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Many Chainsaw and lawn equipment repair shops unable to recruit young people.

Started by axeman2021, July 30, 2021, 05:18:13 PM

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axeman2021

Do you agree or disagree with me that many shops selling Chainsaws and other lawn equipment, just don't seem to have many young people to replace the older people who are retiring.

And the people they do find don't have any training or understanding of how to do the repairs also they end up just not staying.

The Automotive Dealers have programs with many Jr. Colleges, to give young people the needed training to get them started.

Does any of the major Chainsaw and Lawn Equipment Companies  have any type of training programs of this type to get younger repair people for their Dealers?

On another subject:

My Dealer for over 25 years has one man same man i have used for years doing around all the Chainsaw and small mower and edger repair, and i have seen maybe 100+ Chainsaws and maybe 300+ of other lawn Equipment waiting to be repaired.

My trusted repair man tells me in the summer he is required, to work six days a week, and he is not a young man and is not ever catching up with the repairs, and the shop does not have A/C just fans and with the summer heat the shop is always near 90.

So i can understand why a new hire young guy does not stick around very long.

lxskllr

Are they trying to get new techs? Are they offering pay like they're trying? Seems like it's a fairly limited business. Almost everybody has a car, and doesn't treat them as if they're disposable. Not everyone uses outdoor equipment, and a decent percentage of the ones that do, treat the gear as disposable. Less need.

Yea, it's uncomfortable work a lot of the time, but so are a lot of things like construction. You just need to find the right person to fill the spot. That'll require someone that already has interest, and aptitude. You can't really just drop someone in that wants money. There's easier ways of making money. It has to be a "calling".

Lostinmn

We remove vocational technical education from high schools and you get less kids with any mechanical training or background, and add less small family farms, bound to be less youngsters with skills and/or interest in doing that kind of work.

Not to mention it is much harder to maintain the same cost of living with blue collar jobs then it was several decades ago.  

Soon we won't have anyone to fix anything.  Of course since most manufacturing prefers when possible to have cheap but more disposable products, maybe it will all work out  ;D  :(

mike_belben

The educators have replaced shop class with gender studies.  I think the small repair shop will go the way of the small slaughter house. Endangered 
Praise The Lord

Real1shepherd

This is just the tip of the iceberg. People have to be reeducated that it takes time to repair a small engine and a $25 average bill is unreasonable to support even a small shop. I've been inside MANY small engine repair shops and for the most part, they're not making any attempt to have reasonable working conditions for employees. In fact, some of the shops are so deplorable, they won't let you back there where they work. So what would be the enticement for a young adult, other than a 'Carl' from "Sling Blade"?

Did it always have to be this way(?)NO.....look at Rich Dougan's shop on the Oregon coast, on YouTube.

If you think many Millennials have no interest in doing repairs, check out how Gen Z's feel about that issue. You're going to see golf courses disappear too. A lot of the young adults think it's an expensive, stupid hobby/sport with no point.

Kevin

Southside

It's not just the kids, can't tell you how many employees over 35 I assumed had basic skills - you know, use a tape measure, swing a hammer to knock a fence nail in - not talking crown moulding and a punch here - run a saw to rough cut a board, understand the difference between a crescent wrench and a pipe wrench.   Those basic skills, or the ability to watch someone and pick it up, are gone for a couple of generations now as a rule.  Framing square?  :D  :D  :D

I kid you not that a customer who was a nurse was surprised to learn that cows had to give birth to produce milk.  ::)
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Spike60

Hope you guys feel like reading.............:)

Axeman's thesis is spot on. And it's been a serious problem in the industry for a long time. Certainly predates the pandemic related nonsense. "Can't find good techs" is a lead topic of trade magazines, meetings and seminars every year. Box stores and online sales is one elephant in the room that nobody really wants to talk about. It's just a basic math thing in that the percentage of units sold by businesses that don't participate in the service side of the industry has exploded in the last 20 years.

Scarier to the industry than lack of techs is the problem of "dealer attrition". Many deaalers have no succession plan in place unless it's family oriented. They get to the point where they've had enough and put the business up for sale. But it's  not an easy type of business to sell because not many people have any desire to do this, let alone the experience to succeed. So, the business gets listed and it usually goes one of two ways. Most often, the dealer gives up, closes the business and sells the property. The sad alternative I've seen too many times is the dealer just stays there until they wheel him out on a gurney. (Not gonna happen to me :) )

So, the problem is compounded to where it goes beyond not enough techs, to not enough dealers in many markets. A lot of you guys can probably think of several shops in your areas that are no longer around, right? Where'd they all go? When we opened up 27 years ago, we were one of 8 shops on a 30 mile stretch of the highway we're on. We're the only one left.

I feel bad for that older tech with that insane amount of work backed up. I know the type of shop; NEVER turn anything away. But he's killing that poor guy, and not exactly pleasing his customers with a 2 month waiting list. Which is why we turn a LOT of stuff away. Our only serious obligation is to take care of the products we sold and the customers that bought them. We do an A+ job there. The rest of the equipment that's out there, we'll try and fit you in if your local. But the amount of people out there, and the distance from which they are calling still amazes us. Not my fault that everybody else left the market, and we like the size business we are. Plus at 65, there's zero interest in growing the business. I'm looking to throttle back fellas!

IX absolutely nailed it about finding the right fit. Gotta be someone who really likes this industry and just wants to do this stuff. Similar in a way to how we come here to talk about saws, cause of our enthusiast/hobby interest. Out of all the people who will be running saws wherever tomorrow, how many are hanging out on a saw chat site tonight talking about them? So, a guy who's "into equipment" is more likely to stay and can make a steady living. Can't just be a guy who needs a job, cause he'll never stay past the first season. Not easy IMO to cultivate good techs with vocational programs for the same reason. It's kind of a weak genuine interest. We're lucky though. Got a good one and he's 30 years old. Hoping he can take things over in a couple years.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

sawguy21

It is a tough racket, I am glad I am out of it. When I started in the mid 70's we were able to service what we sold. We reground valves, rebored, reground cranks, rebuilt saws but those skills have gone by the wayside. So much now is cheaper to replace than rebuild thanks to the big box retailer and his demanding customer. When was the last ime anyone overhauled a carburetor? The industry doesn't pay a living wage and the work isn't steady, we make good money for three or four months but pay bills for twelve. I got into it because I loved what I was doing but my grandchildren have no interest in entering the trades and getting their hands dirty.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Ianab

It's not just small engines. 

My field is electronics and computers. So when I started out, we had computers you could actually take apart, manuals and circuit diagrams. I spent many years doing board level repairs on Commodore 64 and Amiga computers, replacing faulty ICs etc.  

Now, a lot of devices are simply sealed, a big blob of glue.  It's a $1,000 blob of glue, but if a $5 part inside fails, like the charging port, you buy a new one.  Parts and service info isn't available even if you can prise the thing open.  

The local High School that our eldest daughter attends still has "shop", although it's up to date with CAD machines and 3D printers etc. We are a small rural town, and the local jobs are farming / building / servicing machinery / electrician etc.  So they figure a decent % of students are going for careers like that. But they are going to looking for decent jobs (conditions and pay), and there is better money servicing tractors, milking machinery and replacing water pumps.  

Heck, at the moment, if you can make good coffee you have a choice of jobs. School has "hospitality" as a course option, and teaches the basics of being a Barista. Hey it's a steady job, with all the coffee you might want.  :D 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Real1shepherd

Small engine repair is a tough business model fer sure these days. My town is about 33,000 people give or take. We now just have two small engine repair shops. During the spring/summer season you can't even consider going there for repair....they're swamped. Things slow down a bit in the fall but then it's leaf blower season. Winters here are all over the map...some severe, many mild. You can't count on snow removal equipment sales/repair.

As said, it's an often thankless job, small engine repair and it does take a certain type of young person to take over. It's more of the satisfaction/challenge of fixing things than the money. Most of them with any sense that stay with it, hope to run/have the business some day. In a generation of titles and fancy job descriptions to make you feel more important about yourself, small engine repair is not high on the list. 

My goal with my old bones is to open a repair clinic. But not just small engines....most anything I've just taken apart and fixed. Sawguy mentioned carbs....lots of vintage cars/RV's around here with carbs. I smell them when I'm in traffic behind them. They have no idea how to tune/rebuild them....just sad.

Anyway, my goal is to have people say, "Take it to Kevin, he can fix anything from bikes to old washing machines."

Kevin

Spike60

Quote from: Real1shepherd on July 31, 2021, 10:28:41 AM
Anyway, my goal is to have people say, "Take it to Kevin, he can fix anything from bikes to old washing machines."

Kevin
You'll be sorry............ :D
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Spike60

Quote from: Ianab on July 31, 2021, 01:21:51 AM

Heck, at the moment, if you can make good coffee you have a choice of jobs. School has "hospitality" as a course option, and teaches the basics of being a Barista. Hey it's a steady job, with all the coffee you might want.  :D
Never heard "barista" before; had to look it up.  :o
Another new term that we don't really need. 
Similar to people don't drink water anymore, they "hydrate".  ::)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: Spike60 on July 31, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: Real1shepherd on July 31, 2021, 10:28:41 AM
Anyway, my goal is to have people say, "Take it to Kevin, he can fix anything from bikes to old washing machines."

Kevin
You'll be sorry............ :D
I was thinking the same thing but I didn't want to rain on his parade. :D :D He will see every manner of 'modern junk' come along that was never intended to be repaired. In time, he will develop that notch of folks and job that fit his profile and get overloaded.
 It still amazes me the number of people who call me and ask for a reference for a good (insured) arborist or some other specialty work and when I ask what their timeline is they say 'the next week or two, no rush'. :D ;D I tell them anybody that is good will not be able to do your job for 3-6 months. Anybody that can do it next week is probably not good. Same thing with all skilled trades these days.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

sawguy21

Isn't that the truth! FF member Paul_H owns a rental yard and small engine shop in our town, the only one for 25 miles in either direction. He does well because he is dedicated to his customers, knows his product and has built a solid reputation but he will never get rich or famous. The tech is a wizard on saws which are his passion but that is only a small part of the business.
He quickly learned to be selective and say no when he had to. They get upset when told their Chinese built trimmer or grandpas IEL saw are not repairable but most understand when reality is explained to them.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Southside

Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Paul_H

Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

kantuckid

Having spent many years as a skilled tradesman and even more years in technical education I'll try to tame down my response:
Vocational schools have not closed so much as been poorly promoted. We had a name for it that I'll spare saying in complete words-it was "send the blanks to Vo-tech" which was how many school counselors looked at it and still do.  What was closed and mostly a long ways back was the traditional, what I'll call schjool shop classes like I took starting in 7th grade.
Another factor is that6 politics and budgets affect training thats provided but mostly should be driven by industry and trades. All KY vo-tech programs have an advisory group that should include both trades people, maybe unions and human resources or dealer service mgrs. & industrial mgrs..
Small engines, etc. just doesn't have the umph to make much happen training wise? Exception of note that comes to mind is marine related trades which would include outboards, etc..
Few persons have the business savy/training plus small engines/machines to build a dealership along with a serious amount of bucks.
Many powersports dealers sideline in chainsaws mowers, etc. and maybe tractors, so on and they train there small engine people via mfg.'s training who are (or should be) trained in vehicles most likely first time around.
Yes, we have generations now who cannot hang a picture on the wall. But many of them think they are "real technical"-ha! not in my mind set where I don't see keyboards when I think "technical"...
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

mike_belben

$1000 blobs of glue is a good way to put it.  

I worked on heavy marine helicopter avionics gear from i guess 99 to 02 or so.  The stuff from the 60s we could literally smell and see the problem.  Tuning energized springs for frequency with little fiberglass sticks until it worked best at the spec frequency. 

  The stuff from the 90s we could all stand around and cuss the little green men.  All you could do was pop and swap known good cards until it ran up good on the test set then order a replacement. 


The computers on honda PGMFI cars were reverse engineered by an online nerd crowd in the early 2000s and made to do incredible, incredible things in OBD zero and OBD1 form.  By OBD2A and OBD2B era honda made sure to lock that up.  I still dont think its been cracked. 


The size reduction, sophistication, economies of off shore mass production and liability era have really made manufacturers turn to building product with a 'dont maintain it, replace it' user in mind.  This is at odds with us dinosaurs who cling to rebuilding our investments to retain our wealth in it.  Its why i dont even look at things made after about 2005. I am trying to stock up on the 1980s-2000s best technology and keep it going until im the one being replaced. 


Praise The Lord

donbj

Quote from: mike_belben on July 31, 2021, 01:10:11 PMI am trying to stock up on the 1980s-2000s best technology and keep it going until im the one being replaced.  

So...You're the guy/reason I am having problems finding parts for my old Huskies!
I may be skinny but I'm a Husky guy

Woodmizer LT40HDG24. John Deere 5300 4WD with Loader/Forks. Husky 262xp. Jonsered 2065, Husky 65, Husky 44, Husky 181XP, Husky 2100CD, Husky 185CD

sawguy21

old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Nebraska

Quote from: Southside on July 30, 2021, 09:28:05 PM


I kid you not that a customer who was a nurse was surprised to learn that cows had to give birth to produce milk.  ::)
I read that one out loud to my Veterinarian wife, she just about spit her drink laughing.   Houston we have problems..
I tore a small single cylinder horizontal  shift apart and put it back together  in 7th grade  shop class. I didn't have any clue in 1979 that I was fortunate  to have that experience...

donbj

As long as they stay south of the border I'll survive. Shipping is murder from across the border! :D
I may be skinny but I'm a Husky guy

Woodmizer LT40HDG24. John Deere 5300 4WD with Loader/Forks. Husky 262xp. Jonsered 2065, Husky 65, Husky 44, Husky 181XP, Husky 2100CD, Husky 185CD

HemlockKing

I left the trades simply because the pay wasn’t there. Bust your back all day making thousands for you boss on big machinery while you get 24$ a hr(in CAD MIND YOU). I can work my own jobs and make a bit less but be much happier, done with the carrot on the stick, rat race. You can’t live good off a lot of blue collar jobs like you could 40 years ago, the pay has hardly risen while the cost of everything has went up 10-fold.
Also millennials are 25-40, they aren’t the lazy kids everyone refers too(10 years ago yes), the new young gen is “gen z” and yes they are pretty useless when it comes to self repair despite YouTube and some great resources for knowledge(this forum for one)
A1

Spike60

There's also the problem of small engines in big shops. The strongest part of the industry are the larger John Deere or Kubota type dealerships; maybe Massey-Ferguson or some others. Often multi-location companies. Lotta employees, trucks on the road. They move a lot of iron. Or did until this year when they couldn't get procuct. These places are more like car dealerships in scope than small shops like mine. Generally seen to have more long term stability as they are easy to sell as ongoing businesses with staff in place.

That is why Stihl cut the deal with John Deere to be in those stores. It offered them a more stable dealer base that was less likely to lose stores due to closure or retirement.  Problem of course is that particularly on the saw side, is that the small stuff gets lost in the mix. Rarely do places like that have a good 2 stroke tech. And if he is any good, they'll move him into the more profitable side of the shop to work on stuff with $100,000 pricetags. Similar to many medium to larger mower shops, that arrangement generates so many of the "my dealer doesn't stock parts or know how to work on saws" complaints that often pop up on this page.

I get it. We can make as much on one Exmark as on a pallet of saws. But the thing that most shops don't get is that saws never go out of season, and the parts and accesories business far exceeds what you can do on mowers. Particularly on the homeowner side. And there's no pick up and delivery with saws either! :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

kantuckid

Stihl IMO did a serious deed when they allowed places like Rural King to take business from mom & pop Stihl dealerships that invested personal money & much effort into building their stores. This spring I was @ RK asking about the new Stihl MS261's in non Mo-tronic while waiting elsewhere a LONG! time to get my saw repaired. He said they had sold ~ 50 261's in non motronic. FWIW, RK has two FT Stihl mechanics at that store.
That's a bunch of saws in a small town location.
Maybe/probably the same thing happened via the JD thing too? Business is a cut throat landscape in many ways, small engines being only one. I'll add this, I do shop at Walmart and know that many of the various types of stores they supplanted did not keep up with the times.
Back home in Topeka, KS I'm remembering 1950's when Wild Willies was the very first discount department store to come to town. Lawrence had a Gibson's where a sleeping bag I bought was 1/2 the price of one closer to home. Then along came K-mart and shook it up again.
Before the above discounters I had to buy a fishing reel or equipment via mail order catalogs to get a decent price while local small stores charged "arm & a leg" price mark ups similar to jewelry stores as now.
Should I have taken from my paycheck to spend more and keep M&P's alive?
We are not allowed to go political here but I'll throw out to this topic that anyone can drive around and easily see a multitude of NOW HIRING! signs in ANY PLACE! It's not a secret and most of us know why. My shop needs a new roof and the roof metal mfg is local and has an easier time getting steel than workers. The ones they had won't come back for wages that surpass area factories. The M&P mower Stihl dealer that repaired my saw lost all their help-even the ones they spent money to get Stihl trained for the same reasons. It's a national sad joke that jobs go unfilled. These are not all fast food jobs either! 
Service departments must be suffering when new car dealers, ag equipment dealers can't get stock.
For the record: I loved working in skilled trades but left because I was faced with at least 7 years on the seniority list to sleep with my new wife. Other realities were not low pay at all but my body was paying a price too. I did not get CTS, etc., etc., from puters :D  

We talk out of both sides of our mouth when careers & pay scales come to mind. I made far, far more as a skilled trades person than I did as a school teacher, counselor (mandated by law maters degrees and more) and far more than as a HS principal with even more degrees and time away from my family. I did sleep nights with my family and had the privilege of more free time and to coach mine & others kids.  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

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