Don't grease that fitting

pnyberg · July 12, 2011, 08:51:32 PM

A while back Marty Parsons suggested that putting your every day grease gun on the fitting on the WM debarker pin might not be the way to go. The grease is way too stiff, and it's hard to keep the arm rotating freely. Since I'd been having a problem with this, I took his advice to heart, and cleaned as much grease as I could out of the assembly, and sprayed in a bunch of Gunk, and the arm seemed to work better.

Then I started to have a problem with the pivot of my command control station. It was getting to the point where I had to really lean into it to get it to move. More hits from my grease gun did not help. It occurred to me that maybe the grease was the problem, not the solution.

There's a gizmo that's been talked about here on the forum before that's meant to force light weight oil into a regular grease fitting. The intent is to loosen up the fitting so that it will take grease again, but that wasn't what I had in mind. I filled the gizmo with ATF, and tapped it into the fittings on the control station pivot pin. There was some improvement right away, but after a week, the difference is just astounding. I can now move the control station on its pivot with little more than a finger.

--Peter

MartyParsons · July 12, 2011, 09:00:23 PM

You might try some low temp grease. I keep a gun filled with the White stuff when I get an area that may not need the Hi Temp grease. The tube says Artic Cat on it for Snowmobiles but I am sure it would work in some areas in the summer. I would not put it on a hi load area.
Do you have two grease fittings on the comand control assembly? The new mills have two. One is at the top of the female part above the lock pin the other is below the lock pin. When I get an older command mill with a tight pivot I drill and tap a new fitting in this area.
Marty
Yea I know you want a picture.

pnyberg · July 12, 2011, 09:09:03 PM

I've got two fittings on the command station pivot, so I don't need a picture.

This is definitely something I'd only do on low-load joints. Anything involving hydraulics will continue to get the recommended grease.

--Peter

Dave Shepard · July 12, 2011, 09:17:43 PM

ATF is great stuff. I put some on the pivots for the little blade door on the Super this morning. Moves much easier now. ;D

Jeff · July 12, 2011, 09:49:20 PM

Id use rustreaper. ;D Its a great lubricant, and smells a lot better then ATF

LOGDOG · July 12, 2011, 10:23:21 PM

You know ...I was just wondering about Rust Reaper today. Where can I get some? I remembered there's a connection here on the Forum but couldn't recall where or who it was.

Edit .... I found it. I knew it was going to be some place obvious that I've looked at literally thousands of times. :-[

CalebL · July 13, 2011, 09:35:19 AM

I seem to be having the same problem with my debarker. I can move the debarker away from the log no problem but it doesn't want to move toward the log or stay on the log. I thought it was the spring that puts pressure and swings the debarker but it isn't very easy to swing back and forth by hand.

Bro. Noble · July 13, 2011, 10:12:47 AM

The lever that shifts the blades on our scragg mill used to be hard to move---------before we filled a greasegun with STP to grease the shaft that the blades slide on. ;)

Magicman · July 13, 2011, 01:40:46 PM

Quote from: CalebL on July 13, 2011, 09:35:19 AM
I seem to be having the same problem with my debarker. I can move the debarker away from the log no problem but it doesn't want to move toward the log or stay on the log. I thought it was the spring that puts pressure and swings the debarker but it isn't very easy to swing back and forth by hand.

CalebL, you will find that the weight of the DeBarker and the spring combine to do the work. If your sawmill is not "loader side" high, then you loose this advantage. Without this weight, you actually may not be able to engage the log with the DeBarker blade.

When greasing the DeBarker pivot, be sure to manually move it in and out as you apply grease. This will work it into the pivot really well, and use the grease recommended above.

CalebL · July 13, 2011, 02:29:24 PM

Quote from: Magicman on July 13, 2011, 01:40:46 PM
Quote from: CalebL on July 13, 2011, 09:35:19 AM
I seem to be having the same problem with my debarker. I can move the debarker away from the log no problem but it doesn't want to move toward the log or stay on the log. I thought it was the spring that puts pressure and swings the debarker but it isn't very easy to swing back and forth by hand.

CalebL, you will find that the weight of the DeBarker and the spring combine to do the work. If your sawmill is not "loader side" high, then you loose this advantage. Without this weight, you actually may not be able to engage the log with the DeBarker blade.

When greasing the DeBarker pivot, be sure to manually move it in and out as you apply grease. This will work it into the pivot really well, and use the grease recommended above.

Sorry, I have only had my mill less than a month. What do you mean "loader side" high?

Magicman · July 13, 2011, 06:16:41 PM

OK, let me back up and ask an obvious question. What kind of sawmill do you have?

On my Woodmizer (WM) the loader side is the side that the logs load on. When "leveling" the sawmill at a job site, I always keep the loader side a bit higher so that the logs will favor the side support (log stop) side. This keeps them from wanting to roll back onto the log loader and also lets the weight of the DeBarker help the spring to force the DeBarker blade into the log.

Keep the questions coming because that is how you learn. Remember, the only dumb question is an unasked question.

terrifictimbersllc · July 13, 2011, 06:33:03 PM

It is easy to foul the debarker pivot with too much grease or grease and dirt to the point where it doesn't want to move in freely under the force of the spring and the pulley mechanism. No doubt having the sawmill tilted a little makes a difference. Once after buying a new spring and belt and not having it fix the problem, I called WM and asked. Bottom line was I lifted the debarker and this pin out of the housing, cleaned it all out and put in a little grease. Very big difference.

Bandmill Bandit · July 13, 2011, 09:00:53 PM

regular grease serves a purpose but i find on my mil that using a very high grade silicon based grease to be the most effective grease for the mill the stuff I use is a Product called Arctic Winter EP0 sold by Boss Lubricants (http://www.bosslubricants.com/products.html) here in Canada and is used primarily in the aviation industry and oil industies. It was 16 bucks a tube (last 3 tubes I bought 4 years ago) but it is worth every cent. I NEVER grease til the grease shows with this product only till I hear the "air creak" and I only grease about every 40 to 50 mill hours with the exception of the loader arms when I am using them. The water/ moisture repellent and temperature properties of this grease(developed to meet requirements at the south pole research station) are extreme and it is even a pain to get it off with varsol when you do want it off. UNDER greasing as compared to what most feel is normal grease requirement is paramount to realizing the full benefit of the product. Over greasing will only exacerbate the problem. EVERYTHING, and I mean every thing sticks to this stuff so you dont ever want the grease exposed to the elements. one tube lasts a long time. The one currently in my mill dedicated grease gun is 3 years old and about half empty.

As far as I am concerned at present you couldn't pay me to take a carton of an inferior grease product at any price with out first proving to me that it will do what the grease I am using does. They do have a very similar product for high temp apps as well. Extreme quality grease products are well worth the extra $$$.

Brucer · July 14, 2011, 01:02:48 AM

Quote from: Magicman on July 13, 2011, 01:40:46 PM
Without this weight, you actually may not be able to engage the log with the DeBarker blade.

That sounds to me like a loose belt on the debarker.

Magicman · July 14, 2011, 07:18:31 AM

I was really trying to emphasize that the DeBarker weight needs to be used to your advantage and help rather than hinder the debarking action.

Tom L · July 14, 2011, 07:39:43 AM

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on July 13, 2011, 09:00:53 PM
regular grease serves a purpose but i find on my mil that using a very high grade silicon based grease to be the most effective grease for the mill the stuff I use is a Product called Arctic Winter EP0 sold by Boss Lubricants (http://www.bosslubricants.com/products.html) here in Canada and is used primarily in the aviation industry and oil industies. It was 16 bucks a tube (last 3 tubes I bought 4 years ago) but it is worth every cent. I NEVER grease til the grease shows with this product only till I hear the "air creak" and I only grease about every 40 to 50 mill hours with the exception of the loader arms when I am using them. The water/ moisture repellent and temperature properties of this grease(developed to meet requirements at the south pole research station) are extreme and it is even a pain to get it off with varsol when you do want it off. UNDER greasing as compared to what most feel is normal grease requirement is paramount to realizing the full benefit of the product. Over greasing will only exacerbate the problem. EVERYTHING, and I mean every thing sticks to this stuff so you dont ever want the grease exposed to the elements. one tube lasts a long time. The one currently in my mill dedicated grease gun is 3 years old and about half empty.

As far as I am concerned at present you couldn't pay me to take a carton of an inferior grease product at any price with out first proving to me that it will do what the grease I am using does. They do have a very similar product for high temp apps as well. Extreme quality grease products are well worth the extra $$$.

I definitely agree with you on this one, a cheap white lithium grease will turn into an almost solid chalky type putty if left inside a machine housing for too long
I made the mistake of using this on some punch presses here at work. and when the slide housing were taken apart for maintenance I had to spend a lot of time getting this old crud out. I switched over to a better quality blue color grease and have not had any problems since

I have an older punch that a past owner had placed a system type oiler on. it has a main canister with a hand actuated pump on top. all of the bearings and moving parts are tied into this pump with 1/8" diameter copper tubing. one pump of the handle at the start of work and all of the bearings and slides get lubricated in one shot.
this serves as a great way to lubricate with regular oil. and helps to wash away dirt and debris
over the course of time

Magicman · July 14, 2011, 07:55:15 AM

Here is a picture of the tool that pnyberg referred to in the OP.

Also a link to it's use. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,44419.0.html

CalebL · July 14, 2011, 03:49:24 PM

Quote from: Magicman on July 13, 2011, 06:16:41 PM
OK, let me back up and ask an obvious question. What kind of sawmill do you have?

On my Woodmizer (WM) the loader side is the side that the logs load on. When "leveling" the sawmill at a job site, I always keep the loader side a bit higher so that the logs will favor the side support (log stop) side. This keeps them from wanting to roll back onto the log loader and also lets the weight of the DeBarker help the spring to force the DeBarker blade into the log.

Keep the questions coming because that is how you learn. Remember, the only dumb question is an unasked question.

I have a Woodmizer LT40HDD34. I bought it used with 475 hours on it.

I understand what you were saying now and I am going to try to clean the grease cert out and see what that does to free up the shaft. I also think I could use a new spring.

Magicman · July 14, 2011, 04:28:02 PM

I seriously doubt that you need a new spring. Your problem is probably hardened grease. I have freed mine up by engaging it fully and as grease pressure is applied, manually operate the DeBarker assembly in and out. You may have to actually remove the assemble to remove hardened grease.

In the future use only one of the grease products recommended above.

Joe W · July 14, 2011, 07:55:10 PM

I have been having the same problem with my mill.I have a 1998 LT40 Super.I'm gonna pull the pin and clean the old grease of and switch to lubing it with ATF.I hope this will help it work the way it should.I bought the mill used and the debarker has never worked the way it should.Even after getting a new spring from Woodmizer.....Joe

Magicman · July 14, 2011, 08:02:52 PM

Personally, I use the black molylube. It does not harden.

Bandmill Bandit · July 14, 2011, 08:31:39 PM

the moly based grease is a good grease for the mill application. ATF is NOT.

ATF is a very unique mix of petroleum products that is designed in increase the griping power of the fibre disks to the steal plates inside the shift drum of an automatic transmission while also transferring heat away from the shift drum. As the pressure and temperature increase the ATF properties improve for what it is designed but that is NOT lubrication.

barbender · July 15, 2011, 10:38:57 AM

I had the same problem with my debarker- I had to disassemble the whole thing and clean of the pivot points. The previous owner had used white lithium grease all over this mill, I would like to slap him I think :

. It gummed everything up, I clean it off with ether and only lube these low load points with wd40 or pb blaster. I had been using moly grease on the heavy load points that actually need grease, but I kept getting "dry" pockets in the grease that would plug my grease gun. Now I am using some blue synthetic stuff, it seems to work good.

Don_Papenburg · July 16, 2011, 09:04:35 PM

Anouther good grease that I use as a sub for gear oil in boxes that have leak problems or spots that do not need stiff grease is the JD corn head grease. It is very soft flowable grease with HP qualities. Corn head gearboxes take a lot of abuse in HP situations .