to a pile,12" to 18". If I have a tree that might be a hazard the bucket is on the tree above my head with a little pressure (case it ever wanted to fall on me you know machines like to do that) so I can cut it. If I want a certain angle the bucket pushes it that way. I'm on the tractor under a real good roof (10" pole doesn't bend it). When I'm cutting poles the tractor an grapple pull them into a pile.It also is there to lift the butt up to put a chocker on. If I'm safe I use the grapple to lift the tree to limb it,if not I drag to the pile an limb it there. I use it to cut the big stuff too but use the skidder to push or cable an angle an drag it to the short landings an use the tractor to help with limbing it. I then use the forwarder trailer to haul short logs to the landing or the hay trailer for 22' cordwood and double logs rarely do I skid anything to the landing w/the skidder.

 If I could afford 1 helper it would probably double what I could produce in a day. The last job there was a few days I sent out a truck load in a days time. That job was mostly 30" r/oak. Forester should have let me cut all of it cause the left over really good oak blew over the next summer in a small wind storm. He wanted me to come clean it up but by that time I was so sick I couldn't get on the tractor let alone climb up the skidder. That's my best hope it was something to think about.

[quilbilly]

To the original title you'll have to answer that yourself. With the interest rate being so low if you have the work I'd right now would be the point it is worth more to get more mechanized. 

I can't see your jobs but if you want to be able to move everything yourself then a three wheel buncher seems the way to go. If you're willing to go with bigger equipment I'd think a processor is what you'd want. Especially if you have a forwarder. 

We were in the same predicament a few years ago and really messed up by not taking a chance and getting bigger equipment. It meant we went slower, and lost many potential jobs bc of it. 

[Firewoodjoe]

I cut and cable skid what needs and dad runs forwarder. A processor or a buncher is the only real option or change nothing. And yes only I can make that decision. Just looking for input from those who have or have not went the next step. And I've had a good bit of responses to think about. 🙂 much appreciated. 

[mike_belben]

Joe, i think you should buy a boat and take dad fishin while you still can.    Theres more to life than work and chasing money.

@Ed_K i really hope youll start a thread of your iron setup.  I am intrigued.  Hope you heal up and get back on that horse.

[Firewoodjoe]

Joe, i think you should buy a boat and take dad fishin while you still can.    Theres more to life than work and chasing money.

@Ed_K i really hope youll start a thread of your iron setup.  I am intrigued.  Hope you heal up and get back on that horse.

I had a nice open bow boat once lol id rather get remarried than buy another boat! But I know what you mean. We camp and hunt a lot together. We don't work tons of hours in the woods. There for 8 hrs a day. Then we sawmill or feed the cows lol

[mike_belben]

Well then get remarried.  Its less maintenance than a cheap old processor will be! 

:D

[Firewoodjoe]

Lol 😂 I've never owned a cheap old processor but I'm thinking it would be a toss up. 

[Riwaka]

Another skill for the chainsaw saw felling crews  is to take a higher level first aid course with CATs and T3 bandages etc.
and other relevant training.

Planning the block prior to falling.BC. (Planners and tree cutters)  I am surprised at the tracks cut in the slope at 10:18
Layout Planning: A Focus on Faller Safety - YouTube

[teakwood]

Theres more to life than work and chasing money.

the wisest words until now on FF!
When i hear some of you guys talking about the hours you work i'm shocked and roll my eyes a little bit. Especially from our good friend on the forum, the king of savage working hours, 8days a week, from 6am to 11pm and then chase after a Blonde , you all know whom i referring to! I hope that at least he will have his bank accounts full when he burns out.

If i have learned something good from the costaricans is to enjoy life, they know how to do it, they live every day as they appear.  

[mike_belben]

I will say that the king of conesville drops what hes doing and hangs out all day when he has visitors.  He probably just needs more of them. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Theres more to life than work and chasing money.

If i have learned something good from the costaricans is to enjoy life, they know how to do it, they live every day as they appear.  

OK, it's Saturday and I admit it was a long and very sweaty week and I wound up blowing the day off by default and 'wasted' it visiting a logger friend and having way too much fun watching his 3 year old little girl play with her new 4 year old boyfriend in some freshly screened topsoil out of his new to him trommel. Anyway he gave me a growler of good local beer when I left and I may have tasted just a bit (OK, it's empty) and when I read your post and saw the word "costaricans" I had no idea what you meant. I had to google the term only to learn that you left out the space between "Costa" and "Ricans". I laughed WAY too hard at myself. :D ;D (you should too or there is something wrong with you.)
 Anyway. I can't speak for others but I like filling the day, everyday, with good productive work. I admire guys like the one you referred to, I know him and have had the pleasure of visiting him more than a few times in just this past year. I get logs from him, and advice. A harder working (or playing I am told) guy you will never meet, that's true. There are many nights he is at it well past 11pm, but as Mike pointed out, he makes time for visitors no matter what. Some of us just like working when we are doing things we like. My problem is I am getting older and it is getting harder to go out and do that last session after dinner every night. I still like keeping the 7 day a week schedule though. There is always something that needs doing and if I don't do it, it don't get done. I can't speak for others, that's just me.

[Old Greenhorn]

I will say that the king of conesville drops what hes doing and hangs out all day when he has visitors.  He probably just needs more of them.

I like that "the king of Conesville", but I think his Pop gets that title, just by default. But I am with you. ;D His Dad is a sweet generous guy too.

[Corley5]

Cheap old processors don't exist.  You can go broke just as fast with an old one as a new one.  If you can afford an old CTL processor you can afford a new one.

[Mountaynman]

As the story goes been there done that seen it lived it made more money cuttin big wood on steep ground with a dozer and forwarder by myself or with a helper, Than i ever did with 3 or 4 helpers processor, skidder, dozer, sit and spin slasher, forwarder, log truck, firewood processor and the rest of it glad to be semi retired but do miss cuttin timber. Used to contract cut some on the tracts where no one else would go scattered big timber steep ground one tree at a time with the dozer to the top of the mountain. when they avg 600ft a tree 12-15 a day makes the world go round. Here just north of barges emporium cable skidders and high grading rule the woods too far from pulp markets and any thing else stick with what your doing bud buy dad a newer buggy 6 wheel fabtek when i sold mine had 32,000 hrs on it and is still goin tday more stable than 4 wheel and 6 cd loads then get yourself a newer skidder or add a dozer to the mix. Best of luck stay safe

[mike_belben]

Downside to being close to pulp markets is they make big wood a thing of the past.  20" DBH and 60ft tall becomes the big stuff
 

[BargeMonkey]

Well then get remarried.  Its less maintenance than a cheap old processor will be!

:D

😆 the money I've spent on divorce and child support I could be 3/4 retired by now. 

[BargeMonkey]

 Can you move a larger machine reasonably ? 490/120s with a 4 roller are around, a 415 with a barsaw will lay down alot of wood. 1x day in my 425D takes me a week behind the 440D to clean up. Anything you buy is going to help, just make sure it's not stove up or make sure the price reflects it. 

[Firewoodjoe]

Can you move a larger machine reasonably ? 490/120s with a 4 roller are around, a 415 with a barsaw will lay down alot of wood. 1x day in my 425D takes me a week behind the 440D to clean up. Anything you buy is going to help, just make sure it's not stove up or make sure the price reflects it.

Yes there's transport. And the mill will haul it. There's always an option. But I couldn't myself. I know the rest of the year I have big wood. No harvester could cut most of these trees. I'll just have to see where it leads. 

[Skeans1]

@Firewoodjoe 
How big are you talking? I've up above 32" with a harvester before it's possible to do.

[stavebuyer]

New versus used. Payments versus repairs. I have seen some very mechanically inclined guys piece together "well seasoned" equipment and somehow make it work. I was never one of those guys. I think its fine if its a hobby, its ok if you can pay cash especially if the equipment in question is not a "must have to operate" like a say an old dozer for dressing up roads. You hire that easily after the sale if your antique dozer needs a transmission rebuild. Things you depend on to make a living I firmly believe that if your business model cannot justify payments on new then it won't work out with worn out gear either. The cost is not much different and running the old can cost more if you figure in down time especially working in the weather where the 2 days you loose on repairs/parts were the only 2 days suitable to work. I see it time and time again. Guy starting out doesn't have a big credit line and no way he can make payments on a 200k skidder out of pocket but gets a loan from the local bank at stupid interest on a 30 year old 50k machine with unknown hours and some parts getting hard to find. A few months later it is December the mud is belly pan deep and the motor throws a rod. Down for 2 weeks hunting a replacement that goes on the credit card as a cash advance. Last years taxes due in April and this years insurance. Been a wet spring and the friendly banker ain't quite as friendly. The payments on the new machine worked out to be less than payments on the old one+parts+ 2 weeks down time.