Poll: smoking

[Ron Wenrich]

Poll expires 2-13-06

Smoking has been banned in CA, and there's talk of banning it in NY.  What do you think?

[Quartlow]

I'll be first to step into the fire, I don't think the government has any business telling any one what they can legally do on their property.

If a restaurant or bar owner wants to cater to smokers let him, you have the power to decide whether or not you want to do business there. Will it hurt business, most likely not. Is it going to make people quit smoking? most likely not.

Keep giving up your rights, pretty soon it will be the communist states of America

[Tom]

I smoked for Many, many years and hope that it hasn't killed me.  I quit in 1980.   Smoking in my presence not only bothers me, it sickens me.  I get nauseaus.  Tobacco smoke from a cigaret that is 50 or more feet away can make me throw up.  It's as if I had taken that first drag of my first cigaret again.  Most smokers have forgotten how bad it made them feel.  I'm reminded every time I am in proximity to the smoke.  I have neighbors who are very heavy smokers.  I used to visit them daily years ago, before they started smoking.  One day, they had a traumatic awakening that their son was a homosexual.  They decided that it was a good reason to start smoking.  I can't stand to be around them anymore.  I've lost two good friends.  I've been to their house maybe five or six times in the last 10 years.

I don't like the idea that the government has to be envolved.  I don't mind what people do at home.  I think there are some things that need to be curtailed in public places to protect those who don't partake from those who suffer from the addiction.  If it takes a law to do it, then I guess it's worth it.

[Ianab]

NZ has just done it. No smoking in any workplaces, bars, clubs etc.

The best part is being able to go out and NOT come home with your hair and clothes smelling like an ashtray. There was all doom and gloom from the bar owners that it would drive all their customers away and they would all go broke. After 12 months, no change in the bar / resturant turnover  : It's just they are nicer places now.

What drove it here was workplace safety, if you employ someone you are legally and morally required to give them a 'safe' workplace. If you had a factory where your workers were breathing the sort of air you used to get in a smokey bar OSH would have you closed down instantly or have everyone wandering around with air masks on.

You might not give up smoking, but I bet you will smoke less if you have to go and stand outside for a smoke  ;)

Ian

[Jeff]

I quit smoking 7 years ago and now have the same effects on me as Tom when around smoke. I have no problem at all telling a restaurant or shop owner myself that if they don't do something I wont be back. I don't need the government to do it for me.  I have done it twice in the last six months. One was an antique shop where the owner smokes. I told him on my way out that he had several interesting things but I could not stand to be in his shop one more second or would I return. It was worse then a bar. At least bars have ventilation. (I wont go in bars any more because of the smoke)  The other place was the Clare Ponderosa restaurant. You have to walk through the smoking section to get out of the place. I told the manager on my way out, that it was the last time I ate in there until they moved the smoking area to somewhere where it did not sicken me every time I finished a meal.

There is one more place where I THOUGHT I was in control of the smoke and that was my own home. The last time we went up to Chet's, I came home and as soon as I walked in the house, I was ready to kill my son. I knew exactly who had been there.  Stacy was upset that he would not listen to her and lit up anyhow and had two friends there to play cards and they smoked as well. He knew full well about my rules of smoking in the house. I have told him if he ever enters my home and does it again, I will kick his ass, and I mean it. Literally. I'll beat him senseless which wont take much.

As for the right to smoke. That is every persons own decision. I have no problem with smokers. If it wasn't for the allergy to them, and the fact that they will kill you, and the cost, and the stench, I could use a cigarette right now. Always loved to smoke and enjoyed to smoke. Just didn't like having my lips and finger nails turning blue that last day I did smoke.  :-\

[isassi]

Yes, I admit, I am a smoker and I am trying to quit. Down to less then a pack a day and I hope to be over it very soon. I am 45 and I started at 18...just 'cause everyone I worked with was doing it. Now it is very tough to quit because I frankly do enjoy a cigarette....so be it...but..it is my choice..totally. And I don't smoke in anyones house or my own, nor in public...my own private habit.  I do not have a problem with smoking being banned in public, for the reasons that Tom and Jeff stated. What I am afraid of is the increasing intrusion of government into private and personal lives. I don't believe we really want the government regulating morality and behavior. If they want to curb it, make possesion of tobacco carry the same penalty as pot. Then we wouldn't worry over smoking in public. Of course, the money we save will go to increased taxes to pay for more prisons because the last time we regulated morality in America, we found out it didn't work. Education will hopefully eradicate smoking, not more useless laws.

[bitternut]

NY State is smoke free in Niagara County where I live. Best thing they ever did. If you want to smoke you can do it all you want on private property that permits it. If its public property or the workplace it should not be allowed. When I was working the smokers used to go sit in a smoking room and then they made them go stand outside. Of course they hung around the door to do it and you had to walk through a fog of smoke to enter or leave the building. Been retired for six years so I don't know what they do now.

I quit about 25 years ago for the last time. Before that I must have quit at least a thousand times. Hardest thing I ever did. Did it cold turkey. I knew a guy that was on oxygen and used to unhook his bottle so he could have a cigarette. Knew another guy that had his voice box out and smoked through the hole in his throat. Tobacco is very addictive and I know lots of people would quit if they could. Some others just plain don't want to and I guess that is their right. Just don't try it in my house or vehicle.

[Tom]

It's not the morality that bothers me.  It's the tobacco smoke.

I don't look at a freedom as something that infringes upon another's freedom.

when I smoked, I didn't understand why I couldn't smoke anywhere I wanted.  It seemed my right.

When I quit, I realized that a smoker has the choice to smoke or not smoke.  The non-smoker has no choice.  

If the non-smoker wants to be in a smoke free atmosphere in a smoker's society, he has to be the one who picks his surroundings.   He has to stay at home, or in an area that is designated as "non-smoking". (that's a laugh that there are such areas described in a restaurant.  Smoking is far more intrusive than the size of a restaurant.)

Did you know that Paper mills don't smell bad.....  if you live next to one.  Neither do pig sties, horse barns, dairies or human waste disposal companies.  Some of them will make you sick.  Some of them may kill you.  If you choose not to live next to one, then its aroma is offensive.  Perhaps it's self preservation.

While pig sties may be safe, most municipalities have laws as to were they can reside.  I wonder why?  

[sawguy21]

I am  non smoker. Tried it as a kid and could not understand why anyone would make a career out of it. The law here states that any area that allows access to minors has to be non-smoking. The city bylaw bans smoking in any public place ostensibly to protect workers health. I am with Jeff and Tom, I can't handle being around smoke and the sooner it disappears the better I'll like it. BTW, our government uses the high taxes from tobacco sales to finance quit smoking programs. Go figure

[CHARLIE]

Yeah, the smoke bothers the heck out of me and if I am trapped and can't get away from it, I feel ill.  But that's only one part of smoking that I hate.  Most smokers are slobs. I've seen very few that won't throw a butt out their vehicle window, or throw a butt on the ground.  I've even seen where a smoker emptied their vehicle's ashtray on the ground.  IBM Rochester did not allow smoking in the buildings so the smokers stood at the doorways.  The company put a large cigarette butt receptical next to the area and the smokers still threw the butts on the ground.  Those filters don't rot, they just lay there for years and years and years. >:(       

[sandmar]

I am a non-smoker,always have been. My Dad smoked for years when I was a kid,he had to have a heart valve replaced.My Father-in-law smoker for years also,he died of lung cancer.My wife's uncle smoked for years,he suffered from emphysema for years before it finally killed him. I will not allow anyone to smoke in my house,my work shop,or my barn.Like Tom said,smokers have a choice,the non-smokers do not in confined spaces. Therefore,I pick and choose where to eat,and spend my money.Sorry folks....just a touchy subject for me.

Sandmar

[Jeff]

Most smokers are slobs

I am disassociating the forestry forum from that statement Charlie! You dont know most smokers and thats a statistical fact! :D I am sure that you meant the statement to me aimed only at those that fit your definition of a slob smoker not at "most" smokers.

[Jeff]

What I can not beleive, is that Jeremy had me for a complete example of a smoker yet still chose to smoke.  I smoked from the time I was 12 even though I was a preachers kid. SMoked unfiltered Lucky's the neighbor got from his old man. I never had a smoker close to see what hell they go through trying to breath or the way that cigs rule their every move. Its true. Where am I  going to smoke? do I have a light? do I have enough to get to point b from point A, where can I get more? Where can I get money to get more? ? ? ?

He saw them almost kill me and then took it up AFTER he left home. AFTER!

[CHARLIE]

You are right Jeff.  I don't know most smokers but everywhere I go I see where they've been. They've been in parks, at the beach, on the city sidewalks, driving down roads, at malls, in parking lots, in stadiums, at the races....etc., etc., etc......    >:(  

[Max sawdust]

Hey I am a smoker Who Ya callen a slob :D :D Just kidding quite 12 years ago :D :D  Addicted to chew for da nicoteen : :
I hate it >:(
I voted up to the establisment.  My wife and I  will not go to a resturant that is real smokey.  If we go somewere with smoking I have to wash my clothes when I get home cause they stink.

I would like to vote for banning smoking, but something about free market economy comes to mind.  If enough people do not like smoking then the bar/resturant will go out of business ;D
Max

Jeff, take it easy on him, you will cause him to smoke more.  Problem is the stuff is SO addictive :-[

[Jeff]

I dont say anything about his smoking to him ACCEPT if he smokes in my house, and if it happens again I wont say anything that time either as he aint goona see whats coming.  As for that, I've lit cigarettes for him. I know all about pressure from parents to quit andit dont do anything to help.

[Max sawdust]

Ya lighting up in your house is disrespectfull, and deserves a whoopen.

I know what you mean, mine are too young but my brothers 20 year old son smokes, and his parents do not know.  I hate it and do not condone it, but would rather know what he is up too than stick my head in the sand.

[sandmar]

Jeff,if it helps you can tell him that watching a loved one die over a 2 year period with lung cnacer that metastisis in the brain, is a very life changing event. I would not wish to see that again in my life,not a easy or pleasant way to leave this world,and the whole family suffers to some extent with them along the way.

Sandmar......sorry if this is too serious,but I tell everyone I see smoking this story

[asy]

Our smoking laws are pretty much the same as NZ. Thankfully.

Now they are talking about making smoking while driving in a car illegal, as too many people throw their butts out the window (cigarette ones, that is ;) )

A few weeks ago a bushfire was caused by someone throwing a butt out the window and people were killed. They know who threw the butt and they are looking at charging them with negligent manslaughter.

This isn't the first bushfire blamed on cigarette butts.

I have no idea how in daylights they'll police this, since they don't even seem to be able to totally police people driving with un-seatbelted kids in the back...  but it's a good idea.

Oh, and, tom, I've never been a smoker, but the smell makes me want to throw up as well. My kids saw their grandmother dying from lung cancer, and as she said, if nothing else, let's hope it's enough to make them never take up smoking.

asy :D

[crtreedude]

I quit smoking back when I was 21 - and I love the smell of tobacco to this day. The thing is, my wife is alergic to it. For me - you could be a chimmney around me and I wouldn't care - but it effects a lot of people.

Let them smoke - as long as they can totally control the smoke, and I don't mean little signs that say "smoking section". 

The right to smoke ends when the smoke travels into another section. Therefore, it doesn't belong in a public place - unless that public place is for smokers only.

As far as one of our kids smoking in the house - I wouldn't have to kill them - Amy would.  and if they gave her a problem, they know they would be facing me.  >:(

If you do smoke - make a point of picking up any cigarette butts that your slob brethren throw around. After all - it is your right to smoke that you will be losing.

[TexasTimbers]

Reformed smoker here too. I absolutley detest the stuff. Those who don't experience what Tom was talking about might not be able to relate. I don't have it quite that bad but I sure know what he's talking about. But as much as I detest the stuff I detest giving government the power to tell me (in this case my fellow smoking citizens) what to do.
It's easy to say "smoke bothers me so it's okay to give government power to ban smoking - because that benefits ME." But it's not so easy to hear about a law that says "No more logging anywhere by private persons. Period."  ,,,, because the Tree Huggers who eventually gained the majority "get sick" when they see a tree being cut.
It shouldn't be rule by majority in every case.
If you are in a place that allows smoking, vote with your feet. The marketplace, though sluggish at times, usually gets it right in the end. Government, though even more sluggish, almost always gets it wrong.

[thecfarm]

Here in Maine there is no public smoking.I quite 10 years ago.Glad I did.I must of tried 1000 times too,Bitternut.It was a hard road to travel and I'm not going back.Every day I miss it,but no way will I start up.It costs ALOT of money.I know of married couples who smoke. Wouldn't surprize me if they are spending $200 a month on cigarettes and there is booze on top of that.I want toys to enjoy.I have better ways to spend my money.

[Kirk_Allen]

I took up smoking in Boot Camp.  When the DI said "smokers, take 5, the rest of you, grab a broom", I knew it was time to start smoking    Didn't last long though.  Once out of Boot Camp I quite.  Probably didn't smoke enough to get hooked.

To answer the Poll question, I am fed up with the Government making rules that take peoples rights away. I think that if a restaurant or bar want to make no smoking bans, or business, etc, great, I am all for it but I am not for our Government making more laws that take the rights of our people away. 

I voted "DON'T KNOW" since there was no mention of who was doing the banning.  If its the Government, NO, if its the business owners, YES.

I have no smoking policy on my property. Got tired of the SLOBS that would come and get FREE firewood and throw there butts on the ground while they stacked it. Nothing makes me madder than having to clean up someone else's cigarette mess.

I created quite a stir while in the service on this issue.  Our Branch Chief was a heavy smoker.  I was running the Swing Shift crew, of which NONE of us smoked.  Came in for Shift change and on our duty list for the evening was to pick up all the butts around the hanger.  NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Next morning I got a call at home and was told to report to the Branch Chief ASAP.  He wanted to know why I didn't do what I was ordered to.  I politely told him I felt that is "order" to pick up his and others cigarette butts was not a valid order and bordered on abuse considering not 1 person on our shift smoked.  The think blew up into an IG (Inspector General) issue before the day was out.  Branch Chief ended up getting reprimanded for abusing his authority and was given 40 hrs of extra duty time picking up Cigarette Butts on the BASE! 

3 Years later he quite smoking and later apologized for what he tried to make us do.  We became pretty good friends and went on several moose hunts together.  The world is a funny place ;D

[thedeeredude]

I voted up to the bizness.  I hate the smell of smoke, but it is simple thought that if someone wants to smoke, why should the government stop them.  If the owner of the property doesn't want smoking, fine.  If the government tells them they don't want smoking, I got a problem with it.  I think enough people would leave the restaurant, etc., that the place would have a no smoking policy.  My grandfather died of lung cancer almost 6 years ago.  That's enough for me to keep away from cigarettes. 

[IL Bull]

I do not smoke, do not like the smell in the air or on my clothes but I believe it should be up to private business on what they should do.
Less government (who's going to enforce this??).

[crtreedude]

My issue has been regarding smoking is this. When everyone is supposed to smoke outside because the company request it - they huddle around the door where people are passing.

Sorry, but if so many smokers weren't so inconsiderate - they wouldn't be losing their right to smoke where they wish. You also have to take into account the people around you who choose not to participate.

The same thing goes for butts in parks, in parking lots, in fact, anywhere you let people smoke. You come in my house and mess things up - and you won't be back.

You have a right to smoke - but you don't have a right to mess things up for others.

[SwampDonkey]

When I'm in a room of smokers it makes my head ache and I have to leave. I know several people who's folks smoked and the children have allergies. My cousins never did get allergies, but it's a wonder because my uncle smoked like a chimney. My folks and grandparents never smoked in my life time. Mom's dad used to smoke 50 years ago. Mom had two brothers that smoked and never lived to retirement. Mom grew up with a bunch of neighbors kids in a big family and everyone had/has cancer or heart disease. They would smoke in the hospital down to their last breath.

[jon12345]

NY has banned smoking in restaraunts, bars, and workplaces.  The last place I worked people had to smoke in the parking lot away from the building, and if people threw butts on the ground they had to pick them up.  Another place I worked did not allow smoking because of the mosaic virus could infect some of the plants there.  Even though smoking is banned in bars, a lot of people still smoke in them.  Their reasoning is if you don't like it, leave - there are bars that do enforce the rule and you can go to them.  In NY they are proposing another tax, that would provide additional funding to help build a cancer hospital and stop smoking programs.  I also know people who are on nebulizers and smoke, and a coworkers father almost burned because his oxygen tank wasn't off when he lit up.

[flip]

I think the initiative started when the states and govt. found out how much they were spending taking care of those that smoked for years and were dieing because of cancers and emphazima.  Now, if the states, cities whoever wants to pass a bill to regulate where people smoke fine great.  I don't think they have the right to tell a private business owner what can and can't be done inside their establishment (unless smoking is outlawed entirely).  I don't smoke, never have but when I walk into a bar or where ever I know what to expect.  I know I'll smell like an ash tray at the end of the night and may feel like poop but I know what I'm in for before  hand.  I don't need the govt. telling me what is and isn't good for me, next they will limit the number of beers I can buy a night...week...month. >:( 
Our city is considering an initiative to ban smoking in all public places, which I know for sure it will shut down several bars and restaraunts.  The greater good, huh :

[asy]

Let them smoke - as long as they can totally control the smoke, and I don't mean little signs that say "smoking section". 

Um... yeah... It's sorta like the peeing and non-peeing ends of a pool...   

asy :D

[EZ]

I quit about a year ago and glad of it. I dont miss it and hate the smell of smoke. If all the smokers new how I feel, health wise, I think they all would quit.
EZ

[Phorester]

Dadgumit, ASY, you just beat me to that... ;D  I was going to say that a currently popular comedian, can't remember his name,  said that having a smoking section in a public resturant is like having a peeing section in a public pool.

For the record, I voted to let the establishment decide.  Then let the marketplace dictate if he stays open or not.  I don't frequent bars or smokey resturants myself  anymore.  They lost me as a customer. That's the marketplace at work.   There's lots of nonsmoking resturants available for people who don't like it.

[Max sawdust]

Um... yeah... It's sorta like the peeing and non-peeing ends of a pool...   

asy :D

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I enjoy this discussion, Ron thanks for the Poll.
Max

[SwampDonkey]

I could never figure out those silly little signs on tables either. How does the smoke know it's not suppose to flow over into the non-smoking section with all these fans blowing it around the room?  :  :D :D

[Frickman]

A few months ago I visited a sick friend in a hospital in West Virginia. In a central courtyard the hospital had installed a "smoking room" for employees and visitors. It was a prefab type of building similar to office trailers you see at construction sites, but set up permanantly at ground level. It had some kind of exhaust system that filtered out the smoke.

You weren't allowed to smoke anywhere in the facility or on the grounds except in this room, where they contained all the fumes. What a great idea! I commended some of the staff for this smoking room. It completely seperates the smokers from everyone else.

[sawguy21]

Now they are talking about making smoking while driving in a car illegal, as too many people throw their butts out the window (cigarette ones, that is ;) )
asy :D

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Seriously, I agree with the laws governing smoking in a confined area but I do have a problem with the goobermint saying butt out in yer own back yard because the smoke drifting over the fence distresses the neighbour while he is burning a sacrificial chicken on the bbq.

[Ironwood]

My Dad has smoked for ever, since he was probably 11-12. Still does at 63. We'll probably bury him for it. My Great grandma (Dad's side) live to be 92, she was a chain smoker and drank a case of beer a week  and hard liquer to boot, maybe Dad has the same genes. I despise the smell, gives me headaches, I bitch at the new counter guy at NAPA, tell him he's trying to kill me. I do like some pipe smoke, reminds me of my Grandpa (Mom's side). Go figure!

  I don't mind others smoking, as long as they don't contaminate MY AIR. I view it as natural selection, just like doing drugs, Hey knock yourself out buddy just don't drive under the influence, or come to my place looking for stuff to steal to support your habit( I'll guarentee that I will feel my, and my families lives are threatened ;)). Just don't contaminate MY AIR!!!!

[Don_Papenburg]

Smoke from most anything gives me a bad headache . I always hate the fall on a nice day I can't go to town because the air is filled with smoke .
But if the goverment bans smokeing  it won't be long and they will try to ban the use / posesion of guns.  Keep an eye on them varmits!

[Roxie]

I voted to let the business decide.  Let me preface my remarks by saying that my Grandfather was a tobacco farmer in the hills of North Carolina.  I grew up thinking that tobacco smelled wonderful.  Neither of my parents smoked, but I like the smell. 
My mind pictures a group of government officials saying, "Well, we got them to believe that smoking was the devil, now let's go after the overweight, it's not healthy and it offends me to see someone fat."  "We're spending billons of health dollars on obese people and their fat diseases like diabetes and heart attacks."  "Let's create separate rooms for fat people to eat and ban them from public buildings." 
Think that's far fetched?  If ya would have told me 30 years ago that they'd be treating people that smoked like the dregs of society, I wouldn't have believed ya! 
I'm allergic to most perfume.  Estee Lauder can give me an asthma attack like you wouldn't believe.  If I go somewhere and I smell real strong perfume, I move.  I don't blame the woman with the perfume on....it's not her fault.  She didn't wake up that morning and say, "I'm gonna wear some cologne that will make someone sick."  Where's our tolerance?  When will this end? 

[isassi]

You guys notice how everyone tries to shame a smoker? Especially in a public forum? I stood tall, I admit I smoke, and I am cutting back, goal of quitting, for my own health and peace of mind. My stance is still government intrusion. After the smokers have all quit or died and you guys seem to wish for, who is next? As roxie points out, the next target will be the obese. I do not have the statistics in front of me, but weight and lifestyle issues (no exersize) are killing many, perhaps more then direct causes of smoking. As I have heard them called around here, when the smoking nazis get done with eradicating smokers, the fat people will be next, then the lazy..(hard work never killed anyone)...who knows?..will health care costs (cited as the number one reason to eradicate smoking) of the elderly and infirm dictate death chambers? (to keep health care costs low?)...I know, I know, an extreme position, and foolish. I do get sick and tired of hearing it about smokers, smokers rights, and not in my space. Well, fine. I smoke, but in my own vehicle, or back yard. I do not smoke in customers job sites, friends homes, outside of theater doors, ect. I make a concious effort to not subject anyone to my smoke, I never have, I never will, and I never smoke around my kids. I do not throw butts down. This forum, which I have met some of the nicest people, must be disproportionate to normal in one regard. 20% of the population smokes, but I am the only admitted bad habit here, however, the population of the US is 290,000,000. There are less then 800,000 licenced pilots in the US, fewer A&P mechanics, and I bet there are 12 on this forum I have seen or read posted. What I am getting at is the odds of knowing a pilot or mechanic are much, much smaller then obviously, knowing a smoker. Hard to believe I am the only smoker here, and yes, I do hope to be smoke free soon, but not because ofr all the griping at me.  : Sorry for the rant.

[Deadwood]

Maine has new ad campaign going on right now and it starts out like this...

Breath easy...you're in Maine.

We have the toughest smoking laws in the country bar none and they are trying to make it even tougher. I think they are trying to pass a law now that will make it illegal to smoke in a vehicle with children inside. It raises some serious questions about Personal Rights and the ill affects of smoking with non-consenting children.

Personally, I like the idea. I decided to come into this world 2 months early and have under-developed lungs because of it. A person's right to smoke means I can't breath.

[crtreedude]

When you live by yourself - you can be whatever you like. You can leave the dishes in the sink, the bottles all over the place and you don't have to shave unless you want to.

But, when you choose to live with someone, well, lots of things change. This is part of the cost of being social. If you don't like it, you live by yourself.

Smoking is similar. As long as it is you and your lungs - go for it. Oh, and as long as I don't have to pay for  your health care. Freedom means that you can AFFORD your freedom in my book. I have the freedom NOT to work, if I can afford to - but I sure don't have the freedom to have you pay for me to sit around all day.

If you are in your own seat - well and good, but if you weigh 700 lbs and are seated next to me on a plane for the next 10 hours - can I complain?

If I walk out of a door at a building and cigarette butts are everywhere - if I am the owner of the building, I am liable to be angry. If I am a worker there, I just might decide to work somewhere else. If I own a business in there, I just might decide that is a bad first impression on my customers... Can the business owner sue the smokers for loss of revenue? It would be an interesting court case.

If your smoking has no impact on me, I have nothing to say, but if it does, I have a lot to say. If you cause my wife to be sick for 3 days because you decided to light up next to her, I might have more than just words with you... And that goes for stinky aftershave too. By the way, part of our employee training is - NO AFTERSHAVE OR PERFUME. Why? Because no one seems to know how much is enough. Sheesh.

My issue really has nothing to do with who kills themselves off - after all, we are all going to die eventually. No, it is only about your right to smoke interfering with anothers right to breathe. If someone's weight interferes with my right to snooze on a plane, I will be irritated too.

If a person drives like a maniac on a public road - I want to have the police pull him/her over. If you want to drive like a maniac on a race track - go for it. I might even buy tickets. Your life is your own to do with as you will - as long as you don't involve me.

As the world gets more crowded, we have to recognize that the space around us is populated by others - and act accordingly.

just my dos colones

[asy]

Wow, not sure I coulda said it better than Fred did.

* asy throws her dos colones in with Fred's.

Must add this:

I did NOT condemn anyone for smoking. Not ever. I sure condemn people for smoking around me, coz it makes me sick, as does heavy perfume, and truck exhaust, etc...

I understand addiction, I have my own addictions. Quite a number of them. Not one of them will harm you (except if you are sitting next to me on 10 hour flights, hehe, although I'm not 700lb).

Since getting together with Andy, I have put ALL my perfumes away, and have had to stop using scented deodorant, as even the smallest smells make him really sick. I can't open cleaning chemicals when he's home, and I can't vacuum if he's home or expected home in the next few hours...

I guess it's not telling you what to do, it's asking you not to do it to me.

asy :D

[Roxie]

Keep giving up your rights, pretty soon it will be the communist states of America

:D Sorry. 
I didn't interpret this poll as whether or not you are FOR smoking.  I saw it as whether or not you thought the government (federal or state) should make laws regarding using a legal substance on private property. 
Can't smoke in front of your children?  One step away from the government deciding who will have children, and dictating BY LAW how they are to be raised. 
There's a million irritating things out there.....let's make a law for all of them.  I got skin cancer from sun exposure when I was a child......time for a law requiring all parents to put sun screen on their children.  Childhood diabetes is at an all time high....time for a law forbidding the distribution of sugar to a minor. 

[crtreedude]

Actually Roxie, haven't you heard?

Not enough sun causes cancer too... Internal cancers from not enough Vitamin "D", so too much sunscreen is a problem...

[crtreedude]

If you neighbor likes Rap music played when you need to sleep - is it okay for the police to force him to stop?

I don't think this is anything new - as we learn more about the impact of certain behaviors, then expect those behaviors to be limited. The rule does not change - you can do what you wish - as long as it affects no one else.

As we learn that certain things affect others more than we knew, then the rules change to reflect that.

For example, asbestos was considered the "Wonder Mineral" - well, it also kills. And because of that, laws were passed so that schools, etc. had to spend money to remove it - or stop subjecting kids to it.

You are correct Roxie - the government can go too far. In my opinion, has gone too far in many things. It is a slippery slope and the only way NOT to slide down it is those who want rights, to respect the rights of others not to be infringed on. That has not happened with smoking in my opinion, hence, the gradual scaling back of this right.

[rebocardo]

I voted "dont know" because I don't know what is considered "public".  Is calling a business "public" redefining a piece of private property into "public" use?

Is public a city street, a city side walk, inside a city hall, ?

Is public a private business open to the general public that walks in?

I do not think there should be smoking inside truly "public" buildings such as city halls, government centers, etc. Just as there should be no spitting, swearing, or drawing on the walls. A gentleman should remove his hat when entering and passing the flag, though I would not want it a law.

A business should decide for itself if it wants to allow smoking and where.

imo, Smoking on public streets would be okay as long as there is a $0.25 return fee on each butt. I have never seen a smoker walking along the street put a butt out and save it. It usually goes in the gutter, swere hole, or unto the sidewalk.

I rather put up with my neighbor's annoying nasty habit then have my freedom eroded with another government law.

[SwampDonkey]

 smiley_beatnik

[Patty]

The less the government interferes with my life the better. No laws should be made to restrict legal activities. If I don't like certain behavior, I can leave. I do not allow cigs to be smoked in my home nor my office, but I only have the right to restrict activity in places that I own. Not everywhere I might want to go.

Being in a smoke filled room gives me a head ache, but so does being in a room full of busy bodies who want to make rules for my behavior.

I voted no to any government regulation for smoking.

[crtreedude]

As long as the Government allows me to thrash a jerk who makes my wife sick - I am all for it.  ;D

[flip]

I think the regulations need to come from that state or local government.  Here's my thoughts:   ban smoking in public buildings not public places, that would be too broad to define.  Allow privately owned businesses to decide how they want to operate and those that allow smoking to post signs at all entrances to notify customers wether they are smoking or non smoking facilities.   Any business though that recieves federal or state funding is automatically a non smoking facility.

There is no bigger turn off to me than to see a pile of butts on the street, anyone caught pitching one should be fined $100.  Smoking does not give one the right to litter.

A lot of this has to do with choice.  When businesses are told how to run their establishment by the local, state or federal government we have give up all fundamental capitalist rights.  Clean air and suitably clean air are debatable and would be nearly impossible to define.  If a business is forced to go no smoke and they close down or loose a lot of revenue because of it who in the end ultimately loses?  I know the bars and food establishments produce a lot more revenue than average Joe and the way our taxes are now who is the city and state going to look to to bridge that gap?  Slippery slope here.  I think it needs to be presented by the local govts. but let the ultimate decision left to the establishment/business owners.  Govt. facilities are a different story, their land their rules.

[thurlow]

My grammar school principle, whom I really respected, usta' tell a story (probably apocryphal) about an immigrant who had done everything needed to become a naturalized citizen.  Big day came, he stood before the judge, swore his oath or whatever it took.  Came out into the hallway just ecstatic, twirling around, swinging his arms, shouting, "I'm free, I'm free."  Happened to hit a fellow in the nose who was passing by who cautioned him to watch what he was doing.  He said, "But you don't understand, I'm free, I'm free."  The fellow's response was, "Your freedom ends where my nose begins". 

[SwampDonkey]

Some people who smoke might not like what I am about to say, but I'll be brief. Smokers are not as productive at work as non-smokers and I've seen this weather it's in an office or in a potato packaging facility. Their whole routine revolves around that cigarette. For all you non smokers, just get out a note pad and jot down all the time outs at work the smoker takes in a month and add that total up and multiply by the hourly wage that person is paid.  Who's paying now? :

[Patty]

OK, maybe if the government owns the building they can say whether or not I can smoke in it. But that is the ONLY time I will allow them to modify a legal behavior of mine.   (hopefully)

[janet]

This got interesting.  I do smoke, and am sorry I do in many ways, but I AM a person who gets home with all the butts in her purse and pockets.  I have NEVER dropped a butt anywhere.  I smoke outside.  I assume I still occasionally bother some people, but I try very hard not to.  If I know I am, I´m gone or the cigarette is.  

And I have always been very productive at anything I do.  I suppose it might have slowed down in the U.S. if I´d had to go outside...

I voted ¨yes¨ because I don´t think it is a right to smoke in public places, but there have been good points made about what is defined as ¨public¨.  I once left a restaurant in CA, walked a BLOCK away, and got yelled at by a waiter who ran out after me.  That´s a bit much, I think.

Even though I think the government gets into our lives WAY too much, this is a public health issue....costs us all.
Janet

[Don_Papenburg]

Did you forget to pay the waiter?

[WH_Conley]

I smoke, most of what I have been reading seems to be "smoker's are slobs" is the apparent gist of the matter. Most of the complaints about littering are not because a person smokes, it's just pure bad manners. How many gum wrappers do you see on the street. I live in what used to be the Burley belt, insurance agent told me that this part of the country has the highest number of smokers per capita in the nation, but there is more trash on the street than butts.

My mother had a lung taken out when I was 2 years old, she never smoked a day in her life. I never smoked in her presence. I will never go into someone's house and light up unless they do first. If in close proximity to someone I will ask if it bothers them, if so I will move, if they follow, their on ther own.

I do not smoke in public buildings, except our courthouse, old building, tall ceilings, ash can is by the window that is always open, have never seen smoke in the place.

I don't think I have ever seen a restaurant or store that did not have the ash can by the front door, only other place to stand is in the flower bed they probably wouldn't apperciate that.

Pet gripe I have is the VA hospitals, had a buddy in there one time, when visiting him, had leg amputated, I could go outside and smoke, he didn't have the option. Old men sitting in wheel chairs, outside in November, I was wearing a heavy coat, they had on hospital gowns, so they could smoke. Some of these men had maybe an arm or leg gone, I'm sure a good percentage in the service of our country so everybody could express their own opinion were treated like second class citizens. Why couldn't they run people like me outside to smoke and give these worn out old men a warm place?

I know that I waste too much time smoking, only sawed 52 crossties today and 800 bdft of lumber on a LT40HD24G. Probably why we didn't get more than that is that the guy that helps me smokes too. As far as tracking time, I roomed up with a guy one time and remarked that the only I saw him smoke was on the job. He replied that if you just stood there the boss would get on his case, if he lit up he could get a couple of minutes and nothing would be said.

Time for me to smoke a last one and go to bed.

[asy]

I smoke, most of what I have been reading seems to be "smoker's are slobs" is the apparent gist of the matter. Most of the complaints about littering are not because a person smokes, it's just pure bad manners.

Never said smokers were slobs. Unfortunately you can't dictate where the smoke blows.  I agree that throwing butts is bad manners. The one I saw the other day took the cake, a young bloke rolled the window of his car down, and threw the cellophane wrap and inner htingy of his cigarette pack out...  THAT's a slob.  I thought, I bet he'd have a go at me coz the inside of my car is a disaster, but I don't leave a trail of debris wherever I roam...

Also, there are slobs of every variety, the point I made early on is that *most* slobs aren't throwing lit fuses away.

asy :D

[sawguy21]

I roomed up with a guy one time and remarked that the only I saw him smoke was on the job. He replied that if you just stood there the boss would get on his case, if he lit up he could get a couple of minutes and nothing would be said.

Time for me to smoke a last one and go to bed.

I very briefly, for about one nanosecond, considered taking up smoking to get the extra breaks the smokers enjoyed. Our shipper always complained that he was over worked and could not keep up yet took five minutes every hour to go outside with a cigarette. That was over 1/2 hour of non productive time every day. I also had to maintain the lawn which meant  cleaning up the butts that missed the can, usually by three or four feet. That REALLY got my goat >:(

[crtreedude]

When I used to smoke, I had no idea what it was like for people down wind - after all, I couldn't smell. Around that door where everyone was standing for a person who is alergic to the smoke is like running the guantlet.  :(

Our choices cannot harm others. When I choose to do something that harms others - that is when the law comes in. If we all would be considerate of others - well, we wouldn't need any laws.

For example, I really don't care if you have a fancy muffler on your car that makes you sound like you are a Nascar racer. Your money - your choice. But if you fire it up while I am sleeping... then I do care.

Most laws come into effect because the population which has a right, doesn't respect the rights of those around them. Yes, not all smokers are slobs - but, when your buddy throws down a butt - do you yell "Pick that DanG thing up!" ? After all - it is your right to smoke there that your buddy is putting at risk.

It has been my experience that around the places where smokers congregate - there is trash everywhere. There has to be a lot of "looking the other way" while people are throwing down their butts.

If smokers do not wish to be policed - they have to police themselves. Unfortunately, many times a person who is the slob will say "Butt out!"

[isassi]

And don't forget the irony of the sin taxes we pay! Here in the common sense state of Oklhaoma, you can go in a convenience store and buy rolling papers. You walk out the door with them, you better have a can of prince albert in your pocket or you can be arrested for possesion of paraphanalia (drug stuff). Oklahoma collects taxes on it, the store profits, and you take the risk. Cigarettes are the same....rather then make them illegal, nearly every state except the tobacco producers tax the product to "pay for health care, education, ect....." Kinda like traffic fines. It is funny how money makes it allright. Oklahoma passed a new tax a year ago on cigarettes, now over 1.55 per pack in tax. WOW...reasoning: you will quit, we will financially punish you til you do, and we want to fund cancer treatment, health care, ect.....now the tax revenues are falling short of projections...reason: smokers are quitting.....nope....polls find they are going to Indian smoke shops, across state lines, ect, ect...We just passed the lottery here and joined the powerball game, all because Oklahomans were driving to Texas and Kansas to spend money...now we are trying to guess the next move in Oklahoma.......By the way, I noticed yesterday, I smoked a total of 16 cigarettes, yep, 16.....I don't smoke in my home, and as stated before, I am cutting back to try to quit, for my own peace of mind. But I am not quitting due to the pressure or popularity of it. It has been my experience the more you yell and scream at someone, the more resistant they become. At least I found out I wasn't alone... ;)

[SwampDonkey]

I wanted to a give a real life spiel on your couple last sentences Roxie as it pertains to an uncle I once had. Also, pertains to about 8 other people who grew up with my mother within a mile of grandmother's house. I'll just say it never worked out too well for them. 

[Ron Wenrich]

joasis wrote:

"We just passed the lottery here and joined the powerball game, all because Oklahomans were driving to Texas and Kansas to spend money"

But, now they won't be buying as much gas for the trips, and gasoline tax revenues will decline.   :D

[CHARLIE]

No Ron, the Oklahoma guv'ment will just increase the gas taxes because less gas is being sold. ;D

[Modat22]

Man, all this talk about smoking is giving me the shakes. I haven't had a smoke since 1-3-06.

[beenthere]

Modat
Congrats, and you have been through a lot, IMO. Keep it up so's you don't have to go through the 'bad' part again.

[Modat22]

Modat
Congrats, and you have been through a lot, IMO. Keep it up so's you don't have to go through the 'bad' part again.

I've been avoiding the forum because I've felt so mean and just plain evil.

[Radar67]

Modat,
     I quit day before yesterday, and I know what you mean!  >:( I've been trying to replace my craving with sawing. I figure if I stay busy enough I'll be able to get through it.

Stew

[woodbowl]

     I quit day before yesterday, and I know what you mean! 

You did? Well ............. good for you!  I've heard that cold turkey is the best way and that it will stick if you can get to the 2 week point.

[Radar67]

it will stick if you can get to the 2 week point.

It's definitely gonna be tough, been smoking for 23 years.

Stew

[crtreedude]

Just hang in there - you are tougher than it is!

[Modat22]

It's definitely gonna be tough, been smoking for 23 years.

Stew

I just counted my fingers and toes, I've been smoking for 23 years myself. I have a couple of things that might help you out.

1. Loads of snacks around (you might want to use vegetables or your gonna gain 80 pounds)

2. plan work for 3 days in advance, You'll finish that work in 2 or less days.

3. Stay clear of your smoking friends for awhile.

4. Keep a small tin of vic salve in your pocket for the days that your around other smokers. Put a dap under your nose so the smoke doesn't tempt you.

5. Really deep breathing, each nicotine attach lasts about 5 min, Deep breathing.

Now I'm saying this stuff and doing it myself but I'm still irritable as heck.

[Radar67]

Thanks for the info Modat. I'll keep you all posted.

Stew

[sprucebunny]

I quit 8 days ago about an hour before having a molar extracted. Big hole in my gums was a big help to start.....   I'm not very grouchy.

I've quit two other times for 2 years each time. It's going to last this time.

I recomend cranberry and other fruit juices and nuts, particularly almonds.

It's all in your mind. Continue to review all the reasons to quit.
I refuse to be held hostage by a stupid and expensive habit that is bad for me both short and long term. It also leads to tooth loss and i got plenty of genes for that already :

[Chris Burchfield]

I was dumb and stupid by starting smoking in seventh grade. Four Uncles, one Aunt and my dad lost to some form of cancer. I'm 47 now, quit, started, quit, started, quit and started back again. When I say quit, I mean 2, 3 & 4 months at a time. Every laim excuse in the world to justify starting back again. Because I can identify this, I think I'm getting smarter. My dad had quit smoking and drinking before he left this world in March of 98. The odds are against me. I started smoking outside from the time my first born son came home from the hospital. I figured someone that small needed every advantage in the world. Moved into our first house with a fireplace 6 years to the day we were married. Started smoking inside with my head up the chiminey. Fire up a piece of newspaper to start a draft. Now, I never smoke in the barn (period.) I never smoked while hauling hay, though I did chew. I'll build up a head to quit another day.

[beenthere]

Chris, that's a sad tale.

Years ago (late 50's) the thing to do was to offer a smoke to anyone around before lighting up ones' own. Just bein polite, I guess. I'd answer, "no thanks, don't smoke".  Invariably the response was "You're smart". 
I never thought of it as being 'smart', but that I 'couldn't' hack it.  I knew because I had hay fever real bad and breathing was real important to me, as I'd been too many times fighting for air in my swollen-up lung passages. Cig smoke just tightened my chest like being in a clamp. I suspect the emphasyma people get later in years after smoking is very similar to what I experienced (and do today if I get into hay dust and/or around horses, dogs and cats).  Gasping for air is frightening, sorta. 

[Larry]

Well, guess just to show it can be done...40 year smoker but I'm close to being smoke free for two years.  Cold turkey and the first couple of months are the worst.

Figure I'm saving bout around $200 a month that I can now spend on my other addictions...new tools and fishing stuff. ;D

Wasn't planning on commenting on this thread as I have real strong views that would offend some people, but couldn't resist adding something that might help someone to quit.

Need encouragement, help, or support in quitting send me an IM or call me.

[Phorester]

Good for you Larry.  I don't smoke myself so I don't know firsthand the tremendous addiction that cigarettes obviously create. 

My father smoked most of his life from his early teen years.  In his early 60s he started having trouble breathing.  Went to the doctor who said if you don't quit smoking you will be carrying around an oxygen tank to breathe this time next year.  That scared him so much that he took out the half-pack of cigarettes in his pocket and threw them in the doctor's trash can.  He never smoked after that.

Quit cold turkey after smoking for over 50 years.  I was amazed at his willpower.  It was a rough couple years after that, he chewed candy constantly, gained 30 pounds, but felt much better as time went on.  Never had to go on oxygen either.

[Max sawdust]

Well, guess just to show it can be done...40 year smoker but I'm close to being smoke free for two years.  Cold turkey and the first couple of months are the worst.
Figure I'm saving bout around $200 a month that I can now spend on my other addictions...new tools and fishing Need encouragement, help, or support in quitting send me an IM or call me.

Well I am only on Year25 with nicoteen been smoke free for 10+ years but addicted to chew.
My dad had quad bypass around 60 and he quite chew after that.  (He is know 80) (He smoked for 30 years before going to chew.)  I need to end my addiction to nicoteen >:(
Keep up the good work.  You are a better man than me :
Max

[crtreedude]

My key to quiting and staying quiting (besides not wanting to die quick - like instantly from a wife who is alergic to smoke  ) is not thinking of myself as a smoker.

In the early years, I would remind myself - if I had a cig, I would immediately have to quit again, and go through it again. I had quit, and I wasn't going back to being a smoker - no matter if I accidentally had a cig again.

Remember how hard this is to quit - and then imagine what it is like to do it again, and again... Helps keep you from backsliding, it sure did for me.

[EZ]

When I first started smoking I remember an older guy tell me,(If you dont start something, you dont have to quit.)
I didnt have to quit, I wanted to, but I wanted to before I had to. I think I said that right. ;D
EZ

[IMERC]

imposed control.

[maple flats]

I voted the business should decide. I smoked until 1974 and hate the smell of smoke. I do however think a business should have to put up a BIG sign at the entrance that says if smoking is allowed. This sign should be big enough to read from your car, then the decision to enter or not is up to the public. Government should not be taking away any people's rights, less government is better government. I will vote with my patronage or lack thereof.

[wiam]

I think the employees of a businell should have a say.  They do not really have a choice.

Will

[extrapolate85]

For the record, I don't smoke and dislike being anywhere around it. I lived in Europe for years and things are slowly changing there (notably in Italy and Spain), but by in large, the percentage of smokers is much higher in Europe than in North America and they smoke everywhere. However, on average, Europeans live longer than Americans or Canadians, and their health care costs are much lower. Perhaps we should encourage smoking amongst those representing frivolous malpractice lawsuits (I would be willing to send in my tax-deductible donation for a carton of Lucky Strike filterless to the ambulance-chasers association), discourage it amongst the general population, and we would all live longer. At least we could all afford healthcare easier. Whoops! Sorry, I am heading off on a tangent.

Seriously, A fair amount of companies like Boise Building (the old Boise Cascade company), Riley Creek Timber, no longer allow the use of tobacco products (including snoose) on company property - even outside! I suppose that since, they are paying the lion-share of the health care costs of their employees and it is their property; they have the right, but it must be tough if you are a smoker.

[woodnut]

Hey all, might as well start with something I did well 20 years ago when I was 25 and all the way back to 2nd grade. Should they ban smoking in public places? Probably. Government Is there For our protection-and for a few too many other folks, not to change the subject.

[Qweaver]

I quit smoking 30 years ago but I believe that smokers have a right to smoke wherever they want as long as they do not inflict their smoke on others.  Let the owners decide where and if smoking is allowed in their place.  How many non-smokers burn wood in a fireplace and "inflict" their smoke on others?  Live and let live.
Quinton

[Cedarman]

If I was an employee that did not smoke in a business that allowed smoking, I would either put up with it or quit. In the restaurant business, I could probably find a smoker in a non smoking establishment and work out a trade.  Jobs are too plentiful to put up with one you don't like or be at at place you don't want to be. 

Can I get someone to spray the woods for ticks so I can be sure I don't get Lyme disease when I log trees?  I want everyone else to alter their lives so that my whims are catered to.

I don't care for smoking, so I avoid smoke as much as possible.

[WH_Conley]

Cedarman, wouldn't work, too simple.

[SwampDonkey]

First off, this isn't ment as an attack..that being said.. The smoker vs the non smoking wood fire user doen't fly with me because I've seen forest fire smoke haze the air alot thicker than any chimney smoke. In the last 8 years there have been 3 big fires up in Quebec that filled the air so full of smoke it was like standing next to the fire. Who are we gonna sue for forest fires?? The government? because they didn't spend enough tax dollars to patrol every mile of forest for arsons and lightning strikes?  :

[Max sawdust]

Forest fires what about  irresponsible smokers that drop their butt in a tinderbox forest, or throw it out the car window.   ;)

I actually worry about that when it is real dry, any kind of fire is bad in a dry forest. 

Max

[SwampDonkey]

I worry about it from mid April to the end of October every year. It don't have to be bone dry for crown fires in balsam and spruce. There was one wing nut that was bailing straw on the farm and set the fields on fire and left the place. I went up to the upper farm and it was 100 feet from my woods, had to put the fire out before it got into the dry weeds, and then the softwoods.  : Father never burned fields in his life and I had told this nut about making fires earlier that day, when I seen some bales burning, that it wasn't allowed. You can't tell some people anything.  : Little hard to sue for damages from a guy living from cheque to cheque. Lets see $600/acre for scarifying, reforestation, new seedlings and tending, plus 7 years of growth lost, on 60 acres.