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Author Topic: Timber harvest notification law  (Read 3907 times)

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Offline danbuendgen

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2016, 07:40:06 AM »
Not to optimistic about what kids being born today face for a future.   Its obviously not likely to include traditional American dream and personal freedom.   

That's right. We are losing personal freedom a little bit at a time. Just wait for Hillary to get in there. Good bye freedom, Hello controlled society. Just like a frog in hot water. Turn it up slow, and the frog wont tell. Drop the frog in boiling water, and it wont like that one bit. We are the frog, the water was cold, and it gets warmer everyday.

We have more and more police that are getting more and more militarized, video cameras everywhere you go, it's obvious they want to take away our guns, our kids are on drugs from a early age, we are fed a ton of unhealthy junk food, they keep making it harder and harder to run a small business, there are endless amounts of subliminal messages on the TV, computer, billboards ect. Ever look up at the sky and see all those chem trails and wonder what they are? Trust me, your smart phone is the stepping stone to the RFID implant chip. Cashless society is around the corner. We will be paying taxes on every penny we earn. All money exchange will be done through the implant. They will know where we are at all times.

Don't believe me? Just do a quick Google or Youtube search. Does any of this sound familiar? Anyone ever read 1984 or Brave New World?   It's coming. No no no, wait, it's here.....
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Offline Autocar

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2016, 10:23:01 AM »
Ive always told people here in Ohio the way we are headed we will need a license to get the license.
Bill

Offline RHP Logging

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2016, 10:51:20 AM »
We have to notify here (wi) of all timber harvests.  Just a way for them to keep tabs on you.  The notice is good for a year.  Really not that big of a deal.  Just more hoops.  On mfl pieces you have o follow BMPs of course.  On my jobs the dnr rarely shows up to do final inspection.  They know how I work.  They know the ones they have to watch too. I have to carry work comp but I exclude myself.  Work comp rates for hand cutters are 60/100 dollars so no employees.  Everyone subs.  Mechanized rates are like 12/100 dollars.  When I went into biz for myself five years ago handcutting rates were 30/100 and Mechanized was 15/100 or so. So many guys have either gone mech or quit it raised the pool that much for handcutters.   
Buckin in the woods

Offline ehp

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2016, 11:49:38 AM »
Sorry but I think you guys will end up like we are here, lots of other places are looking at how logging is done here . First you need to get insurance for the county's you are going to cut in, at least 2 million dollars worth  before you cut a single tree , next you need a forestry to mark your bush or if timber is big enough you can mark trees over 22 inches in diameter to the basal area that has to be left and that is high , You are watched steady so no screwing up 

Offline danbuendgen

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2016, 01:57:33 PM »
That's just it. The law is there to keep tabs on everything. Loggers and landowners. They want to make sure the everyone is paying taxes on the timber. And they want to keep a better eye on loggers work to make sure BMPs are used. It's the few bad apple loggers that have ruined the bushel.

I was just talking with some loggers at our local saw/logging supply shop, we got to talking about the new laws VT passed for logging.... I'm not 100% if all this is true (I hope not) but this is what those guys were saying:
We need the intent to cut permit $25 good for a year. They need to know where the job is, and how much wood is going to be cut per species and where the wood will be marketed too. I'm currently on a 250 acre job with no forester. How am I supposed to know how much I will harvest in a year?
Then we will need a stream crossing permit. $25 for each stream good for a year. But get this, a licensed forester has to come out and approve it before it gets used. Then they punch it in on a GPS, so anytime it rains, they can come out and inspect it.
And we need to provide trip tickets to the forester, landowner, and town. The land owner also has to provide the paperwork to the town, this way the town can make sure that all the number are the same for both party's. And the town can contact the mills to confirm it. I always provide the scale tickets to the land owner/forester, just to show them the volumes per load because I only pay per thousand. But I never show the check or pay stub. They have no business to know how much money I make when I bid jobs per thousand. The only thing that wont be able to prove is any firewood sales. Good thing for me, almost half my time is spent on firewood...
They wanted to put in the new law that loggers need workers comp on everyone. Owners can not be excluded, but that did not get added in the bill. GOOD THING. If that's ever happens, I'm totally out of business...No way can I afford to give half my income to an insurance company!
Overall it's going to make more paper work for us. And make a timber harvest more expensive for landowners. Having to pay a forester to check out a stream crossing? $80 per hour for the land owner to pay for. It's going to make more landowners not interested in logging with all the new rules, regulations, and money to spend.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Offline RHP Logging

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2016, 02:27:14 PM »
That's cheap on the stream crossing.  300 bucks here for starters and it might take months for the dnr to show up to approve it.  If there's any water crossing we usually walk or wait till winter.
Buckin in the woods

Offline danbuendgen

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2016, 02:45:57 PM »
That's cheap on the stream crossing.  300 bucks here for starters and it might take months for the dnr to show up to approve it.  If there's any water crossing we usually walk or wait till winter.

Oh, I know $25 for stream crossing is cheap. So is the intent to cut permit. It's just the idea of having it. For us in VT, it's been the wild wild west. Or east rather. But you get the idea. I just don't like the idea of more rules and regulations and paperwork. I DON'T like being told what to do and not to do what and when I can or can't do it. I need to make a living, so these politicians can shove it hard.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Offline coxy

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2016, 03:02:09 PM »
I wish they would hurry up and do this in NY before the election so I could vote for the one that will give me the most free thing since ill be out of biz and will need lots of free things

Offline dustintheblood

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2016, 03:08:32 PM »
I have it here in Ontario, every tree has to be released by the bylaw before you can cut anything . Main thing is to stop over cutting the bush

EHP, one quick correction.  Tree cutting bylaws are only in some counties (and their townships).  We don't have one here in our county.

The federal and provincial lands (aka "Crown Land") are subject to a complex and regulated regime that is based on open market mechanisms.  Forest management certifications are required that span the range from ISO to FSC and SFI.

Case 75C, Case 1494, RangeRoad RR10T36, Igland 4001, Hardy 1400ST, WM LT40HD, WM Edger, ICS DH Kiln

Offline danbuendgen

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2016, 03:40:22 PM »
I wish they would hurry up and do this in NY before the election so I could vote for the one that will give me the most free thing since ill be out of biz and will need lots of free things

And which evil candidate will give away more free stuff??
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Offline ehp

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2016, 05:54:38 PM »
Bylaws are becoming more and more everyday here, in some places they raised the basal so high its very hard to cut anything . As of now it cost us nothing to put in a permit to ask to cut a bush but I can see that changing here soon, the gov't is looking at how much more money they can get from us loggers and land owners

Offline Woodhauler

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2016, 03:34:34 PM »
In maine its to tell where you are cutting so forestry service can inforce the laws! Biggest law that the mills enforce is jumping zones! As in selling your wood from a zone father from the mill and lying on town to get more money!! Glad they are kinda inforcing this law up here! Its not a bad thing! When I worked in WV years ago, the forest bureau gave you a book of tags for the lot you was on. One tag stayed on woodyard in coffee can, matching numbered half was stapled to load of wood to be seen from back of load. If forestry cop came up behind truck and took number and got location of lot and went back and found no matching ticket you went to jail!!!  Good law I thought!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Offline RHP Logging

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Re: Timber harvest notification law
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2016, 06:11:01 PM »
Not to optimistic about what kids being born today face for a future.   Its obviously not likely to include traditional American dream and personal freedom.   

That's right. We are losing personal freedom a little bit at a time. Just wait for Hillary to get in there. Good bye freedom, Hello controlled society. Just like a frog in hot water. Turn it up slow, and the frog wont tell. Drop the frog in boiling water, and it wont like that one bit. We are the frog, the water was cold, and it gets warmer everyday.

We have more and more police that are getting more and more militarized, video cameras everywhere you go, it's obvious they want to take away our guns, our kids are on drugs from a early age, we are fed a ton of unhealthy junk food, they keep making it harder and harder to run a small business, there are endless amounts of subliminal messages on the TV, computer, billboards ect. Ever look up at the sky and see all those chem trails and wonder what they are? Trust me, your smart phone is the stepping stone to the RFID implant chip. Cashless society is around the corner. We will be paying taxes on every penny we earn. All money exchange will be done through the implant. They will know where we are at all times.

Don't believe me? Just do a quick Google or Youtube search. Does any of this sound familiar? Anyone ever read 1984 or Brave New World?   It's coming. No no no, wait, it's here.....

Somehow I didn't see this post the first time.  I own brave new world, 1984, Fahrenheit 451 among other books on the subject.  At this point we still have a choice and need to teach our children to see through the crap.  Don't believe the media for one.  It's just a show.  Challenge authority when you know they have over stepped their bounds or are bending laws.  It's really about being smart enough and cynical enough to know when there's a problem. Too many people follow the herd because it's easy.  As long as there are people who can think independently and will act we are ok.  Teach the youth how to work and think and we should be fine. When Hillary gets elected (and believe me she will because we've had our first leader of non European decent now we need our first female and I don't care who leads the country as long as they are elected for competentance and not popularity) not much will really change. Politicians are too wrapped up in their personal agendas to really accomplish anything.  Plan on more taxes and fees but as time goes on that goes without saying.  More government regs too. That's just the way of it unfortunately.  We as in America are  similar to the Roman empire.  We are riding the crest of the wave right now and maybe even on the way down but we won't know until it's all over. We as in us living today will all be dead by then.  History boys. It repeats itself no matter how hard we try.  Human nature.
Buckin in the woods


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