Three point hitch log skidding grapple

[logman81]

I'm thinking about looking into getting a three point hitch skidding grapple. I currently have a Fransgard winch it works grate for thinning wood lots. I thinking that the grapple will be easier to use as I would not have to set chokers on the logs and would save me from having to get on and of the tractor so much. Do the grapples work good for thinning wood lots? Would I be able to get more production out of the tractor? I interested in the uniforest scorpion 1800 grapple it looks like a very well made unit and easy to use. Just looking for input on what you all think or if you have experience with one.     

[g_man]

They look like nice units but I could not use one in my woods. There are very few trees that I can back right up to with a tractor because of the rough terrain. Maybe it would work if I was working with someone else who was felling and winching to the road where the grapple could get it  to skid out. Try getting some logs without using your winch cable and see how it works out.

[lumberjack48]

I took a look at it on google, looks like a pretty slick little grapple. Logging bigger timber and picking up logs it would be easier and faster then climbing off and on the tractor.
No , they don't work good for thinning, all-tho on some thinning you do have room to get around with out skinning up other trees.
More production would depend on how far your skidding, on a long pull you want to pull as many trees, you can every turn.
You need good ground, fairly flat, ect, you'd still have your cable for rougher going ect,[ ether- or ]
On a short skid this would be fast, grab-an-go-an-drop, and deck after pulling 6 to 10 trees. You should have 3 to 4 landings, that way you can pull 60 to 80 trees before sawing up.

Depends on the cost to.
It would be nice to have dry gloves
Easy for your wife to use

[Stephen Alford]

 Hey logman 81, are you thinking of a bypass grapple and hauling tree length or will you be trying to carry product from the stump to the landing ?  Got some pics in the gallery of the one I have been using for 20 years.

[Maine372]

when i was logging with a tractor had a couple lots where i was pulling lots of big wood. either one tree to a hitch or actually merchandizing the tree where it falls and pulling it in two hitches.

i wanted a grapple for the same reasons you listed, less on and off, and saving time. i never got the money together and i realized somthing. most of the wood that would have been grab one and go was to big for a grapple that my tractor would support. so i would still need the winch so i could use a long chain to get around it.

i still wanted one. wouldnt be to hard to keep on the landing with the tractor and swap out as needed. remember you will need a hydraulic circuit for it, my tractor didnt have one and that was another hangup.

good luck with your decision, and remember pics are required.

[bill m]

I have a grapple  ( made by Iron & Oak ) for my tractor and it works great for smaller trees and lot clearing. Sometimes I use it for bunching logs to the skid trail and then pick them up with my trailer. The biggest drawback with it is the amount of weight it will pick up. The grapple can handle the weight but being so far behind the ends of the lift arms it greatly reduces the amount you can lift. My grapple opening is 52 inches and will grab some big logs just can't pick them up :(

[Ed_K]

I have often thought of mounting one onto the winch.Using a hydrolic piston to move it up down as needed.That was till i read Bill's latest comment   :( .

[logman81]

I think it might work good for the lot that I'm on now. The wood is small 8'' to 12'' mostly with flat ground with good straight trails. It would make the wife more productive with the machine and yes it would keep your hands dry. I hate getting my gloves soaked and having to work like that all day even with extra pairs of gloves you just bring home more wet gloves. :( My tractor is fairly strong for it's size built very heavy about 8,000 without winch so I think the weight of the grapple would not effect it much. I've also been granted to cut the whole lot witch is a total of 75 acres so it would definitely pay for it self. The wood lot is dense about fifteen to twenty cord to the acre. I will try to get the logs out without winching and see how well it works tomorrow and will take some new pics of the layout. Thanks again for your help. ;D

[woodmills1]

send me a PM one of my tree guys has one he bought      too large for his smaller Kubota

[Ed_K]

Logman, I carry a pair of rubber gloves from Gemplers that way I keep my warm gloves dry ;).

[logman81]

I like the set up you got there bill m. I didn't know Iron $ oak made one with a winch on it. How much weight can you lift with it? What is required for hydraulic hook up? Thanks for the great tip Ed K I'll have to get some. I'm still thinking about getting one but not sure it would be that much better than what I already have.

[bill m]

Iron & Oak does not offer a winch - I installed it myself.  To operate the grapple you only need one set of remotes. The amount of weight you can lift is determined be what the 3 pt. hitch on your tractor can lift. Being that the grapple is so far behind the ends of the lift arms it reduces the amount you can lift. I can pick up about 200 bd. ft. of pine. The higher you can get it the better. It pulls easier and puts more weight on the rear wheels. On the bigger stuff it works better if you grab them by the small end. On firewood size trees ( under 12 inches dbh ) you can grab 3 at a time, just have to make they stay tight in the grapple. If you have to back up with with something in the grapple and the log is at an angle be careful you will bend your lift arms. If you do not have a long skid it is faster than a winch.

[g_man]

I have a grapple  ( made by Iron & Oak ) for my tractor and it works great for smaller trees and lot clearing. Sometimes I use it for bunching logs to the skid trail and then pick them up with my trailer. The biggest drawback with it is the amount of weight it will pick up. The grapple can handle the weight but being so far behind the ends of the lift arms it greatly reduces the amount you can lift. My grapple opening is 52 inches and will grab some big logs just can't pick them up :(

Bill how do you power and control that winch. What is it ? Nice set up !

[Doc Hickory]

I see Wallenstein makes a nice 3 point grapple also, has bypass tines to grip stuff as small as 3". I've also encountered a 3 point grapple that swivels like a backhoe..can't remember who makes it right now-that one requires 2 sets of remotes, one for the grapple, one for the swing. Long live the internet!

[logman81]

Thanks bill m for the info, you did a nice job putting that winch on there. Do the grapples come with their own hydraulic control valve? I have a backhoe that runs off the tractor hydraulics there is one line that comes out of the pump (high pressure) and one that dumps back into the hydraulic tank of the tractor. Would I be able to run a grapple off this system?

[logman81]

I have seen the wallenstein grapples they look ok. Don't think their as well built as the uniforest grapples they seem to be built very rugged. I'm thinking about getting one to use for short skids and cleaning up slash on my jobs!

[bill m]

Logman81, The grapple does not come with a control valve.
g_man, The winch is a hydraulic Ramsey rph8000.

I modified a 2 speed rear shifter to operate the free wheel so I did not have to get on and off the tractor

[treefarmer87]

that is one neat tractor setup you have bill m

[g_man]

Thanks bill, Good picture too. I like it.

[logman81]

Well I've decided to stick with the winch for now kind of hard to beat for thinning and doing selective cutting. I'm going to hold off and look for a old small skidder of Iron mule instead of the grapple.

[logman81]

Well after many land clearing jobs and more coming I have changed my mind. I am going to purchase a grapple in the future for my tractor. I will keep the winch for when I need to work on hills. I desided on the smaller Ryan's grapple I like the design and it's not to heavy about 400lbs.

[logman81]

Does any one know how many gpm it takes to operate the grapple? My tractor, puts out 16 gpm.

[bill m]

I'm not sure what Ryan's specs for their grapple but I would think 16 gpm should be enough. My tractor is about 12 gpm and works fine with my grapple. Have you looked at the ones from Iron and Oak?  That is what I have. I know they say a shipping weight of 650 lbs. but mine does not weigh anywhere near that.

[logman81]

Yes I checked them out they are actually a little more money and I don't think they are built as well as ryn's grapple? Ryan's claims  only 400lbs.

[logman81]

do the grapples work good for dragging brush and bunching small trees? I was thinking it would be good also for pre bunching tree length logs for my skidder.

[bill m]

I think my grapple weighs less than 400 lbs. Don't let the looks fool you. I have used mine on 45 and 55 hp tractors and haven't broke it yet. It works great for brush. You can pick up 2 or 3 piles of brush at one time and carry them to the chipper or burning pile. As for bunching for a skidder you are limited by the amount your 3 pt. hitch can pick up. If your pulling firewood size trees ( about 14 inches dbh and less ) it works good but anything much bigger and full length your tractor may struggle to pick it up.

[logman81]

Thanks bill m for the help I have not ruled out iron and oak I will have to do some close comparing. Most of the timber where I live is not to big for the most part 16 dbh +/_. I do come across some monster white pines but not to often. Sounds to me like this what I have been needing for a long time now. Bill where did you buy yours?

[bill m]

I got mine at Green County Power in Greenville NY but if you do a dealer search on the Iron and Oak web site you can find a dealer closer to you. If you want to drive up here to Mass sometime you can see mine in operation and try it out on my tractor.

[logman81]

Thanks bill m I did a dealer search and found three within twenty five miles from me. I may just take you up on your offer, would love to see all your toys!

[Piston]

Logman,
I'm surprised I've never come across the Ryan grapple you mentioned.  I've done a lot of research on these grapples in the past.  I just checked their website.  Are you interested in the 48" or 60"? 
I've talked with Bill a bit about his grapple in the past and based on his recommendations and use I would certainly look very hard at the Iron and Oak grapple before making a decision.   ;)
Regarding the hydraulic flow, you would have more than enough at 16gpm.  Is that your total flow including power steering pump or your valve flow?  That is a good amount if it's your valve flow, must be a good sized tractor.  With that much flow, you would most likely want a flow restrictor inline for the cylinder, as you may be closing the grapple TOO fast for your liking.  I know you can feather the flow, but sometimes it's difficult.  I am putting a flow restrictor on my stump grinder because my tractors hydraulics move the cylinders too fast, even with careful feathering, and my flow is only 9.6GPM. 

Please keep us posted on what you decide, I"m very very interested in these 3pt hitch grapples.   ;D


Bill,
I had no idea your Iron and Oak grapple weighed around 400lbs or so.  I always thought it was close to 700lbs  due to the "shipping weight" they mention, that is really good to know that it doesn't weigh that much! 

[logman81]

Piston the grapple from ryans equipment hasn't been out very long maybe a couple of years. Seems like a good product to me. I'm thinking the 48" would be best for my tractor. My tractor has two pumps one for steering and one for hydraulics. The one for hydraulics is 16 gpm total flow the steering I think is 8gpm. It's not a huge tractor only 40hp. But it is heavy about 6000 with out loader. With loader and winch about 8000. I have narrowed it down to the ryans and Iron & oak grapples. I'll have to some closer comparisons when I get some free time.

[Piston]

Logman,
I have a GREAT idea! 

How about YOU buy the Ryan's grapple, then, you invite me down to try out your grapple, and then I'll try out Bill's grapple some time, and then I'LL know which one to buy?  Sound like a good idea?  :D :D :D

I'll be adding one of these 3pt grapples to my stable within the next year or so.  For what I do and the size trees I would be using it on, I really think it would be an excellent match.  Good luck with your choice, I'm sure either will be great.   ;)

[Holmes]

Logman,
I have a GREAT idea! 

How about YOU buy the Ryan's grapple, then, you invite me down to try out your grapple, and then I'll try out Bill's grapple some time, and then I'LL know which one to buy?  Sound like a good idea?  :D :D :D

I'll be adding one of these 3pt grapples to my stable within the next year or so.  For what I do and the size trees I would be using it on, I really think it would be an excellent match.  Good luck with your choice, I'm sure either will be great.   ;)

You, my friend are going to need more tractors to handle all the attachments... ;)

[thecfarm]

Piston has attachments like Al smith has chainsaws.  :D

[Piston]

Hello,
My name is Matt, and I am an attachment-a-holic.   

:D :D :D

[thecfarm]

You can still you the symbols for AA.  :D

[logman81]

Sounds good to me piston, I'm leaning more to the ryan's grapple I like how it is built. Plus the grapple can easy be removed and put on a loader crane that I may build in the future for my equipment trailer.

[bill m]

When I bought my grapple it was less than $1600 but prices have gone up a lot. One place has it listed for $3600 and another has it for $2900.

[Piston]

When I bought my grapple it was less than $1600 but prices have gone up a lot. One place has it listed for $3600 and another has it for $2900.

Wow that is amazing.  It's incredible how the cost of steel has gone up so much.


Logman,
Have you seen my thread on these logging grapples? 
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=55898.0
It may have some useful info for you.  I was also interested in being able to remove the grapple to use on my backhoe for sorting logs if the need ever arised. 

[bill m]

Just found the Iron and Oak grapple on another web site for $1900.

[logman81]

Bill m what site was that?

[bill m]

Ragan Equipment

[logman81]

Thanks again bill

[teamgreen]

I started out with the wallenstien 36" grapple years ago, great setup for reasonable size wood, perfect for pole wood or tree length firewood, did tear it apart a few times around the rotating pin at the top, great for brush and small dia poles also, bought a valby 76" grapple last year absolutely love it. once you put one on the back of a tractor and dont have to mess with chokers youll never want to go back, hell I even use the grapple to move my log splitter around the lot...