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Official MS261CM vs 550XP test

Started by HolmenTree, June 06, 2017, 10:46:34 PM

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HolmenTree

I did 6 smaller jobs for 6 customers with a high of 60F (17C) today.
I ran the MS261C in the first 2 jobs.
When starting my 2nd job exactly one hour since shutting off the 261, I did not set the choke amd made one pull on the starter, the 261 fired right up and started cutting right away with no bog. Ran just like I shut it off a minute ago.
How many saws can be started with one pull and with no choke after sitting for an hour?

Later on I put the 550XP to work in 4 medium poplars. Once warmed up it cut through the wood like butter with the .325 H25 chain.
But it still took a while to get rid of the ignition miss.  Even when the miss went away after working a bit, when I let it sit for s few minutes it would cool off enough to start to miss again when I started it up.

I'm going to have to take the 550 back to the dealer and get them to check it over again before the warranty runs out.
Both Stihl and Husqvarna offer only 90 day warranty for professional used saws.


  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

PNWRusty

Quote from: HolmenTree on July 20, 2017, 08:41:34 PM
How many saws can be started with one pull and with no choke after sitting for an hour?

Well my chainsaw starts with one pull, no choke after sitting an hour. No problem!

Oh, wait, it's a 261 C-M too!

I thought my 026 was an unusually easy starting chainsaw but I have to admit, the 261 C-M is even easier.

barbender

If my saw won't run at 95F, I figure it's time to head home😊
Too many irons in the fire

John Mc

Quote from: barbender on July 21, 2017, 12:42:04 AM
If my saw won't run at 95F, I figure it's time to head home😊

My saws generally won't run when it's 95... It's due to a failure of one of the more expensive and complex components. There are times when my wife might be tempted to replace that component, but I'm still here, so I guess it hasn't gotten that bad.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

teakwood

I have 5 Stihls and they all work without any issues at hot temps, 80-95.  The coldest we ever get is 70 and thats in the morning, a cold day is 77. normal is 80-90, so i couldn't use any chainsaw that won't work in hot temps, although we can't buy the stihl tronic saws yet. all older models for sale here
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

nativewolf

Quote from: teakwood on July 21, 2017, 08:35:27 AM
I have 5 Stihls and they all work without any issues at hot temps, 80-95.  The coldest we ever get is 70 and thats in the morning, a cold day is 77. normal is 80-90, so i couldn't use any chainsaw that won't work in hot temps, although we can't buy the stihl tronic saws yet. all older models for sale here

I think the component that was not working...was an expensive biological component of significant complexity ie...owner.
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: HolmenTree on July 20, 2017, 08:41:34 PM
I did 6 smaller jobs for 6 customers with a high of 60F (17C) today.
I ran the MS261C in the first 2 jobs.
When starting my 2nd job exactly one hour since shutting off the 261, I did not set the choke amd made one pull on the starter, the 261 fired right up and started cutting right away with no bog. Ran just like I shut it off a minute ago.
How many saws can be started with one pull and with no choke after sitting for an hour?

Later on I put the 550XP to work in 4 medium poplars. Once warmed up it cut through the wood like butter with the .325 H25 chain.
But it still took a while to get rid of the ignition miss.  Even when the miss went away after working a bit, when I let it sit for s few minutes it would cool off enough to start to miss again when I started it up.

I'm going to have to take the 550 back to the dealer and get them to check it over again before the warranty runs out.
Both Stihl and Husqvarna offer only 90 day warranty for professional used saws.


  

 

Really enjoying your ongoing analysis.  I'm looking at a slightly used 261 right now.  I'll be using it for light felling, limbing, firewood duties.  What would you suggest in terms of chains?  I haven't had a new saw in ..well it must be 14 years.  Two old ones still working but a newer more powerful lighter saw would be nice. 
Liking Walnut

HolmenTree

Thanks nativewolf I'm glad you're enjoying it.
This MS261C I'm using is the latest upgraded model first introduced last year in 2016.
I'm not sure if it's a 2017 or 2016 as I don't know the serial # code Stihl uses today.
Here's it's  serial # below  if anyone can help me out.

Best chain I recommend is the Stihl 23RS or RM.
Last pic is a 23RS I've run for a long time on my 562XP. Almost filed back to the witness marks with still lots to go.
Chain's links look well used but it's running on a high hp 60cc saw so it's at the maximum limit of wear and tear.


  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

PNWRusty

I can't help decipher the SN but mine is a LOT higher at # 511848661. Something tells me they haven't made 330 million of these between now and then. It was shipped to my dealer last month.

nativewolf

Quote from: PNWRusty on July 24, 2017, 01:24:38 AM
I can't help decipher the SN but mine is a LOT higher at # 511848661. Something tells me they haven't made 330 million of these between now and then. It was shipped to my dealer last month.

Should be something like an auto VIN where the first 2 numbers tells us what county or factory, then a date and then a run number, something like that.  Not sure with Stihl but it should be a code basically.
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: HolmenTree on July 23, 2017, 10:48:11 PM
Thanks nativewolf I'm glad you're enjoying it.
This MS261C I'm using is the latest upgraded model first introduced last year in 2016.
I'm not sure if it's a 2017 or 2016 as I don't know the serial # code Stihl uses today.
Here's it's  serial # below  if anyone can help me out.

Best chain I recommend is the Stihl 23RS or RM.
Last pic is a 23RS I've run for a long time on my 562XP. Almost filed back to the witness marks with still lots to go.
Chain's links look well used but it's running on a high hp 60cc saw so it's at the maximum limit of wear and tear.


  

 

and I see that chain is .325, not what the loggers love but you're a fan, right?
Liking Walnut

HolmenTree

Quote from: nativewolf on July 24, 2017, 06:54:23 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on July 23, 2017, 10:48:11 PM
Thanks nativewolf I'm glad you're enjoying it.
This MS261C I'm using is the latest upgraded model first introduced last year in 2016.
I'm not sure if it's a 2017 or 2016 as I don't know the serial # code Stihl uses today.
Here's it's  serial # below  if anyone can help me out.

Best chain I recommend is the Stihl 23RS or RM.
Last pic is a 23RS I've run for a long time on my 562XP. Almost filed back to the witness marks with still lots to go.
Chain's links look well used but it's running on a high hp 60cc saw so it's at the maximum limit of wear and tear.


  

 

and I see that chain is .325, not what the loggers love but you're a fan, right?
I've been an arborist for the last 20 years and for 20 before that I was a logger.
I myself would not use a saw any smaller then 70cc if I went back falling as a logger so I definitely would run standard 3/8".

Arborist work is different with alot fewer trees cut in a day . Just a fraction of saw work compared to logging.
My 562XP is my main go to saw at the moment (until the MS462C is available which is 73cc and only a lb heavier).
For safety and smoothness during felling limbing bucking and sometimes with the 562 up in the tree.....the best combo I found is a 18" Cannon Super Mini bar in .325
As the pic shows the bar has a small radius nose which greatly reduces kickback. On these small nose bars a tall  high profile standard 3/8" chain derail very easily so the lower profile .325 works the best.


 



Making a living with a saw since age 16.

John Mc

I'm no expert on Stihl serial numbers, but I've always heard the first digit is a country code (1 is Germany, not surprisingly). I'm less sure about the rest of this, but I don't believe Stihl codes the date of manufacture into it; they just assign blocks of numbers to each manufacturing plant.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HolmenTree

There was a sticker on the saw under the muffler that said the MS261C was made in Germany.

But some info I read from Stihl IPLs there is a progression of serial numbers for years of manufacture. I found that with the part changes throughout the years with the 066.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Weather forecast is calling for 90F (32C) this Friday. :laugh:
Now we're we'll see how these 2 saws stack up.
Day off today with thunder showers and lots to do in the shop.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

teakwood

every professional stihl chainsaw sold here comes from germany, the rest is from brasil.

do they have a fabric in the US? I have never seen any stihl product that says made in america
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

HolmenTree

The MS241C I saw at my dealer says Made in USA or Virginia Beach, Virginia, can't remember which one???
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

PNWRusty

My MS 261 C-M says "Manufactured by Stihl USA with foreign and domestic components". So I imagine it's in their Virginia Beach facility.

HolmenTree

Quote from: PNWRusty on July 25, 2017, 02:10:49 PM
My MS 261 C-M says "Manufactured by Stihl USA with foreign and domestic components". So I imagine it's in their Virginia Beach facility.
Well it appears our Canadian MS261C s are made in Germany. Here's a pic of what's left of the sticker.


  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

trapper

My 241c says the same as PNWRusty's 261.  Made in america.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

HolmenTree

Dropped the 550XP off this morning at the dealer so their tech can figure out its miss firing problem.

Looked at the new Stihls on display and saw the MS241C was made by Stihl Inc USA.
MS261 271 291 391 and larger are Made in Germany.

Gave the MS261C a good workout today on a residential 10 tree removal job.
Temperature of 80F under bright sun with 72% humidity. Humidex made it feel like 86F.

Had some saw chips almost cover the entire air intake grille on the rewind housing while doing some heavy bucking .
I guess it overheated a bit causing a slight hot restart issue, but with 2 pulls on the rope with the throttle wide open it ran good again.

Has any one noticed their 261's chain tensioner doesn't tighten the chain up snug without putting lots of pressure on the scrench?
I noticed mine does that as I like to snug up the chain  while I'm filing the chain but still loose enough to turn by hand easy enough.

So interesting thing happened when I forgot to release the tension on the chain the engine would turn the chain but under a hesitant bog.
So I loosed it back to where the tensioner likes it to be ....with the chain just barely touching the bottom of the bar rails. The micro processor seems to like that and while out of the wood it revs right back to WOT with no problem.

I remember the old Stihls when you got the chain tensioned just right but when you go to tighten the bar nuts the chain would tighten just a touch more again. I blamed it on a slight taper on the tensioner pin , Husqvarna or Jonsered didn't do that.

It's going to be in the 90s  temp wise by Thursday and Friday so should have the 550 back in time to prove it's worth.

Here's a pic of the 261 taking a rest after some bucking and getting dull on a rusted roll of chain link fence . Wasn't the only thing I cut into the owner of this property had a real junk yard. Place looked better with the trees on it to hide the mess.
Metal junk and bottles scattered everywhere, took about 6 good filings and touchups within 5hours. Too bad the 550 wasn't on hand to share the dulling.


  

 

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

PNWRusty

Yeah, mine takes more torque on the adjuster than I'm accustomed to (even when the bar and chain are really loose). I imagine this is an intentional change to reduce the likelihood that some yahoo will over-tighten it because it starts to get really hard to turn right at that point where you shouldn't go any tighter. If you like it really tight for sharpening, I can see the issue. On the other hand, it's risky to over tighten when the chain is hot even if you slack it off later. Bearings don't like huge pressure (even if it's static pressure) which is what happens as the chain cools down and shrinks. Similar principle as freezing water being able to split iron pipe open.

The other thing I notice about the 261 C chain tensioner is that it seems to have very noticeable detents as it's turned. I prefer a smooth adjustment. But that is a very minor and inconsequential criticism.

HolmenTree

Thanks for your input PNW, here I thought I was the only one with this tensioner thing and am going a little crazy..
I'll have to take a close look at it as I think it's a engineered feature to prevent over tensioning to keep the m tonic working efficiently plus like you say reducing main bearing damage.

In competitions when I do speed cutting cookies I leave the chain tension just enough to keep the chain from contacting the bottom of the middle of the bar . When the chain is rotating at WOT while cutting it snugs up on its own.

Saves alot of power that's transferred to the wood increasing chain speed.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

JJinAK

That is funny that you guys mention about the tensioning.  I recently purchased a brand new MS461, and I noticed the same thing.  At first I thought it was just "me" or the fact that it's a new saw.  Good to know.

Great thread btw.

JaJ
MS461
MS362

PNWRusty

Quote from: HolmenTree on July 26, 2017, 01:45:31 PM
Thanks for your input PNW, here I thought I was the only one with this tensioner thing and am going a little crazy..
I'll have to take a close look at it as I think it's a engineered feature to prevent over tensioning to keep the m tonic working efficiently plus like you say reducing main bearing damage.

Without having disassembled the tensioner mechanism, or even looked at it, here's my best guess. Stihl has redesigned the tensioner such that if the operator neglects to put enough torque on the bar nuts, the tensioner won't creep looser as the saw chain is repeated loaded and unloaded in cuts. Because the chain could possibly get loose enough to cause serious injury. Of course this seldom happened because almost everyone tightens the bar nuts sufficiently. But in case someone gets distracted and forgets, the results might not be catastrophic.

I've always torqued my bar nuts firm so I can't say it's possible the old style tensioner would creep in such a situation but it seems plausible. The new tensioner just feels more "bound up".

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