Indiana stumpage

[timberking]

Just learned my aunt is thinking of selling some timber off the farm located at Frankfurt/Clinton Co.  I assume it will be walnut, cherry, and maple.  Just trying to get a handle on whats going on.  Apparently the buyer is talking a 50/50 split.  I got red flags going off in my head!  Give me some ballpark numbers.  I don't know if the pay is by scale or the ton.

[Firewoodjoe]

A lot of factors come in to play. I'm assuming u think 50/50 is to his benefit? Well if it's smaller bolt wood or pulp that's high. If it's veneer he could do better. Small acreage vs some volume,access..... I could go on and on. Maybe someone from that area will chime in. Good luck:)

[jwilly3879]

In my area we have been doing 50/50 on logs and $10/cord on hardwood pulp. 55% or 60% to the LO on veneer.

[thecfarm]

On my first cutting here I went 60/40. I got the 60. I had some nice white pine here and still have a few.

[Lakeerieloghomes]

This issue comes up time and again nationwide. I recently received a call from a local man whose grandmother made a deal with a logging company. The company paid $40,000 cash upfront prior to cutting. She signed the contract and they proceeded to cut and skid. The logging company cut the marked trees and operated within the contract. The land owners grandson was present for the loggers timber auction on the landing. The timber sale totaled around $475,000.  He contacted me asking what recourse he had. My answer: none. It is unfortunate that 1) a landowner did not hire a forester to protect their timber assets and know up front what he/she had. 2) they took the first cash offer that came along and did not get other estimates. 3) the timber company clearly did not make a fair offer. Though, not illegal, just not ethical. Even with a 10% fee to the forester and a split agreement with the loggin company. She would have made 3-4 times the 40k cash offer. It is unlikely that an average land owner will be able to properly estimate timber and it's value accurately. An unbiased forester can also aid the timber harvester in reassuring the land owner of the actual value on the stump. How many times have guys in the industry arrived to a wood lot that is small, trees that are damaged or a species of little value? By not knowing the value of timber a landowner can get ripped off and also expect the price of gold for a few trees. Recently, I had a landowner want me to purchase a half million bd ft of pine. He wanted half the timber, all debris and stumps removed, a 2 acre pond built, hydro seeded, and a pump house for his camp built... Then, also figured a few ten thousand dollars remaining would come his way.  Be an informed consumer, hire a forester, and work with reputable companies.

[Cedarman]

It would have to be fairly low grade hardwood to sell at 50/50.  Indiana grows some of the finest hardwood in the country.  Time to get a district forester to look at the woods and make recommendations.  This is free information.  The forester will not give a value, but will give good advice as to some consulting foresters available to pick from.
Do you trust a cattle buyer to tell you what your cows are worth?

[BargeMonkey]

 Both foresters and loggers "can" be crooks. I buy alot of lots upfront, and for cash so I can understand paying less upfront on a woodlot. Honesty comes into play, get a few opinions and listen to all the information. Certain lots pay less because there is more involved, roadwork, bridges, multiple headers. Foresters have an almost worse reputation than loggers around here, bribes are accepted by quite a few of them so watch the one that insists on 1 logger only. But remember if you put it out to bid, you get just whats in the contract and not 1 cent more, not 1 more water bar, not 1 more hay bale, nothing. A private sale with a small logger who seems honest works out better 90% of the time, its more a trust thing than anything else.

[Kemper]

Agreed on all counts.

Both foresters and loggers "can" be crooks. I buy alot of lots upfront, and for cash so I can understand paying less upfront on a woodlot. Honesty comes into play, get a few opinions and listen to all the information. Certain lots pay less because there is more involved, roadwork, bridges, multiple headers. Foresters have an almost worse reputation than loggers around here, bribes are accepted by quite a few of them so watch the one that insists on 1 logger only. But remember if you put it out to bid, you get just whats in the contract and not 1 cent more, not 1 more water bar, not 1 more hay bale, nothing. A private sale with a small logger who seems honest works out better 90% of the time, its more a trust thing than anything else.

[timberking]

Thanks for all the responses.  I understand all aspects mentioned.  Distance prevents me from being hands on.  I just need some numbers.  I spoke to a pallet mill that was paying .28/ft.  I have requested a copy of the contract.

[OneWithWood]

For those of you that sell or buy on splits, what is the procedure that allows the landowner to have some faith in the numbers?  How do you prevent high grading?  I assume when selling on splits the buyer selects the trees. 
Timberking, do your family a favor and hire a consulting forester to handle the marketing and sale of the trees.  You can find a list of Indiana foresters at  www.ifwoa.org
You might also want to look at www.callb4ucut.com

[jwilly3879]

The job we are working is on a percentage basis with the timber marked by a forester that the LO pays an hourly rate.

Other jobs we have done there has been no forester, just references from previous jobs. We are more than happy to walk the property with the owner and explain what will happen and why.

The forester on this job is always asking if we would like to do other jobs for him. They are smaller lots and the LO's don't want big equipment on the job. We have a TJ 240 and a loader so we can work with a smaller footprint than a big jobber.