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New help

Started by Bruno of NH, January 09, 2021, 08:52:21 AM

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Bruno of NH

I hope I don't jinx myself.
I have all new help at the mill.
My cousin Bill , very smart and knows how to do lots of things. He was a mechanic for a long time. He 66 years old and has been sick for a long time. The Docs got him right now and likes the work building his strength back.
Tim a guy I have know for years. Has been a equipment operator his whole life he's my age 55. 10 months ago got in a car crash and almost died. No one will give him a job because he limps bad.
Screws and rods in his leg and hip. He can run the skid steer like I haven't seen.
Jeremy a fireman and ambulance emt. He works 2 days a week. He's the muscle. Supper smart hard worker and can emt all us old guys when we go down  :D
Our first full week we got so much done. Steady work,no phones,cigarettes, leaving for lunch, honey girl issues.
Man what a breath of fresh air.
I will lose Jeremy in the spring,he does his own landscape business then on his days off.
I will ask if any guys at his station might be looking for spring/summer work.
No more smoking or phones or honey girl stuff for me ever.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

firefighter ontheside

Sounds like a good situation Bruno.  Young firefighters are often needing something to do on days off.  Working at your place would probably appeal to a few.  I would do it if I wasn't very far away and didn't have my own sawmill business.  Lawn and landscaping is very popular among firefighters as a side gig.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Bruno of NH

Just need to find a Saturday person for 7:00 to noon.
I have lots of Saturday pickups.
And I like working Saturday mornings .
I have for my whole self employment. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Bruno of NH

Jeremy has his act together. 
Great kid he's my daughter's age.
I know both his parents and families. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Bruno of NH

My other help worried more what honey girl was doing while at work.
To mood changes durring the day for me.
3 Saturday's ago he chest bumped me. Sheila called the cops before I killed him in my yard.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Bruno of NH

25 years ago Bruno came out.
My knees work great for 10 minutes while he got chased to his care.
Swore at Sheila lucky he didn't leave in an ambulance. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

WV Sawmiller

Bruno,

   If I'm reading this right what you are suggesting is if you need good, dependable, experienced help you need to look for a bunch of old crippled up guys nobody else will hire. :D

   Congrats on the new team. It sounds like they mesh well together and enjoy the work and your stress level should be way down now. ;D 

   It is hard to comprehend that some strapping HS student (Note I was politically correct and did not specify gender because, honestly, in this case it would not matter) who would jump all a Saturday morning gig like that. You might talk to the local HS coaches and shop teacher, if they have such at your school and see if they have suggestions or will put the word out. When I was 15-18 y/o I'd have loved that kind of opportunity to earn some spending money and spend time with and learn from a bunch of older, experienced guys. Maybe I was wired wrong that way. ???
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

barbender

It's a sweet experience to have a good crew working together! 
Too many irons in the fire

richhiway

 

 My future helper stopped by the woodlot yesterday. He is my grand nephew. Got to break them in young.
Lack of work ethic is a huge problem in this country. I have 25 men at my day job and they are all good guys but some of the younger ones definitely lack drive and direction.
I was mentored by good men,and try to do the same. I aspired to emulate my elders but I don't see that anymore.
Glad you found a good crew,Bruno.
Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

KenMac

Congratulations on finally finding a good crew Bruno!! I'm a one man part time show, but I do understand how disheartening it can be trying to be productive with less than helpful employees. Good luck in the future! 8)
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

handhewn

Less than a thousand people in this small town. Can't find any good workers. Everybody just wants to grow pot and get at least $20 per hour as they slouch around looking for excuses for not working. >:(

mike_belben

Glad to hear it bruno. I hope you get a good head of steam built up and sail this one off into the horizon.    Now we get to see how long you are a good enough boss to keep them.  ;D


Always remember not to insult or disrespect your help.  A lot of bosses lost me over a stupid comment. And ive done a lot of horrible, filthy, hard and dangerous work for people that treated me right.  It aint just about money.  Bring donuts. Ask about the wife and kids.  Make time to listen. Dont look at your phone when they want to talk to you. When you lose your temper and bark at someone, or somehow embarass them in front of others, privately apologize after youve cooled down.  Dont just let it fade away. Resentment builds up if not addressed.  Good workers got options.  They get poached quick if you arent someone they like being around.  
Praise The Lord

Bruno of NH

I feel I'm a good boss.
This guy got an hour lunch everyday.
2 day online Dr appointments
3 days online AA meetings.
I would never ask someone to do something I wouldn't do.
When paying someone paying attention to you work should be the norm. 
How many phone calls and text are acceptable a day ?
How many cigarettes smoked when asked not to smoke in equipment and around the mill.
How many times the fuel cap left off every fuel can and fuel tank ?
If someone asks for money to buy lunch or gas they get it.
I will buy them breakfast or lunch if they need it.
If they need firewood they get it.
Brand new chainsaw you fill gas and oil and don't put oil cap on. Run saw without oil twice in a row it burns up new bar.
Pick up a guy in the morning and bring him back home every day. 2 hours of my time every day. I don't hold it over there head. I do it to help them. But at what point is it time for them to help ones self?
Smash a rear tail light out of customers truck. I ask be more carefull please. He didn't sleep well because of honey girl that night. I say stay home next time please. 
And get told to #*@&  #**.
I don't know how I could be any better to him.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Magicman

I abandoned a very good job yesterday morning because the customer could not find help and could not do it all himself.  It takes two good tailgunners to keep me in the saddle.  If it's a small job I don't mind grabbing a board or slab, but I can't/won't continually do it. 

Simply put, I have too many good jobs on the book to be wasting my time with anything less.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mike_belben

im not trying to pick on you at all bruno, i already know you're too patient with these losers and their flaws but i think you're in for a whole new chapter in your management game with the new crowd.  best of luck with it, sincerely.
Praise The Lord

hersnsh#590

Bruno:  X2 on the cell phones.

Dale
TK 1600, small sugaring operation, a bench full of J'reds, a tired ford 1710, new to us JD 5065e, 2 Honda 4 whlrs, a Can-Am 580 on tracks, and a very understanding wife.

SawyerTed

Glad you have a good crew now.  Hopefully a good crew will attract other good replacements when the time comes. 

I've found company policy makes things easier to manage.  For example my company policy is I don't fall trees.  When I tell a customer it's company policy, it saves a lot of explaining.

Company employee policies/rules might include break times and length.  

Cell phone policy when and where they can be used

When and where smoking is permitted 

Safety equipment usage

Consequences for damage, improper  maintenance, improper equipment operation, safety violations etc. 

Attendance expectations, call in expectations when absent 

Drug and alcohol policy. 

There's others I'm sure. 

Have employees sign the policy form. 

If you have a mature crew with life experiences right now, sitting down with them to discuss setting policy might not be a bad idea. If they are reasonable, they'll appreciate helping you.  You just reserve the final decisions on policy.  It is your company to run how you want.  Having company rules makes it easier on you too, employees will know what the expectations are. 

A big old policy book is probably overkill but a one or two page workplace policy or rules form is enough.  The thing is as boss you have to be consistent in enforcing the policies.  Don't write them down if you can't. Employees will respect you for reasonable rules that you enforce fairly and consistently.

Hire a high school helper from Agriculture Ed or Carpentry with some computer skills for Saturday mornings and after school.  He or she can help get the forms ready and later can help around the mill yard and with customers. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

terrifictimbersllc

When I visited Liberia, at the sawmill there was a bucket with cell phones in it. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Bruno of NH

Quote from: mike_belben on January 09, 2021, 02:18:15 PM
im not trying to pick on you at all bruno, i already know you're too patient with these losers and their flaws but i think you're in for a whole new chapter in your management game with the new crowd.  best of luck with it, sincerely.
I know Mike
Sorry for the rant
You do care
After I have thought about it .
It was probably something I should have been reminded off.
I enjoy working and forget sometime folks have to do it out of necessity. 
Bruno
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Southside

Congratulations Bruno. Happy to hear it is coming together for you. @WV Sawmiller here I can't hire anyone under 18 to do ANYTHING on the sawmill side of the business. Not even to clean up when nothing is working. It's not like it used to be. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

WV Sawmiller

@Southside , is that because of your insurance restrictions or some state or local regulation? I thought most states allowed 16 y/o to work.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

SawyerTed

A registered apprentice can work in certain industries under age 18.  Your state may vary.  Getting a young person in a registered apprenticeship often can be arranged through your local high school or community college.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Southside

Virginia law, zero exceptions for anything sawmill related. Now I can put a 15 year old on a JD 620 with a hand clutch and PTO wheel 18" from his foot running a disc harrow, but pick up stickers after hours in the mill building - nope. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

SwampDonkey

Hey, up here on the brushing crew (clearing saw work) we have a school bus driver on the end of the saw for a few hrs a day. Anyone that wants to work, will swing a clearing saw. ;D Had a welder, worked an 8 hr day, after work and weekends made more money on a clearing saw than welding paid. :D

Younger folks, I have not seen many under 25 stick around a full summer. One young feller, his dad thinned, dependable for every day, but not a big cutter. Should be running circles around me. His saw is usually turning, but not moving too swift. ;D I mean when an old fart like me can cut 0.9 ha a day on the same ground to his 2 days to cut the same, come on, get the lead out boy!! :D

Neighbor's kids been running 4-wheelers, tractor, skid steer, all under 12. What laws? :D

Cousin hired some young 'colony' types under 25 to cut Christmas trees in November one year. Called about 2 days in and said they have to help dad harvest carrots. Now this is on frozen hard ground, long after carrot harvest. :D :D

If it weren't for being pathetic, you couldn't laugh. Makes you wonder who is paying the bills and buying the milk. Maybe it is coming from them mystery hale bales on the border. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Peter Drouin

I get a lot of trades in and all the help is over 50. ::)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

SawyerTed

Quote from: Southside on January 09, 2021, 08:20:21 PM
Virginia law, zero exceptions for anything sawmill related. Now I can put a 15 year old on a JD 620 with a hand clutch and PTO wheel 18" from his foot running a disc harrow, but pick up stickers after hours in the mill building - nope.
It's been a while since I worked with apprenticeship programs, so I went back and looked it up.
It is US Department of Labor law and states have adopted it mostly.  Less than 18 can't work in logging sawmill or forestry work. So I stand corrected on the 16 and 17 year olds in a sawmill related apprenticeship.  It's interesting that there are only a dozen or so industries listed as hazardous and exclude 16 and 17 year olds. Explosives related work, ship breaking, demolition are also listed as hazardous. 
For 18 year olds and above, apprenticeship is a good way to hire and train workers in a sawmill business.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Stephen1

I will have to check on those laws up here.
 I have been hiring a 14 YO to help me out on Saturday mornings for 2 hrs. He comes in sweeps the floor, fills the humidifiers, organizes my office, work bench, sawmill work box, He has a little OCD in him! He is even starting to sell wood to my Saturday customers. I am hoping to bring him on my portable sawmill jobs next summer. His favourite time is when I saw on Saturday mornings and he gets to help. 
I am putting him on the actual payroll next week, pay WSIB insurance, payroll tax and he gets a raise, from $10 cash to $13.10 . He is estatic. 
His dad is a contractor, hard worker and has instilled the same in his children. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

terrifictimbersllc

I guess i don't have to worry.  I wouldn't know how to hire someone regardless of age.  
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

KenMac

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on January 10, 2021, 11:26:36 AM
I guess i don't have to worry.  I wouldn't know how to hire someone regardless of age.  
I really hope that is a skill I never have to learn.
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

Crossroads

I feel for ya Bruno, at this time I only do portable jobs and the customers supply the tail gunners. Most of the time I end up helping pull slabs and load logs, more than I should, but it's the way I'm wired. If I'm not making a cut or doing some maintenance, I just can't stand there and watch someone else work. Some jobs, I'm very happy to just finish. Others, I wish I had enough work to hire the helper full time. 

I'm glad you found some guys that want to work. 
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

mike_belben

Quote from: Peter Drouin on January 10, 2021, 06:06:43 AM
I get a lot of trades in and all the help is over 50. ::)
Why work hard for $15/hr when your youtube/ig/patreon/tik tok can make $50 at home on the couch?
Praise The Lord

B.C.C. Lapp

Interesting thread to me because I see so many employees come and go both at the saw mill and in the woods.
That cell phone issue is a hot one for me.    A guy on the clock shouldn't be checking his phone all the time.   At the mill they tell the guys to give the office phone number to their families in case of emergency and the office will send someone right out to tell them to call home.  That eliminates that excuse. 
  Also happy to see some older guys getting some work.   Ive had some foresters look at me and my partner with raised eyebrows when they first meet us because we are a little older than some loggers.  He is 65 and runs the skidder or dozer and I'm 56 and I cut.  But they never say any thing again when the logs start hitting the landing.
  
Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf.

WV Sawmiller

@Southside ,

   I don't know if the laws have changed since I was a teenager (Back before the earth's crust finished cooling) but my first paying job was when I was 17 at a Boise Cascade Plywood plant in N. Fla. I had gone with my older brother that morning to seek gainful employment with a highway construction project in Pensacola 20 miles further away. They were ready to hire both of us till they checked our birthdates and realized I was not 18 and their insurance would not let me work there so I left my brother and stopped at Boise Cascade on the way home and they hired me on the spot. He was working 40 hours a week and making $1.75/hr and I was working about 60+ hours a week on the spreader team making plywood and getting $3.30/hr (It was one of the higher paid jobs in the plant at the time). Minimum wage was $1.65 back then. I think they hired 8 of us that week and I was the only one to finish the summer and I would even come in on clean up on weekends till January or so while driving a school bus and going to Jr College. I will readily say that was the hardest work I have ever done. I doubled over on the green end a few hours one day and realized I was on the best job in the plant on the spreader. I still don't see how anybody stands up to that kind of work in that heat and conditions.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Resonator

Many years ago I worked as seasonal driver for a Christmas tree grower, who hired two groups of people for the help. The first were immigrants from "south of the border", who spoke little English, but worked hard and were grateful to make way more than they could back home. The other group were prisoners from the local jail who were allowed out on daily work release. They were picked up by the boss each morning and returned back each night. If any of them didn't perform up to standards, they were sent back to jail, where there were more waiting to take their place. Often the boss assigned a helper for the day to help me load and unload the truck, and I decided it was better for me to learn a few Spanish phrases, rather than worry about whether the guy next to me was wearing an ankle monitor and what his priors were.  :D
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

richhiway

Quote from: Magicman on January 09, 2021, 01:31:19 PM
I abandoned a very good job yesterday morning because the customer could not find help and could not do it all himself.  It takes two good tailgunners to keep me in the saddle.  If it's a small job I don't mind grabbing a board or slab, but I can't/won't continually do it.  

Simply put, I have too many good jobs on the book to be wasting my time with anything less.
MM. I was self employed for over 20 years. The best business advice I could give is when to say NO.
Good jobs are a pleasure, bad ones just turn worse.
Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

Magicman

That "no" was to the ~200 log job that I started this past Tuesday.  I sawed ½ day Tuesday and sawed 'till 4:00 Wednesday sawing 3286 bf.  Rain Thursday, and I moved the sawmill home Friday.  That job would have easily made $6-8K+.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

   Any likelihood the guy will get acceptable/dependable help and you will resume it? I assume he has dropped to the bottom of the waiting list if not completely off the list and, at a minimum will have to wait his turn again.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

I had sawn for this guy in June, 2018, and swore to myself that I would never go back.  He promised help then that never happened.  This time he promised help but I tailed all of the slabs and lumber Tuesday.  Wednesday I carried Grandson, Ben to help him with the tailing.  What happened was that I tailed with Ben while he did something else.  :-X

Nope, I am done with him and will not go back.  There are enough good jobs and good customers out there for me to be dealing with anything less.  
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Peter Drouin

Quote from: Magicman on January 10, 2021, 09:21:38 PM
I had sawn for this guy in June, 2018, and swore to myself that I would never go back.  He promised help then that never happened.  This time he promised help but I tailed all of the slabs and lumber Tuesday.  Wednesday I carried Grandson, Ben to help him with the tailing.  What happened was that I tailed with Ben while he did something else.  :-X

Nope, I am done with him and will not go back.  There are enough good jobs and good customers out there for me to be dealing with anything less.  


I could have told you that from the pic you posted. A waste of time. When you come up to a job and the customer is in a mess and you have done him before he knows better. Did he pay you?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Magicman

He was doing a good job moving the logs and keeping the sawmill fed but I can not make production if I have to tail lumber/slabs.  I have never presented an invoice that went unpaid.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SwampDonkey

We've worked guys on the brushing crew until they were ready for retirement. Most are glad to set the saw down by age 65 and getting that pension. Can't blame them for that. ;D We have one fella that turned 65 this year and says he's coming back this summer. ;)

I seen one of the mills run their own crew along the highway on different lots. They supplied wheels and saws/gas. Probably 20 in that bunch. They aren't covering much ground. Trust me, they ain't work'n much. And the mill, by law, has to at least pay them min wage, if they show up. :D With this pandemic, I don't know where the mill will get 70 new clearing saws for all them 'new' jobs. Hard to come by right now. They are on freehold land, so mill pays, but I'm wondering if the mill has government wage subsidies. Been known to happen in welding shops.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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