Timber Frame Finish--Polyurethane?

[tafollaj]

Hi everyone,
After some delays, I am finally ready to pour my slab and finish the frame for my 120 ft2 studio/office. The frame is mostly ponderosa (there may be some sugar pine, not sure) and I am going to white wash the frame using Minwax Solid or semi-transparent wood stain. I bought some tung oil from Milkpaint, but it just takes too long to dry. Would polyurethane perform well, and if so any tips or brand recommendations. The lumber is bone dry and I am working outdoors with 109 degree daytime temperatures (northern L.A. County-Mojave desert). Thanks!
Al

[scsmith42]

The absolute best finish that I'm aware of for a timberframe is Heritage Natural Finish Original. This is the old Landark formula and an all-around excellent finish.

It will let the timbers breathe w/o having the finish lift or cloud.

https://www.heritagenaturalfinishes.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=22

I would never use an oil based poly on a timberframe; the finish will develop a yellow tint over the years.  Water based poly - maybe, but only if I couldn't get the Heritage.

[doc henderson]

In the elements even spar urethane will peel and be a real pain in this application.  Cabots has quality products, and I have heard of an Australian log oil ect.

[tafollaj]

Thank you for the feedback scsmith42 and Doc. I had looked into the heritage natural but I was under the impression it took just as long to dry as the tung oil, but looking further into it, it seems like it may dry a little bit faster. I have not been able to find the complete instructions or pic of the back of the container to read technical information, but it does say on the website to not apply over any other finishes. Since I am white washing the frame, this might not work. I may have to order a sample and just try it out on a test piece. I'll also look into Cabot, since I have not checked them at all. In the long run, the frame will be in an air conditioned enclosed space, so I am more concerned about the harsh conditions during application than over time. Thanks again!

edit:  According to Gemini, the google ai, it takes 24-48 hrs for a full cure of the heritage natural finish. Although ai is accurate much of the time, it is ridiculously off-base other times. Does the 24-48 hr cure time ring true in your experience?

[doc henderson]

my guess is it will be dry to touch but may still off gas and have odor for a while.  Is the timber planed and nice, or more rough sawn?  so, none of the frame will have heat or UV exposure?  that makes it a little better so more things will work.  a penetrating finish is easier to touch up than a film.  If your whitewash is a stain only, then you should be fine, as long as it does not have a varnish in it.  I agree with testing it.  Pics would be nice if you can figure it out.  you should be able to look up a safety data sheet and get more detail on contents.

[doc henderson]

Heritage Natural Finishes

under contact us they have email and phone numbers.  some companies make you fill out a form.  this looks like one that wants you to call and ask questions.  lots of good products.  the only thing good about Cabot's is you can buy it at Loewe's and local places.

[Daburner87]

I keep seeing Woodrich Timber Oil being highly recommended. Anyone here use it? I don't know all the specs on it or anything, but Heritage 5 gallon is $459.  Woodrich is $235.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014GCUEQC/?coliid=I32XIAAYFQZO6M&colid=42CO1FO7HFKT&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

[doc henderson]

looks like it has stain in it.  Might call them or look at the MSDS sheet and see what is in it.  It may have more solvent, so you are not getting as much product as you think.  Or the other product learned from John Deere and are proud of the name they have made for themselves.

[tafollaj]

Thanks Doc. I emailed my question earlier but no response as of yet. I went to order a sample for $12 but delivery is $20, so I'll probably just order a gallon or two and if I don't use it this time I'll use it on the next one. 

[doc henderson]

Wellll.  I would call and speak with customer support and ask your questions and see if they can send you a sample.  You do not need a quart or pint even.  also ask if they have a sale or discount code.  I did that with an ag place selling cotton picker spindle cleaner.  the shipping is 99 bucks no matter if you buy a 5-gallon pail, or four, or a 55-gallon drum.  I ordered four to make the shipping less per pail and noticed a discount code box.  I asked do you have a discount code?  He said, yes, "thanks 10".  It took another 10% off.  I remember looking forever for the old-style fuel diverter that trucks with multiple tanks had along the seat.  you had to be quick, and things kept going even if there was some sputtering.  I finally found a supplier and filled out the online questioner.  In a few days I got a call from a guy with the company, and he wanted to know how many gross I needed.  I told him "You got to be kidding.  I been looking for months for this."  He said Well as a potential customer (wink wink) I will send you a sample and you let me know how many more you need.  no charge.     times may be changed.  You can let them know how much you will need if it meets your needs.  cannot hurt.    

[tafollaj]

Great idea Doc. I'm building a couple more tiny frames since I have the lumber, and more after that, so it wouldn't hurt to ask. I'll post test result pics when I get to it. Thanks again!

[scsmith42]

Thank you for the feedback scsmith42 and Doc. I had looked into the heritage natural but I was under the impression it took just as long to dry as the tung oil,

edit:  According to Gemini, the google ai, it takes 24-48 hrs for a full cure of the heritage natural finish. Although ai is accurate much of the time, it is ridiculously off-base other times. Does the 24-48 hr cure time ring true in your experience?

Yes re the cure time.  Typically 24 - 48 hours. It's a tung oil / pine rosin / beeswax based finish, that is mixed in a proprietary manner and formula.

Having said that, because you are whitewashing your timbers, I would not use an oil based finish such as Heritage.  Oil finishes harden "inside the wood", as opposed to a film finish that hardens "on the wood".  The whitewash will prevent the oil from soaking in well, so you'd be wasting your money.

I'd look into a high quality film finish.  If outdoors, I'd consider General Finishes Exterior 450.  For indoor use, there are lots of options.  A friend of mine is a nationally recognized expert on finishing (Jeff Karges).  I spoke to Jeff about your project and he recommended a water based pre-catalyzed lacquer finish from Mohawk.  It's a spray finish and available in a semi-gloss 60 sheen.  PN M640-21607.  It's used on kitchen cabinets and very durable, plus it won't yellow over time.

If you go with Poly, Jeff recommended a water based cross linked urethane finish such as one of the Bona of Benjamin Moore floor finishes.  It can be applied with a brush, roller or wipe on, unlike the Pre-cat lacquer which is thinned for spraying.

[tafollaj]

scsmith42, thanks for the education in finishes. I've already doubled what I know about finishes just looking up these options! Also, thanks for bringing it up with your expert Jeff. Since I already had Tung oil, I did two coats so far over a test piece, and since the semi-transparent stain is water-based and so sparse, and I'm just wiping it on and off within 20 seconds, it seems to be absorbing pretty well. I'll probably do one more coat, but I feel like it is making the white wash turn slightly yellow, though that might just be until full cure. The solid stain did absolutely block out the oil, but that obscures too much of the grain anyways. It's great to have more options if the final look is unacceptable, and I would do well to use the other options on the next frame which will be under similar condition and then compare them if i do use the tung oil. So much more to this craft than the pretty joints. Thanks!

[GRadice]

You seem like you are on your way to a solution but I'll recommend giving Heritage Natural Finishes a call before you decide. It is a one woman operation (Autumn Peterson). I know from experience that she is more than willing to work through whether her products will help you or not.

HNF is about 5 miles from my house. I've met Autumn several times, she supports our local woodworking club, and is member of the board of the Timber Framers Guild.

[Sod saw]

.


My dad used to recommend and use boiled linseed oil and turpentine many times.  He used it with no stain under that oil application.

How does that oil mix fit into your various recommendations and uses?

Can any of your other finishes or stains be applied over the top of that dried oil mix?


. 

[Daburner87]

I keep seeing Woodrich Timber Oil being highly recommended. Anyone here use it? I don't know all the specs on it or anything, but Heritage 5 gallon is $459.  Woodrich is $235.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014GCUEQC/?coliid=I32XIAAYFQZO6M&colid=42CO1FO7HFKT&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

Yea man I see a lot of recommendations from timber framers who use Woodrich.  Seems like good stuff, and much cheaper.

[mike dee]

https://www.sansin.com

Used Sansin Classic on our white pine log home, decent penetration, interior has held up well now for over 25 years now, exterior good for 10 years between applications