Covid

[Peter Drouin]

Greens are a good place to get Vitamins. Now Ann is gone, 5 years come Dec 4. :'( I don't eat many greens. I don't like to cook or clean the mess after. Sometimes it's a burnt hamburger and a raw egg for lunch,
I know my health has gone down some, Had a stroke already, In a way I don't care.
I can't tell you how much I miss her.
And my shoulder hurts bad from the shot all the time. How long has it been? 2 + years. My doctor says nothing He can do.
I do eat the alphabet of Vitamins by the hand full every day. :D
Just asking about them so I might cut back some. :D

[doc henderson]

a good diet is a great place to start.  a multi vitamin is great.  some extra vit C and zinc is fine.  If you have a documented deficiency or are taking a medication that uses it up, or requires more of a certain vitamin, it should be replaced.  The fat-soluble vitamins can build up and cause toxicity if you take too much.  Vit K is the antidote for coumadin.  If you take isoniazid for TB, you need to take vit. B6.  you need B12 and folate to make red blood cells.  B12 comes from red meat and takes years to deplete.  folate is green leafy vegetables and takes months to deplete.

[doc henderson]

this one is long, but also has more info for those interested.

vitamins fat soluble

this is more of a summary and more readable.

fat soluble vitamins

[Hilltop366]

Things I heard that may or may not be true. :D

I know a guy that has really bad blood clot problems, he told me that his doctor told him not to eat greens because it would make it worse, he said it was because of the vitamin k.

Another friend would take lots of vitamin c any time she thought she was getting a cold or anyone she knew had a cold, she ended up with a bad case kidney stones and was told it could have been caused or made worse by taking all the extra vitamin c.

[SwampDonkey]

K2 you get mostly from fermented veggies like sour kraut.

[Peter Drouin]

Well, I guess I'll just take one handful a week now. ;D

[Ianab]

nother friend would take lots of vitamin c any time she thought she was getting a cold or anyone she knew had a cold, she ended up with a bad case kidney stones and was told it could have been caused or made worse by taking all the extra vitamin c.

Kidneys are the organs that are filtering waste and excess material from your bloodstream. As you excrete any Vit C that's above what your body actually needs, it makes sense that taking excessive amounts would creates more work for your kidneys. 

On the Covid subject. This is a summary of the pandemic in the Cook Islands. It's an interesting if not very scientific "lab experiment" that suggests what might have happened if the vaccine was available sooner? Basically being an isolated Island they avoided the pandemic completely until Feb 2022, at which time 97% of the population (12+) had been vaccinated. Once the borders opened up they started seeing cases, several hundred a day, and about 1/2 the population tested positive over the next 3 months. But from a population of ~15,000, they recorded only 2 deaths. By the time we visited in August 2022 (A trip booked and paid for in 2019 !), it was all over. Got off the plane and the customs lady says, "you can take your mask off now".  


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_Cook_Islands


Having been there several times now I tend to believe their numbers. You can't hide mass deaths in a small town where everyone knows everyone else. The whole Island of Rarotonga is really one small town, but everyone has internet etc. (it's not some dodgy 3rd world dump). 

[twar]

I know a guy that has really bad blood clot problems, he told me that his doctor told him not to eat greens because it would make it worse, he said it was because of the vitamin k.

This makes sense. I don't know the chemistry behind it, but I do know that people using blood thinners should not go heavy on the kale (and other greens).

[twar]

Vit K is the antidote for coumadin

And I now see this detail from Doc.

[SwampDonkey]

Roughly the same demographics as here in NB. We had only slightly more than 1/10th of 1 percent death rate with all the years and deaths combined. If looked at annually, the number diminishes big time with the less lethal strains. Then also separate the deaths as a cause versus incidental and the numbers get squeezed a lot more. :D

[21incher]

It's going on around here again lately.  We just got the call our son and 2 of the grandkids have it now. Looks like we will be home alone for Thanksgiving to be safe this year. We were scheduled to go to their home this year. Time to go find a turkey. 

[doc henderson]

Lots to memorize if you go to med school.  fat soluble vitamins (i.e. they do not come out in urine and can build up) and the vit K dependent clotting factors.  2, 7, 9, and 10.  coumadin blocks those.  It can be dangerous if you get too few clotting factors on coumadin.  INR is the international normalized ratio.  labs would do a standard clotting time for pt/ptt.  then you take the patients number and divide by the normal.  if they are normal, it should be about 1.  i.e. 11.2/11.3 is about one.  for a-fib we want you about 2 to 3 timed the normal.  in the old days you had to do the math and had to know the normal for each facility.  artificial heart valves are 2.5 to 3.5.  It takes a while to make clotting factors so take a day or two to normalize slot time with coumadin/warfarin vs intake of vit K.  If you occasionally eat green leafy veggies, then the doc is going up and down on the dose.  so, it is most important to eat vit. K containing food on a very regular basis (a consistent amount) or try to avoid them in a consistent manner.  too little and you have strokes or PEs from a valve producing clots.  your blood is no thinner from a viscosity point of view, but folks thought it was thinner since it leaked out easier.  It is harder to stop bleeding.  These tend to be used in old people who tend to fall and hit their head.  Potentially a very dangerous drug to use.  Lots of factors and patient education.  We can give vit. K and reverse the coumadin in a day or so or give fresh frozen plasma containing factors.  

[Southside]

Basically being an isolated Island they avoided the pandemic completely until Feb 2022,

So they isolated from all exposure until one of the less dangerous varieties made it's way around. Wonder how much of a factor that was in the outcome. 

[doc henderson]

our community of 45K ran about 3 months behind the bigger cities.

[Hilltop366]

Basically being an isolated Island they avoided the pandemic completely until Feb 2022,

So they isolated from all exposure until one of the less dangerous varieties made it's way around. Wonder how much of a factor that was in the outcome.

No doubt it made a difference but I'm thinking it was part of the plan along with to delay until the virus and treatments were better understood, not all getting it at once and overwhelm hospitals, better controls over the spread of the virus.

[doc henderson]

It really only works in small communities, or under strict government control (think China) or both.  We tend to not do what we are told here.  I am proud to be a part of that group as well.  Lots of unintended consequences when you are dealing with 330 million folks.

[gspren]

Right or wrong, smart or dumb, wife and I got our covid boosters today. Our primary care doc said she thought we should.

[doc henderson]

I think the odds are in your favor to be more helpful, than not.  The newer strains are less virulent.  Older folks are at increased risk from the disease.  myself included.

[Jeff]

I'm over this. This topic has been discussed to death since the chinese turned it lose on us. Further discussion on this topic serves this Forestry Forum in zero ways. 

Hereby locked.