Small Scale Selective Cutting

[Bronco]

Howdy:

I've been lurking and reading up on old threads and didn't notice this issue coming up in the past. I've enjoyed reading about all of the creative methods and techniques you guys seem to come up with.

Anywho, I'm planning to cut and skid approximatly 100 mature (70' - 120') lodgepole pines this winter for a log house we plan to build.  I've already cut and used all the good house log trees around the perimeter of our woodlot for building our cabin so now I'm faced with the task of safely getting the other house logs on the ground in the midst of other large trees.  My questions is how should I attempt to prevent "hangers".  Obviously a good start is not to fell the tree into another tree.  I've thought about climbing the trees and rigging a rope to pull but, that's a lot of work.  Is it just one of those things you figure out as you go along?  

Any input is appreciated.  Thanks!

[Ed_K]

 I'm in the process of thinning a red pine stand. The trees are so close that cutting without hanging is imposible, so I'm winching them with the 4x4 mf and fransguard winch. I cut a road down the middle to work from, as there are roads on either side.
 Good Luck on the cabin, I've loved mine for 19 yrs.

[Woodhog]

I cut many my logs this way, usually there is no room between the trees to fall them to the ground...

I notch up from the root, I dont know the proper name for this,
I then fall the tree back on other trees and then try to cut it free of the stump without jamming the saw.

I then pull them down to the tractor with the winch, if you notch then downwards from the top they usually catch on the stump when you try to pull them away to fall them..

I also have to use a snatch block when things dont go right, which is quite often...in fact I couldnt get the job done without the snatch block.

You have to be carefull when cutting them free of the stump if they dont break the holding wood when they hang up.

I only fall one, then pull one, never more than one hung up at one time.

It is not the most safe way to cut wood so you have to be very careful.

[Ron Scott]

Some methods that may help your situation

Mark the trees prior to cutting.
Plan and mark falling lanes in advance of cutting.
Do row, strip, or patch thinning.
Machine harvest with a feller/buncher.

[Ed_K]

 Ron, I'd really like the small feller-buncher you showed on the timberharvest thread. But can't afford it. I'm doing row thinning with a road down the middle, have to fall everything to the middle, as theres roads on both sides, 400' apart.

[Ron Scott]

Ed,

It sounds like you have it planned out. You're bound to get "hang-ups" when hand cutting in a thick pine stand. They just need to be pulled down as you go. A push pole may help some if trees aren't too large.

[Ed_K]

 Been using the push pole, Sat I'm getting my machinest make a pulley to pull some down using cable on angles. None of the tree are more than 12". But they're heavy to move once they dig into the soft ground  ;D.
 Bronco, even tho I'm pulling the poles down with a 3 pt winch, I still directional fell using the same method of notch your wrote about, think its a humbolt ? Ron ? I also bore cut, a set wedges, just in case.

[rebocardo]

If there are no branches on the lower 30 feet or so, you can make a big loop with a cable and slide it up the tree with a 20-30 foot piece of PVC pipe. Pull the choker tight when it is as far up as possible.

Probably would not work with pine, but, what I do is throw a weight over a tall branch, tie the throw line to nylon line, pull the nylon through, which in turn pulls the cable through. Then throw the line over a branch on the other side. Pull the cable through and down,  make a loop with a clevis, pull it tight into a choker. Beats climbing a tree or using a ladder.

With a 2,000 pound winch and a winch line 20 feet up the tree, I have pulled a 18 sweetgum through a rotten pine it got hung up on. Took down the pine too!

Obviously, put the line up before you start sawing.

I would suggest using a strap or cable if you value the tree as a log since pulling down with cable, it usually eats a good 1-2 inches in beyond the bark on pine. It also wrecks the cable. So, I make a choker cable with plastic coated 1/4 line, removing the plastic where the clamps go.

[Buzz-sawyer]

rebo
you reminded me of a project I was on ....were I was designing a means to launch string to pull up a cable into trees....in researching it I ran into HAM radio guys who use spud gun launchers to put antenna wire over trees.I researched spud gun types and also air propeled types...very effectice and easy!

[Bronco]

Interesting advice.  I can see a push pole being handy.  I do ok with directional felling and sure like using wedges.  I have a 10,000lb winch on my truck, a snatch block and a bunch of extra cable that I only used once when cutting the house logs for the cabin as I was able to drive right up to most of the trees and skid them out with my pickup.  Sounds like I'll probably be using the winch and cable a little more on this job.

Thanks for your help.  Keep it coming.

[oakandigger]

I also will often push a rope as far up the trunk as possible, with a slip knot, then use it to coax the tree in the right direction.  But wedges work well too, it all depends.  What I have done when there was no way but to pull out the bottom, was to construct a thick skid-pad, maybe 3' square, and carefully cut the trunk near the bottom, but high enough and on an angle so the tree drops onto the skid.  Takes some practice, but then you can pull out the bottom without digging in.

[barbender]

a couple of things i found useful in a red pine thinning I cut for my house logs- first, a felling lever, breaking bar, whatever you want to call it. It's basically a pry bar with a wide flat on the end thats the same width as your saw kerf, so it can fit in your backcut and you can lift and pry the tree. the tool also has a cant hook on it so if you have a tree thats slightly hung up you can rock it with the cant and break it loose. Husqvarna sells them , they are made by fiskars.  Pretty handy on that 12"dbh size pine I was cutting. Second- I was finding that it was impossible to keep the trees from hanging in some areas, so I would just tip them into the adjacent trees and go get the machine to pull them down. The problem was that it is nearly impossible to cut loose your holding wood on a near vertical tree without getting the bar of your saw pinched, but I needed the tree completely cut free of the stump or my machine( Case 1845 skidsteer) wouldn't pull it loose. Even if I did rip it down, the tree ended up with some damage from stump pull.  So on trees I knew had a good chance of hanging up, I started cutting my notches differently.  On the directional cut, instead of having one level cut and one angled cut meet to remove a wedge of wood, I just make the angled cut(  from the trunk down towards the stump) and leave the level cut out, so there is no notch of wood removed. Then proceed with your felling cut as normal. As the tree begins to fall and hangs up, you can continue to cut your holding wood because the butt comes to bear on the wedge of wood you left on the front of the notch. When you finish cutting the holding wood, sometimes the butt will still drop on your bar and pinch it, but the butt wants to slide back off of the stump.  Then insert your felling lever ( see item 1) behind your bar and pry up, the tree will slide back and leave your sawbar on the stump.  Now you can winch it down, pull it down, whatever, plus the angled cut on the butt helps it to keep from digging into the ground. This is actually a lot simpler than I make it sound, I have a hard time explaining it in writing.  I think this type of notch is called a sloven, I saw it in a book- can't remember the name of it, Bailey's sells it, I think maybe it was called "The Good Woodcutters Guide". The author makes his living cutting wood off of his 400 acres, a large part of it red pine plantations so he has a lot of good tips on this kind of stuff. Sorry for the long post hope this can help you.