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Gas vs Electric on small mills

Started by K-Guy, November 19, 2019, 01:43:56 PM

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Al_Smith

A couple of facts .You can't make small amounts of electrical  power cheaper than you can buy it .If it were not so you would see every factory in the USA with a power house .
By the same token if electrical power was not less expensive regarding initial cost ,usage cost and operational advantage you would see gigantic Diesels or steam turbines running line shafts like in the 1890's .You might see that among the Amish or some third world country but not otherwise at least on these shores . 

Al_Smith

Rambling on .I have a bandsaw mill I've been building forever it seems .I have  several choices 15 HP Wisconsin twin .31 HP Wisconsin V 4 or 18 HP pancake twin Briggs .Electric 7.5 and 10 HP .Because I'm a little familiar with electrical ( 50 some years at it )a rotary converter would be a breeze to make .

Not having to listen to a gas guzzling  Wisconsin  4 chugging away would be one thing  high on the priority list Not having the mill portable for another by having everybody in three counties wanting me to come slice the apple tree in the back yard into lumber. I'm a nice guy just not that nice . ;) 

Southside

Quote from: Al_Smith on November 21, 2019, 09:51:49 AMA couple of facts .You can't make small amounts of electrical  power cheaper than you can buy it .If it were not so you would see every factory in the USA with a power house .


I think that has to be looked at in a broader context.  On the surface it's like saying you can't make cheaper lumber than you can buy at the store.....SPF 2x4 from Lowes, yes the answer is spot on.  Want vertical grain, SYP flooring, or clear walnut, different story.  

Personally I witnessed stand alone, bio-mass plants fail each and every time, even bought a bunch of equipment out of one for less than $0.01 on the dollar, MCC's, a truck dumper, etc.  But, those were buying their feed stock and competing with pulp to do so, selling their electricity at wholesale rates, and throwing away their heat in the form of cooling towers.  

Large factories, not in the timber / lumber industry, would have a logistics nightmare with co-generation, they would need to own more land, compete with suppliers, deal with the regulators, etc.  On the other hand many larger mills that had their own co-gen plants did quite well and supplied excess to the grid, especially those that owned their own timber land, when I was growing up and they didn't have the advantage of todays technology, they were simply boiling water.
 
At my size I can't make any money selling my waste product, too small to wholesale it, and not worth it to retail it, so I compost it - which is fine, but that costs me money in that I need to turn it, spread it, etc.  Not saying that is bad, but if those expenses become a savings it's part of the equation.  

The other difference that is attractive and I think outside of the typical "cheaper to buy" scenario is that the heat would not be a waste stream / liability, rather an asset that I already buy energy for now, and could further diversify my cash stream with.  It helps also that I have a decent wood lot with plenty of low value, pulp timber on it that I keep walking by trying to find the best revenue stream for as buying a firewood processor is not attractive and I just can't stand shipping it off as pulp at $30 / ton delivered.  

Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Al_Smith

On the subject,firstly this area of Ohio is not high impact logging .It's done on a selective cut method  in the hard woods .For all intents pulp wood is not the norm if at all .
Having said that about 25 miles south of where I live in NewKnoxville Ohio is Hoge Lumber .The largest supplier of bowling alley maple in the world and they have or had a co -generation plant .It wasn't without problems though ,had one fire I know of perhaps more .So weather it is or was a successful venture or not I can't say .
Wind power ,solar,bio-mass ,low water hydraulic ,gas generation from animal wastes and perhaps others are options .Weather they are good options I really can't say nor will opine .

Stephen1

I just read an article from Thunder Bay Ontario, a  young arborist is now using his chips and others at a certain size, in a biogeneration plant for the university. I think it is in this issue of bio magazine I get . I will see if I can find it. They dry the chips in a tent and generate with it. A lot of resources are going into the Bio Generation research. 
I see what SS is saying.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Bruno of NH

Many schools in my area have turned to chip burners for heating and hot water. 
All the ones that went to wood pellets have had nothing but problems. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

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