palletizing firewood

jimbarry · December 31, 2018, 05:33:58 PM

Trying a new way to split and stack firewood. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Previous idea was crating, which works, but takes time and resources to build the crates. So I thought about strapping the wood to pallets. I made a crib that would hold a 32x48" pallet, 36" high. Equals 32 cu ft (1/4 cord).

While its first time doing it this way, and trying to figure out the strap tensioner tool, it took some fussing. Eventually we got it strapped and I moved it off the crib with the skidsteer and into the back of the truck. It kind of went sideways from that point. It fell apart a bit.

So I reverted back to our first idea of a full wood crate.

Not one to give up on an idea right away, we'll try again with the strapping in the new year. We're racing sunset at this point. In the meantime, the customer came along and picked up what we just split.

rjwoelk · December 31, 2018, 06:08:16 PM

Here is how i do it. You could make a conveyor or just toss them into a bag that is on the holder . These bags hold hold one third cord each.

jimbarry · December 31, 2018, 06:41:12 PM

Handy, yes. But fr me those bags here cost CAD$20-$25 each. Add that to the price of the wood and processing costs, I'd be pricing at over CAD$300 for 128 cu ft (1 cord). I'd never make a sale as the local pricing is CAD$220-$250.

Stephen1 · December 31, 2018, 07:59:42 PM

Your skids are a good idea. instead of the strapping try shrink wrap. It works great we use it all the time. I have started to frame the skids with 1x3" oak and once full i just shrink wrap. So much easier.

jimbarry · December 31, 2018, 08:14:09 PM

Quote from: Stephen1 on December 31, 2018, 07:59:42 PM
... instead of the strapping try shrink wrap. ... So much easier.

I believe that it would be easier. But if the wood is green and being palletized for drying purposes, shrink wrap will cause problems (lack of air movement). At least that's my assumption.

lxskllr · December 31, 2018, 09:06:39 PM

Why do you think your straps failed; not enough tension? Seems like that should have held it together, but I've never tried moving a pallet of wood. If the strapping system isn't tightening enough, you could try rope and truckers hitches, and see if you can get it tighter. If that works, you can then decide on a more robust strapping system, or just go with cheap rope. A truckers hitch is quick to tie.

Ivan49 · December 31, 2018, 09:08:50 PM

Try some of that netting they use in gardens to keep birds and deer from eating you out of house and home

jimbarry · January 01, 2019, 05:48:06 AM

Quote from: lxskllr on December 31, 2018, 09:06:39 PM
Why do you think your straps failed; not enough tension? ...

Correct. That's the thing about stacked wood, when you move it, it shifts and the volume can decrease, which makes the strapping go slack.

Old Greenhorn · January 01, 2019, 09:40:14 AM

Quote from: jimbarry on December 31, 2018, 06:41:12 PM
Handy, yes. But fr me those bags here cost CAD$20-$25 each. Add that to the price of the wood and processing costs, I'd be pricing at over CAD$300 for 128 cu ft (1 cord). I'd never make a sale as the local pricing is CAD$220-$250.

What if you cahrged a $25. deposit for the bag. It would save the customer stacking time and when they re-order, they give you back the bag? AT least then the customer knows what the extra cost is for. Of course if you are wholesaling it gets trickier. Just a thought.

jimbarry · January 01, 2019, 10:02:04 AM

We tried deposits on the wood crates. Customers wanted crates of wood delivered for convenience. When we told them the refundable deposit charge, they scoffed. There's probably a few that might pay, but I don't think it would be enough to carry the cost of inventorying the bags. There's other issues as well, like how to deliver bags of wood. Boom truck is out of the question for us. Alternative is a mini skidsteer for loading and offloading. It all costs. I can see why other processors just stick to loose cord sales and delivery.

Tin Horse · January 01, 2019, 12:03:14 PM

For the last 2 years I've been palletizing my firewood for sales. About 33 bush cords this year. I build a crude rack out of 4- 40" x 48" pallets. Frame them up with waste lumber an an air nailer. Inside is 48"x48" x96". Put a top on it of tin/plywood/tarp. The downside is we hand stack it but it dries well and customers love because it's quantified. At delivery time the backhoe picks them up and simply dump into the dump trailer. Very little work at this time. The racks are then ready to re-fill. I realize the machinery/ equipment can be an expensive issue on costs. This system work for me. Without the lifting capacity I couldn't do it this way. Not sure what a green bush cord weights but it maxes the hoes FEL.
What I've learned is the actual processing is fast. I'ts all the work and time around that.

mike_belben · January 01, 2019, 12:42:57 PM

How are you unloading the crates at the customers site now?

I think if you setup two chains underneath in basket fashion near the log ends and ratchet the pile together crazy tight with ratchet binders [not snap binders as theyll just help you knock the pile over] then put your banding in the center, that it'll work. When you remove the chain binders the banding should keep the pile too compressed to fall apart. If one center band isnt enough switch to one chain and two edge bands.

I would build one U shaped box with a back wall to do this so that the chains just stay in it and draped over the sides, then i lay out the banding, stack wood into the chain/banding basket, cinch it up, crimp the bands, loosen the chains then use forks under the chain slack to hoist out of the box and onto a pallet for trasport, maybe even laying down to reduce the chance of dumping it.

If that dont work i guess id just commit to using slabwood or milling some firewood grade logs for crating.

Me personally i cant do better than $60 a facecord delivered. Sometimes i have to stack. I cant change the market so all i can do is reduce handling to improve my dollars per hour. The machines do the heavy lifting and i toss it into a single pile off the splitter. For now i measure by hand filling a custom skidsteer bucket 2x and dumping into trailer. The next stage of handling reduction will be a conveyor and trommel. scoop from pile and fill trailer to the top without touching any wood.

timbatrader · January 01, 2019, 03:20:04 PM

Quote from: jimbarry on December 31, 2018, 08:14:09 PM
Quote from: Stephen1 on December 31, 2018, 07:59:42 PM
... instead of the strapping try shrink wrap. ... So much easier.
I believe that it would be easier. But if the wood is green and being palletized for drying purposes, shrink wrap will cause problems (lack of air movement). At least that's my assumption.

Over here we have shrink wrap designed for wrapping onions which have been harvested and palletised has slits cut in it when it is stretched it makes a net as long as you only do a couple of wraps you get good ventilation and it holds a pallet together
Breathable stretch wrapping for pallet loads - Airofilm

Stephen1 · January 01, 2019, 03:59:05 PM

Quote from: timbatrader on January 01, 2019, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: jimbarry on December 31, 2018, 08:14:09 PM
Quote from: Stephen1 on December 31, 2018, 07:59:42 PM
... instead of the strapping try shrink wrap. ... So much easier.
I believe that it would be easier. But if the wood is green and being palletized for drying purposes, shrink wrap will cause problems (lack of air movement). At least that's my assumption.
Over here we have shrink wrap designed for wrapping onions which have been harvested and palletised has slits cut in it when it is stretched it makes a net as long as you only do a couple of wraps you get good ventilation and it holds a pallet together
Breathable stretch wrapping for pallet loads - Airofilm

This sounds good, i'll look for some for next year.
The shrink wrap is not a problem for us as we just wrap around the sides, the top is left open, sometimes plywood across the top.

jimbarry · January 01, 2019, 05:31:04 PM

Quote from: timbatrader on January 01, 2019, 03:20:04 PM
... shrink wrap designed for wrapping onions ...

Similar here to this I guess https://www.uline.ca/Product/Detail/S-9964/Netting/Stretch-Netting-Roll-20-x-3000 At 20" wide, would probably need about 30ft to wrap around a 32"x48"x36"H pallet of wood. If a person bought +8 rolls for price point, you've be looking at about $1 to wrap.

doc henderson · January 01, 2019, 08:56:57 PM

This is how I store and move my wood. have forks for my skid steer

Made the conveyor using a truck tarp gear reduction motor running off 12 volts. Libby in the foreground. wood drops in the basket. made lids to cover from the plastic insides.

mike_belben · January 01, 2019, 10:28:05 PM

Nice. Any more pics on the conveyor build?

doc henderson · January 01, 2019, 10:38:13 PM

I just happened to have those on my phone, and posting between sick kids (work). I can take some close ups later and maybe start a new thread. I have seen the v-trough before. It has a tongue on one end to tow in the yard. The truck tarp motor has worked well. Detachable chain. I charge it off the motor and batt. on the splitter, but have fleet wiring on front and back of my truck so it is able to work there as well. It has its own deep cycle batt. so it can work freestanding. The battery is between the wheels. happy to share as much as you guys want.

rjwoelk · January 02, 2019, 12:11:51 AM

Jim we charge a deposit of 15 on the bag and if they return it the next bag they get is a 10 $ credit. So we pay for the bag in 3 uses. Customers like it .pick up with a loader on their truck or trailer. We dont do any delivery. That is were we would lose money.

Tin Horse · January 02, 2019, 09:58:54 AM

I definitely agree with losing money on delivery. Many customers complain that no one wants to deliver any more.
I charge $30.00 and short runs. They don't get the costs associated with delivery and still don't like to pay it. A few do pick up to save 30 bucks and have regretted it . Then they understand.

jimbarry · January 02, 2019, 10:03:05 AM

I charge $1.25 a km (0.6 miles). So 100km (60miles) cost them $75.00.

hedgerow · January 02, 2019, 05:55:11 PM

Quote from: doc henderson on January 01, 2019, 10:38:13 PM
I just happened to have those on my phone, and posting between sick kids (work). I can take some close ups later and maybe start a new thread. I have seen the v-trough before. It has a tongue on one end to tow in the yard. The truck tarp motor has worked well. Detachable chain. I charge it off the motor and batt. on the splitter, but have fleet wiring on front and back of my truck so it is able to work there as well. It has its own deep cycle batt. so it can work freestanding. The battery is between the wheels. happy to share as much as you guys want.

You should start a build thread of your conveyor. There will be a lot of interest. Looks to be a nice set up. Hope everyone gets to feeling better. These big temp swings don't help.

doc henderson · January 02, 2019, 06:10:37 PM

I will do that. Just finished a 6 day stint of work. 12 hour shifts and 2 hour drive time. I saw 60 "sick" kids yesterday. Setting up you tube so I can include some video. but will try to get more pics for now.

warmhart · January 02, 2019, 09:19:21 PM

Jimbarry, New Guy here! I also want to palletize firewood, but need much smaller units, as I handle them
with a Dingo, and it has limited lift capacity, about 1/3 rd of a face cord.
I don't think there is a way to bind a rectangle or square with straps, because the tension
in on the corners, and that forces the flat sides out, making a circle. Probably is a way to
use boards to keep the sides flat, but the rigging would confound me!
Like you, we want a defined quantity that the customer can see.
We usually have customers pick up small quantities, as we are in a suburban location,
in the deep South, near the Gulf Coast.
Since our customers
are buying "entertainment wood", not actually heating their homes with it, they will pay more.
We've built racks from steel tubing for most sales, holding 1/8 of a FC, and modified cheap, Chinese 4' racks for our "quantity" 1/3 FC sales.
We did try the netting (also used for hay bales), and it held well.
We split, then store and dry at another location. Our hangup is handling the sticks so many times! However, we get so much more for a cord, it's difficult to complain.

doc henderson · January 02, 2019, 10:00:03 PM

welcome to the forum warmheart. I am not sure how you process your wood, but if you could get flat boards in the dimensions that you want and then put strapping around?. it may loosen as the wood dries. so not sure how long the wood is but 1/3 face cord 2.66 x 4 feet? I assume the wood is about 16 inches long? so about 10.66 sq. ft. on face. Or a circle about 44 inches in diameter. If you make a loose crate held together with strap, you can include the wood as burnable. you may be better off as you are doing with netted stretch wrap.