Food to fuel, just a sign of whats to come. Limits on purchasing food.

[Norm]

Uhh guys, squirrel's good eating too. Especially after you fatten them up. :D

[ohsoloco]

I saw quite a few people combing through the corn field by my place after the farmer picked it.  Never saw anyone out there doing that before.  One guy must've been out there for over an hour.  Lots of squirrels to feed I guess.

[Dodgy Loner]

Maybe it's time to start plowing under some of those "Manicured" lawns  : ???
  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I don't think you could consider my lawn to be "manicured", but I did take out 5 boxwoods in front of my house and plowed under a good bit of turf so I would have room for a garden.  The green beans and purple hull peas are already poking their heads up

[tcsmpsi]

Uhh guys, squirrel's good eating too. Especially after you fatten them up. :D

Now, Norm, you're talking to an old headsucker here when it comes to eating squirrels. 

I won't mention to Tina that you have even remotely mentioned anything about possibly eating her squirrels.  Geeeezz....I got a chill up my left side just writing that.   

[Radar67]

That brings back memories tcsmpsi. I took my Grandma a mess of squirrels one weekend and she sent them back home with me. Told me not to bring her anymore unless the heads were still attached. 

[DouginUtah]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/01hedin.html?_r=3&ex=1362114000&en=3d2c87b956499ea3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[Primarily of interest to farmers]

Jack Hedin is a farmer in Rushford, Minn.

If you've stood in line at a farmers' market recently, you know that the local food movement is thriving, to the point that small farmers are having a tough time keeping up with the demand.

But consumers who would like to be able to buy local fruits and vegetables not just at farmers' markets, but also in the produce aisle of their supermarket, will be dismayed to learn that the federal government works deliberately and forcefully to prevent the local food movement from expanding. And the barriers that the United States Department of Agriculture has put in place will be extended when the farm bill that House and Senate negotiators are working on now goes into effect.

As a small organic vegetable producer in southern Minnesota, I know this because my efforts to expand production to meet regional demand have been severely hampered by the Agriculture Department's commodity farm program. As I've looked into the politics behind those restrictions, I've come to understand that this is precisely the outcome that the program's backers in California and Florida have in mind: they want to snuff out the local competition before it even gets started.

Last year, knowing that my own 100 acres wouldn't be enough to meet demand, I rented 25 acres on two nearby corn farms. I plowed under the alfalfa hay that was established there, and planted watermelons, tomatoes and vegetables for natural-food stores and a community-supported agriculture program.

All went well until early July. That's when the two landowners discovered that there was a problem with the local office of the Farm Service Administration, the Agriculture Department branch that runs the commodity farm program, and it was going to be expensive to fix.

The commodity farm program effectively forbids farmers who usually grow corn or the other four federally subsidized commodity crops (soybeans, rice, wheat and cotton) from trying fruit and vegetables. Because my watermelons and tomatoes had been planted on "corn base" acres, the Farm Service said, my landlords were out of compliance with the commodity program.

I've discovered that typically, a farmer who grows the forbidden fruits and vegetables on corn acreage not only has to give up his subsidy for the year on that acreage, he is also penalized the market value of the illicit crop, and runs the risk that those acres will be permanently ineligible for any subsidies in the future. (The penalties apply only to fruits and vegetables — if the farmer decides to grow another commodity crop, or even nothing at all, there's no problem.)

In my case, that meant I paid my landlords $8,771 — for one season alone! And this was in a year when the high price of grain meant that only one of the government's three crop-support programs was in effect; the total bill might be much worse in the future.

In addition, the bureaucratic entanglements that these two farmers faced at the Farm Service office were substantial. The federal farm program is making it next to impossible for farmers to rent land to me to grow fresh organic vegetables.
Why? Because national fruit and vegetable growers based in California, Florida and Texas fear competition from regional producers like myself. Through their control of Congressional delegations from those states, they have been able to virtually monopolize the country's fresh produce markets.

That's unfortunate, because small producers will have to expand on a significant scale across the nation if local foods are to continue to enter the mainstream as the public demands. My problems are just the tip of the iceberg.

Last year, Midwestern lawmakers proposed an amendment to the farm bill that would provide some farmers, though only those who supply processors, with some relief from the penalties that I've faced — for example, a soybean farmer who wanted to grow tomatoes would give up his usual subsidy on those acres but suffer none of the other penalties. However, the Congressional delegations from the big produce states made the death of what is known as Farm Flex their highest farm bill priority, and so it appears to be going nowhere, except perhaps as a tiny pilot program.

Who pays the price for this senselessness? Certainly I do, as a Midwestern vegetable farmer. But anyone trying to do what I do on, say, wheat acreage in the Dakotas, or rice acreage in Arkansas would face the same penalties. Local and regional fruit and vegetable production will languish anywhere that the commodity program has influence.

Ultimately of course, it is the consumer who will pay the greatest price for this — whether it is in the form of higher prices I will have to charge to absorb the government's fines, or in the form of less access to the kind of fresh, local produce that the country is crying out for.

Farmers need the choice of what to plant on their farms, and consumers need more farms like mine producing high-quality fresh fruits and vegetables to meet increasing demand from local markets — without the federal government actively discouraging them.

[tcsmpsi]

That brings back memories tcsmpsi. I took my Grandma a mess of squirrels one weekend and she sent them back home with me. Told me not to bring her anymore unless the heads were still attached. 

When I was a freshman in high school, freshman day required us males to dress as females.  We were slaves to the upper classmen who required us to do all sorts of....humiliating antics. Some, even physically damaging.  The highlight of the day was when we were auctioned off with our large, prepared lunches to highest bidders.

At the time, I lived by myself and my resources/abilities designated my eating fare as rather simple.  My...retribution...culminated when my buyer, a town boy, hungry as he was, was not quite ready for my large fare of biscuits and whole roasted squirrels (yes, heads and all).   :D

[treenail]

Last night I was watching a news article about ethanol production and rising food costs. Said that if we backed off producing ethanol for fuel blending, that we make enough of it now that our gasoline costs could rise between 15-20%. Kind of a viscious cycle of sorts. Higher fuel costs=higher food prices. I can't blame the farmers for wanting a piece of the action though, as they aren't to blame for out of sight crude oil speculation. The answer is for our collective governments to get on the stick and fund the reseach necessary and provide development capital to create major alternatives to our fuel uses. We need to treat it like putting a man on the moon. It was done.

Back in the late seventies when we were hit with bad inflation under similar circumstances with proportionally  high oil prices, I decided to become as self sufficient as possible. It's nice to know that if things get really bad, that I can survive a bit longer than most. Over the years since, I've backed off a bit during the good times, but the knowledge is still there. The times that rolled through  then were kind of scarey, but my gut feeling is that we are headed for what will seem worse.

[WDH]

I won't mention to Tina that you have even remotely mentioned anything about possibly eating her squirrels.  Geeeezz....I got a chill up my left side just writing that.   

Tcsmpsi,

Your little yaupons and Tina's squirrels have tender sensibilities, so take care that they do not inadvertantly read this post .

[zopi]

got better than 1/8 acre worked up..taters and maters, squash and beans, corn, pumpkins, etc...

With the economy acting weak, fuel/production costs up, it might not be a bad idea to have some staples laid in...dead sure not a bad idea to grow your own...I fully expect to harvest about 35 bushels of tomatoes this year, most of which will go into sauce..we eat LOTS of pasta..

[WDH]

I didn't think that you liked 'maters........ ???.

[zopi]

I hate RAW 'maters...ma forced me to eat 'em when I was a kid...she regrets that to this day.

I'm quite fond of a pomodoro with homemade italian sausage tho'...

heh..wifey bought me an 80 qt dehydrator for christmas...the second thing i did was raid her tomato
stash for 'sundried' 'maters..

the first of course was jerky...

[Handy Andy]

  I tilled up a garden for my daughter, and one for us as well.  Our frost free date isn't till May 1, so we have a bunch of plants in the window.  Doug's story is another good reason to do away with the farm program. As to the shortage of food this year, has everybody forgot the late freeze that came last year?  Our wheat in my area was about 1/4  of a normal crop.  And it was a very widespread freeze.  The guys in western Kansas finally got a crop, but most of the rest didn't get much.  That is the reason for high prices, not ethanol.  Jim

[StorminN]

I think you guys are being optimistic. There are tons of city folks that have never seen a tomato plant, never mind know how to grow one. Remember, there are some people that will not touch dirt without gloves on!

I feel VERY LUCKY to live where I do, (but is it really luck? I had to fight to move my company out here) my girlfriend works on a 450 acre organic farm, so there is never any shortage of fresh veggies. In the past two years, they started raising pigs and chickens... first laying chickens, now meat chickens too. They are trying very hard to keep everything local and keep it all as sustainable as possible. I'm a firm believer that the less food has to travel, the better... fresher food and less diesel used.

I too did notice the sign at Costco yesterday... five bags of rice per member. I thought things like this would be coming down the pike, but I never thought they would be coming so quickly!

-Norm.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Down here, they grow dryland rice. Areas are soggy from lots of rain, but, never flooded, like rice paddys.

[zopi]

Remember, there are some people that will not touch dirt without gloves on!



-Norm.

and some people don't like steak.....stupid people were put here to make me feel better about myself..lol

[tcsmpsi]

I won't mention to Tina that you have even remotely mentioned anything about possibly eating her squirrels.  Geeeezz....I got a chill up my left side just writing that.   

Tcsmpsi,

Your little yaupons and Tina's squirrels have tender sensibilities, so take care that they do not inadvertantly read this post .

I'm convinced they won't be around the computer anytime soon, so I believe I can safely say...yes...those are the biggest, fattest cat squirrels I've ever seen.   I'm sure Tina and the yaupons see them completely different than I do, from time to time.   :D

[Norm]

TC tell Tina I think as much of squirrels as she does and not just for a food source. I used to hunt the little guys until I discovered they were replanting walnut trees for me and doing a much better job of it than I ever could. The best part is they work for just a small share of the fallen walnuts and a downed ear of corn or two.

I went grocery shopping after my first post on this thread yesterday. They had arm roast for $2.49 lb, and a special on chicken hindquarters for $5.90 for 10lbs. A sack of potatoes was $1.49 for 10lbs. Bread was high but the price for flour wasn't as bad as I expected. I bought enough food to feed me and Patty for a week for $80 with a couple of snacks thrown in. If I'd been really trying I could have made it come in under $60. The lady in front of me had prepared frozen meals, pop, chips, and other things like such. None of the chicken or potatoes or fresh veggies. She used her debit card that was pre-paid by the so called farm program. Can't have the stigma of food stamps you know.

As far as some folks not wanting to get their hands dirty I have no problem with that. Of course when time comes to survive they will be the first to go. Oh and I want to know why the price of corn has given us shortages of rice.

[DanG]

I'm not so sure there is a shortage of rice, or corn either for that matter.  Yesterday's news was, the rice rationing was due to some Wall Street speculators bought up some rice to hoard in case of a future shortage.  This morning's news said it was due to a drought in Australia.  What are we to believe?

I spotted one little discrepancy in the otherwise excellent essay that Doug posted.  How was that guy going to grow "organic" veggies on ordinary cropland?   That didn't ruin the entire story for me, but it did cause my BS detector to quiver a little bit.

I've been thinking lately that the US Government needs to establish a Department of Truth to help the poor, ignorant consumer understand exactly where the money is going.  We all know the farmer isn't getting his fair share, but all the people in the chain claim that they aren't making money, too.  Now, somebody is being less than truthful with us, when the tomato farmer, who takes all the risk and does all the work, only get's a nickel a pound for a product that retails for $1.99/lb.

I caught one of our local grocers red-handed last week.  I asked him what in the world was going on with a certain locally produced sausage, as it was suddenly selling for $4.99 per pound.  He seemed shocked, and exclaimed that it seemed ridiculous, since Boston Butts were going for 87 cents, retail.  We had a chuckle about it as I passed up the sausage and picked up a ham for $1.29/lb.  He said he didn't know who was making the big profit, but it sure wasn't him!  Well, a few days later, I was in the local meat market, a small local store with much less buying power than that chain store, and there was the same exact sausage for $3.29/lb.  It wasn't on sale, either.  Now, maybe that store manager didn't know that his company was gouging the consumer, but that is what is happening.

Bottom line is, there is no shortage of food in this Country.  We are being ripped off by greedy middlemen at every turn.  There would be no need for farm subsidies if the farmer was getting his fair share of the profits.  We are fast approaching another feudal age where everybody is either a Baron or a Serf.  We need to get a grip on our freedom if we want to keep it!

[LeeB]

I've been thinking lately that the US Government needs to establish a Department of Truth to help the poor, ignorant consumer understand exactly where the money is going. 

Most of the US government wouldn't know the truth if it bit on the a**.  :D :D :D

[Ironwood]

Government Dept. of Truth, Kinda reminds me of a family outing to DC a few years back. Over near the Smithsonian's Renwick Gallery there is "Office of Thrift Supervision". No kidding, it is really there on the sign out front of a BIG building. We rolled and had lots of fun jokes about my wifey and her sister's thriftiness. I guess that was the response to chase down the purchase orders on things like $350 toilet seats :, yet another buracracy.

       Ironwood

[Don_Papenburg]

DanG  ,   there is a provision in the last farm bill to fine a producer that raises veggies or fruits on land without a previous history of veggies or fruit.  The farm bill was /is called Fredom to Farm .  So basicly you could farm anyway you want as long as it is the same as you always farmed.

[zopi]

our government sucks.

If I am going to watch Rome burn, I am bringing marshmallows. If nothing else I can light them on fire and throw them onto the backs of fleeing bureaucrats...

[DanG]

DanG  ,   there is a provision in the last farm bill to fine a producer that raises veggies or fruits on land without a previous history of veggies or fruit. 

Don, I'm not too well versed in the various farm programs, but I think that was just for farmers who had accepted price supports for certain crops.  They had committed to grow those particular crops in order to recieve subsidies.  I think you can plant anything you wish, if you are not in a government program, with the only penalty being in the marketplace.

[DouginUtah]

Yep. Just one small step at a time until they have total control.


And who writes these laws?

That would be Congressmen.

And who tells the Congressmen what to write?

That would be the lobbyists.

And who pays the lobbyists?

That would be....they.