Case 685 Hydraulic Problem

Kim_Ked · November 03, 2020, 05:23:13 PM

Hey Folks.
Had an issue come up today with my Case685. Its a 4WD, 1995 Cab model.

Hydraulic oil changed, filter replaced and checked daily!
Tractor has not missed a beat in the almost 2 years that Iv owned it. My Dad and I exclusively haul wood with it almost daily. We haul a small Patu loader with dual wheels. The tractor really never gets worked hard at all.
This afternoon we took a a load of fuel back to the harvester and come out just great. After unloading the empty fuel tank in the yard we were folding the boom back up when the Tractor made a bi of a pop and then now we have no hydraulics. Not just the auxiliary lines that run the loader, but everything. No steering, no front loader arms, the arms on the back of the tractor wont go up or down either.

It doesn't even sound a bit like the hydraulics are even trying to work, nor does it labor the engine to "engage" something like it normally would. If I were on any other machine, I would almost say that the hydraulic pump is no longer turning. However, I know nothing about a tractor. I don't see where there is any external hydraulic pump. I'm expecting to see a belt off, or a coupling broke, or perhaps a clutch somewhere that engages the pump has broken ?????

It does seem that the transmission still wants to move the tractor just fine though. I can't really move it as the loader legs are down, but I can wiggle enough to tell that it engages when I let the clutch up a bit in forward and reverse.

Now its sitting broken in a mud hole blocking the driveway..... At least its not in the woods.

Any suggestions on where I should start troubleshooting or where to look for the prime mover connection to the hydraulic pump?

Thanks

mike_belben · November 03, 2020, 07:34:00 PM

Sounds like a broken coupler or snapped pump shaft.

chevytaHOE5674 · November 03, 2020, 10:44:38 PM

Pump is in the rear end sump iirc left hand side by the filter. Driven off a gear on a tapered shaft with keyway. I would get a service book and dig in.

If you need to replace the pump make sure you get the right one. If it's like the 695's there's a few options for manufacture, gpm, etc. And they don't all swap for each other.

hilltopper46 · November 04, 2020, 11:20:53 PM

I think you will find the pump is under a valve plate on the left hand side of the tractor. It's the plate that the filter sits on top of. It is gear driven, and this wouldn't be the first time the gear sheared the shaft off on the pump. That tractor changed pump output by changing gear size with a corresponding spacer which moved the pump into the drive gear when a smaller driven gear was used. That to say to make sure to get the correct gear or your hydraulics may be slower down after reassembly. You can find parts online, but your best best is to find a Case IH dealer with a IH history and tell them what you have. If you can, take the old parts in with you.

Oliver05262 · November 05, 2020, 06:48:05 AM

It sounds to me like the center hub on the pressure plate that drives the outer, hollow clutch shaft is either broken loose or stripped out. IIRC, there is a plate on the bottom of the clutch housing that you can remove and maybe get a look at this area. Not an uncommon failure, and the aftermarket suppliers even make parts for this, if that tells you anything.
This tractor has an independent PTO, and this outer shaft (IPTO shaft) drives the pumps as well as the power take off.

Kim_Ked · November 06, 2020, 04:22:56 AM

Quote from: Oliver05262 on November 05, 2020, 06:48:05 AM
It sounds to me like the center hub on the pressure plate that drives the outer, hollow clutch shaft is either broken loose or stripped out. IIRC, there is a plate on the bottom of the clutch housing that you can remove and maybe get a look at this area. Not an uncommon failure, and the aftermarket suppliers even make parts for this, if that tells you anything.
This tractor has an independent PTO, and this outer shaft (IPTO shaft) drives the pumps as well as the power take off.

Ok. Where is the "Clutch Cover"? Will I be able to tell if this is the issue by removing the Hydraulic Pump? Guy at the dealership thinks that the keyway snapped off on the pump shaft. Hopefully I could inspect both by removing the pump.
I havn't been able work at this yet. Iv been stuck at this *DanG food plant all week and by the time I get home its pitch black outside. I came in the last few days at 5AM so I can hopefully leave early today and spend this afternoon tearing it apart. It would be nice to get some parts ordered today before they close.

Oliver05262 · November 06, 2020, 07:04:30 AM

I think there is a plate on the bottom of the clutch housing that if you take it off, you can look directly at a portion of the clutch. These tractors have a dry clutch, and you are able to inspect the clutch without major disassembly.

Kim_Ked · November 07, 2020, 05:14:23 AM

Well folks.
I got it apart.
The issue was easy to find.....
there is a large crack all the way around the body of the pump. I'd say the bearing blew apart inside the pump. I'm going to pull the pump apart to see but as of so far, it seems no pieces are missing. It just cracked.
New one in the way!

Thanks for all the advice folks.

Oliver05262 · November 07, 2020, 07:38:34 AM

I'm glad you found the problem. You'll be back in business soon.

Kim_Ked · November 20, 2020, 04:53:50 AM

Well the new pump, valve kit and filter is in...
All works well. Now I cant get the *DanG tire back on. I bet its over 1000lbs.
Had to walk my excavator/harvester out of the woods just to get the rim on the studs. I just got the excavator out last night, now I'm back working today in the food plants so hopefully tonight it will finally all come together..... Working late and getting dark at 4;30 certainly adds its share of challenges, and danger!
Had 3 guys wrestling with the other night but no way, the tractor is sitting too odd to make it all line up.

I'm stuck for hauling on my piece now anyway. At least 2 loads of stud wood down again but its way to soft to haul over the section of my road that crosses the field. The woods is great to get around in, just the field is to soft. Next summer Ill be extending my road right across it.
So Ill take the next couple weeks till freeze up and spend some TLC $$ on my Arbro 1000. All new brass sliding pieces, a couple pins and lines and a new flow restrict or for the tilt up solenoid.

I'm curious if any of you use quick connects for your big attachments. In the manual for my Arbro it says specifically to NOT USE Quick Connects. The risk is to great of one blowing off and damaging the machine. My question is. Has anybody found a reliable quick connect that can never come apart without human interaction? Id love to put my bucket on while the machine is home. However, its a mother beep to have to uncouple the big lines with all the wrenches and the fluid lost and such. Iv switched it over half a dozen times in the last year and its getting old really quick. Not to mention costly as I loose (catch in a bucket) a lot of fluid each time. Other than that, changing it from a digger to a harvester only takes a few minutes of aligning booms and driving pins.

mike_belben · November 20, 2020, 07:35:30 AM

The problem is finding full flow quick connect with internal check valves. The coupler check valve probably drops 50% of your GPM. Without the check valve theres no point.

If its possible to reroute or extend your hoses so that the fittings break at the highest point in the system, you wont lose any fluid.

What is your pump pressure? They do make high PSI alloy ball valves if you cant raise the disconnect height.

Glad you got your pump changed out. 8)

Kim_Ked · November 20, 2020, 12:19:13 PM

Exactly, the check valve is the whole point.
So I don't have to go out with the big wrenches every time and get in a big mess of fluid dripping and catch pans. Plus if its windy out.... eeghh..

Is what it is though. Not much I can do about it. Breaking lines at the highest point would only mean doing the same thing, just from an extension ladder, plus its steel line all the way down the boom, so I would still have to break and cap at the bottom no matter what I do.

Just a thought. There is a real nice Doosan, 3000 hrs asking $65K not to far from me. 15 ton. Some sweet! Ill be looking for something like this in a years time. I get my old harvester and Daewoo paid off, I want a newer one like that, just to be a digger. One can dream right... We want a piece on the house, a newer truck, a new well, but I want a new digger to. someday.

mike_belben · November 20, 2020, 01:58:39 PM

Well whats your system PSI and how many gallons do you lose per changeout? How often do you change attachments? How much $ per pail of your fluid?

We can figure the ROI on some spendy ball valves.. See how long to break even on fluid savings.

:D

mike_belben · November 20, 2020, 02:00:09 PM

Or another though.. Put Y manifolds on your existing joints and run doubled hoses with big high flow skid steer quick connects to get your necessary GPM. Theyre proud of em though.. Im sure you know.

chevytaHOE5674 · November 20, 2020, 06:08:07 PM

First thing would be to know your pressure and gpm?

Look for a good hydraulic shop or big rig shop. Couplers on a wet kit semi often are rated for 80gpm and 3000psi. They get spendy at 150 bucks a piece. But doesn't take much lost oil at 50 bucks a pail to offset that cost.

mike_belben · November 23, 2020, 08:00:05 AM

Wetline truck couplers are gonna be based on parker 6100, aeroquip 5100 or snap-tite 78 series or cheaper clones of those. Theyre an awesome coupler but 3000psi is max. 1.5" can flow up to 50gpm.

I bet the oilfields have some intense QDs at intense prices.

chevytaHOE5674 · November 23, 2020, 10:45:40 AM

I have a set of 1.5" Parker 6100 couplers in the shop for a loader trailer and they are rated for 3000psi working 9000 burst and 79gpm according to the box specs. They are affordable at 150 bucks a set.

If you need more flow than that or higher pressure rating parker makes them but they get spendy. Buddy did some on a piece of equipment and each half of the coupler was like 300 bucks.

mike_belben · November 23, 2020, 02:02:40 PM

Hmmm.. Thatd be good. Steel or brass?

I downloaded a vendor PDF that lists the 6100 parker at 175bar in 1.5inch. Which is 25xx psi. Same for brass snaptite 78 in 1.5" from snap-tites pdf. They spec a series range of 3000psi operating and 4500 "proof" pressure but thats for the smaller sizes of the 78 series. The bigger a conduit the lower its burst psi.

Where do you buy yours from?