100" hardwood firewood cost?

Corley5 · November 07, 2005, 09:12:14 PM

What's the going rate for a cord of 100" hardwood firewood in your area ??? ??? I've been doing some shopping and costs are ranging anywhere from 60 to 70 bucks per cord delivered around here for green fresh cut ;) sugar maple, beech mix with a 4 week wait for delivery. I just placed an order for 20 cords of which 2/3 will be seasoned for $70.00 per cord. The wood should be delivered in the next week or so. I caught Mark at just the right time. He's hauling for a guy and his payment for hauling two loads is one load. He was looking for a place to deliver a whole train load rather than hauling it back to his shop, unhooking the pup, delivering the load on the lead and then loading it back up from the pup for another delivery. He was pretty happy when I told him I'd take a train load. ;D As soon as the processor shows up I'll be able to go right to selling seasoned firewood 8) 8) 8) I'm getting excited about my new toy now. It should be here in about a month and having seasoned wood to process and sell is gonna be a good thing 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) I was a bit apprehensive about selling green wood this time of the year. I planned on telling buyers it was green but just the same people don't always listen and then they'd complain because my wood was wet :

So this is gonna work out better than I thought 8) 8) 8) 8)

Hoop · November 07, 2005, 10:18:49 PM

Hard maple goes for $100 cord. Soft maple & white birch go for $80 - $90 cord. Red oak ranges from $60 - $90 cord.

Gary_C · November 08, 2005, 10:01:13 AM

Thats a good price as I can get over $90 for Maple delivered at the pulp mill.

If you are planning to sell firewood I would recommend that you buy an inexpensive moisture meter to check dryness. Wood does not dry much in logs and only somewhat more when cut to firewood lengths. You do not want to start out selling "seasoned" wood that is still not very dry.

SwampDonkey · November 08, 2005, 10:55:32 AM

Quote from: Gary_C on November 08, 2005, 10:01:13 AM
You do not want to start out selling "seasoned" wood that is still not very dry.

I agree with Gary, it's probably not a very good idea if you want to retain customers from year to year.

We have to pay pulpwood market price for 100 " and treelength. There are some that like try to squeeze another $10 a cord from it, but with our marketing board system anyone can find out the price in 5 minutes.

Corley5 · November 08, 2005, 11:53:02 AM

You can also tell just by the look of the wood in cross section about how dry it is. I cut some this year from tops that had been laying for over a year. Some of it was very dry and some of it you could see the moisture in it. I could always test burn some. If it sizzles it's not very dry ;D ;) When the wood gets here I'll know for sure and may get a moisture meter then

beenthere · November 08, 2005, 12:22:33 PM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 08, 2005, 10:55:32 AM........... There are some that like try to squeeze another $10 a cord from it, but with our marketing board system anyone can find out the price in 5 minutes.

So getting an extra $10 is not cricket?

SwampDonkey · November 08, 2005, 12:32:48 PM

Quote from: beenthere on November 08, 2005, 12:22:33 PM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 08, 2005, 10:55:32 AM........... There are some that like try to squeeze another $10 a cord from it, but with our marketing board system anyone can find out the price in 5 minutes.

So getting an extra $10 is not cricket?

Well, it's a little unethical especially since the haul is generally closer than the mill. Put another way, you wouldn't be very popular among stovewood buyers. Now if I was a stovewood processor and had to hold over the wood for several months I'de feel compelled to get a little extra. But, not many fellas can afford to sit on wood too long, they have stumpage, men and truckers to be paid. ;)

beenthere · November 08, 2005, 12:45:24 PM

Doesn't sound like healthy economics to me. More like price control, and seems if someone wants wood delivered to their home rather than letting it go to the pulp plant, and they're willing to pay extra to get a load, then it should be okay. Nothing unethical about supply and demand, as it appears on the surface to me.

Different if the seller said he would deliver for the same price he gets at the pulp mill, and then jacks it up $10. That is unethical, IMO.

Corley5 · November 08, 2005, 01:12:58 PM

Last I heard hardwood pulp was paying just short of 85 dollars delivered to the rail head in Rexton. It was then sent to Quinisec but I've also heard something about a rail car shortage because so many had been sent to the Gulf area and there were issues with getting pulp to mills on time. Loggers and truckers around here that are buying and producing their own stumpage would rather sell as close to the job as possible even if it means selling for a bit less especially with diesel at $3.09 a gallon.

SwampDonkey · November 08, 2005, 03:27:51 PM

Most of the supply of firewood that exists (99% of it) in my area, only exists because there is a demand for pulpwood. Take that out of the equation and I agree the buyer would be left to shop around for firewood. If he could find it to begin with, it would likely be at a premium. But, it will balance out between all suppliers as long as there is no monopoly, but an oligopoly. In this case I feel differently about the ethics of the firewood pricing. The firewood processors i know around here are getting their supply off crown lands in the form of pulp (a small volume of wood is from private) being diverted to another value added product-firewood. If it's not processed to length (16 inch for example) and being sold as treelength or 100 " no one, in the know, will be paying more than pulp price. The only price fixing I can see is the market itself, the marketing board doesn't fix prices. In fact over the years I can remember contract prices being broken if the mill sees fit, so it might as well be written on bathroom tissue. In my experience the governing body (forest products commission) won't enforce contracts. I've never seen a mill with a contract with the board ever increase it's price mid-season. :

Yes, there are markets that buy hardwood sawlogs and veneer for instance that adjust prices, but there is no contract there, not enough volume. ;)

bwalker · November 21, 2005, 08:52:38 PM

Here in the central UP, Marquette county hardwood pulp is going for $110 per cord delivered. Pretty insane when you consider that two years ago it was less than half that. As mentioned before the shortage of rail cars and the fact that many log trucks have went south to clean up after the hurricanes for two seasons now have caused these prices.

SwampDonkey · November 22, 2005, 07:56:03 AM

How could it be half that when yo have the pay $40-50/cord to cut it and $25-30/cord to haul it and $15-20/cord for stumpage?

bwalker · November 22, 2005, 10:20:08 PM

QuoteHow could it be half that when yo have the pay $40-50/cord to cut it and $25-30/cord to haul it and $15-20/cord for stumpage?

I am just passing on what the prices where like two years ago. Also its very likely our costs are lower than yours, as your fuel and equipment and almost everything else costs more. Also keep in mind that firewood is the crap left over from harvesting. In my case I always try to buy cull logs that are too big for the pulp mill, but have no value as saw logs due to deffects of one form or the other as you get more weight per load.
The logger I use wasnt bitchin about prices being low two years ago BTW.

SwampDonkey · November 23, 2005, 07:44:19 AM

Michegan Stumpage reports

2002 stumpage (Avg)
PERE MARQUETTE STATE FOREST

Quaking Aspen - $22.25/cord
Mixed hardwood - $13.61/cord
Paper Birch - $12.83/cord

The logger may have been happy because he was getting cheep wood too. ;) Your costs per cord produced would not be much different than our own, from what different folks have posted on this forum. Rates differ between harvesting systems and equipment no matter where you are, because of production. Firewood here can be sold as firewood or pulp, it's one in the same.

bwalker · November 26, 2005, 09:31:18 PM

I am not sure where the Marquette National forest is, but its not in marquette county, or even in the upper peninsula of MI. Most of the ground here is private. Either owned by individuals or big companies like Mead/West Vaco, Champion Int,Kimberly-Clark etc.

OLD_ JD · November 26, 2005, 09:42:55 PM

[ because of production. Firewood here can be sold as firewood or pulp, it's one in the same]
No it's not...Firewood get paid in "cash money" ;) ;D ;D

SwampDonkey · November 27, 2005, 07:33:54 AM

PERE MARQUETTE STATE FOREST is in Leelanau, Benzie, Grand Traverse, Kalkaska, Manistee, Wexford, Missaukee, Mason, Lake, Osceola, Oceana, Newaygo and Mecosta counties in the upper lower penn.

I see they don't quote averages for the UP, but the low and high price is quoted in the reports. Quite a wide margin all over the state. I suppose that is because they are bid prices. Why would the prices be so low as you say in the UP, then the rest of the state.

Here are the ranges I've quoted from DNR in the UP

Quaking Aspen - $12.30-40.31/cord
Mixed hardwood - $5.00-66.78/cord
Paper Birch - $4.11-61.18/cord

QuoteFirewood get paid in "cash money"

If your moving wood through a large broker, they have been known to pay in cash. In fact I know of one large broker who hand delivered payment. But, are you implying something else? tax related?

bwalker · November 27, 2005, 02:49:05 PM

Pere Marquette is 5 hours or more away and I do not know why the prices are the way they are.

QuoteBut, are you implying something else? tax related?

I know exactly what he's getting at. 8) Buyer pays cash and the logger sticks it right in his pocket. ;) I pay the logger I use cash so he can do this if he so chooses, but he has never asked me to.