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Preparing a sawmill sight

Started by Crossroads, May 08, 2021, 02:38:52 PM

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Crossroads

I have 20 acres of mostly hillside, next week I'll be moving a bunch of dirt to make some more flat ground. The main objective is to make enough flat ground to build a sawmill shed that will also house a planner molder. 
https://youtube.com/shorts/TQwggRwiyII?feature=share
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

longtime lurker

Nooooooooooo, don't flatten it.

Several years back I fell across a sawmill layout diagram in an old USFS or USDA paper. Circa 1950's or so from memory.  Half looked, seen something interesting, "going to go back and reread that one day" and... never found it again.

Doesn't matter because the principal of the setup was so perfectly simple and incredibly complex at the same time that the exact layout is irrelevant.

The sawmill was built on the side of a hill. Log yard on a flat spot at the top. Lumber yard on a flat spot at the bottom. And it was all setup on a series of benches between top and bottom and material gravity fed from one area to the next.
So logs in at the top, slight downgrade to the stop and load for the headsaw.
Material comes back and gravity feeds down a couple dead rollers or skids to the resaw or edger or whatever you got next.
Material comes out and gravities down past the docker.
Material comes out and gravities to the stacking area
All the way down waste comes back to a central set of dead rollers or skids and winds up consolidated at the bottom.
Same with sawdust... you don't need a lot of blower to keep sawdust moving down a downhill pipe and you can cut a natural bunker into the side of the hill that will hold bulk volumes.

Yanno how much you can spend on greenchains and transfers and alla that stuff? All to do what a couple 4 x 2's can do when gravity is providing the horsepower. Let gravity do the work.

That design principal has been in my head for a long time, it's just I haven't got a suitable site for it.
Yet.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Crossroads

I like the concept, but the ball is in motion. I only have about 5 months to get the flat spot made and a roof overhead before the snow comes at which point my mobile sawmill business gets parked. I may be able to incorporate some of the waste disposal to the lower road though 🤔
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

mike_belben

Youve got my gears turning LL.  

mustache-smiley
Praise The Lord

Southside

Gotta say I am with LL on this one.  I have pushed, shoveled, picked up, and paid employees to do the same, enough material that the thought of digging a hole and building a hill for the mill has been considered.  I drool at the setup that @Percy has, kickers to throw lumber off onto collection racks, all accessible with a loader.   Realize you have a short window, but imagine the labor savings.   
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Crossroads

Yeah, the wheels are turning for sure. I'll have to look around for more information. With the limited time I have, I'll probably continue with the flat spot and think smaller on the building. I may have to remove some dirt somewhere later. When I first read that post, I pictured pretty big elevation changes, but now that I've had time to ponder the idea. A foot here or a foot there with roller tables would be huge. Maybe I need to set down with pencil and paper and figure out the flow sooner than later. My tunnel vision had me just worried about a flat covered area to work.....
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

Crossroads

LL, if you can think of any more information about the article that might help with a search, it would be greatly appreciated. 
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

longtime lurker

I just spent a couple hours on google looking for about the 5th time in the last ten years. :D

Yanno it didn't stick because maybe at the time I didn't see the beauty of it or it wasn't applicable to me then. But it's just kind of churned around in my head for years and every so often I'd go try and refind it. Guess the internet was smaller then in terms of how much information has been uploaded.

I think the thing is that it's a really simple concept, but actual installation would require a bit of thought and a bit of long term vision. But the truth is that we've got this habit of wanting to build on level surfaces... because its easy. But maybe easy today is long term expensive. Where's the rule that says you can't pour a floor on the slope and let even the floor be self cleaning? Where's the rule says you've got to pour the floor even - I mean there's been no shortage of lumber cut on dirt floors over the years.

I'm sitting here looking at a slope I have here and it's maybe 1:15. For sure cants and flitches would slide down rollers on it, maybe too fast.  One good sized log would be enough of a retaining wall if I wanted benched floors. I mean really the basic premise of the layout I remember was that it was this "flat floored layout" but with it broken up to use gravity, back pre hydraulic motors. "Dead" conveyor rollers are cheap.

I'm really curious about where this could go. It's about efficiency yeah?  Cheap to build, cheap to run, fulfils the required function - I'd say thats part of the definition of materials handling efficiency.


The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Crossroads

I'm having a hard time getting my head around the positioning of the infeed so that I can gravity to the next step and still be able to access the finished product at the bottom with the skid steer with the space I have available. This definitely is something that is going to require some thought and planning. 
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

mike_belben

Put your mill and livedeck up on the flat pointing out over the bluff and trussed up like a train trestle. Picture a gravity roller diving board or 'walk the plank.'  A line out over a hollow perpendicular to the bank.  This way stuff can be kicked off left and right which doubles the number of sorts that the length of the conveyor can accomodate.  Air actuation is the way to go imo since one central feed line can have many taps and solenoid valves down the length.  Small control wires are cheap


Your dragback knocks wood onto the gravity line. In between the rollers you can use air pedals at your feet to flip up stopper plates at set distances.  The stopperplates have a paddle switch to engage the air cylinder that flips the kicker fingers up when the wood hits it, to launch the flitch or slab over the side.  


Thats the main linear sort line.  Branching off the sides like the limbs of a tree are the catch baskets which can be as cheap and simple as cables inside pex tubing (to slide easy and prevent bluestain) or conveyor belting or stainless capped steel rails that slide down to a set of piers so the bundles stay up off the ground for fork access.


You saw while one laborer uses skid steer to round up the collections of like material down below then transport back up to begin the next station, be it kiln or edger or crosscut or packing area etc etc on your other flat surfaces down the line.  Each line can start up top, progress over the bank to a collection area.  


Think of a water park or ski mountain.  Theres lots of fun choices but they all start up top at a central area.

Remember a skid steer can always climb with more weight than it can descend.

Praise The Lord

mike_belben

another thought.. Have the wood come off your sawmill dump first onto a reversible power belt .. Like a hydraulic treadmill next to the saw, opposite the livedeck.

This way you can park the skid steer up top and if you want to send something down the gravity line the treadmill valve sends it over the hill.  Say you want to keep tie cants uptop but send slabwood and jacket boards down the gravity sort, the treadmill can make the first sort.  That is --Stay up top (convey onto the loader forks or into customers trailer) or go down the waterslide of further processing.  
Praise The Lord

Southside

If you have not seen them check out the videos Percy has on Youtube of his set up.  The music ones are pretty good too.   smiley_guitarist 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Percy

Quote from: mike_belben on May 09, 2021, 09:47:52 AM
another thought.. Have the wood come off your sawmill dump first onto a reversible power belt .. Like a hydraulic treadmill next to the saw, opposite the livedeck.

This way you can park the skid steer up top and if you want to send something down the gravity line the treadmill valve sends it over the hill.  Say you want to keep tie cants uptop but send slabwood and jacket boards down the gravity sort, the treadmill can make the first sort.  That is --Stay up top (convey onto the loader forks or into customers trailer) or go down the waterslide of further processing.  
Lol@waterslide of further processing :D

GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Percy

Quote from: Southside on May 09, 2021, 11:10:32 AM
If you have not seen them check out the videos Percy has on Youtube of his set up.  The music ones are pretty good too.   smiley_guitarist
Thanks!
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

mike_belben

Percy ive seen your vid a while back and remember power rollers.  Are yours the style thats ganged and driven by a daisy chain of "O-ring" type belts over the roller on in a crimped channel?  Ive worked on those systems but not any other power roller. How did you do it?


And how do your stoppers and kickers work?
Praise The Lord

Resonator

Make sure to plan a good level area to load and unload trucks, and the easier it is to get trucks in and out the better. Also room for staging finished lumber before it is loaded, and sorting logs as they are delivered. As the operation grows have a tentative plan for excess storage and future expansion. 
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Crossroads

I may have left out an important detail. For now at least, we don't have electricity. That may change in the not so distant future though. Also, at this point I don't really want to have employees. Of course that could change as time goes on. 

The area where the dirt is coming from up by the Honda car, will serve as a staging area for logs and possibly lumber. 
I have started a drawing, but haven't gotten far. 
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

mike_belben

A york 210 AC conpressor run by a single belt can make enough air for lots of air cylinders and kickers.  They lasted hundreds of thousands of miles on cars and parts are available.  clutch actuated by 12vdc.. And easy to let a pressure switch control it.  So the mill engine could easily provide the air.
Praise The Lord

Southside

Avoid the need to have employees. Have some you want, but not need. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Crossroads

Quote from: Southside on May 09, 2021, 08:09:28 PM
Avoid the need to have employees. Have some you want, but not need.
Good point!
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

Crossroads

Well the 30k excavator showed up about 1:00pm on Tuesday and I got started moving dirt. Wednesday afternoon a friend and his dad came over from Oregon to help. We worked for a couple more hours after they got here. Today we got a lot done, but broke a new track on the skiddy 🙁. Tomorrow I'm back to being solo running the excavator, dump truck and skiddy, so things will slow down quite a bit.

With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

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