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Driver's license for chainsaw

Started by Nils Jonsson, February 01, 2021, 08:13:03 AM

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Nils Jonsson

A few days ago, an acquaintance of mine got killed by a falling tree here in Sweden. It make you start thinking about if you actually know what you are doing - if I know what I'm doing? I haven't managed to find out exactly what happened in that accident, but I do know he was a machine operator, not a chainsaw operator. Still, he was working with a chainsaw. I also do know that I work in the forest, with a chainsaw, from time to time. Here in Sweden, if you want to work in certified forests, you have to have a so called driver's license for chainsaw, an education, a three day course with theoretic and practical tests to be approved. (You can read about such a course here )
As I have been traveling a lot (before the covid-19 pandemic) I started to wonder: What about other countries? Can anybody hit the forest with the Stihl or Husky just like that? Or is there some kind of license required? 
I have been to both the US and Canada, and noticed that you can't even visit a logging site - as a visitor!! - without wearing a hardhat, even if you are a hundred meters away from the action. So for sure you can't operate a chainsaw there without a license or some kind of education? 

DeerMeadowFarm

My condolences as well....

I'm not sure about not being able to visit logging operations...I have watched loggers working in Maine and Massachusetts many times. As far as I know, there is no license required to run a chainsaw for homeowners and I don't think it's even required for professionals. I know that some insurance companies offer discounts in an effort to get people trained.

I have gone through level 1-4 in Game of Logging Training just for my own safety and knowledge. A friend of mine's neighbor cut a bunch of trees down in his yard and didn't want the wood so I took it all. Looking at the stumps it was amazing that he didn't injure himself in the process. It was pretty scary!

Nils Jonsson

Quote from: DeerMeadowFarm on February 01, 2021, 08:25:24 AM
I'm not sure about not being able to visit logging operations...I have watched loggers working in Maine and Massachusetts many times. As far as I know, there is no license required to run a chainsaw for homeowners and I don't think it's even required for professionals. I know that some insurance companies offer discounts in an effort to get people trained.

I have gone through level 1-4 in Game of Logging Training just for my own safety and knowledge. A friend of mine's neighbor cut a bunch of trees down in his yard and didn't want the wood so I took it all. Looking at the stumps it was amazing that he didn't injure himself in the process. It was pretty scary!
Thanks for the reply. Actually if you work in your own forest over here, you don't need a license even if your forest is certified. Not all logical if you ask me. Anyway, it's good to know what you are dealing with. Chainsaws are no toys (even if it sometimes feels like that ;D).
Game of Logging is available here too, or was anyway. I think it's quite similar to our "driver's license". 

doc henderson

interesting concept.  It reminds me of the gun debate.  in areas of the Midwest knowledge is passed down generation to generation, but they did come up with hunters safety in the mid seventies.  so the chainsaw did not kill him, but the weight of the tree.  I think as part of a business, you will have some liability if best practices and included training is not demonstrated.  It is funny, but to use a chainsaw at a scout camp, requires a chainsaw safety course and certificate.  otherwise a camp ranger can use one or authorize the use.  there are requirements for road construction and mining such as rock quarries by federal agencies.  The tree services have all kinds of safety rules.  i.e. working in a tree above a certain height, and you must have a watcher and safety harness.
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mike_belben

Praise The Lord

doc henderson

I am sorry to hear about it as well.  In my younger years, I survived quite a few things that I lived to learn from.  knowledge is power.
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Old saw fixer

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sawguy21

I too am sorry to hear of your loss. I have had friends and co workers injured or killed in the forest industry, it is never easy. A faller has to be certified to be covered by WorkSafe in British Columbia, it is a comprehensive course but does not protect against complacency or plain bad luck. I can get a permit to cut blowdown and standing dead on crown land but I am on my own as far as liability goes.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Andries

Nils, condolences on the loss of your friend.
It would be good for you to learn more of his accident, so that it isn't repeated.
.
In Manitoba and Ontario, it's very similar to sawguy21's comments.
To visit a logging site or working in one, requires all sorts of liability and regulator requirements.
My son is a licensed arborist and he has all sorts of guidelines to follow as he goes about his business.
However, those examples are businesses and involve employees.
A landowner that buys a chainsaw and then starts to drop trees on his property has no licensing requirements, or any proof that he knows what he's doing. He can be up a tree wearing nothing but shorts and crocs and gunning the heck out of his little chainsaw, and there are no regulations to stop that. It's ridiculous behaviour, but . . . .
In the home, step ladders kill more people in North America than any other thing. Table saws, miter saws, air nailers . . . the list goes on and on.
I'm ok with a lack of regulation at that level, because otherwise, where does that stop?

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Philbert

Thank you for the link, and for sharing the technique for bore cutting a 'blow down' tree.  Basic sawyer instruction often covers felling simple trees, limbing, and bucking.  But storm damaged trees are often the most 'interesting', due to the complex tension, compression, torsion, etc.

Philbert

Nils Jonsson

Thank you for the condolences. Me too would very much like to know exactly what happened. It seems that he was not alone and that he was working falling trees around a summer house. However, I don't know the people he was working with and the common friends that I have been talking to, knows as little as I do. In the news was written that the police are making an investigation about the accident. 

Nowadays I'm quite cautious when I work with the chainsaw. I almost always work alone, but mainly with small tress in thinning. But when I started in 1979-1980, directly after forestry school, I just had to try everything I learned NOT to do in school. When I look back it seems a miracle that I survived my first years in the forest. 

Old Greenhorn

I meant to chime in hear a few days ago but been busy. Very sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. Even good fallers can get into a bad spot once in a while, training only goes so far and even then, there can be unforeseen things happening.
 Around here, as others have said, for the home or landowner there is no regulation. For the logging and tree companies, it is kind of up to them, but frankly they need insurance and because the liability is so high, those insurance companies set out some rules which require training and re-certification. In my state the easy way to do that is using the state program called 'New York Trained Logger Certification' (NYTLC) which requires GOL as part of it, but also first aid/CPR, and silviculture training, Best Management Practices, etc. There is a continuing education requirement to keep your ticket up to date. Most logging & tree company insurers require this for their clients. On certain public properties (such as the Watershed or State lands) they will not even let a truck driver on the site unless they are certified when operations are going on. Having the NYTLC in hand is also a handy way to help a newer person find a job. But all this is 'voluntary', that is, not required by law.
 I got my certification in order to learn and be as safe as possible because I too cut by myself most of the time and I would be lying if I didn't admit that every once in a while one still goes the wrong way, breaks where I didn't expect it, or flips a leader right back at me. I got my NYTLC a few years back and will keep it current as long as I am able.
 Stay safe and welcome to the forum.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Nils Jonsson

Now I have got a little bit of information about what happened here. It seems that they were two persons working at the same site, or actually it was a summer house garden out in the woods. My friends colleague, managed to fell a big birch on my friend. 
I donĀ“t know the guy who felled the birch, but I've been told he was a forest contractor, former customer and a friend of the fatally injured man. 

Corruption Logs

Here in Colorado, the forest service puts on training classes several times a year. The classes are usually free and 3 days long. This gets you an S212 certificate. There are 3 levels of this certificate, depending on experience and quality of workmanship. Having this certificate allows you to work with a saw crew for the USFS or, what I think happens most of the time, to cut or fell with a local club. My wife and I volunteer with the local snowmobile club, and we use this training to cut for keeping the trails clear of windfall and such.

I'm not as familiar with the commercial aspect in our area, but getting certified opens up a lot of doors on the volunteer side.

Mean Dean

To clear horse trails of fallen trees in National Forest lands I had to take a hands on chain saw course. Now I strap a saw and everything else to my horse along with having to carry me and go on trails after bad storms.

John Mc

Quote from: Corruption Logs on February 25, 2021, 06:05:59 PM
Here in Colorado, the forest service puts on training classes several times a year. The classes are usually free and 3 days long. This gets you an S212 certificate. There are 3 levels of this certificate, depending on experience and quality of workmanship. Having this certificate allows you to work with a saw crew for the USFS or, what I think happens most of the time, to cut or fell with a local club. My wife and I volunteer with the local snowmobile club, and we use this training to cut for keeping the trails clear of windfall and such.

I'm not as familiar with the commercial aspect in our area, but getting certified opens up a lot of doors on the volunteer side.
Do you have any links to descriptions of that training? I'd love to see how it compares to the training offered out here (usually by private companies, rather than the forest service).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow


firefighter ontheside

When I was fighting fire in the American west, I was not a certified faller.  I could carry the saw for our fallers if it wasn't running, but I was not allowed to cut anything.  Years later I took the S212 class which gives you a certificate that could be viewed as a license to use a chainsaw on federal land.  From the class you would be certified as an A, B or C faller depending on your experience and skill.  Because I was a first timer in the class I only got A.  The instructor said he would have given me B if it had been the second time through the class.  I don't remember the sizes, but A was small trees and C is the biggest.  I would like to take the class again to review and maybe learn something new.  I'm not too concerned about what level I get since I do not do wildland firefighting anymore.  When I went to a fire at Yellowstone Nat'l Park, they would only let crews that were part of a government agency fall trees in the Park.  They were excited when we showed up from Missouri, because we were the first agency crew to arrive.  Our fallers were quite busy for a while until more agency crews showed up.
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sawguy21

I was part of a Canadian helicopter crew chasing fires in the U.S. in the late 80's. It went well until we tried to get on a big one at Yellowstone, if we had stayed with it we MIGHT have gotten clearance the following spring. This was in September. We gave up and came home.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

firefighter ontheside

 @sawguy21 I would have loved to have gone to Canada at some point to help fight your fires.  It was cool to have gone to Yellowstone as a firefighter.  I was a kid in the 80's when Yellowstone burned and watched it on TV.  My dad was a hotshot in the 60's in Oregon.  I was really happy to go to Oregon to fight fires one year.  I felt like I was following in dad's footsteps.  I know it made him happy too.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

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