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Author Topic: 40:1 instead of 50:1?  (Read 151457 times)

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Offline Todd

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40:1 instead of 50:1?
« on: December 23, 2005, 08:08:11 AM »
I read on the topic of over-revving that some forum members were reccomending using a greater amount of oil in their pre-mix than the saw reccomends...using only 40:1 would let me keep just one can of mix around for my 2-stroke toys, but will my 394xp like getting the extra lube(50:1 reccomended), and what adjustments should I then make to the carb?  (or should I find someone who knows what the h*** they're doing to adjust it? ::) 
Todd
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Offline clyde

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2005, 10:21:08 AM »
Your saw will be much better off at 40 to 1.  I think 50 to 1 is too little oil.  You really shouldn't have to tune it much with this change.  Theoreticaly it will be a little leaner on the fuel to oxygen ratio (less gas and more oil in a given volume) but this will be very slight.

Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2005, 11:11:22 AM »

Offline scottr

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2005, 07:27:43 PM »
Todd , about a month ago a similar question on another forum revealed that Husqvarna recomends 3% oil for their saws that are over 80cc .

Offline Rockn H

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2005, 01:10:42 AM »
So, husqvarna recommends around a 33:1 mix?

Offline KarlP

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2005, 06:17:29 AM »
So, husqvarna recommends around a 33:1 mix?

I used their online form to ask them about this twice and got no response.  The third time I asked a simpler question to start with and followed up with what I really wanted to know.

Me: "What fuel to oil mix ratio to you recommend for the longest engine life of a Husqvarna 385xp used for chainsaw milling?"

Husq: "Thank you for contacting Husqvarna. The best fuel/oil mix will be the 50:1 ratio using quality 2 cycle oil that is designed for chainsaws, and use fresh fuel, 89-93 octane for best performance."

Me: "In that case I'm curious if you could tell me why one version of the US 385xp manuals (http://weborder.husqvarna.com/order_static/doc/HOUS/HOUS2004/HOUS2004_1140238-95.pdf) as well as all of the manuals for New Zealand, Sweden, and many other countries recommend 33:1 for Husqvarna saws over 80cc? I assumed it was for longer engine life."

Husq: "The different ratio can be attributed to different fuel quality in the countries that you listed. The owners manuals for all Husqvarna products in the US call for a 50:1 fuel ratio."

That said, I myself use a 1 gallon Husqvarna mix in .85 gallons of Super Unleaded from the local Exxon station that has one hose for each grade in a new saw just incase the rumors of conventional oil leading to a better breakin are true.  After that I switch to 3oz of Mobil 1 racing per US gallon.  That both makes measurement easy and gives me around 42 2/3:1.


Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2005, 10:30:10 AM »
The other countries do not have the EPA. No manufacturer is legally allowed to recommend anything more than 50-1 mix in the USA. The other countries are not restricted by such legalities and they can actually recommend the mix that the saw was designed to use.

Offline scottr

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2005, 12:27:40 PM »
 I just looked up the fuel to oil ratio for the new model PP4318AV that Stew was asking about . The ratio is 40:1 .

Online Ianab

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2005, 01:56:07 PM »
Interesting...

I picked up a new Dolmar 9600 last week.
The (International) user manual tell me to mix the oil 50:1. But the dealer AND the free ( bottled in NZ ) Dolmar oil bottle both say to mix 25:1 ???

I'll just carry on mixing 33:1 like I do with all my 2 strokes, none have died yet  :-\

Quote
Husq: "The different ratio can be attributed to different fuel quality in the countries that you listed.
I have been told that by various dealers in NZ too, and I can believe it as well  ::)

Ian
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Offline StihlDoc

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2005, 06:28:50 AM »
The other countries do not have the EPA. No manufacturer is legally allowed to recommend anything more than 50-1 mix in the USA. The other countries are not restricted by such legalities and they can actually recommend the mix that the saw was designed to use.

To clear up any misconceptions, the EPA does not mandate any mix ratio on two-strokes. The manufacturers tell the EPA what ratio and oil formulation is used when they give their emissions level data to the government. The ingredients in the oil and engine design are the determining factors in what a manufacturer recommends for a mix ratio.

Offline bitternut

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2005, 08:54:51 PM »
So if I were to read between the lines the saw manufacturers stroke the test results by using a 50 to 1 mix but really design the saws to run best on a richer mixture. Since there is no EPA outside the US they are free to make recommendations of a richer mix.

Offline Joseph

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2005, 09:35:57 PM »
So if I were to read between the lines the saw manufacturers stroke the test results by using a 50 to 1 mix but really design the saws to run best on a richer mixture. Since there is no EPA outside the US they are free to make recommendations of a richer mix.

Look like that, does it not?

I did look up the Operator's Manual{International Version] for my saw, a 395XP.

I will be running my saw on 33:1{3%] mix, per there International Operators Manual.

You can see a copy here;
http://weborder.husqvarna.com/order_static/doc/HOEN/HOEN2004/HOEN2004_1140256-26.pdf

And Yes they have the following on page 25, bottom right;

Mixing ratio
For engines up to 80 cc: 01:50 (2%)
For engines over 80 cc: 01:33 (3%)



Regards

Joseph
"Equipment Should Never be an Excuse for Poor Performance. If You are Going to be a Professional, You Get the Correct Equipment, then the Only Excuse is Your Ability to Perform." ★ ℠

Offline Todd

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2005, 06:57:37 AM »
I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses...I think I'll start mixing a little more oil into that premix and quit worrying about getting that "exact" mixture now that I hear others are running 40-33:1 in their saws.  Watching me trying to get EXACTLY a 50:1 mix would probably have been an amusing experience for most people here. (and no, before anyone asks, I don't have any pictures of that! ;))
Todd
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Offline StihlDoc

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2005, 10:33:01 PM »
So if I were to read between the lines the saw manufacturers stroke the test results by using a 50 to 1 mix but really design the saws to run best on a richer mixture. Since there is no EPA outside the US they are free to make recommendations of a richer mix.

The oil mix ratio has only a minimal effect on what the EPA regulates. Scavenging loss (unburned gasoline) is the big contributor. The 50:1 ratios are recommended because the modern two-stroke oils have better additives to prevent ring sticking and piston seizure than the oils used 20 years ago. The newer oils used at richer than ecommended ratios can lead to deposit build-up and eventual engine damage over the long term due to deposit build-up.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2005, 10:51:30 PM »
I am with StihlDoc on this one. Running a richer mixture also leads to plugging the ports and spark arrestor. I have not seen any oil related problems at 50:1, I have run my Husky 345 at 100:1 on Opti-2 for the last 5 years. However, it is your saw and your nickel, if you feel better running heavier by all means go for it.
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Offline JD_Kid

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2005, 01:14:36 PM »
Hi ya's
Ianab intresting what ya say about  ya new saw  my  109 is ment to be 40-1 my 120Si  is 25-1 and my PS 9010 40-1  or higher if useing "brand oil's"   i have run all these on 100 -1 race oils tho   i think a lot depends on oil spec than mix rates
catch ya
JD
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Offline bwalker

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2005, 06:16:02 PM »
Quote
The newer oils used at richer than ecommended ratios can lead to deposit build-up and eventual engine damage over the long term due to deposit build-up.
With all due respect, i know this is the Stihl company line. Its complete BS. OIl technology has changed very little untill the last 5 or so years. Well after 50:1  ratios first begain to be reccomended. the OEMS went to the numercily higher ratios in order to reduce visible smoke with the mediocre quality oils they sell.
 I run all my saws at 32:1 and I would challenge you to see anymore smoke than stihl orange bottle oil at 50:1 In fact I will bet you my saw will smoke less. Further more deposit levels will be less.

Offline Tillaway

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2005, 07:17:48 PM »
If you ever have a chance to look through Stihl's engine failure diagnostic manual you will find that running a mixture too rich say 33:1 leads to excessive carbon build up and piston scoring on the exhaust port side and ring sticking as the carbon build up falls back in on the piston.  It is the equivelent of running too lean as far as engine failure.  Probably more common since most people are more comfortable running a rich mix since they feel better.  Most folks don't notice the reduced service life since they put very few hours on a saw so service life still appears to be good to them.

Outboard manufacturers have had to deal with this problem for years since the fuel / oil mixture is rated to protect at wide open throttle.  They rarely run WTO all day so trolling was extremely hard on them and the motors suffered greatly as well as pumped allot of unburned oil into the water.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2005, 07:38:52 PM »
Tillaway is absolutely correct. With all due respect to bwalker and others, oil technology has changed dramatically and so have engines. The old engines had wider tolerances so required more of the oil that was available at the time. They also ran at lower speeds and did not need the new super oils.
 A friend who is from the old school insisted on running his Johnson outboard on SAE30 at 16:1 just as he did in the fifties. I convinced him to use outboard motor oil because of hard starting and fouled plugs. He still refuses to go any leaner than 20:1 yet there is a white goop which is water and unburned oil in the exhaust port. The new concentrated oils simply will not burn clean when mixed too heavily.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline StihlDoc

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2005, 09:10:03 PM »
With all due respect, i know this is the Stihl company line. Its complete BS. OIl technology has changed very little untill the last 5 or so years. Well after 50:1  ratios first begain to be reccomended. the OEMS went to the numercily higher ratios in order to reduce visible smoke with the mediocre quality oils they sell...

With all due respect, I have been around two-stroke engine and lubricant development for over 30 years and have not experienced the same observations you supplied. I would be interested to know where your information comes from or is it personal opinion?

Offline clyde

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2005, 02:28:48 AM »
I don't believe , with a high quality synthetic oil, at 32 to1 , you would have more build up than with the stock oil recommendation.  I think the motor would  last longer also.  I base this from racing 2 stroke motorcycles for 30 yrs.  High quality synthetic oil is superior.  Noticibly.  Especialy two-cycle oil, in high reving situations.  I think the oil is more important than the ratio(not an amsoil 100to1 fan).  A high quality synthetic oil will lubricate well at 50to1, but it will have better power and lubrication at 32to1 with no negetive effects.  All of this is just an opinion not fact.

Offline bwalker

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2005, 08:22:29 PM »
Doc, would you care to tell us the differance bewteen Stihl orange bottle oil and a oil from say 1984? Are both not API TC oils both formulated with a mixture of light petroleum base oils, a heavy petrol brite stock and additive package made with a calcium based detergent?
 Advancments have been made in lubrication, but the saw makers havent really picked up on this until the last few years. They have now began to use PIB blended oils to increase cleanliness over the old brite stock based oils.
 
Quote
If you ever have a chance to look through Stihl's engine failure diagnostic manual you will find that running a mixture too rich say 33:1 leads to excessive carbon build up and piston scoring on the exhaust port side and ring sticking as the carbon build up falls back in on the piston
Again, there is no build up with the proper oil. All of the jap motor cycle companys spec 32:1 ratios, even with dino oil.

Offline StihlDoc

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2006, 12:28:05 AM »
In the USA, the percentage of bright stock was changed and the treat rate and chemistry of the additive also changed in 1989 when the mix ratio recommendation and bottle sizes changed from a 40:1 to 50:1 mix ratio.

Offline bitternut

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2006, 12:02:11 PM »
StihlDoc I am getting confused as heck following this thread. I use Stihl oil that comes in the small bottles ( 2.6 oz I think ). I mix it to one gallon of fuel. Could you tell me if I am right in doing so. I run this mix in my Stihl 026 Pro winter and summer.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2006, 12:19:47 PM »
You people south of 49 need to go metric. One 100ml bottle to 5 litres of gas = 50:1. Simple ;D The imperial system drove me nuts. I needed a wall chart with all the different mixes in the old days. 2.6 oz to the U.S. gallon sounds about right.
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Offline beenthere

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2006, 01:50:24 PM »
StihlDoc I am getting confused as heck following this thread. I use Stihl oil that comes in the small bottles ( 2.6 oz I think ). I mix it to one gallon of fuel. Could you tell me if I am right in doing so. I run this mix in my Stihl 026 Pro winter and summer.

UR doing it right. Says right on the bottle that it is to be mixed with 1 US gallon of fuel (I use premium as it doesn't have ethanol in it).
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Offline Rocky_J

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2006, 02:04:53 PM »

when all else fails, read the directions on the label...  ::)

Offline Todd

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2006, 04:26:56 PM »
Its all so clear now!!??? ;D ;D ;D
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Offline bwalker

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2006, 06:44:36 PM »
Quote
In the USA, the percentage of bright stock was changed and the treat rate and chemistry of the additive also changed in 1989 when the mix ratio recommendation and bottle
Which is a the same approach that was used in the early 80's.

Offline StihlDoc

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2006, 07:25:49 PM »
Run what your instruction manual states or whatever ratio and brand of oil you are comfortable with and have confidence in. If you elect  to use something different than a manufacturer recommends, don't complain that the product is not up to standards if you happen to experience lubricant or combustion deposit related failures in the future.

The amount of oil to gasoline in the USA to achieve a 50:1 ratio is:

1 gallon gasoline to 2.6 ounces oil
2.5 gallons gasoline to 6.4 ounces oil
5 gallons gasoline to 12.8 ounces oil

Items to note for small air cooled two-stroke engine lubrication:
a) Small changes in mix ratio won't be noticeable to you or the engine (e.g. 40:1 vs. 50:1).
b) Higher mix ratios (e.g. 50:1, 80:1, 100:1) allow the engine to produce more power as long as the oil has the necessary lubrication properties to overcome friction.
c) Don't run outboard motor oil in high performance chain saws and don't use high performance chain saw oil in outboard motors.
d) Synthetic oils are usually better performers than petroleum oils.
e) Manufacturers do extensive testing to come up with an oil formulation and mix ratio that has a reasonable price and works well in their products under most circumstances.

Offline bitternut

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2006, 09:03:28 PM »
Thanks, I will continue as I have been at 50:1 with Stihl oil.

Offline clyde

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2006, 01:01:14 PM »
stihl-doc
why do you get more power when running less oil in the mix?
I don't believe this to be true.
testing has shown us that a two-stroke motor makes more power with more oil in the mix all the way until the spark plug will foul.

Offline StihlDoc

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2006, 09:07:19 PM »
The BTU energy in gasoline creates power. Oil is not as volatile and does not produce the heat energy that gasoline does. But oil does reduce friction and helps piston rings to seal. It is possible that you could feel an increase in engine power by adding more oil if the engine cooling is not efficient, the piston/cylinder tolerance is tight, or piston rings are worn.

Offline bwalker

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2006, 06:22:58 PM »
Mac authored a SAE paper int he 70's that conlcuded that a two stroke made more power as the mix ratio was decreased up untill plug fouling became a issue.

"The BTU energy in gasoline creates power. Oil is not as volatile and does not produce the heat energy that gasoline does. "
Wouldnt oil have a higher BTU than gasoline and it sureley produces heat energy when it burns.

Offline clyde

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2006, 08:47:22 PM »
Mercury outboard motors came to the same conclusion also.
It really doesn't matter what the btu's of the oil is.  It is really not burning in the cumbustion(not much anyway).  This is why the engine runs leaner with a higher oil ratio (less gas mixed w/same amount of oxygen).  The oil volume isn't even figured in because it is not burning.  Most of the oil is burned off in the muffler.  The increased power (dyno-proven time and again) is more due to better ring sealing (higher compression) than less friction (not a bad thing).


****32-1****

Offline kkesler

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2006, 08:42:46 PM »
What would the consensus be on the appropriate mix for my Homelite C-5 with modern oils?

Here is what it says on the saw:
Off site photo link deleted by Admin, refer to rules posted at bottom of every page.

(16:1)

Offline Gypsy7

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2017, 04:59:32 AM »
with the ratio of mix of 50:1 is what oil to fuel in ml and litres please and also 40:1 ratio mls of oil to fuel. I worked it out at 25ml oil to 1 litre of fuel and 20ml oil to 1 litre of fuel is that correct :

Offline dougand3

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2017, 09:08:56 AM »
20 ml to 1 liter for 50:1
24 ml to 1 liter for 40:1
is close enough.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

Offline joe_indi

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2017, 09:27:46 AM »
with the ratio of mix of 50:1 is what oil to fuel in ml and litres please and also 40:1 ratio mls of oil to fuel. I worked it out at 25ml oil to 1 litre of fuel and 20ml oil to 1 litre of fuel is that correct :
50:1 is 20ml per liter and 40:1 is 25ml per liter. Simple method is to divide 1000 by the first number in the ratio.
Here in India Stihl and Makita oils are available.
Also Indian brands from the fuel companies. The Stihl oil is used at 50:1(20ml/liter) and the Makita at 30-25:1 (30 to 40 ml/liter) and the Indian brands at 25:1.
All that on standard setting.
When leaning out to ensure the saws dont starve for lubrication at our tropical temperature it is the normal practice to increase the oil by a few ml. With a lean burn and extra oil we dont get black carbon buildup. More of a dark to light gray exhaust, cylinder top and piston top.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2017, 12:59:39 PM »
What would the consensus be on the appropriate mix for my Homelite C-5 with modern oils?

Here is what it says on the saw:
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(16:1)
I run 50:1 in my old saws, I have yet to fry one although they don't see much use. Just make sure you properly adjust the carburetor. I had a C-5, what a beast. It would take a bigger man than me to pack it around all day.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Thomas Lilli

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2020, 04:31:56 AM »
With regard to mix oil, Id suggest you would have to know more about mix oils. Flash points are all over the place, and film characteristics vary greatly per degree of temperature from one oil to the next. Synthetic vs mineral etc. 

I also understand that, because of the environmental considerations, manufacturers make design changes that make them run, inherently hotter (intake air stratification vs exhaust stratification) and therefore leave a larger range of fit between piston and cylinder compared to saws of 10-15 years ago. This all comes into play when you contemplate mix oils in my opinion. 

The man that builds my saws recommends a 50:1 full ester synthetic mix oil and hes done extensive tests with those oils as a pro northwest faller and builder. My saws are designed to run on highest octane possible, Motul 800 2T factory line road (or equivalent) mix oil at 50:1. Theyre obviously high compression and the 461, revving a bit higher than factory. He builds them for falling and, the amount I cut per year, Im sure they outlive me.  

Incidentally, I pulled the plug on my 461 just to borescope the cylinder and everything inside was pristine, not a mark on the cylinder. The piston top only had some erosion marks from gas flow at the intake and exhaust ports. 

Good discussion. 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2020, 12:00:54 PM »
The resurgence of a 15 year old thread concerning the great oil debate . 8) --gotta luv it ---

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2020, 12:49:26 PM »
Some horses won't die no matter how hard you beat them. ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, but almost.

Offline Reddawg

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2020, 05:53:08 PM »
I was a Stihl Ultra 2-cycle oil user while my 461R was under warranty. Found 50:1 to leave some deposits on the piston and exhaust. Nothing major but its new so I wouldnt expect much either.
Switched to a recommendation from a pro saw builder and faller of big wood, Motul 8002T at 42:1, since 3oz per gallon mix in the field is easy to do. After a bit of fine tuning from the factory setting, I see a better burn of the fuel mixture with the piston cleaning up and the plug dry and slightly brown on the electrode. 
On the big saws and the small ones I run the same mixture with 89 gas that has ethanol in it. No place close to get pure gas. I dont have any issues at all, knock on wood, and would recommend a bit more lubrication than less. These saws work really hot in the hardwoods so be kind to the saw and it will reward you for a very long time.

Offline Canuck123

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2021, 01:18:19 PM »
Definately Gotta love , the oil ratio threads . I agree with Stihl Doc & Saw Guy that 50:1 with modern synthetic oil will protect today's & yesterdays saws . It's simple ,  improved oil technology . Mr Walker is correct within proper tuning and xtra oil can improve horsepower in racing scenerio's however in the hobby woodcutter life may cause additional carbonizing of the exhaust ports and piston rings . This is due to lower operating temps of consumer saws vs professional saws with high compression and rpm operating ranges. I run Sabre & Motul T at 50:1 on most applications , in certain saws I run 44:1 while milling or bucking . Anyhow good discussions , long live the oil threads !
Nothing like the Smell of Motul in the Morning !

Offline barbender

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2021, 03:31:16 PM »
You love oil threads so much you had to drag up one from a year and a half ago?😁
Too many irons in the fire

Offline welderskelter

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2021, 05:27:56 PM »
I was out of gas in the mill yesterday and all I had was chainsaw gas. So my 17 hp. kohler runs good at 30 to 1. I was surprised it didnt even smoke. Which reminds me I should lean it out on oil now that I got some more gas. I can remember when I was about 16 dad had a remington and I had an old mono. We bought our oil in town as bulk oil. Dad bought a 2 gal. can of hydraulic oil. When we needed some for the tractor we figured out we had used it all up for the chainsaws. Dont know that it hurt them any.

Offline Canuck123

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2021, 08:52:19 PM »
You love oil threads so much you had to drag up one from a year and a half ago?😁
Hell , would you prefer from 10 yrs ago ? Actually  , enjoy the various opinions !  8)
Nothing like the Smell of Motul in the Morning !

Offline Canuck123

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2021, 08:58:18 PM »
I was out of gas in the mill yesterday and all I had was chainsaw gas. So my 17 hp. kohler runs good at 30 to 1. I was surprised it didnt even smoke. Which reminds me I should lean it out on oil now that I got some more gas. I can remember when I was about 16 dad had a remington and I had an old mono. We bought our oil in town as bulk oil. Dad bought a 2 gal. can of hydraulic oil. When we needed some for the tractor we figured out we had used it all up for the chainsaws. Dont know that it hurt them any.
I would like to see how one of the new computerized saws would react to straight 30 @ 30:1  :D
Nothing like the Smell of Motul in the Morning !

Offline barbender

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2021, 11:35:03 PM »
I think they would get confused😂
Too many irons in the fire

Offline thedoublejranch

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2021, 08:05:33 PM »
I either buy the pre mixed gas in gallon cans or when I do mix, its 3oz to a gallon leaving me with 44:1, 3 oz is a nice number vs 2.6oz etc.
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2021, 08:26:17 PM »
That works for you and it's fine. Simple and easy to remember. Being under the metric system I mix 100ml of oil to five litres of gas for 50:1, don't ask me to figure it out under the British standard system which I have forgotten.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2021, 09:02:33 PM »
People just need to remember it in EASY terms; 50 PARTS gas to 1 PART oil. Easy Peasy  ;)
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Online Ianab

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2021, 12:09:17 AM »
People just need to remember it in EASY terms; 50 PARTS gas to 1 PART oil. Easy Peasy  ;)
While that's 100% correct, 5,000 ml (5 litres) of gas, with 100ml of oil is much simpler maths than figuring ounces of oil to gallons of gas. 
Under metrics the PARTS are basically in the same units. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline barbender

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2021, 01:54:26 AM »
I like metric, I hate fractions.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline sawguy21

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2021, 10:50:47 AM »
It is easy to work with once we learned to THINK in metric and stopped trying to convert. My mother refused to use it, maybe because her parents were American. ;)
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline HemlockKing

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2021, 10:57:26 AM »
It is easy to work with once we learned to THINK in metric and stopped trying to convert. My mother refused to use it, maybe because her parents were American. ;)
Us Canadians are mixed. Typically use imperial for height and weight of person. Metric measuring liquids, metric speed limit, imperial construction materials. Im pretty sure the us fed gov officially switched to metric with Canada though back then
A1

Offline barbender

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2021, 12:20:56 PM »
Mixed is the worst, in my opinion. Give me one or the other. At work, I operate a Finnish built forestry machine and it's all metric, all day long. I keep metric tools on it, there's never a question of what tools you need. Unfortunately, a lot of American stuff you can find both metric and standard on the same vehicle. It makes for a lot of trips back to the toolbox.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline HemlockKing

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2021, 12:28:45 PM »
Mixed is the worst, in my opinion. Give me one or the other. At work, I operate a Finnish built forestry machine and it's all metric, all day long. I keep metric tools on it, there's never a question of what tools you need. Unfortunately, a lot of American stuff you can find both metric and standard on the same vehicle. It makes for a lot of trips back to the toolbox.
Yeah try being a machinist lol like you said it’s a pain. 

Offline sawguy21

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2021, 12:57:54 PM »
I ran into it on a mid 80's GM pickup, the bolts holding the crossmember to the frame were British standard but the transmission was metric. How stupid is that?
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline thedoublejranch

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2021, 01:37:32 PM »
...a lot of American stuff you can find both metric and standard on the same vehicle. It makes for a lot of trips back to the toolbox.
Yes, that was during the transition period in the very late 70's (body panels went metric first, power train was still std) to around latter 80's, pretty much all standard/fraction stuff has been replaced with metric now for the last 25 years.
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Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2021, 08:21:40 PM »
I ordered a 1984 3/4 ton GMC from the factory and it was made in Canada. Most of the metric fittings were marked with a little paint. At the time, I thought that was rather kind.....but yes, it had US and metric fasteners.

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Offline fluidpowerpro

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2021, 09:57:53 PM »
Marking fittings with a dab of paint is an assembly procedure used by many OEM's to indicate that they have been torqued to spec.  Its not because they were metric...
Change is hard....
Especially when a jar full of it falls off the top shelf and hits your head!

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2021, 10:27:10 PM »
Marking fittings with a dab of paint is an assembly procedure used by many OEM's to indicate that they have been torqued to spec.  Its not because they were metric...
Its also often a anti tamper marking. Ive seen enough of that through the years to realize it (and to know how to circumnavigate the marks)  ;D
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Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2021, 12:06:31 AM »
Marking fittings with a dab of paint is an assembly procedure used by many OEM's to indicate that they have been torqued to spec.  Its not because they were metric...
Well then, it was a pretty fantastic coincidence that every single marked/painted fastener was metric.....every one of them.

I guess next you could argue that every critical fastener with a torque spec was painted and metric on purpose. But in truth the whole truck was a mix-match of metric and US fasteners.

Kevin  

Offline fossil

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2021, 01:22:36 PM »
Those paint marks are called witness marks in the auto industry.  They are there for various reasons.

Most of them are put on by the assembler at point of assembly as a way to try and make sure they are installed properly or even just installed.

They don't work particularly well as missed bolts are usually around a 1 in 5000+ occurrence. I have seen empty holes with the paint mark on the part.

It's hard to stay focused doing mundane, repetitive work.

In the metric bolt and inch bolts case, they may have come from the manufacturer with paint marks for easy ID.

My Toyota RAV 4 has many witness marks. The Japanese love them, especially on NA built models.

Offline North to Alaska

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2021, 01:37:33 AM »
Just observing and reporting. Not sure what is the cause. 

I just mixed up a new can of gasoline with Amsoul Sabre with 6 oz per two gallons (43:1). Previously had Stihl ultra at 50:1.
My MS 261 CM just came to life. Much more power.
Wife purchased a MS 180 C yesterday and had some running issues. Refilled it today with the new mix and her problems have gone away. More power and no more stalling.
Did get the stihl ultra for the extra warranty on the new saw so I will try it at a later date at the richer mix and see if there is a difference in oils.
My intuition say oil is the the reason but rather the mix ratio.



Offline lxskllr

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2021, 07:56:06 AM »
I haven't noticed any performance differences with various oils or ratios in the 40:1-50:1 range. I did finally pinpoint my burning eyes to PoulanPro full synthetic oil. I noticed it more with my brushcutter, and it was almost unbearable. No problems with Stihl Ultra(my usual) or VP. Not sure what they did so drastically different, but it was definitely different.

Offline donbj

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2021, 02:01:06 PM »
Just observing and reporting. Not sure what is the cause.

I just mixed up a new can of gasoline with Amsoul Sabre with 6 oz per two gallons (43:1). Previously had Stihl ultra at 50:1.
My MS 261 CM just came to life. Much more power.
Wife purchased a MS 180 C yesterday and had some running issues. Refilled it today with the new mix and her problems have gone away. More power and no more stalling.
Did get the stihl ultra for the extra warranty on the new saw so I will try it at a later date at the richer mix and see if there is a difference in oils.
My intuition say oil is the the reason but rather the mix ratio.
I wonder if it was the new fresh gas that made the difference and not the oil. Maybe your other gas was stale.
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Offline North to Alaska

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2021, 02:59:10 PM »
Just observing and reporting. Not sure what is the cause.

I just mixed up a new can of gasoline with Amsoul Sabre with 6 oz per two gallons (43:1). Previously had Stihl ultra at 50:1.
My MS 261 CM just came to life. Much more power.
Wife purchased a MS 180 C yesterday and had some running issues. Refilled it today with the new mix and her problems have gone away. More power and no more stalling.
Did get the stihl ultra for the extra warranty on the new saw so I will try it at a later date at the richer mix and see if there is a difference in oils.
My intuition say oil is the the reason but rather the mix ratio.
I wonder if it was the new fresh gas that made the difference and not the oil. Maybe your other gas was stale.
I thought of that but my saw has been running a bit tired for more than one gas can. Had it in a couple weeks ago because it was pulsing at high rev. Thought it was fuel filter or computer issue. While we were working on it(tech lets us hang out with them) the spark plug wire fell apart. Lol. That fixed the problem.
The other thing is that my wifes saw which is brand new also seems to have more power after the fill up. Just purchased and it still had the gas from the dealer in it.
My real worry is if the pistons are not sealing enough and the extra oil is giving it a better compression.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2021, 08:16:46 AM »
As far as paint marks on different fittings ,fasteners etc .They are exactly what has been mentioned, witness marks .29 years in an engine plant you know ;) .BTW nearly all fasteners and fittings with few exceptions are metric .You go wrench turning on one you need a lot of tools.
Oil ratios are a never ending subject of debate .Everybody is an expert on this subject  it seems .I'm just an old school 32 to 1 guy who will never change .

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: 40:1 instead of 50:1?
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2021, 08:29:47 AM »
I might add just so the experts know every single fastener , fitting on a modern engine assembly plant is torque checked electronically .This data goes  to an electronic tag on the engine .If just one is off that engine goes off line and is rechecked and reworked if necessary before it goes back on the main line for additional assembly .Honda and Ford do exactly the same method as there are really no secrets in the auto industry .These are not model A Ford  engines these days .


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