Happen to come across a pettibone 501 mountain goat addition forwarder and was wondering if any one knows anything about them? Good? Bad?
My skidder is the 501 mountain goat, I've only seen one set up as a forwarder on toutube. I don't know what loader they had, most older forwarders had aftermarket loaders, i.e. hood, barko, etc. I know in the video the operator had to get up out of the seat and run the loader from a platform of to the side. Looked kind of hokey, but probably pretty advanced for the time ::)
Yes barbender I thaught the two looked simaliar. ;) I did happen to see the video on youtube that one looked wore out! :D I'm not sure either on the loader could be a pettibone design? For me I kind of like the design of having to stand up I would think visability would be better as thier would be nothing in the way of your view. And it would beat having to set chockers! Any way I found a nice one in main and looks to be in real good shape and it also has a winch on the front of it besides the blade. Kind of makes it a all in one machine. :)
With out a CTL machine the forwarder would be 10 steps backwards.
The cable skidder is 10 times faster on your logging program, or are you going to start piling wood by hand.
The first thing with your cable skidder is get rid of the chocker chains. There 5 times harder to work with the cable chockers.
Your rigging is way to heavy, most of the time i ran 9/16 mainline with 1/2" chockers. If i got in plantation wood or firewood i put a 1/2" mainline with 7/16 th chockers. I wouldn't use the rigging you have, way to much work dragging that heavy line around. Hook-en chain is 5 times slower then cable an way to heavy.
Just my thoughts, with out a CTL machine, there well be a lot of heavy ground hand work, thats what i see with a forwarder. >:(
I know of a few small time guys hand cutting with a small forwarder. I think they all have winches mounted in the front of the bunk so they can winch trees around if need be. The jobs they cut look good as there is very little wood in contact with the ground. They are also able to stack wood on the landing in nice piles that make truckers happy, something guys with just a skidder aren't able to do. Someday if I ever run across a small single bunk forwarder in my price range I would snatch it UP as I have a few smaller jobs that instead of sending out for bids I could do the work myself.
The truckers loved my piles, all even, 4 to 8 feet high, with no end pieces mixed in. I sorted logs and saw bolts, they saved my wood for the night shift to haul
If your cutting all log timber its the only way to go. It would be slow going in pulpwood and firewood, better have a good pickaroon and a good back.
I worked with a Hillcity dray and a cat about 8 yrs, same thing as a forwarder. So i know all about cutting short wood in the woods and the work it in evolves.
This was the hole purpose of the skidder, to get away from all the hand work.
Now hows this going to be done? I would like to read the game plan on how this is going to be productive with two guys working this forwarder. :P
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/DSCF0123.JPG)
that one no.something a little more moden yes. there was a iron mule on uncle henrys online in maine. looked pretty good from the pics
A 4 foot tall pile of logs on the landing here is a truckers worst nightmare. When your loading 21+ cord on a truck you want piles 10,15, or even 20 feet tall on both sides of the truck so that you can load up without climbing down and moving 15 times to get a full load.
They haul 10 to 12 cords here, loading tree length they don't have to move to get a load.
Loading 100" , some times they could get a full load with out moving, usually had to move one time.
I trucked for 3 yrs, i didn't have a issue with loading wood behind a pole skidder.
80% of the wood here is 100" and there is no way the loader can reach enough from 4' tall piles to fill a 21+ cord load without multiple moves. Often times if I have a small job running with just a skidder I have a hard time finding a trucker that wants to come and haul off the job, they would rather haul off a forwarder or slasher job with tall piles that they can load up in a fraction of the time and be on down the road.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18040/piles.JPG)
We always called the hand bucked 100" "farmer piles" , some operators put it up good enough that you could get a full load without moving, but it still wasn't as fast as loading out of a good forwarder or slasher pile. On the other hand, I'va hauled out of piles put up by a slasher, 20' tall and they fall over when you start loading >:( Back to the original post, I think hand falling with a forwarder moving the wood would be the way to go for low impact TSI. In the Logging methods and equipment thread, there are a lot of pics showing that set-up. Mostly running in big hardwood, it would be a pokey method in smaller wood.
Quote from: snowstorm on June 15, 2012, 02:55:30 PM
that one no.something a little more moden yes. there was a iron mule on uncle henrys online in maine. looked pretty good from the pics
for you garret skidder fans there is alsoa garret
I was mostly considering it as an addition to what I have. I do mostly selective cuts and thought it wood come in handy for many reasons. More of just something to help on long skids and pile up wood on landings, hold logs in air for firewood cutting loading trailers that sort of thing. Remember I am not a high production out fit. As far as CTL thats why I have other guys that work for me. :D
Once you have a forwarder on the job your cable machine will see much more idle time ;) :)
I would have to agree with that. ;)
I don't see how an Iron Mule is more modern than this Pettibone.
I don't think a mule would be more modern. I think the log bed is longer on the bone to.
I could put 10 to 20 cords a day on the landing by myself with a pole skidder. Theres no way i could do that with a forwarder.
Seams like your stepping back in time, i worked with a knuckle boom dray 50 yrs ago.
You were also working clear cuts. And every clear cut I've seen now is a buncher and a large grapple skidder or skidders putting out many times more wood in a day than you could dream with a saw and skidder.
But around "here" there are very few clear cuts unless your in aspen or pine/spruce. Almost all of the hardwood sales (large majority of what is harvested here) are thinnings where a forwarder will get the job done. It is easy on the ground, good on the landing, keeps the veneer logs clean, etc.
Skidders for the most part have gone the way of the dinosaur up here. I don't know of any mill left buying tree length wood and most don't want to deal with all the dirt, rocks, mud, etc that comes with skidded wood. You can't properly sort and seperate all the necessary products with a skidder either; forwarders give you the ability to sort for maximum revenue and you don't need anywhere near the landing area you do for a skidder.
Try sorting potential veneer, sawlogs, pallet stock & firewood with a skidder and putting it in piles for a truck ... now do the same thing with a forwarder and you will see why there are so many of them in the woods today. And you can't compare a knuckleboom dray from 50 years ago to a forwarder. It's like comparing an old Model T to a 600hp modern tractor trailer ... not even in the same league.
Well said jamie_c I totally agree with you. I don't see why a couple of young guys with saws and this forwarder can't be productive as long as thier is a good game plan. I like the fact that you can drive right next to the bucked logs pick them up and move to the next logs with out having to get on and off the machine to set chokers. Plus the landing could be smaller and on house lots it could also be used to feed brush into a chipper and load logs into a dump truck or my equipment trailer. I can think of many uses for this machine. Alot of guys around here us them with hand cutting and do pretty good. I'm going to plan a trip to go check it out soon once the tire situation is set with my skidder. I also like the fact that it has a winch on the front very handy for getting un-stuck or winching logs closer. Not as fast as a new one but it could work very well in my case.
Our knuckleboom dray had tires on it with a cat pulling it, it would hold up two cords a turn. Same thing as a forwarder, not as fast going down the road. Besides you can on hook the cat and build road, so many more uses then just for skidding. I don't know where you come up with a Model T to a 600 hp tractor, its a knuckleboom loader, worked the same back then as it does to day. In selective cutting the cat and dray are narrower, get around in the timber better then a forwarder.
I was thinning pine in the Chippewa National Forest when i was 12 years. Over the years 75% my jobs were thinning jobs, i was known to be one of the best.
I owned a feller buncher, ran two skidders with it. I feel like you guys don't think i've done any of this. I've tried the big time logging, i could cut 4 times the timber, at the end of the day i didn't make anymore money. After paying fuel, men, machine payments, insurance, ect, takes all the fun out of logging.
TRY, I've did all the sorting with a pole skidder, the whole thing is method, i basically did it in the woods when hooking, its all how you do it like anything.
When using a forwarder with out a CTL machine your going back to strip cutting by hand, same thing we did 50 yrs ago. When i was cutting selective Jack and Norway i had 3 guys working with me, 1 on the measure stick, 1 limbing, 1 piling, i tried to cut a 1000 pieces a day. Theres not many guys could do this, again its all method. In Aspen clear cut i could cut and pile 10 cords alone, a day, i got $5.00 a cord. [1968]
I've been in this business stating with a horse to a joystick, i've seen a lot of change. In the 60's and 70's we made money, 1980 was the end of it, the bottom dropped out of logging. From 1980 to 1996 when we quit logging it was a fight for every dollar, it got so we hated it.
logman81 i've worked like your talking about many yrs bucking up it the woods. Its not going to work as good as you think, i promise you that. I see a lot of back breaking work to put 10 cords a day out.
That 501 'bone looks like it is outfitted with an older prentice loader. Good solid looking machine, if the price is right, I don't know how you could go wrong. Barring the need to overhaul everything, but from what it looks in the pic, it seems that it has potential.
Good luck Logman81, once you start playing with the forwarder, the cable skidder will get a lot more rest.
that bone may look sweet but i am not giving up my heat ac and radio. logman did you look at the ad uncle henrys .com of the mule? i see the price droped. its about an hr from me
Most operations in hardwood thinnings around here have a forwarder and a cable machine. The ONLY thing the cable machine does is pull wood off slopes that the forwarder can't operate on. We routinely put out twelve to eighteen cords in selective hardwood cuts some days more depending on the timber. That's with a guy hand falling and CTLing at the stump and an operator on the forwarder. We don't short stack anything by hand. I'd rather re-pin and bush my loader than wear out a guys back. A good loader operator can short stack his own wood with the machine just about as fast as a man with a pick. Most selective hardwood sales around here specify that everything must be processed to length at the stump and nothing longer than 17' can be skidded to minimize damage to the residual timber.
Well I'm atleast going to take a look at it on my way up to my camp in madawaska maine in a few weeks. Yes I did see both mules they are priced considerably more than the pettibone. :o The price seems pretty fair if all works like it should. Will also have to consider trucking to here as well.
It didn't take me long to learn to sort with the skidder,what get me is out of 5 bid sheets 4 say forwarder only.they just don't want logs dragging thru the woods now.
This is why I'm looking into it.
Quote from: Ed_K on June 18, 2012, 07:04:58 PMwhat get me is out of 5 bid sheets 4 say forwarder only.they just don't want logs dragging thru the woods now.
As a buyer of logs and veneer I HATE buying wood that has been skidded unless its a winter job. Sawlogs it isn't sooo bad but for veneer its very crucial that I can see the entire butt of the log (not caked in dirt from skidding), and I also like to be able to see all the crevasses, cracks, bumps, bruises, etc in the bark (which is hard if its been dragged through the dirt). One missed defect can turn a veneer log (sometimes a couple bucks a bdft) into a sawlog (often less than .75 cents a bdft).
it is different. a few things 90degree corners no trees barked up the grass or regen is still in the center of the trails. no pulling winch cable no winich cable. no brush trying to hit you side the head. no more being cold or hot. no flys
I agree with everything except the brush part and being hot or cold with this old bone unless you built a inclosed cab for it. ;)
When ii first bought the pole skidder, i short skidded timber, like a 100 yards or so and sawed it up for the dray to pickup. I had piles all over in the woods, we quit doing this because we were handling the wood one to many times. Then the dray was used to sort wood an load trucks on the landing. The dray an cat never went back in the woods again. [1969]
I selective cut timber 20 years with a pole skidder never had a complaint from, Feds, State or private on skinning up other trees. If you did skin up trees on Federal timber the fine could be up to $5000., triple stumpage and black balled from buying stumpage.
It would be nice if you could find a Dray to hook behind your skidder then you have the best of both worlds. I found this old posting on the forum, heres the pic.
If i bought the Bone Forwarder i would build a arch that i could take off an on to go with the winch. Then it could be used like a skidder for short pulling wood to be bucked up, this would be a big plus.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/vintage_machine_1989_tree_farmer.jpg)
Lumberjack, I don't think these guys doubt the logging you did, I know I don't. One thing that is different is the forest types, most of these guys are in areas of predominantly big hardwood like we don't see much around here. I see where you are coming from, around here if you are using the forwarder with hand felling on most sales you would be screwing around. However, I get into an occasional land clearing type job where you barely have room to get your skids dragging behind you, a forwarder would work way better there. Corley is getting 12-18 cords a day with 2 guys in hardwood thins, I think that is pretty good production.
Logman-if that is the pettibone for sale up at Poulin Tractor, a buddy of mine called and think it's sold.
Yes it is that one. Not sure if it is sold
Quote from: logman81 on June 18, 2012, 06:22:06 PM
Well I'm atleast going to take a look at it on my way up to my camp in madawaska maine in a few weeks. Yes I did see both mules they are priced considerably more than the pettibone. :o The price seems pretty fair if all works like it should. Will also have to consider trucking to here as well.
I do believe you get what you pay for when buying used equipment. :)
This is true in some casses. I did very good on my purchase of my cable skidder that I paid very little for.
For a while you were wondering though ;)
Yes I was. :D But come to fine out things arn't as bad as I thought, the center pins are fine the play is coming from the radial bearings where it pivots on the rear of the machine. Some sort of hard bearing plastic or something like that that is worn out.
Quote from: jd540b on June 19, 2012, 03:53:19 PM
Logman-if that is the pettibone for sale up at Poulin Tractor, a buddy of mine called and think it's sold.
i went by there 4 or 5 weeks ago didnt see it. it dosent say sold on his wed site. i bought a new thumb for my excavator from him several yrs ago. has stood up real well.
I don't think it's sold?