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linseed oil as end seal????

Started by charles mann, September 16, 2018, 09:18:39 PM

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Tom the Sawyer

nybhh,

I checked out the link.  They say that it is applied at a rate of 500 square feet per quart.  AnchorSeal recommends 100 square feet per gallon.  Do you get anything near 500 square feet of coverage per quart?
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

nybhh

That's a good question.  If my numbers are right.  An 18" diameter circle is 1.75 sf per side so 3.5 sf per log.  Would a full quart have covered 142 logs?  No way.  

I usually slather it in with an old chip brush and just based on the thicker consistency, I think it might  cover less based on my application methods but at 100sf per gallon, your only getting 28 of those logs per gallon with Anchorseal and that seems a little low for me maybe?  

Hmmm, I think coverage is probably about the same if your "painting" it on. Hard to say though because I didn't have that much left and I tend to make a mess with that stuff when its cold and I'm in a hurry  :o

Edit:  I just re-read their website and I think they are recommending 1 qt per 500sf of DECK.  Assuming a 10' x 50' deck of 5/4x6s. That 50' of length is going to give you about:
50' x 12"(inches per foot) x 1" (thick) x 2 sides = 8 sf per quart or 32 sf per gallon?  It goes a lot further than that on large surfaces and went further than that on my deck.
Woodmizer LT15, Kubota L3800, Stihl MS261 & 40 acres of ticks trees.

charles mann

Dredging up an older thread. I rescued a big pecan and got 3 gal of anchorseal 2 from amazon. I used a whole gallon on 1 log, the biggest log too, but still, 1 gal on 1 log with 4 cuts to seal. At what point do you stop applying the sealant? I started on 1 end, worked my way around, then when i went back, i noticed the end i started on didnt look like i applied nothing more than water to it. So i reapplied till it stopped sucking the sealant up. 

Did i use to much? 

Iv got 4 or 5 more logs i need to coat, and iv read at least 2 coats, but at what point? 1st coat, let dry in 3-4 hrs, then reapply or apply till it stops soaking in? 

Since the logs have been down 3-4 days, im gonna water the ends several times once i get them relocated off the ground and within reach of the hose, then apply the sealant to the damp ends. 

Any advise is appreciated. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

With Anchorseal, the thickness of the coating is not a big issue.  A thin continuous coating is adequate.  Two thin coatings will assure a continuous coating.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

charles mann

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on September 24, 2021, 10:13:53 PM
With Anchorseal, the thickness of the coating is not a big issue.  A thin continuous coating is adequate.  Two thin coatings will assure a continuous coating.
So i kinda over did the application. I know the log didnt have 100sf of surface area. 
Im hopping the last 2 gallons of sealant will be enough for the remaining 5 logs. 
I did get a gal of elastomeric polymer roofing coating from a box store for the other not so critical logs. 
Thanks for the insight. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

teakwood

I have never ever seen anchorseal, less used it.

we use melted candle wax, as cheap as it gets, just one coat.

the only negative point is you need a little heater (cookplate, spiral warmer, camping burner,...) then you need to handle the hot wax, but if you overcome these obstacles it's really easy and cheap. but if i read you guys having to apply 2 coats of a very expensive product then it looks alot better for the wax.

Side note: the hotter the wax the better, should smoke out of the pot when you take it off the fire. then it sucks it right into the wood fiber  
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

charles mann

Quote from: teakwood on September 25, 2021, 08:37:55 AM
I have never ever seen anchorseal, less used it.

we use melted candle wax, as cheap as it gets, just one coat.

the only negative point is you need a little heater (cookplate, spiral warmer, camping burner,...) then you need to handle the hot wax, but if you overcome these obstacles it's really easy and cheap. but if i read you guys having to apply 2 coats of a very expensive product then it looks alot better for the wax.

Side note: the hotter the wax the better, should smoke out of the pot when you take it off the fire. then it sucks it right into the wood fiber  
An oxy/acet cutting rig provides a portable source of heat, and could melt larger batches. 
I have used linseed oil and bees wax  in the past and it seems to work. Id have to do a financial analysis between wax, wax and oil, and anchor seal. Some here thinks its being cheap and pinching pennies, but that is their opinion. 
The upside to anchor seal or of similar sealants is its portability and application compared to wax or wax/oil a d needing a heat source to melt/mix then concoction together. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

WDH

This brings up a thought....producing high quality finished lumber consistently takes the right processes, procedures, and equipment. If you only ever produce one board, then nothing matters much as you can even hew it out by hand, let it air dry covered, bring it inside a heated and cooled space for three months to finish drying, and plane it down by hand to finished thickness.  You can get by with minimal equipment and expense.

Now, what if you had to do one million boards?

So, it you are producing many boards consistently, a quality end sealer like anchor seal becomes a vital, significantly important part of the process and home brew methods, while cheaper, will have you throwing dollars to save pennies in loss of time and efficiency.

It all depends on which cat you are trying to skin.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

teakwood

Quote from: charles mann on September 25, 2021, 11:24:10 AMAn oxy/acet cutting rig provides a portable source of heat, and could melt larger batches


I bought a small one pan electrical spiral heater for like 15$ new, it still works, but i do small batches at the time 
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

charles mann

Even if my slabbing mill was complete there is little chance of me ever producing millions of BF. 

The home brew iv done in the past may not be a water based sealant but its still a sealant and the wood i coated it with has lasted 3 yrs and the wax is still covering the ends and looking at the diff between the untreated is drastically different in end cracking within the same species from the same logs. 

Im not saying 1 is any better or worse than the other im not pushing one way or the other for hm brew or commercial, oil or water based sealant and one is no cheaper than the other to buy or make. 


Quote from: teakwood on September 26, 2021, 09:04:55 AM
Quote from: charles mann on September 25, 2021, 11:24:10 AMAn oxy/acet cutting rig provides a portable source of heat, and could melt larger batches


I bought a small one pan electrical spiral heater for like 15$ new, it still works, but i do small batches at the time

Not sure how small of a batch you are talking, but iv made 3 gal batches and wasnt near an elec source so dragging the torch set over was easy and i also used the stove in the house. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Stephen1

I find I have troubles drying wood that customers bring in that is sealed with paint. I think that it bocks the vacuum from drawing the moisture out of the end of the wood. the anchorseal or nothing is the best. The anchor seal will melt and now the moisture will come out. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

charles mann

Quote from: Stephen1 on September 26, 2021, 06:40:12 PM
I find I have troubles drying wood that customers bring in that is sealed with paint. I think that it bocks the vacuum from drawing the moisture out of the end of the wood. the anchorseal or nothing is the best. The anchor seal will melt and now the moisture will come out.
You trying to dry a whole log or do they paint the entire the surface of the boards? I dont see how painting just the ends, even if the paint leeches 2-3" in on each end, prevents the rest of the wood from drying. 
Plus im not looking at painting, im talking bout linseed oil (is a wood sealant in the first place) and wax, or anchorseal. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

beenthere

Linseed oil may be thought of as a wood sealer, but it is not a vapor barrier sealer like wax.. water vapor still moves through linseed oil coating.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

charles mann

Quote from: beenthere on September 26, 2021, 07:38:07 PM
Linseed oil may be thought of as a wood sealer, but it is not a vapor barrier sealer like wax.. water vapor still moves through linseed oil coating.
That is why the wax is melted in with the oil. To cover the ends to lessen the evaporation.
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Don P

Something kind of related I've observed. On large timbers and logs, a coat of linseed oil or similar does slow the surface drying down. Coating the whole thing helps especially in the early framing when sun and wind are working over green timbers.

Stephen1

Quote from: charles mann on September 26, 2021, 07:11:57 PM
Quote from: Stephen1 on September 26, 2021, 06:40:12 PM
I find I have troubles drying wood that customers bring in that is sealed with paint. I think that it bocks the vacuum from drawing the moisture out of the end of the wood. the anchorseal or nothing is the best. The anchor seal will melt and now the moisture will come out.
You trying to dry a whole log or do they paint the entire the surface of the boards? I dont see how painting just the ends, even if the paint leeches 2-3" in on each end, prevents the rest of the wood from drying.
Plus im not looking at painting, im talking bout linseed oil (is a wood sealant in the first place) and wax, or anchorseal.
It is just an observation when I am dring thick slabs. 10/4 . Not a whole log. 
Fact? I do not really know, I remember reading somewhere about a vacuum kiln will move moisture out thru the capilieries and such is why a vacuum kiln will dry faster, and with less degrade. If I trim the ends of a log, saw it, and then put it in the kiln same day, it will come out with no checking. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Appreciate that the hollow, long wood cells are only 3 to 5 mm long, with little tiny holes connecting one cell to another.  So, lengthwise liquid moisture movement in most species is fairly limited.  In fact, with white oak, we can store whiskey in a barrel for over a year and have little loss, unless there is a crack between the staves.

What happens in vacuum drying is that the water boils at lower and lower temperatures as the vacuum increases.  When water boils, we have vapor that can flow along the cells and also, due to pressure flow through the little holes between cells and work it way to the surface.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Stephen1

Thanks Gene, It seems I was close but did not really know the why. Now I do.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

charles mann

@GeneWengert-WoodDoc @Stephen1 

How deep from the end cuts on average do end sealers, be it paint, oil or latex, anchorseal or other wax emulsion based sealants extend into the lumber and into the cellulose structure? 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Stephen1

Quote from: charles mann on September 30, 2021, 01:44:04 PM
@GeneWengert-WoodDoc @Stephen1

How deep from the end cuts on average do end sealers, be it paint, oil or latex, anchorseal or other wax emulsion based sealants extend into the lumber and into the cellulose structure?



Good question. When I have cut the painted ends off, I only take an 1" and do not see the paint on the cut.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Don P

2 cells deep on a good day. I think Gene's post was meant to say 3-5mm. The tiny little holes between cells, "pit pairs" between cells will let solutions through to some degree but won't pass stuff the size of suspended particles like paint. The vast majority of those pits and the cells themselves are already dead and blocked before the tree is felled so are low permeability. I've rarely had trouble sanding through even "deep penetrating" finishes in short order.

As far as I can tell though, spilled purple plumbing pipe primer will go to the bone in seconds  ???

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