C-cans

[D Hagens]

Yup I'm talking cargo containers.......

What I've done is put two 20' cargo containers side by side to make a clubhouse for a customer.

Here's the deal, I've framed the inside, walls, ceilings so that we can board it and cover all the wiring.

The customer wants it insulated, fine by me but he wants to vapor barrier it to seal it tight.

It's metal and it doesn't sweat the way it is........should I insulate it and not poly it or insulate it and poly and hope for the best?

I've been told to just insulate it and no poly but the insulation guys say to poly it?

I need some answers by you guys that know about metal siding and roofing.

And yes I have pics if you need them cause I know you guys like pics!

[Paul_H]

I would poly it like any other heated building,otherwise the moisture will condense on the cold exterior walls and make a mess of the insulation and the board.

Yes,pics would be nice  ;)

[D Hagens]

 Hi Paul_H

My concern is that the exterior is sealed tight and the interior poly will be sealed tight.....ie it will have condensation problems within.

Just waiting for the customer to answer his e-mail and send pics. I do have pics of the deer at work though.

[D Hagens]

 Here's a link, hope it works.

NOTE FROM ADMIN. PHOTOS MUST BE IN YOUR FORESTRY FORUM GALLERY. LINKS TO OFF SITE PHOTOS ARE NOT ALLOWED

[Magicman]

Where ever the dew point is between the cold outside and warm inside, moisture will form.  That's just the way it is.  

Sealing it up tight is not always best.  People are moisture factories.  We expell moisture with every breath.  You always need fresh air to circulate through the living space.  Input near the heat source and exhaust in the ceiling.

 

[Paul_H]

My concern is that the exterior is sealed tight and the interior poly will be sealed tight.....ie it will have condensation problems within.

Magicman is right,it should be vented properly to exhaust the excess moisture.A small bathroom fan would work.

Where things get ugly is when there is no vapour barrier and the moisture is able to pass through the board and insulation and contact the cold wall and the moisture becomes pools of rusty water.

[T Red]

Where is Aldergrove?

In my area a vapor barrier on the inside and out is a good thing.  By code we are required to have one on the inside.  In your case the metal walls make a good barrier for the outside.  I would still install a barrier on the inside though. 

Will it be heated and cooled?  If he plans to use a space heater similar to the one shown you may have problems.  Any type of unvented gas or oil heater will emit a huge amount of moisture in the air. 

[haywire woodlot]

What on earth isgoing to do in there? Something to do with ham radio judging by the address of the link?

[D Hagens]

Haywire woodlot Yup it's ham radios! It's the new club for the guys here.

T Red, Aldergrove is in B.C Canada, you know where it's cold and we wear parkas. The space, 2200 square feet will be heated by a gas/wood stove. It will be off and on during the week as it's a clubhouse not a living space.......unless his wife gives him a boot cause he drives a hybrid Ford. :D

[stonebroke]

Is that really going to be cheaper in the long run than just building a pole barn and finishing it?

Stonebroke

[Dana]

I am concerned about carbon monoxide poisoning from the space heaters and future wood stoves. Make sure that you have them properly vented and get a monoxide alarm installed.

[D Hagens]

 Stonebroke

Yes it was cheaper as the customer got a great deal on the c-cans and there's no real foundation, just sleepers, plus it can be moved.

Dana, the stove will be a free standing gas stove and it will be vented. At the moment it's a natural gas stove and I will convert it to a propane stove.

The whole set up will be run off a 4000 watt gen set when all is said and done. I want to talk him in to solar power down the road as I have a lot of experience with it,

Hope the deer are out there this morning Will bring a real cam to take better pics instead of the cam on the cell

[Jeff]

Rules for posting on the Forestry Forum can be found in the original registration agreement and also using the link at the bottom of the page.

Linking to photos outside of the forestry forum galleries is prohibited and will be removed.

[Brucer]

I think I once did this kind of stuff for a living  ;D.

I would poly it like any other heated building, otherwise the moisture will condense on the cold exterior walls and make a mess of the insulation and the board.

Where ever the dew point is between the cold outside and warm inside, moisture will form.

There's the essence of it. Warm air holds more water vapour than cold air. The temperature drops as the air moves through the insulation from the warm side to the cold side. So at some point you'll get condensation in the insulation.

As Paul says, put a vapour barrier on the inside to keep the warm (and moist) interior air out of the insulation.

As Magicman says, there's still an opportunity for moisture to form in the insulation, unless you let it escape to the outside. Plywood and OSB will let vapour slowly permeate to the outside. The building wrap you see on the outside of new homes is designed to keep liquid water out but let water vapour escape from the walls. Same thing for tarpaper. Steel is going to give you problems, because it will trap the vapour. You need to find a way to vent the backside of the insulation to the outdoors (without letting water in).

Water in insulation is bad. It soaks the fibers and weights it down until everything eventually collapses to the bottom of the stud space.

[ksu_chainsaw]

Venting is a must , otherwise condensation WILL form on the inside.

While we were in Iraq, we used 40' Conex's as offices and bedrooms.  With the air conditioners running, the buildings that had no cover on the inside, where we could see the walls would drip constantly.

We also had one small container that we used several cases of expanding foam, it did not have the condensation problems, but it had 6" of foam on it with 1/4" plywood over it- this was for an electronics shop which had to have the climate controlled environment.

For this type of building, I would see what it would take to at least put a skim coat of foam on there for the vapor barrier- then you could put fiberglass batts to make up the R value you need.

Charles

[D Hagens]

This is the inside of the cans. As I figured this pic posting out I thought I would show you guys the inside.