Portable Pricing

[Maplewalnut]

Happy New Years Eve to all of you.  I am fairly new to the forum but I have been a long time reader and value the knowledge here on this site.  As the year approaches its end it has me doing a bit of soul searching for how to improve things for next year.

I started a part time sawmill business about a year and a half ago that retails hardwood and mills solid wood moldings.  My Woodmizer LT-50 is a stationary mill, but customer sawing jobs are few and far between.  So I have been contemplating putting the saw on the road. 

I would like to ask you guys your thoughts on the pros and cons of portable sawing.   Also I am wondering a bit about pricing portable work.  Things like mobilization fees, set up fees, what you charge for sawing, charge by the hour or BF?  Do you do pre job sight inspections?  Do you charge for mileage and time for multi day jobs (to and from the saw)?  Any advice would be appreciated.

May God bless you and your families in 2024!

[SawyerTed]

Happy New Year to you too!

Portable milling can be a lot of fun.  Meeting new people is interesting and sawing a variety of logs at different sites presents plenty of problem solving opportunities. 

It can be difficult and challenging when the customer isn't prepared, fails to get enough help and/or lacks equipment to move logs when needed.

Most of what I do is portable milling.  I charge a travel/set up fee of $100 for up to 35 miles.   Above that I charge mileage.    My minimum charge to set up and mill is $400.

I usually use a bdft rate but will use an hourly rate depending upon the job. 

I do try to visit the site and at minimum have the customer send photos of the logs.  My rate method is set at/after the site visit and see the details of the job.

The biggest key to successful portable jobs is successful communication with the customer about what they are responsible for. 

Assembling a travel kit that loads and unloads easily is important if you don't have a dedicated milling truck. 

My travel kit consists of
Blades
2 48" cant hooks -I need 2 60" cant hooks
A digging bar
Fuel
Chainsaw/fuel/bar oil/extra chain/tool
A long handle corn shovel for moving sawdust
Safety gear - glasses, ear plugs, gloves
Spray bottle of diesel for blade cleaning
Small pump sprayer with ATF to lube the mill
Blade lube -
Tape measures- I carry three in the truck
Spare tire
Wheel belts, other spare parts
Basic tool set for mill adjustments/repair
Lumber crayons - 2 colors
Small framing square
Business cards
Yard sign - used with customer permission
Note pad/pens/pencils
Invoice pad
Lunch/drinks/cooler etc.

[beenthere]

Welcome MapleWalnut to the Forestry Forum.

The forum master of portable is likely member Magicman, and I say that because he often tells his reasons more than others tend to do. That alone helps to understand the ins and outs to help answer your questions. Likely you have followed along his "saws 'em and leaves 'em" method. Not for everyone, but worth a good listen and paying attention to what Lynn has to say and tell all about it. He's not braggin, but he is tellin.
There are many others on this forum worthy of paying attention to their ways and means. Good luck to you making a game plan for you and your mill.

[Magicman]

Actually Ted covered it very well in his reply above.  Our rates may vary but each of us establish our rates based on our business profile.  I seldom make a site visit but I do ask for pictures of the logs and discuss such things as logs, slabs, and lumber handling.  Most of my customers are landowners and have or have access to a tractor, etc. to move logs.  I am there to saw, and they must provide adequate help to handle the logs, slabs & lumber.  Usually a minimum of two strong bodies and they will be happy when each sawing day ends.

I do use a Sawing Contract that details the travel & sawing rates, lumber scaling, and liability.  I have never had the contract questioned nor had anyone to hesitate to sign it.  It's two part with both the customer and I getting a copy.  I have never been questioned regarding rates or scaling and I have never "not gotten paid" for any sawing done. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Ted pretty much nailed it.

You can click on my website and see my pricing and policies. I'd also suggest you check other FF members websites and those on the web who advertise mobile sawing and pick and choose what you like from their policies that work best for your situation.

I can't find it right now but somewhere here on the forum is a tool kit put together by the members. As I remember it is a living document and members can update it. If anyone here can find it please post the link.

I will often do a pre-site visit if the customer is close or when I am near him. Please understand most calls and such visits do not result in an actual sawing job and if it does it may be many months down the road.

I have had potential customers call and want me to come look at their standing trees and ask me how many trees/logs it will take to make a bunch of cabins for rental purposes. When I asked him what his rafter, wall stud and floor joist spacing would be and if he was doing board and batten or lap siding, roof pitch or such. He had no clue so I' told him when he decided on those things and had a cut list to call me and I'd plug the numbers in my spreadsheet and tell him how many BF and how much that would cost to saw.

One way to prevent such time and expenses would be to charge for such trips even if you knock it off the bill if they do hire you. Such visits are useful to help explain to the customer where and how to arrange the logs. I' have had customers stack logs down the hill from where they wanted me to set the mill not realizing how hard it would be to roll them up hill with a cant hook.

I used to do a one time mileage charge even if I went several times and left the mill on site a few days. Now I charge a daily trip/mileage fee. I was finding customers would get to the point that we had 1-2 logs and they would say "I'm tired, lets stop for the day and we'll finish these in the morning." It did not cost him any more but I had more mileage and time involved. Now when I tell them "Okay but it is going to cist you this much more" they will often say "Let's go ahead and knock these out today."

My sawing business is not how I earn a living. I call it a cost neutral hobby. I like meeting and helping people and have made a lot of friends in the process and maybe make a little side money in the process.

Good luck.

[Magicman]

somewhere here on the forum is a tool kit put together by the members.

One list was started by Jake Mooney with Wood-Mizer but I would not spend any time searching because it became so impractical and overburdened that it would take a semi to haul it all.  Carry the necessities that Ted listed and gradually add anything that you feel that you must have.  Even doing that you will also gradually fill your truck/tool box with much excess baggage.  I certainly have.

[SawyerTed]

Items I overlooked are chain and Magichook; nail/screw extraction tools; 2x6s for outrigger feet and left- right leveling.

Getting the balance of the right tools without carrying too much stuff takes some time. 

Blade management/storage for sharp and dull blades takes a bit of thought when portable. Magicman modified a plastic trash can for storing used blades, I use a giant Rubbermaid tub.

One challenge some guys encounter is getting insured for portable sawing.  Agents and underwriters have visions of giant spinning blades, flying debris and monstrous killer logs around women and children on the backyard play set. 

[moosehunter]

I tried different pricing over my 10 years of portable milling. I have finally settled on an hourly rate. Charge from the time I pull out of my driveway until the time I am loaded up and ready to leave the job site.
There are many reasons I went hourly. Clients not having enough help, I can't make $ on bdft if I gotta help move lumber. Small logs! I can't make $ sawing small logs. Same for crooked logs. Poor work site conditions, some listed above in other posts.
The main reason; hourly is the simplest. I left home @ 7 am, I'm ready to leave at 3pm = 8 hours @ $$$. If the client asks how many bdft i do some quick measurements give them an estimate and explain how they can figure it out if they want a more exact bdft #.
K.I.S.S.
mh

[OlJarhead]

Great advice above!  I learned along right here on FF and to this day MM and others are my heros!

I charge by the hour because I've found every job and every customer is different and though I generally mill around 300bf/hr on average I've had plenty of jobs that wasn't going to happen due to logs, location, help etc so hourly protects me and the customer knows exactly what they are going ro pay.

I run my YT mostly to share what I've learned here and from doing it 😉

Cheers!

[Maplewalnut]

I would like to thank all of you for responding some great advice here.  This will definitely help me in my decision process.

Happy sawing in 2024!

[blackhawk]

I do portable milling exclusively.  I charge by the hour because there are just too many variables to charge by the bf for me.  My hourly rate starts as soon as I arrive on site and ends once I have everything loaded up ready to leave.  I don't charge a travel fee for anyone within 15-20 minutes from me.  Further than that my travel fee is roughly $1.00 per mile.  I always get pictures of the logs and site at a minimum.  If it is within 30 minutes of me, I go and look at the site and it is always beneficial for both parties involved.  1 out of 10 people have any equipment to move logs on the jobs that I have done.

[Jwswan]

Everybody has given great advice so far. For a couple reasons,  I'm a big proponent of only taking mobile jobs where I can charge by the bdft. Also, most of the above posters are in warmer latitudes.  I'm on the south shore of Lake Superior, so like you, we've got winter road conditions to contend with.  Once the salt trucks come out, my mill stays on my property.   I love my LT 40 super wide, but the one thing it doesn't have is an amazing finish job (much like my old LT 35).  I just feel like the juice isn't worth the squeeze in terms of collateral damage to my mill by exposing it to corrosives and potentially icy/poor driving conditions. -Josh

[OlJarhead]

Not southern here ;)

My rates were $100/hr but with inflation I've decided to increase them to $125/hr.  However, I may not drag my mill out to remote saw anymore either as physically I'm not sure I can do it.  I can mill for myself on my own time now but that's easy enough to do since I can decide when to quit or not ;)

I enjoyed milling remote and never charged by the BF.  I found hourly rates were best in my area as people understood them and frankly getting the production rate up depended entirely on them!  I can mill over the 'quoted' rate of my mill but that takes a very good crew, good logs etc etc and even averaging 300bf/hr can be a challenge sometimes with the logs and folks doing the labor.  So I figure if I mill 400-500bf/hr all day my customers are saving a few pennies.

I enjoyed doing it though and if I could continue, I would but for now I'm just milling for me :D

Also, I paid for my mill this way in 13 months flat :D It can be worth it if there is a market there and you are willing to drive