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Birds nest

Started by Jeff, February 21, 2019, 03:52:51 PM

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Jeff

Thats all I know what to call it.  Here is my before picture.  I may need some input from some of you electrical minded guys.  I plan on relocating most everything and straightening out this mess.

The mustang has an electric furl pump, electric water pump, electric fan and MSD ignition a bit old stereo and  apparently no forethought on wire routing.  Everything seems to be protected ok, but the fuel pump is wired hot to a toggle that is also the feed for the water pump. You have to switch the toggle to kill the fuel. I have a new relay here that has a tach switch. Once wired, you get 3 seconds of feed to pressure the fuel pump when energized, then it quits and does not pump until you start the car. It is powered as long as there is tach signal. Engine dies, pump dies.



 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Magicman

On any rewiring job, first decide where you want your wire loom to be.  After that it's one wire at the time and when you are satisfied with it, then move on to the next wire.  That way you are never concerned with the bird's nest because when you reroute the last wire, it will be gone.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jeff

I'm going to relocate the MSD box to begin with. I need to do something about the way things are fused as well. Lots of messy inline fuses. The mustangs stock fuse box is pretty basic. They have power to these add ons with just wires stuck in under fuses.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

AZ_builder

Scavenge a small fuse box from the scrap yard or order one from painless. Then you'll have a dedicated power bus to run off of. Electrical is better if it's ground switched (if possible) like stated previously, wire loom is a clean look.

Jeff

I have a continuous use solenoid here that I am planning to wire into the system. I will use that to turn on a small fuse box that runs the signal switches to the relays for the pumps and fans. That was I only need one wire running into the main fuse box to a keyed circuit. I've also got two breakers I am going to put in. a 100 amp for that solenoid, and replace the 50 amp fuse for the stereo with a 50 amp breaker.

part of my collection:


 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

AZ_builder

Looks like you know what your working with. 

yukon cornelius

That is going to clean up that mess. I like the tach switch. My concern with electric fuel pump swaps has always been the hazard in a worst case scenario such as an accident or fire.
It seems I am a coarse thread bolt in a world of fine threaded nuts!

Making a living with a manual mill can be done!

Jeff

Do you guys think it will be a problem to do the following.  My plan is to use the continuous duty solenoid to add key on accessory power to the fan, water pump, fuelpump and MDS.   THis being a ford, it had a for starter solenoid. That has power from the battery to one side, plus the alternator feed the other side goes to the starter. The smaller poles, one energizes with the key, and the other, it the start engage side.

What I want to do, is jump from that solenoid's key on post to the key on post on the new solenoid to activate that when I turn on the key. This way I do not have to run another wire from somewhere inside the car. I know it works, as I  used three jumper wires and a test light to activate and test it laying on the fender. It clicks on and off okay.  I'm just wondering if that wire is going to be compromised with additionally current draw.

I plan on running a 2ga wire from the battery to the starter solenoid to replace the ragged 4ga that it has now, then jump from the starter solenoid to a 100amp breaker, then onto the hot side of the new continuous duty solenoid using a 4ga wire.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

doc henderson

that should work if my brain drew and under stood your described wire diagram.  i think you could mock it up and check wires for heat and check current draw.  is the reason for the second solenoid to isolate accessories or replace the ford solenoid?  Sounds like the former.  you are talking about the low current "signal" wires correct.  You could also go to the new cont. duty solenoid first and run a wire to the ford solenoid from the high current hot side.  but if that solenoid failed, you could not start you car.  you could also have a secret toggle inside the car that stops current to the starter solenoid to avoid theft, but that would add more wire.  does the new solenoid have a low side rated amp/current?  could also install a fuse or breaker sized to the wire to protect the system.  went back and looked at your pics, it appears you are doing this right!!
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

AZ_builder

I would run your bigger wire to a buss then wire off that to the solenoid and individually fuse the rest of the components off the buss. Less heat and resistance on your solenoid wire.

Brad_bb

Jeff,
One of the best things I discovered is the Del City weather tight connectors.  I love them.  Solder and heat shrink all at once with a heat gun.  They've got all kinds of great auto electrical products.  
Solder Heat Shrink Terminal Installation - YouTube

Del City - Electrical Supplies & Professional Grade Wiring Products
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Jeff

Ill definitly be checking those out. @Brad_bb what do you use for your heat source?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don_Papenburg

Just hoping that the 50amp to the stereo was 5amp  ,or that is one booming stereo.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Jeff

No, its 50 amp. 1200 watt.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Brad_bb

Quote from: Jeff on February 23, 2019, 06:45:03 PM
Ill definitly be checking those out. @Brad_bb what do you use for your heat source?
I use the $50 heat gun they sell.  I have use a small torch before, but I think the heat gun is more controllable so as not to overheat and melt the heat shrink portion.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Jeff

It looks like those solder connections are listed as obsolete on their website.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

doc henderson

They have the "double wall"  heat shrink tubes that have the weatherproof adhesive.  can solder first and then slide over.  Not as neat as what Brad suggested.  I think they have the crimp and heat shrink, but I always like to tin wires and solder connections.  I am sure it will be neat as a pin when you are done.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Magicman

During my professional life as a telephone company cable splicer, I made literally hundreds of thousands of wire splices.  I would be reluctant to use the heat gun solder splices.  I watched the video and see no way for you to actually know what the quality of the splice is. 

I agree with doc above about tinning, crimping, soldering, and heat shrinking.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

AZ_builder

All of our splices at work and crimp connectors with built in heat shrink, especially airbag stuff.

petefrom bearswamp

Listen to da magic man, he knows his onions (and grits)
Notice how grits creep into a lot of threads.
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Jeff

I'm going to have to lengthen several wires so I'll need to certainly do some quality splicing.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Brad_bb

I'm now seeing that.  The solder and heat shrink say "Obsolete" by them.  I'm going to call when they are open to find out what the deal is.  That was the biggest draw of their products.  I learned about them be cause West Coast Customs used them to easily wire up all of their LED and neon lights and other accessories.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Jeff

They seem to be readily available on amazon, but I'm leery about that obsolete tag. Out of stock, currently unavailable, that would be another thing.   From what I am reading on line the non-crimp soldered connections are more prone to failure due to wire fatigue.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Brad_bb

Ok, I've been going over their website and have found that they still have the terminals I use.  I use the 3 function crimp, solder, and heat shrink terminals.  These connectors allow you to crimp to hold the terminal in place so you don't have to worry about it coming off or moving positions while you then use heat to shrink the heat shrink sleeve and melt the solder.  

I was initially confused looking at the 2 function solder and heat shrink terminals as some of those have been obsoleted.  They are probably phasing those out because they are harder to work with without the crimp.

I don't know if you would be interested in buying individual packaged terminals or an entire kit?  Looking at the kits, I also see that they changed from lead containing solder to lead free.  The 200 pc kit was obsoleted because it was lead solder terminals that are no long sold, The lead free 200 pc kit is there though.  I don't think we'll see any installation or performance difference.  In any case, there are crimp, heat shrink, and solder kits available.  I bought a big kit initially to get started.  They are more expensive than the cheap auto parts store terminals, but I think the easy of use and weather tight features make it worth the money.
Home

Here are the butt connectors:
Home

All the other terminal configurations are there in Crimp, solder, heat shrink.

I think they made their website a little confusing by leaving the obsolete items there.

Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Jeff

I started the mustang up and ran it a little before  I get in there and disable it to rewire. I recorded a couple revs.  Man, there appears to be some power lurking in there! Note I had to kill the fuel pump after shutdown. Me no like.

Forestryforum 71 mustang first revs. - YouTube
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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