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Directional Felling Techniques for Narrow Tall Leaning Fence Line Trees

Started by YellowHammer, December 16, 2022, 08:24:09 AM

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YellowHammer

I'm clearing some fence lines and coming up against lots of tall, skinny trees that have been getting sun over the exposed line, so are leaning toward the fence and also are limb heavy to that side, some actually bowed over the fence.  Many are 12" diameter or less, but tall, maybe 40 and 50 feet, and all want to fall on my fence.  I'm decent with wedges on bigger trees, but it seems the narrower the tree, the more difficult it is because there isn't much room to work in the kerf and the wedges just don't fit in the narrow tree.

I'm trying to get them to fall into the woods, and I don't have lots of room to get equipment between the barb wire fence line and the trees to get leverage to push to push them over.

So I've tried roping, and come alongs which is incredibly slow, I've tried doing back cuts with wedges, then doing the face cut, and I've tried the 1/4 wedge technique.  With all the experience out here, which technique, or tool, would you recommend or suggest that would work better?

I don't have a felling bar, but thinking of getting one, I guess, if it would work, but I'm not sure it would work on skinny trees this tall anyway.



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YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Woodfarmer

Probably a small winch. Either capstan or lewis(which is what I have). No matter how you slice it, small trees are a pita.

Firewoodjoe

Come along. Hand type winch. I'd hook three or 4 together and hook all those to one main line. Not sure if it would speed it up or not. Could you just cut them off high so the fall over the fence. Then cut the tall stump off. Good luck. Be careful. Stupid little trees get me in more trouble than the big ones. 

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Nealm66

I run into that all the time. Just make your back cut first. 2-3 diameter with the proper aim. Then pull your bar out, smack your wedge or wedges in enough to hold it good, then make your face with the same aim. Basically the same as jacking a tree but using wedges to lift. Hope this helps you out 

Nealm66

Looking at the picture, my method will probably fail. They need to be pulled or pushed to get through those limbs

Oliver05262

How much fence line? Does the fence need upgrading or repair anyway? It might be quicker and easier to take up the fencing and posts and then just drop the trees where they want to go and then put the fence back up on a clear path. 
  I have the same issue here except no animals. What fence is left is on my side of the stone wall. The center of the wall is the property line, and the field is grown in with many years of not mowing all the way to the wall. The longest windrow is the outside one (also the hardest one to dry). Might gain quite a few bales of hay if I got to clearing the overgrowth up.7
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PoginyHill

If the trees are close enough to the fence, you might be able to cut the stump above the fence and cause the tree to fall on the other side of the fence. If you are able to pull tension on the stem into the field/pasture and then cut it, it would likely be pulled several feet before hitting the fence or ground.
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doc henderson

I would do a face cut.  could do 10 trees first if you want to go all industrial on their little Ash ... tree.  then push or pull with your excavator (with or without chain or rope) and then make the back cut and pull the tree out of the way.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

barbender

I'm pretty sure I'd be using that new excavator to make them go where I wanted, in some form or another.
Too many irons in the fire

Old Greenhorn

Yes, those are always a pain unless you can just cut and fall where they wanna go. I was taught a trick for these in a class once that has served me pretty well and I use it when I need it. I use it a LOT on mushroom log trees when trying to protect keepers, because by definition, they are no bigger than 10" or so.
 I cut the face notch but not too deep so that you don't remove good hinge wood, just deep enough to get the direction right. So on an 8" tree, maybe 2-3" deep. Then I go around the back of the tree, find the notch level and bore cut straight through the center of the tree coming out through the notch. While it in there, I move the saw head left and right a bit to widen the cut at the back of the tree, being careful to pivot on the notch side (front) and not widen that side much, if at all. Then I drive a wedge in that back slot and tap it tight. I use about an 8" wedge, or a 5" if I have one, but remember, for a leaner you need lift. Once the wedge is tight, I then cut the remaining wood on each side to create a normal looking back cut. Don't cut the hinge and make sure that hinge is thick enough. In this case, the tree wants to go backwards and will pull on that hinge to do so, so it could snap the hinge. Then I just drive the wedge. If I need more lift, I put wedges on the outsides of the first wedge and stack as needed. Sounds complicated, but after the first one, it only takes a minute or two more than conventional felling and works quite well.

 However, given your resources, I don't see why you don't just put the excavator bucket up as high as you can reach, put in a face cut, and back cut and push it over? Doing a bunch of these might make it worth putting a v-notch plate on the backside of the bucket to capture the tree trunk so it doesn't slip off during the push. Works fast with 2 people.
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YellowHammer

I have about 3 miles, give or take, some is cross fence so I own both sides, and I can sometimes push from across the fence with my mini excavator.  The fence is so tight and close, that cutting the notch for one side then me crossing the fence several times to push over with the excavator is getting a little old, I even brought out a ladder to make it easier to cross the fences, although I can hear the deer and squirrels laugh in the distance. :D :D  However, some are property line fences where I can't get access to the other side with the machine.

The fences are 5 strand, high tensile Motto, in great shape, banjo tight, and I'd really want to limit any chances of damage.

If some get hung in the back trees, I can try to come down the line and try to push them to the ground from the side with my excavator or rope to the stem and pull them down from an angle with the tractor.

The main thing is I don't want them drop on the fence and since I have so many, I don't want to spend lots of time on each tree.  The bigger fence line trees are easier.  I wedge and fell them using conventional techniques, then come back and dig up the stump.  These little guys are a surprising pain.

I'be been using the excavator, the wedges, etc and they all kind of work, but nothing really works well, and I can help but think I'm missing the boat on something.  I've tried bore cutting but didn't think of using smaller, higher angled wedges.  Of course, some of my log wedges are shorter because they may (I won't admit it) have been trimmed with contact with the chain....

Lately, I've just been getting lazy and coming at them from down the fenceline with the excavator and pushing them over down the open line.  Use the bucket to cut most of the roots, but mindful of not cutting the roots that may help pull the tree back into the woods, "hinge roots" so to speak.  It's faster and I don't have to get out of the cab, but the other day I popped three wires when some side limbs hit the fence and I had to repair it. It may be that I just need more experience with the excavator, but it seems I should be able to do this with a chainsaw technique instead of having to resort to just brute force.  I'm always wanting to learn new felling techniques, and this seems like a good opportunity to do so.  

I do this kind of work alone, I know it's not a good idea, but most of the time, that the reality of it.  




YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

doc henderson

I can see Martha running the excavator with the boom and bucket just over your head as you make the cut.  you might make her breakfast on the days you are working together!   :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

I had an area when we moved here, that the kids called the dark forest.  just pulled many (up to 4 inches) with a chain over a wheel (for up lift) and loaded in the dump truck, or the car trailer prepared with a chain across it to use to pull the whole load off at the dump.  this was 20 years ago.  we now have a pool that we built.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

chep

I would just put in backcuts aimed at where you want the tree to go. Go right down the line cut as many as you can without getting pinched. Then follow with the excavator and push them all over. Some may barberchair a bit but from the safety of the cab it don't matter. 
 Don't worry about face cuts. The backcuts will control the direction just fine. And the front fiber will keep the tree on the stump so it won't wreck the fence.  And the excavator will be your wedge. Your not worried abut saving timber. It won't look pretty but that's how I would do it

Rhodemont

I have run into this along my pasture fences with maples coming up like weeds.  I have put a snatch block at the base of a big tree then used my Norse log winch on the back of the tractor to pull.  You could use the excavator to pull if you have a cable or a heavy duty rope.  The tractor on the pasture and the snatch block positioned to be able to move  the cable to several trees with out moving the tractor.  Cut/pull cut/pull cut/pull then move the snatch block and tractor for several more.
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Nealm66

I've found in those size hardwoods and pushing or pulling with a machine that it works the best to make a deeper undercut while the machine or winch has the weight and then pushing or pulling it over without the back cut. Basically breaking it over. It seems to follow the face better. Not sure if your machine is large enough for this. But this works best when you're by yourself as well. Hopefully the lid on you're machine is strong enough to withstand some of those branches that might land on you. One thing to consider with that much ground and potential trees, repair as needed. You could spend all that time and effort for not

Andries

YH:
I've copied from one of your replies:
" it seems I should be able to do this with a chainsaw technique instead of having to resort to just brute force.  I'm always wanting to learn new felling techniques, and this seems like a good opportunity to do so. "
.
My son's  tree service has to do this type of felling regularly: small diameter, tall and a narrow drop zone, plus bad machine accessibility.
We usually resort to a high pull line, a re-direct pulley and use the loader to pull the tree down a bowling ball narrow slot. The pull is coordinated by a comms link between cutter and puller, as the cut progresses, the pull increases which leaves the tree with no other option than to behave.
.
However, you're a one man band and have already said that you don't intend to fuss with ropes and come-alongs. Agreed; we have urban yards and you have miles of acres.
.
For your situation, what we've done is situated the loader and grapple where it can get its best push up on the tree. Eight to ten feet up, and in-line with the drop zone. Put enough push on the tree so that it'll hold it in position as you use the chainsaw. You're using the grapple or bucket as a 'hard hat' to saw under, so get a good bite into the trunk up there with those new snake-tongue teeth that you've put on your bucket. Make an accurate opening cut, one third through the tree, using your saw's sight line to guide your wedge cut to the drop target. The next step is going to be based on experience. Small trees might not need a felling cut (as Nealm66 described) bigger trees might need a conventional felling cut or a bore cut (described by OGH).
Saw only enough to be able to break the  holding wood with your mini-ex, which is positioned and ready to give the final shove. If the tree is located really awkwardly near the fence, a bucket "side push" might be enough to drop the tree. A v bracket might be the ticket for that, as OGH said, to control the tree's fall.
.
The variables are endless, but I'll bet you have fun as you figure out the best way forward. 👍


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barbender

I don't care for working under suspended equipment. I've had to hand fall stuff that is too big for the harvester to drop. The operator reached up, over my head to give the tree a push, and I didn't like that one bit. The tree is enough to worry about, and I have a fairly good idea what it's going to do. 

 YH, we're I in your shoes I think I would make a small face cut, and if the tree is too small to put the backing cut in without it setting back on your bar, I would bore cut it at whatever angle from the normal horizontal was necessary to leave a holding strap on the back. You could set up a string of them like this, jump back in the machine and go along and give them a push. The only problem I see is the stump is left with a vertical wedge that would be murder on tires, so you'd probably want to go back and cut them off.

 
Too many irons in the fire

YellowHammer

There are several techniques you folks suggested that I will try, first off the ideas of making various cuts on several trees in a row and then pushing them over with the excavator.  This should also solve some of the hung trees issues and most times these little guys grow in clumps and I don't want to face or back cutting with another hung tree over my head.  Cut a few and push over a few, then move on, dropping them like dominoes.  If one sets back I can wedge it off the bar or even bore cut it to keep it from happening.  

With these "partial cut" techniques, it seems that they all have in common that I leave a thick hinge that I can push over, then I will have that much more directional control.  

Once they are down I can cut the stump off and dig it up, or even just dig it up with the stem hinge attached if they don't separate clean and fold them up and push them into the woods.

Good suggestions from everyone, thanks. 


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

btulloh

HM126

Walnut Beast

Quote from: Nealm66 on December 16, 2022, 10:56:19 AM
I've found in those size hardwoods and pushing or pulling with a machine that it works the best to make a deeper undercut while the machine or winch has the weight and then pushing or pulling it over without the back cut. Basically breaking it over. It seems to follow the face better. Not sure if your machine is large enough for this. But this works best when you're by yourself as well. Hopefully the lid on you're machine is strong enough to withstand some of those branches that might land on you. One thing to consider with that much ground and potential trees, repair as needed. You could spend all that time and effort for not
He's kinda got the idea I would do. But this is what I would do to be safe and fast. Get a 50' cable or longer, a snatch block and chain and small recovery strap to put around trees for snatch block. Position the snatch block the way you want the trees to go, cable and chain trees. Hook to the excavator or skid and pull the direction you want them and you are safely out of the way! Simple and fairly fast. That cable that's swaged on each will come in handy down the road. I'll take some pictures of the block and tackle I use to move some monster walnut trees.

There is no way I would jack around with a jack or stuff like that with the big boy equipment you have to do the heavy lifting in any situation! 

Old Greenhorn

You know, if you weren't so dang flippin' far away I would happily trade you a day or two of my time cutting in front of your excavator for a day of watching you saw and asking questions. It would seem like a win-win, but the fuel costs alone really raise the cost of entry, plus the drive time. Too Bad.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

stavebuyer

If you have miles of fence-line to do I would buy an Arbo head or hire a feller buncher. Those size trees are easily pulled or pushed but it would take 3 or 4 times as much time trying to do it by yourself.

barbender

YH, if you're going to dig the stumps up anyways I would probably just do it all with the excavator. You can directional fall by how you dig the stumps loose, too😊

This is how I was recommending to precut with a chainsaw. The tree is still well attached (still not to be trusted) until you come along and bump it with the excavator and snap that holding strap. I used to fall trees like this all the time with a forwarder, just a decent bump from the crane would snap the strap and get it on its way



Too many irons in the fire

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