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Solar Farms ??

Started by Walnut Beast, September 04, 2021, 07:58:25 AM

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SwampDonkey

When that short term lease expires that operation will be abandoned. It's far cheaper to start anew than to clean up an old site. These people will get into a mess with lawsuits and the company gets out from under it with bankruptcy and carries on with the next scheme. The land will be devalued since no one wants to clean up the mess out of their own pockets. :D

And yes, on the wool. It costs a farmer more to sheer and clean wool than it is worth it for him/her. All the sheep farms here are for meat and tiny herds. Years ago the place was alive with sheep farms, 3 close to home. Briggs and Little Wool recycles wool, has for several years. My grandmother used to send them old worn out garments and blankets years ago. Their yarns are so cheap, they couldn't afford to pay a farmer a break even price. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Walnut Beast

Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 28, 2021, 04:10:48 AM
When that short term lease expires that operation will be abandoned. It's far cheaper to start anew than to clean up an old site. These people will get into a mess with lawsuits and the company gets out from under it with bankruptcy and carries on with the next scheme. The land will be devalued since no one wants to clean up the mess out of their own pockets. :D

And yes, on the wool. It costs a farmer more to sheer and clean wool than it is worth it for him/her. All the sheep farms here are for meat and tiny herds. Years ago the place was alive with sheep farms, 3 close to home. Briggs and Little Wool recycles wool, has for several years. My grandmother used to send them old worn out garments and blankets years ago. Their yarns are so cheap, they couldn't afford to pay a farmer a break even price. :D
That's interesting?? In my lease proposal they will disassemble everything and leave the land the way it was. And by the way this company has active solar farms in other states 

Walnut Beast

Quote from: Ianab on October 27, 2021, 04:37:26 AM
Here is a workable solution to the loss of farm land AND the cost of maintenance around the panels. Farm sheep.

The sheep don't bust things like cows, they don't chew everything like goats, and there is a good market for sheep meat and wool. The US imports about 50% of it's lamb / mutton from NZ / Aus. So there is existing local demand for the meat.

When it comes to solar farms, sheep are great groundskeepers | Ars Technica
I love wool. The characteristics of it are pretty amazing 

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Walnut Beast on October 28, 2021, 06:30:15 AMThat’s interesting?? In my lease proposal they will disassemble everything and leave the land the way it was. And by the way this company has active solar farms in other states
I wouldn't count on it. Having other farms spread across the country doesn't improve your chances. The term is too short to begin with, for them to be profitable.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Walnut Beast


Don P

A good sized hair sheep farm up the road just sold, to a cattle farmer who has been dabbling in heritage sheep at a flock of 50 scale. There is a fiber guild here of weavers, knitters, etc that has for years been trying to get a mini mill processing "plant" set up. I had a co-worker who would leave work and go shearing in the evenings, he had worked on larger ranches. There is enough work that 2 of them stay busy but all small operations, which would be larger than the size of grazing plot a solar array could occupy here. There are possible opportunities at the artisan level for wool... and this is all the same audience, solar, local artisan wool, marketing. I have never had any desire to work in commodities, stay small and keep it all.

Southside

A friends family has or at least had an old wool mill. Really neat and amazingly complex old equipment.  They made a tiny bit of artisan yarn but the vast majority of their production was tennis ball covering.

My understanding is the only guys making money in the lamb and mutton market are running flocks in with their cattle as you can run 1 sheep per cow and not reduce your cattle carrying capacity as the sheep eat what the cattle reject.
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SwampDonkey

Only one commercial woollen spun mill here in New Brunswick. Worst spun wool is a higher premium and stronger yarn. It's funny, because the term worst, can also mean the weight of the yarn as well. You know these things as an experienced weaver. :D

edit to add: Ed Worst was an author of weaving books 100 years ago. :D





Wool rug with wool from mentioned mill above. ;D





Another



"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Joe Hillmann

Wisconsin grows (or did grow) lots of ginseng.  For that they shade the entire field with some type of shade structure.  They aim for 75%-80% shade.  I would think solar panels would be able to be sized and laid out in a way that allows ginseng to be grown underneath them successfully.

I don't know why cows couldn't be pastured under them as well as long as they are high enough and the posts are strong enough to resist the cows rubbing on them.

There are all sorts of vegetables that don't do well in the heat of summer so are planted in the spring and again in the fall.  Maybe they could be grown under the panels in the shade.

It could work great in desert locations, the panels shade the ground to keep water from evaporating and keep the soil a bit cooler  and they can be used to collect and direct rain water to specific spots.

If the panels are spaced a bit farther apart a person could maybe make hay under them.  It wouldn't be bumper crops but if the other option is to mow it and let it rot, getting something of value out of it may not be the worst thing.

Larry

In the early days of cell service, I was involved in land procurement for cell towers.  They were all leased sites.  

The devil is in the details.  While some leases were very lucrative others not so.  Who pays the taxes?  Some fair way to renegotiate the lease should also be worked out.  Access road and gates.  Lots of things to think about.  I would contact an attorney that has experience writing leases on farm ground before signing anything.  
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

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Brad_S.

There is a solar farm across the street from me...I am happy to have it there! Unlike the neighbor up the street, there are no dogs barking constantly, no loud music at night, no light pollution blotting out the sky. They bought the land outright which is unusual. They asked for a 25 year permit and the town made them put $250,000 in escrow for removal at the end. The land was fallow clay, no real crop loss. Town made them agree to return it to its original state when done, including removing the very nice driveway they installed. Plenty of locals wanted to hop on the band wagon but there needs to be a sizable 3 phase power line nearby and our street well out in the country had it to feed a now defunct fur farm. The project has been sold 2 or 3 times now but the town does a good job keeping each new owner held to the contract.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Don P

I heard an interview with a farmer the other day who was planting under a solar farm. For the mostly greens crops he was growing he felt it was a benefit.

mike_belben

yeah brassicas could probably be grown in mid summer under a solar field. 
Praise The Lord

thecfarm

Those are a big deal in Maine now. Big one in Farmington Maine, about 20 minutes from me, 400 acres. Another big one I think in Pittsfield. One in Oxford that I have not seen yet.
The ones I have seen, on one side, you can't walk under it.
Than 2 more small ones about 10 minutes from me.
As Brad says, they make good neighbors.  ;)
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mike_belben

they make good revenue for the financiers too.  they just dont make much solar electricity in the glaciated north.
Praise The Lord

SwampDonkey

No solar farms in New Brunswick, but one being built for NB Power by The Smart Energy Company, down in Shediac. "The NOREASTER® is an all-inclusive solar energy solution 'designed specifically for harsh Canadian winters' in collaboration with the National Research Council." We'll see. Those carefully worded promises in small quotes sound familiar. :D  I remember some ocean based hydro power from a Florida company that was a scam not too long ago, 'designed specifically for Canadians'. ;D Opportunities NB funding it, not private money, but tax dollars 'meant to build global competitive companies in both product and service'. I can't breath. :D

A few businesses around that sell parts and equipment or do installs.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

kantuckid

In the county 35 miles west of me, Clark Co., KY/Winchester, KY on I-64 is the county seat, a solar panel company is leasing solar farm lands past year or so. It's very controversial and thus many yard signs by those who oppose it (so-called ugliness) in what's a Bluegrass horse farm area. I think they tie up the land for 35 years on the leases.
Our electric co-op has their own solar farm next to I-64. They've offered 35 year investment deals to members-which will not include me. 

We will soon be like Germany where others (taxpayers & corporations) pay for landowners to get solarized farms? 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

biggkidd

Quote from: Wudman on September 07, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on September 07, 2021, 12:15:47 AM
Quote from: Autocar on September 04, 2021, 06:29:52 PM
Just my two cents but it is a joke and ruins good farm ground. Just like the wind mills take the goverment out of the picture and they would fall on there face !
How is it a joke ? What ruins the farm ground? If it's leased for four years and you don't want to keep participating in the program they come in and disassemble everything, get it out and leave the land the way it was. If you wonder why farmers are participating in the programs is when your talking four figure per acre and the figures keep going up for extended years of participation. You can't make that farming. It's real and it's happening and it's no joke.
We have a handful of these small projects scattered across Virginia.  Northern North Carolina has a bunch of them.  Virginia was in an extremely wet period during construction of a number of these facilities.  Erosion was a major problem.  One project in particular has been cited numerous times by DEQ.  Every time it rained, VDOT would send the front end loader down to remove a foot of sand from the state highway.  That bunch fought to stabilize ground for over a year.  
My concern comes around these "industrial scale" projects.  My community is looking at projects in the 3000 - 6000 acre range.  One company is proposing to develop a 21,000 acre site in order to situate 6,000 acres of panels.  This is to be located in the river hills adjacent to the Roanoke River.  I'm not a fan of grubbing stumps across 6000 acres to sit a bunch of Chinese mirrors.  You will fight erosion issues for decades.  A lot of these lands optioned for these industrial scale projects will bring $7,000 to $8,000 per acre plus timber value.  That is a significant value to the landowner.  Of course, these costs will be transferred to the consumer.  Rural America is "subsidizing" Urban America's desire for "green energy".  I believe the support of "green energy" will wane when we start seeing 6,000 acre clearcuts.  At this point in time, the system still requires 100% backup for any solar project.  Those power plants have to be maintained as the sun doesn't always shine.  This will remain true until industrial scale batteries become a reality.  
Back to your initial observation......if you are considering enrolling your property, I would look closely at that contract.  I would certainly have a provision where the developer had to post a bond or escrow account for future site clean-up.  At some point, the equipment is obsolete.  You don't want to be stuck holding the bag to clean up a hazardous waste dump when the contract holder files bankruptcy and walks away.  With the up-front costs to the developer, I find it hard to believe that they would provide an "out" 4 years into a project.  Be careful.  


Wudman
Hello Neighbor
We are a little south of you around the county courthouse. Been living here 14 years and before buying the property I spent a few years trying to make sure this area would NEVER be developed. Well you guessed it now they want to put a big solar farm around us on three sides. Of course they tried to get me to sign their lease or buy option a few years ago but I turned them down even though they made a good offer. But this is our home and homestead I have put the last 14 years of my life in to making this in to the place I want. Not to mention I like living 2 miles from anyone else. If they come back and offer enough (at least double the last offer) I will sell but then not at some unspecified time within 5 years like they originally offered. IF and that's a big if I were to sell then it will have to be to move up not sideways or back. There's no way I can or want to start from scratch again at this point in life.
 The only upside I can see if they do build all around us is that we would have 8 foot fencing on three sides someone else got to pay for. 
 My main worry about living here after they build is "what if" living in that kind of electrical production causes my kids or grand kids some kind of health issues. 
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Walnut Beast

It's pretty much a go here and there is no problem with finding property owners I'm eight miles out in the country at the end of the project and they have several thousand acres signed up ready to go. Many acreage owners in subdivisions are not happy. It's easy to say no when you look from a subdivision but if you are a farmer and own the land around it and you can lease for 1,200 acre with a scale that goes up or the land purchase option for 12 k acre. As it stands when they have a buyer for power it will move forward. 

Walnut Beast

I was informed they have no intentions of taking or having anybody take  existing stands of trees out and they have many environmental guide lines the must follow 

SwampDonkey

With enough money in hand, anything will work. ;D Now what happens in 20 years when it starts to fail, they go bankrupt, and all the hardware strung across the land. You can't make a bankrupt company do a darn thing. Your taxes will be going up to pay for clean up. In fact they are anyway, for such tasks that are eventual. The company will be getting tax reductions, you can count on it. Same old shell game, over and over. ;)

We have a utility here that is a crown corporation (government). Recently, just before the pandemic, a line was completed into Maine. My taxes paid for it and are paying for the upkeep for someone else's benefit on the other end. Plus they have a lower $$rate. The government will push any darn thing whether it's profitable or even to your benefit at all. Just like the US Patent office, they'll issue a patent for anything, even a method of making toast.  :D


  • Bread refreshing method
    Patent number: 6080436
    Abstract: A method of refreshening a bread product by heating the bread product to a temperature between 2500.degree. F. and 4500.degree. F. The bread products are maintained at this temperature range for a period of 3 to 90 seconds.
    Type: Grant
    Filed: June 14, 1999
    Date of Patent: June 27, 2000
    Inventor: Terrance F. Lenahan

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

biggkidd

Quote from: Walnut Beast on January 05, 2022, 01:17:05 AM
I was informed they have no intentions of taking or having anybody take  existing stands of trees out and they have many environmental guide lines the must follow
The one that's supposed to go around us would have to take out trees. This is timber country, pine to be exact and nearly every acre around here but the really small plots are in planted pines. Everyone says this ground won't grow anything but trees as it was farmed out years ago and reverted to tree farming. We are inside one of the small patches of hardwoods left in the area. Mostly it's low grounds in the area that still have hardwoods because they aren't allowed to timber near the waterways. Along the creeks and rivers pretty much are all hardwoods grown within the last 70 or so years after this practice started.
Echo 330 T, Echo 510, Stihl Farm Boss, Dolmar 7900, Jinma 354 W/ FEL, & TPH Backhoe, 1969 M35A2,  1970 Cat D4
Building a Band Mill  :)

nativewolf

Quote from: Walnut Beast on January 05, 2022, 01:07:30 AM
It's pretty much a go here and there is no problem with finding property owners I'm eight miles out in the country at the end of the project and they have several thousand acres signed up ready to go. Many acreage owners in subdivisions are not happy. It's easy to say no when you look from a subdivision but if you are a farmer and own the land around it and you can lease for 1,200 acre with a scale that goes up or the land purchase option for 12 k acre. As it stands when they have a buyer for power it will move forward.
Congrats.  It's an amazing opportunity for farmers to make some profits.  All the plans I've seen keep well out of SMZs but here they will take out non native forests, pine plantations.
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: biggkidd on January 05, 2022, 09:01:35 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on January 05, 2022, 01:17:05 AM
I was informed they have no intentions of taking or having anybody take  existing stands of trees out and they have many environmental guide lines the must follow
The one that's supposed to go around us would have to take out trees. This is timber country, pine to be exact and nearly every acre around here but the really small plots are in planted pines. Everyone says this ground won't grow anything but trees as it was farmed out years ago and reverted to tree farming. We are inside one of the small patches of hardwoods left in the area. Mostly it's low grounds in the area that still have hardwoods because they aren't allowed to timber near the waterways. Along the creeks and rivers pretty much are all hardwoods grown within the last 70 or so years after this practice started.
Yep poor soils, eroded for years, bought up on the cheap in the depression or shortly thereafter.  Planted in pine and recut every 25 years like corn.  They'll cut the pine and put the solar there and leave the hardwoods close to the streams as stream side management zones.  Will be a different look.  Southside hates them, I like them ( I don't much care for pine plantations or degraded grazing land).  
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 05, 2022, 04:45:03 AM
With enough money in hand, anything will work. ;D Now what happens in 20 years when it starts to fail, they go bankrupt, and all the hardware strung across the land. You can't make a bankrupt company do a darn thing. Your taxes will be going up to pay for clean up. In fact they are anyway, for such tasks that are eventual. The company will be getting tax reductions, you can count on it. Same old shell game, over and over. ;)

We have a utility here that is a crown corporation (government). Recently, just before the pandemic, a line was completed into Maine. My taxes paid for it and are paying for the upkeep for someone else's benefit on the other end. Plus they have a lower $$rate. The government will push any darn thing whether it's profitable or even to your benefit at all. Just like the US Patent office, they'll issue a patent for anything, even a method of making toast.  :D


  • Bread refreshing method
    Patent number: 6080436
    Abstract: A method of refreshening a bread product by heating the bread product to a temperature between 2500.degree. F. and 4500.degree. F. The bread products are maintained at this temperature range for a period of 3 to 90 seconds.
    Type: Grant
    Filed: June 14, 1999
    Date of Patent: June 27, 2000
    Inventor: Terrance F. Lenahan
Not speaking for Walnut Beast but he's had his lawyers on this.  He's got the lease or sale option and he does not appear to be a fool.  If sale he'll make quite a bit more than the developers pay.  If lease they are bonded on the cleanup.  It's not as big a cleanup deal as you are making it out to be.  Also, the new panels are likely to be making power for 40 years if someone doesn't come and replace them all anyway as efficiencies get almost 1% better a year.  
Liking Walnut

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