i am going to build a sawmill shed soon for our portable band mill and would like some ideas or pictures of anyones out there to kind of gather some perspective on what would work best we live in the adirondacks of n.y so snow is a factor i would need an opening of around 15to 20 feet if possible beam size for that span etc.. how to lift a beam that size without equipment i have heard of using a tall post with a pulley to hoist up any info or pictures would be appreciated thanks fivedogs
Good luck with your project.To keep you busy for a while,just under"show new replies to your post" is a search button for the forum.Put in sawmill shed and that will give you about 7 pages to look over.What have you got for a sawmill?What kind of wood will you be using?
i have a hudson 228 and was thinking of using pine i have a lot of it how about poplar for the beam to span
Hello Fivedogs, we were up at Crown Point a few years ago, walked around the old fort ruins there - It was about 95 that day, no snow load then :D :D
Instead of a beam, maybe make the opening the gable end and build a truss....a search, as suggested, will also show a recent post by Chet of a his built-up beam for his shed opening (as another good way).
But just a solid sawn beam, regardless of species, will have its limitations for opening size you likely want.
This past spring, there was a barn frame raising where a gin pole was rigged for raising the bents, shown here in the center. Guy ropes holding it straight.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/BentsUp_ff.JPG)
five dogs:
here is a picture i took of a wooden crane somebody built back in the olden days. maybe youre thinking of something lke that?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10842/wooden%20crane.jpg)
and then here is a picture of my deck i built onto my cabin. the deck area is 28' x 14'. obviously that post in the center cuts the useful opening for your log shed down to 14' on each side. but, what i was thinking is you could do something similar except take out the center post and put another post in from each end say about 4' in and then you'd have an opening of 20 feet. anyway, i lifted every piece of wood into place by myself without any lifting devices/tools. instead of one big beam, you could use 2 (or 3) smaller logs as i did here. these logs are about 6" diameter at the center point which in effect gave me about an 11" beam.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10842/deck%20const.jpg)
heres a btter view of the double beam:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10842/deck%20const%20snow.jpg)
thats my 2 cents worth! :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10842/deck%20post%20alteration.JPG)
this would be about a 20' wide opening using two 6" logs as your beam.
Go down to the timber framing section and look for info on gin poles, or ask a question about them and Jim Rogers will tell you all you need to know. ;) Rokky, it looks like someone started to build that cabin and plum forgot about finishing it.
Dave
Rokky
How did you fasten the two poles together along their length to give it the extra strength? ???
dave- that is one of the buildings at "Old Victoria Historic Townsite" in Ontonagon county, Upper Michigan. heres a link, some nice pictures:
http://www.ontonagonmi.com/oldvictoria.html
been there: i used barn spikes thru the smaller log end into the bigger butt end where i could. hopefully, i'll get around to either putting a few thru bolts every few feet or wrap the two logs together with a couple loops of 1/8 x 1" metal flat bar every few feet. the two logs are scribe fitted together their full length just as the regular log walls.
I think I see what beenthere is getting at. When a beam is built up of several pieces the shear between pieces has to be accounted for or the strength is really that of each individual ply. I had some pics on the computer that might help show horizontal shear.
First drawing shows a beam and how the shear magnitude increases towards the ends;
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/shear.jpg)
The next 4 show a setup demonstrating how the stresses work in a beam made up of several loose laminations. Notice the shear in the middle is zero and the most displacement, strain, happens towards the ends;
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/shear1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/shear2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/shearmid.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/shearend.jpg)
I'd lean towards bolting Rokky, I think the loops would just let the beams slide past one another under full load.
Edit, found a thread that goes into the shear in a built up beam a good bit deeper;
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=24971.0
ty don. thats interesting. i can see how bolts would be more effective against horizontal slippage between the two logs. i'll do it that way.
i love the look of black iron on wood beams, etc. so i'm always adding pcs here and there. maybe i'll add a few black iron straps just for looks.
Regarding the picture of the dovetailed building at old victoria near Rockland michigan.
That image was taken in the early 1900's when volunteers had started building an older style home on
the original foundation. They had welded up a base and a top for guys.
It had not survived from the olden days.
I know this cuase I knew the guys who were doing it.
I lashed tall cedar poles to the corner posts, put a chain hoist on the poles and hoisted the horizontal beams in place.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13036/saw_shed3_006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1392714517)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13036/saw_shed_001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1392714441)
KelLOGg, I like your method of chaining the cedar pole to the post! Nice contraption!
The snow load is a major complication in being able to span 20'. If you can get 2x12 in that length of good quality, you could make a built-up beam. A beam made of multiple 2x12 will be much stronger than a single sawn beam of the same overall dimension.
A gable truss might be your best option. if you want to have a shed roof, the beam over the opening will have to hold up half the snow load. The beams on the other "wall' will be holding up the other half. if your shed is 20' wide that means the beam has to support the weight of a 20x10 area. If you have a 80 pounds per square foot snow ground load, that means the beam is holding up 16,000 lbs.
if you click on the Red toolbox on the left, you'll find a link to Don P's beam calculators. There is one for timbers and one for built-up beams. For a 20' span with a 16,000 lb load it would take a single sawn beam 10x24 of #2 spruce/fir. For a built up beam it would take sixteen 2x12 to carry that load.
This span is a good candidate for a truss, glu-lam, LVL, a flitch, or a steel beam.
Thread is from 2007 so hopefully he got it licked by now.
You can raise a beam on a pair of 55gal drums. Put some thick wood on top to make a non skid, sturdy platform that utilizes the strength of the drum's rim. Now get the beam up onto that end for end. Make a staircase of cinder blocks or firewood rounds to get up it if you have to.
Then a block onto the drum next to the beam.. beam onto the block, then 2 blocks stacked, beam onto that, etc etc. So you are just building a vertical tower in a left right left right fashion and walking the beam from one to the other, alternating ends as you go. Like a vertical ladder.
When it gets high enough you put ladders under the beam, pull the block towers apart and put strong, even stacking pallets under the drums, then build back up and repeat until you are there.
I do like the jibless spar lashed to post idea. Adding that to the toolbox.
Wow! I didn't notice the date of the opening post. Anyway, I'm glad you can use the cinching idea. It has served me well for a long time.
Bob