Winch options

[Tin Horse]

So I've added to the logging toys. Recently ordered a highway forwarder with grapple. JMS 170 grapple on the 14000lbs trailer. I have the option for them to add a hydraulic 4000lbs winch which I want. It's mast mounted. For pulling height I like but question mechanical strength. They provide very little info on it other than 4000lbs at 100' out, and down to 3000lbs closer in. Why would it reduce pull ? I'm thinking it may be better to install an electric winch that would be much heavier but electric 12 volt.
Wondering if anyone else runs a similar system and more knowledgeable opinions.
Thanks
Mike. 

[Ljohnsaw]

At 100' out, the spool is probably empty so the small diameter has greater mechanical advantage then when it gets a couple layers of cable on it.  The further from the center (axle) the cable is, there greater the leverage it has against the motor/gearing.  All winches give the value of pull on the empty spool.

[mike_belben]

Yup, thats all it is.  Effective diameter of the cable drum.  Wont matter hydraulic or electric. 

[mudfarmer]

Some electric winches have a crap duty cycle, watch out for that.

[Tin Horse]

Thanks guys for the help. Yup that makes sense to me. I run a FX 90 Wallenstien winch on the back of my tractor. It pulls but I've seen how quickly a log can snag and stop. So I question the pulling power of this small winch. Mounted high at about 9' up should help though.
Thanks again.

[PoginyHill]

My vote would be a hydraulic winch. Much faster than electric. I used a 14,000lb hydraulic winch with two speeds on an arch I built. Works like a charm. (high speed is probably half the rated pull). I think 4,000lb is kind of light, but might be safer with the winch that high up and the potential to pull over the trailer if pulling from the side.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Hydraulic gets my vote. Better duty cycle. And no solinoids or controller to crap out or get misplaced.

[Tin Horse]

Great . Thanks everyone for the input. This is what's great about this forum. My time to add the winch was limited so I've gone ahead and added it to the trailer grapple package. Can't see not having it for a road unit. It's being built in Quebec so hope lock downs don't happen again.

[mike_belben]

My vote would be a hydraulic winch. Much faster than electric. I used a 14,000lb hydraulic winch with two speeds on an arch I built. Works like a charm. (high speed is probably half the rated pull). I think 4,000lb is kind of light, but might be safer with the winch that high up and the potential to pull over the trailer if pulling from the side.

Your arch is impressive.  Would you say you can drag more bd ft with the arch than just with the wallenstein?  If so what percent more would you guess?  Ie.. Was it worth the effort in hindsight and do you choose to use the arch often?

[PoginyHill]

Would you say you can drag more bd ft with the arch than just with the wallenstein? If so what percent more would you guess? Ie.. Was it worth the effort in hindsight and do you choose to use the arch often?

I would say yes. Have not tried to measure potential capacity of each, but with the Wallenstein I've been limited by either how much the winch can lift or the 3-point hitch can lift - to get twitch off the ground (70 hp tractor - both limits are very close, so the winch and tractor are well-matched). The limit with the arch is either physical space for the stems to fit between the wheels or traction of the puller. For both I skid twitches using the main line - not hung on the frame. In practice, I'd guess the arch can haul maybe 25% more - obviously depends on length of the trees. I built my winch before I had the tractor - my only hauler was a Case 310 dozer. Used it for 5+ years like that. I prefer the Wallenstein only because it is much more maneuverable in the woods. I did use my winch with the tractor before buying the Wallenstein. Worked equally well as with the dozer. But did have traction limits, even with chains.

[mike_belben]

Good info, thank you.  


Id like to eventually do a walking beam grapple loader with a winch for behind the dozer. Leave the mess in the woodlot and load from trailer to truck.