I ordered the 22 hp predator engine from harbor freight today. Now there is no going back. I think tomorrow I need to call Linn Lumber back and order the rest of the parts.
Let the sawdust addiction begin...
Does anyone use the Linn Lumber spring loaded log clamps? I am toying with the idea of using them. They look pretty sweet in the video's
I have no idea on the loaders, but many folks have gone the Linn route with very good success. I say go a bit more heavy than light, and plan on using off the shelf bearings and stuff. Not sure of your basic design, but I may suggest in regards to your bed rails, rather than going with a fixed welded approach, consider using rails that you can line up with threads and lock nuts, just a thought.
Planning on a trailer build. Figured since steel comes in 24' lengths I would do 24' bed with no seams. If I want longer I will make another section that pins together like you said. I like that idea a lot.
sounds like you have a plan,, its been awhile since I've bought steel, but from years in the trade, it seems I remember those 24' sections with some kind of bow,,regardless of the shape. Channel, I-beams, angle and tubing. Its great for frames, and with lots of care and some kind of proper tacking and welding, they can be brought back straight. Other wise I would design a frame, then an adjustable bed rail to compensate for any bow that may show up.. a bit more cost, but in the end, lots fewer issues to deal with. WMZ has a good idea with their design, IMO.
The only time i Have noticed any bow is when I have it sitting on something without the end supported. I will definitely take a real close look at that though.
I was considering making the rail bolt on. that way when I drop a log on it and wreck it then its easy to replace. And a lot easier to align.
Thanx for the input.
Quote from: Crusarius on July 04, 2017, 06:02:33 PM
I ordered the 22 hp predator engine from harbor freight today. Now there is no going back. I think tomorrow I need to call Linn Lumber back and order the rest of the parts.
Let the sawdust addiction begin...
Does anyone use the Linn Lumber spring loaded log clamps? I am toying with the idea of using them. They look pretty sweet in the video's
My neighbor has a Linn mill, the spring log clamps work well, also recommend the hdy tightener..
yes. definitely going that route. Right now I am looking at the basic kit with HD 2 groove clutch, raise and lower kit, and spring clamps. Then build the rest.
I use the spring clamps on my Linn Lumber homemade mill. They've held everything I've ever needed just fine. The mill is designed well and has performed good for me. If I had it to do all over again I would go with the cam lock type clamps like the Boardwalk mills have on them. Quick, simple, rugged. The spring clamps are simple and rugged too, just probably not quite as quick. We're talking a few seconds only, really, but there it is for you to peruse. \
I could be happier with the backstops but then again if I could do it over it would have the Boardwalk clamps and the backstop would follow the clamp. The backstops are very simple and function perfect - they're just slower compared to others.
Don't be in a rush if you can help it and take your time to get everything as perfect as humanly possible is the only advice I'll give ya. Once she's welded all together it's hard to straighten it. Good luck. And hopefully you're not dyslexic like me and you won't hafta weld and cut all apart the sawframe 3 different times! >:( :laugh:
I did read your sawmill build and I really felt bad for that. I am hoping I won't make those mistakes but I am sure I will. Thats ok though. building it is half the fun.
You are not very far from me. Want a visitor? Would love to look at your mill.
I'm guessing you're about 2.5 to 3 hours away. That's a lot of driving to look at a mill (for me), but you're welcome to come on if ya want to! Send me a PM if ya still feel like it.
I'm not doing any milling again for several months because I've run out of covering materials, my stacks are drying now for a porch build and we don't have any money for new covering due to medical bills and such piling up so there won't be any real milling but I could probably throw an old black locust up on there just to give you a feel and taste of the mill if ya want.
That sure would be nice. Love to get a good look at the Linn stuff before ordering it. UNfortunately my schedule is insane till september.
How do you feel about sundays?
It's just another day to us. Come on if you're coming. :laugh:
I will let you know. This saturday the 8th is my Bday party. I may be up for a ride sunday.
At least to start with make everything adjustable level and plumb. If a band mill is built and setup level it makes everything much easier to adjust. Frank C.
I know I have seen ppl say not to use trailer jacks for legs but that may be the route I go. I like the quick and easy adjustability. Especially in my nice soft clay soil.
Trailer jacks is what's holding my mill up out of the dirt. 6 of them. Cleaned out the whole county and the next county Tractor Supply stores of them when I needed them. I screwed 3 red pine 4x4s sprayed down with used motor oil on the bottom of the jack shoes. The only drawback is these jacks might could cause the mill to rock front to back just a bit in perfect situations but 99.9% of the time it's steady and solid. Even though the locking pin is in the jack can still move on the swivel a bit. All I can say is I wouldn't change a thing with the jacks. Works for me.
I was thinking about angling the jacks very slightly to fight that little rock you were talking about.
How about figuring out a way to clamp the swivel plate tight to keep anything from moving? Maybe drill a hole through the two plates and tighten down a nut and bolt there clamping it tight and preventing any movement.
Simple set screw would work find for that. Will keep that in mind when I get to that point.
I was also concerned about the lifting leg shaft wiggling inside the jack sleeve.
I bet it would make it harder for them to rock with a 2' long oak 2x6 bolted to the foot.
PC
That's what I did with the 4x4s I mentioned earlier. They're running between pairs of jacks width wise to the mill. Screwed down and all made everything pretty sturdy.
Don't worry about a little wiggling. Won't hurt nothing. It'll settle into the dirt a little and stiffen up. Just make sure she's straight and true and not flexing and she'll cut straight for ya.
Or not use trailer jacks. Beats me...
Tracking says engine should be here Monday. Now I really need to order the rest of the stuff. Ox I am trying to figure out if I will be up to visiting you Sunady after my bday party on saturday. Not sure how I will feel.
I would think cross bracing would stiffen up the trailer jacks. It would take a few minutes to install but braces attached with muffler clamps would likely turn the trick. Frank C.
Crusarius - you better hold off until a better day. The day after a birthday and imbibing in some cold beer is a day that should be scheduled for rest. If it were me I'd be saying, "Sorry but my birthday is the day before and there's gonna be beer and barbeque and buds." Say no more. ;) :D
Looks like everyone I wanted to come is bailing.
Want to come? bring the mill? :)
Fedex says 22 hp predator is out for delivery.
here is the first piece.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20170711_180037.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499861708)
of course now I wonder how well it will fit in the cozy coupe right next to it :)
Nah, I need a sawmill
Do it! :D :D
I really do not need that kind of encouragement :) Already planning on building a pair of mini baja cars for father and son :)
Test fired the engine this weekend. Fired right up. Ran great. Hopefully it does the same under load.
Mental note for anyone buying this engine. It does not have pull start like I thought it did. And it also did not come with a fuel tank.
Good news is there is a siphon pump so it will suck fuel out of a corona bottle :)
Is it the typical vacuum operated fuel pump found on these types of engines? Glad it's running good. I'm sure it'll be fine when hooked up and under a load.
Did you order any steel or plans or anything yet?
not yet. need to go back to linn lumber and look at the kits again. Still think it makes sense to order the kit for all the other parts.
Ox, thanx for the hospitality was great to meet you and really helpful looking at your mill.
So I have been thinking about the bed for my mill. I would like to use box steel for the main frame. I am planning on using angle iron legs down for the rails to make a V and then using v groove wheels.
How many wheels should I do?
I know it is just a matter of time before I hit the rails with the tractor or drop something on them and damage them. My thought was either 3 or 4 wheels per side. That way if I ding the rail the second wheel will carry the first over it. The wheels with be within 6" of each other on the front. if I choose 4 wheels then they will be the same 6" spacing on the back.
Now that I think about it, a true V groove wheel rides on the flats not on the point. Maybe this question just became null and void?
Anybody have any thoughts or opinions?
I got my V groove wheels off E-bay and I used 6.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/carriage_wheels~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500326399)
What size did you use? I was thinking I wanted 2 or 2.5.
I have a few of these , new , if you want them let me know . Send something to the FF and I will send them to you ! Rob
KB did you end up centering the middle wheel?
These are WM parts from a mill I used to own. Rob
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/DSCN1542.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1500337278)
I had some time last night to play with the bed design. Please ,excuse my super crude drawing. it was late and last minute.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/sawmill_back_stop_concept.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500380578)
The yellow bars are 2" tubes with 1.5" tube slid inside and locked with a T nut. They have a pivot point in the center of them. The red bar connects the bottoms of all the yellows that pivot off the center point. There is a threaded rod connecting to the red bar that makes it so I can stand at the end of the mill and raise all of them using a crank or power tools. Maybe electric motor if I get crazy.
Any thoughts on why this will not work? I think it will work for raising and lowering nicely but not sure if I want all 4 backstops to move all the time.
Just like some car lifts. I think it will work great if you also weld in some cross members.
yea thats what those hard to see black boxes are. The arms will actually rest against them when all the way up. That will give me a positive stop so the threaded rod is not supporting it.
Go for it...
Quote from: Crusarius on July 17, 2017, 09:24:38 AM
Ox, thanx for the hospitality was great to meet you and really helpful looking at your mill.
Glad it was helpful for ya - if you need other measurements or whatever just give a holler!
I think if you're running v groove wheels on an angle iron upside down in a "v" and you're not riding on the edge of one of the legs, and you nick or dent the top of the "v" it'll tend to push out material (the steel angle iron itself) which will make your mill bounce UP a little when it rides over it, not down. In this scenario your extra wheels are null and void. In this scenario quick application with a BFH (big fast hammer ;D) will mash the anomaly back down and flat with utmost authority.
Ox, that is a very good point.
Can you measure the throat depth on your saw? from the blade to the frame. Want to know how big of a beam I can make.
12 1/2".
A 12 x 12, 16' long will require 3 men and a boy to move. Maybe even Grandma holding a whip...
I have this feeling my L2800 Kubota will not be big enough when I start doing real milling
You're probably right. You'll be rolling, sliding and skidding instead of lifting sometimes...
Can you set up a jib pole? I was going to go this route years ago but never did.
Do you know about parbuckling? Your tractor will make short work of big logs using this method.
Quote from: Crusarius on July 18, 2017, 10:21:48 AM
I have this feeling my L2800 Kubota will not be big enough when I start doing real milling
Nothing is ever big enough, but it seems like everybody makes do with whatever they have. I always need something bigger. Mostly I use 3pt hitch forks on the back of the tractor and make do. They have the most lifting capacity for my tractor. I also made some bucket forks for the 4-in-1 which are useful too, but have their limitations.
Good luck with the build and the new tractor, forklift, skidsteer, pole barn, saw shed, kiln, equipment shed, chainsaws, cant hooks, hookaroons, etc. you'll be getting sometime in the future.
My buddy is selling a 60 hp skidsteer :) Should be more than enough. For today :)
You are all very right. I will make do with what I have. I do have a crazy design in my head involving a pair of angled poles stuck in the ground and a winch :)
Quote from: Remle on July 05, 2017, 08:36:04 AM
Quote from: Crusarius on July 04, 2017, 06:02:33 PM
Does anyone use the Linn Lumber spring loaded log clamps? I am toying with the idea of using them. They look pretty sweet in the video's
My neighbor has a Linn mill, the spring log clamps work well, also recommend the hdy tightener..
I looked on the Linn Lumber site and could not find any reference to "spring log clamps" under accessories or parts. Can you show me where to look?
You will have to look at the videos. They only show the clamps in those.
Their website leaves a bit to be desired. Half the parts on my buy list from them do not even show up on the website.
Quote from: Crusarius on July 19, 2017, 07:36:26 AM
You will have to look at the videos. They only show the clamps in those.
Their website leaves a bit to be desired. Half the parts on my buy list from them do not even show up on the website.
Crusarius beat me to it.. Yes, look for the 10 second segment, 1:00 to 1:10 in the 2012 sawmill demonstration. They simply ride back and forth on the cross rails and are held with a simple spring / chain.
Little more screwing around on the computer last night. Seems I can only spend about 30 minutes at a time doing computer stuff.
This entire assembly is supposed to rotate 90 degrees to switch from backstop and clamp to just log clamps. The right half of the assembly will slide and be held in place using a spring and chain. I put a chain slot in the clamp and on the bracket so when it is rotated I do not have to try to reach underneath to hook the chain.
The same concept with the connecting rod to raise and lower all of them at one time. I was originally thinking T-bolts for set screws for the bar height adjust but now am wondering if I can mill detente slots into the bar and make spring loaded detentes. definitely make for quick easy adjustments.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/sawmill_log_clamp.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500563613)
The downside to this setup is not being able to use the backstop and the bottom clamp at the same time. Does anyone think that will be a problem? I feel that once it is square then I will use the clamps instead of the stops anyhow.
Instead of milling detente slots I bought square rack off E-bay.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Rack~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1500564740)
how do you lock it? Is that what sits against the log?
Quote from: Crusarius on July 20, 2017, 11:54:10 AM
how do you lock it? Is that what sits against the log?
I started out with a twist screw but I soon changed to a cam lock.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Log_dog_thumb_screw.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1500597658)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Red_oak_log~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1500597869)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Cam_lock~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500598017)
That makes sense I was picturing the rack being vertical. I plan on using a spring tensioner to hold the log clamp in place. The detentes I was talking about was for the vertical pieces so they did not have to have T-bolts to lock them in place.
Might have some time to do a quick sketch tonight.
I finally ordered my parts from Linn Lumber.
Ordered the basic 36" saw head. the raise and lower kit. and the 2 belt clutch.
I will be trying to keep a close tally on what I spend and how many hours I put into this. May help someone in the future. Or at least maybe make me feel better about what its going to cost me to build.
A close tally of cost and how long to do things would be one of the best built threads to do. You'll be surprised at how many people will read it and follow it, even if it's silently.
popcorn_smiley
PC
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15434/P1040229-1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1232652447)
I built a Linn as well, purchased just the sawhead. I did my own legs/feet, which works well since I am mostly stationary.
Your movable backstop design would be really nice over totally manual, my bunks/backstops are movable back and forth on the bed, which is handy.
One thing I usually miss is some kind of toe jack/roller.
I do agree, once you get going, sawing is easy, handling logs is WORK. My tractor will lift 2k lbs on the loader, but I still have to parbuckle the larger logs up onto the saw. The other must is power carriage travel and height. No way you can crank all the time.
One advantage of the Linn 36 inch model is the 158 inch blade, a common length.
Good luck!
Scrout, you ever find the want to have more downward force on the legs? or is the gravity good enough? I was planning trailer jacks. But I keep thinking about the $40 each and wanting 8 of them.
ooh this is neat.
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Jack/etrailer/TJ01RT.html
to bad it does not have a crank for fine height adjust.
So the tracking numbers say my packages should arrive Tuesday 8/15/17 from Linn Lumber.
I was at Empire farm days show on Tuesday and found a real nice 10" dual compound sliding miter steel cutting saw. Will cut a 3x8 piece of tube. Since I was planning 2x6 for my frame this will make my life great since my bandsaw only was able to cut 4.5". Made me have to flip the tube over try to line it up again then grind the mess off anyhow.
Of course the following weekend I will be in the adirondacks so not able to work on it. But good news is that is the boonville show weekend :)
Crusarius, to I detect a tad bit of excitement?
Quote from: Crusarius on August 01, 2017, 12:44:40 PM
ooh this is neat.
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Jack/etrailer/TJ01RT.html
to bad it does not have a crank for fine height adjust.
How about a top wind 2000 lb trailer jack (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/10-000-PSI-Power-Team-Components/Jacks/2000-LB-TRAILER-JACK-76070-1-4153.axd)? Would that work?
I built my own frame years ago out of 4x8 square tubing which has held up really great but, sure is heavy to pull.
I always told myself if I would ever build another frame it would be out of 2 inch tubing and the sides of the frame would be built like an invented truss. A frame built like that would be very strong plus alot lighter.
EZ
Quote from: Darrel on August 11, 2017, 04:49:17 PM
Crusarius, to I detect a tad bit of excitement?
Just a tiny bit :)
Quote from: grouch on August 11, 2017, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: Crusarius on August 01, 2017, 12:44:40 PM
ooh this is neat.
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Jack/etrailer/TJ01RT.html
to bad it does not have a crank for fine height adjust.
How about a top wind 2000 lb trailer jack (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/10-000-PSI-Power-Team-Components/Jacks/2000-LB-TRAILER-JACK-76070-1-4153.axd)? Would that work?
thats not bad. Wonder if the top wind be in the way?
I am planning 2x6.188 wall. Just the frame should weigh approximately 720 pounds. By the time everything else is on it I am betting the entire thing will weight 1500. Definitely hope to keep it under 1800. Should make it pretty reasonable to move around with just about anything. Except maybe not so easy by hand.
The clutch showed up Monday. I got 2 boxes today. Expecting 2 more tomorrow. To bad I will be in the Adirondacks this weekend. Won't get a chance to start building.
But at least I will get to Boonville.
Here are the first 3 packages. Next two should be here today.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20170815_183244.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502885625)
I may be getting a little excited about this :) Already have a few ppl telling me about trees they are taking down. Have a lead on 3 nice basswood trees and a few nice maples. Plus my 10 acres of my father 50 acres of trees.
Where am I going to store all this wood?
You can store your excess wood at my house. My storage fee is absolute and unhindered use of said wood. ;D
Have fun at Boonville. I went once. Loved the machinery, hated the crowds. I don't think I'll ever go again.
Ox do you do pickups?
I do hate crowds, but I enjoy toys :)
My pickup fee is double the amount of wood. Free, clear and unhindered use required of course. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm gonna need this in lumber form, all planed to uniform thickness and all shoulders rounded over. Is this too high a storage fee? :laugh:
you lost me at planed. what you think this is? An airport? :)
here it is. The last package arrived. Now to figure out how it all goes together.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20170816_181550.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502973108)
i meant planed as in running them all through a thickness planer to have uniform thickness to all boards :)
I know :) you will have to buy me the planer first.
see how dumb i am? you made a funny and i was too stupid to see it. you win. :D
WOOHOOO :)
Now I am faced with the biggest dilemma and hardest decision to make.
What color do I paint it?
I love orange but don't want to look like a woodmizer, really prefer to have a color that is not on a production mill.
I love yellow and really want to do yellow but trying to get a nice yellow paint that doesn't need 100 coats is not easy.
Any ideas?
Paint it the color of sawdust. What is your favorite lumber species?? ??? :D
Good yellow paint can be had from the tractor supply store cheap.
Everything I have tried from them still takes 3 coats to look the way I want it to. If I didn't hate painting so much it wouldn't be bad to have the extra protection.
Try tinting your primer yellow. It makes a world of difference.
Tractor Supply is a good suggestion. Even if it takes 3 coats. They sell hardener for their enamel, which I think is essential on machinery. You can get some pretty good machinery enamel (and hardener) at NAPA for a decent price. Not cheap, but you get what you pay for with paint. If you want it to last and look good, spending a couple extra bucks on paint is a good idea when you consider the time you put in to prep and paint.
If you really want it Concourse-ready you could color sand, buff it out, then clay it to get that Best-of-show, ten-foot deep look. ;)
Any pro paint supplier will have a good single-stage enamel for machinery.
If it were me, I would use a two-part epoxy primer as well. Just my 2/100 of a dollars worth.
Quote from: Crusarius on August 18, 2017, 09:14:20 AM
Now I am faced with the biggest dilemma and hardest decision to make.
What color do I paint it?
I love orange but don't want to look like a woodmizer, really prefer to have a color that is not on a production mill.
I love yellow and really want to do yellow but trying to get a nice yellow paint that doesn't need 100 coats is not easy.
Any ideas?
You could prime it with EPX-900 / 901 epoxy primer. (Data sheet says it comes in gray, but all I've ever seen is baby-poop yellow). It's an industrial coating and 1 coat will definitely cover anything underneath. It will break down in UV, though. I have a King Cutter 5ft tiller that looks a little chalky after 5 or 6 years; it came with that epoxy as a top coat.
That would give you a yellow base so that your top coat won't have to be so heavy.
Thanx for all the ideas. I definitely like the idea of having a nice hard paint so it lasts. I am sure I will need to modify it in the future.
So is yellow the right color? My wife wants me to make it purple :)
I started picturing purple with fluorescent green.
No. think_not steve_smiley dadgum you, Charlie! arg-smiley no_no ban_smiley Friends don't let friends have purple sawmills. ;) :)
What Ox said!!!!!
Step out into the woods. Shake a sapling vigorously. Search the ground around it until you find a caterpillar or other woods critter. Paint sawmill to *match* critter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/frog-5351.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496928804)
I had a hard enough time finding my big blue truck at boonville. If I did that I would never see my sawmill again. :) Kool thought though. but I need to go to the rainforest to get the colors I like :) Loud and obnoxious.
It might be time for an intervention, fellas. :snowball:
I will be home working in the shop all weekend :)
Sounds like fun to me! 8)
Quote from: Crusarius on August 22, 2017, 07:51:18 AM
I had a hard enough time finding my big blue truck at boonville. If I did that I would never see my sawmill again. :) Kool thought though. but I need to go to the rainforest to get the colors I like :) Loud and obnoxious.
A sawmill should fit in with its neighboring flora and fauna.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/millipede-4339.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503430789)
How about a subdued industrial paint job?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/woodpecker-1750.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503430792)
Maybe basic black and white with a splash of loud?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/caterpillar-2912.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503430787)
Pastels with an attitude?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/caterpillar-3144.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503430786)
Warning! Do not touch! -- Fitting message on a sawmill, eh?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/toad-3222.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503430792)
This one would be easy; just leave it bare metal for a little while. ;D
I love it :)
Paint should be functional and there is no reason that one of its functions shouldn't be entertainment. :)
I really want to make a statement :)
Didn't another company use yellow for a while?
Statememt? I'm just sayin'.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39962/maxresdefault.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503491802)
oh hell yea :)
If I saw something like that crawling out of my woods, it might be justification for buying a can of bug spray. I'd at least load the shotgun and dare it to move.
:D you crack me up grouch
Love it :)
Quote from: Ox on August 23, 2017, 09:36:47 AM
:D you crack me up grouch
Hey, now! You can't put that on me; there are warnings all over this place about wearing your helmet!
ok. so for now we will pause on the color. I am trying to figure out the carriage. Most of the mills I have seen use 1x1 4 post design. I am thinking 2x6 2 post design.
Anybody have any thoughts? I would like to keep the carriage as light as possible. But still sturdy and not flex on me.
The 2 post design will also make access quite a bit nicer not having to go inside the frame for everything.
2x6x.188 that I have is 9.747 pounds per foot.
2x6x.120 6.332 pounds per foot
2x6x.095 5.045 pounds per foot
1x1x.120 1.436 pounds per foot
1x1x.095 1.169 pounds per foot.
Any of those sizes could be made very strong with proper bracing.
I've never seen one built on 1x1 posts (assuming inches).
My HF mill (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90230.0.html) has 1 square post and 1 round post. The only flex it has is in the same plane as the blade; that is, the left and right sides of the carriage (facing the direction of the operator during a cut) may not always be in line during the cut. The left usually lags a fuzz behind the right. This doesn't hurt the precision of the cut.
Assume the track is level forward and back (X) as well as left and right (Y). The blade must be held level (parallel to the plane of the track) regardless of its height (Z) above the track.
The posts are rigidly attached to the carriage wheels. If the top of the posts can flex forward or back, that causes the blade to be on an intersecting plane with the track rather than parallel. If the top of the posts can flex side to side, that _may_ cause the blade to not be parallel to the plane of the track, depending on the head design.
If the carriage wheels on one side lead or lag the wheels on the other side, the blade can remain parallel to the plane of the track and will simply cut with one side or the other in the lead, like leaning a handsaw into a cut instead of square to the face of the board.
The connection between posts and carriage must be rigid so that the angle of the posts to the track never changes under load. The connection at the top of the posts must be rigid so that the posts stay parallel to each other at all times.
(I started to say the posts must be square to the track front to back, but sure as I do, somebody will make a frame based on equilateral triangles with the head riding up and down along a tube angled 30 degrees from level).
The other thing I need to think about is what I will have the head riding on. is it just going to use the threaded rod? or will I have a square tube that it slides over and the threaded rod only raises and lowers.
The second option will be much more stable.
yay. I just had a piece of 1.25" wide metal banding crimped to a 158" length. Now I have a dummy sawblade without teeth. That will be nice since I already shredded my arm last night.
second option for sure - i wouldn't want an entire mill head hanging off of any type of threads...tube within a tube so it can slide.
yea. wondering if I need to get really fancy and do a bearing or just steel on steel or HDPE insert.
I am liking the insert idea to keep from wrecking the paint and having rust issues. Last thing I want is for the verticals to rust and make the head not move smoothly.
mine is steel on steel, worn off paint. i just oil now and then - no problems. many mills are this way. if it was a problem i think they'd do it differently... now if it was a commercial mill it would wear out. but our little play mills? not much of a problem!
Last night I got 5 more minutes in the shop. I have been looking at the pillow block bearings since I got them wondering why they didn't seem right. I finally put the inner collar on a flat surface and it was clear as day. Apparently the bearing were not installed straight. There is enough misalignment that I don't think I can adjust it out.
I sent an email asking if there is anything we can do about it. Hopefully I will hear back from him today. This may delay my build :(
The bearings are adjustable. A plastic hammer will move them...
oooh. thats nice to know. I thought I would have to put them in the press to straighten them out.
After you bolt them down you can stick the shaft in there and twist them around wherever they need to be also.
Called self aligning. The reason is the bearings correct for any inaccuracy of the mounting system. The twist is also how bearings are installed in the block.
1 more hour then its time to go build a sawmill....
And in the event that the bearings ever fail, you can just replace the bearing, no need to replace the block.
thats really nice to know. Thanks.
I just spent all day drilling and tapping holes. I did learn a very valuable lesson. when you like to weld hot, like I do, drill and tap the holes before you final weld the plate. That plate was quite hard to tap. Glad it was the 1/2 x 13 holes and not the 3/16.
I may have to start a new build thread for the actual build portion and keep this one for crazy ideas. And pink sawmills :)
Quote from: Crusarius on August 26, 2017, 07:52:53 PM
I may have to start a new build thread for the actual build portion and keep this one for crazy ideas. And pink sawmills :)
You may be on to something here. I once heard from a reliable source that pink cars are the safest cars on the road as evidenced by the fact that fewer people are hurt in pink car crashes than any other color of car.
I'm sure that the same thing is true of pink sawmills!
:D :D :D :D :D
smiley_bouncing_pinky smiley_bouncing_pinky smiley_bouncing_pinky smiley_bouncing_pinky
Oh dear... ^
I think your idea of a separate thread is a good one.
Ox, I just want you to know I blame you for what I did today!
More stories and pictures to follow.
What? More stories and pictures to follow? What way did they go? I'm right behind them!!! :D :D :D :D
Well not much of a story besides I thought they went one way.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20170827_181001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503921548)
What is wrong with this picture?
Quote from: Crusarius on August 28, 2017, 08:00:24 AM
Well not much of a story besides I thought they went one way.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20170827_181001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503921548)
What is wrong with this picture?
That's easy. The galvanized steel garbage can lid is on the floor instead of on the can.
'Coons and cats will get in your can, y'know.
Your going to have fun putting a band blade on that..
That can lid is on my rag bucket. its not on the floor. It does a great job of preventing fire.
KB its ok I fixed it :)
At least your backwards moment was only two bolts and not nice welds...
Be careful with the main sawframe - it's what got me.
no, the rails were welded together backwards. I had to cut the tacks on the connecting pieces and flip it around.
But good news is they were only tacks. This is why I never full weld till everything has been test fit.
What I saw was the guide roller on backwards...but now that you mention it...knock it off, Ox. You're getting all "lysdexic". ;) That last thing was coined by somebody else here, I can't remember who, but I can't take credit for it. Cracked me up!
Try this one
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/20170827_180955.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503931567)
Nice fabrication, but I see some problems. Installing a blade gonna be problematic. No adjustment for tracking. Real problem with the guide roller. I see up-down adjustment, but none for in-out or tilt. Tilt adjustment is critical, both left/right and vertical...Tracking is critical, but the relationship between the blade and the guide rollers is the most critical part of a bandmill. Get it right and have a smooth working mill, wrong and endless frustration and angst...
Pineywoods, there is enough loose holes that I should have full adjustment in all directions. After I get the tensioner installed and am able to tighten everything up we will see how bad it is going to be. When all else fails I will Machine new parts with slotted holes instead of oversized holes and add threaded adjusters where necessary.
The picture was just showing the fact that I put the frame together backwards and had to cut it apart and reweld it properly.
anybody have any suggestions for tach / hour meter for my mill? Walmart has one on their site for $25. looks like a nice unit but no reviews.
Quote from: Crusarius on August 28, 2017, 12:09:28 PM
Pineywoods, there is enough loose holes that I should have full adjustment in all directions. After I get the tensioner installed and am able to tighten everything up we will see how bad it is going to be. When all else fails I will Machine new parts with slotted holes instead of oversized holes and add threaded adjusters where necessary.
The picture was just showing the fact that I put the frame together backwards and had to cut it apart and reweld it properly.
Loose or slotted holes won't be sufficient for what (I think) pineywoods is talking about. You need to be able to make tiny, precise adjustments to the axles of those wheels to get the band tracking correctly. Woodland Mills used to have an excellent manual for their HM126 model downloadable as a PDF. If it's still available, I suggest you grab it and look closely at the section on adjusting the band wheels. There are 2 vertical and 2 horizontal adjusting bolts for each wheel's axle.
I am a sawmill user and not a sawmill builder, but I would take much more than a casual view of pineywood's observations. I would be interested in trying to replicate the basic design of an established sawmill manufacturer such as the sponsors listed on the left. They have discarded and/or improved upon many different ideas to reach their current designs. For example, the bandwheels need the ability for 4 way adjustment (especially the outboard) and the blade guides need the ability for 8 way adjustment. Yes, 8. There is up/down & in/out, that's 4. And then there is horizontal (2) and vertical (2) tilt.
One half, one fourth, and even less bolt turn adjustments are very common and critical when fine tuning the bandwheels and blade guides.
hmmm guess I misunderstood what he was saying. I do have those adjustment pieces ready to go. They just did not make it on in those pictures. I was going to wait till I was ready to tension everything to put them on then.
Just for the record, I am not a sawmill builder, but I have rescued/re-built a couple of bent, broken, abused woodmizers. I am a mill user also, not as much as Magicman, but have passed the 100,000 bd ft mark. No kidding, a change of just a couple degrees of tilt on the guide rollers can make the difference between smooth boards and wavy lumber. The gotcha is all of those adjustments inter act. Changing one may affect another. Take the time to get it set up right and be done with it.
Will definitely pay close attention to your advice. I already have a bunch of the adjusters made up just not on the mill. I still have quite a bit of work to do to have it ready to try to tension a blade.
last night I tried moving it and one of the supports I had it resting on let go and I dropped the frame. Broke the tacks on the adjustable side so I need to fix that tonight. I am not sure if I am ready to full weld yet or not. Think I need to get some nice beefy tacks on it then tension a blade and see how it feels.
I'm a sawmill builder (if that's what I can call myself after one dud and one decent mill). I built the same exact mill you're building, Crusarius. For the record it's a Linn Lumber mill, and I believe it's the larger one, the 1900 which is what I built. The adjustments built into the design allow for every single adjustment needed for a perfect running mill. There are adjustment blocks with threaded adjustments to push the bandwheels around while under tension. The guides are more archaic but are adjusted around with bolts being just snug and tapping with a hammer. The up/down adjust for the guides are threaded adjustment bolts again. I assure you everything is there and it is all absolutely sufficient for complete, accurate and perfect adjustment to make flat, accurate lumber. If I can do it nearly anyone can because I'm certainly nothing special at all. In fact I thought I was somewhat clever up here on my mountain all alone until I joined this forum and saw just how ordinary I truly am. I'm thankful for that slap back into reality. There are some truly clever dudes out there!
It's all in the manuals and booklets I'm assuming you got, Crusarius. Just follow the steps diligently and you won't fail.
Thanks Ox. I have been impressed with some of the little features that for me was an after thought but it was built into the kit.
You are correct it is a Linn Lumber model 1900 36" capacity.
So far I only have 2 complaints. The biggest one being that none of the cuts on the parts I received are square. the other one being the instructions that came with it are, hmm, lets just say not the greatest. It probably doesn't help that I have been doing design work and engineering since 1993. I would have never let those drawings be seen by anyone else if my name was on them.
Yep, they're definitely put up by somebody without the background for such. I'm thinking you have more fab experience than me, or at least can do better work. I'm making straight and accurate lumber with mine. You'll be more than fine. ;)
The guy that sells them now? - you can call him any time for any questions. He was polite and knowledgeable. I think his name is Chris King and he should have given you his number with the kit. If not, let me know and I might be able to round it up for you.
You've already found out but always make sure to put a 90° of some kind of guide on ALL of those parts before tacking. If I had to do it again and just needed to stay with the Linn I would have bought it built already. The headaches of building it just aren't worth it to me anymore.
Before I die I'll own a hydraulic mill. I just need another 20 years or so...
I would say all the cust were off at least 5 degrees. it was obvious just looking in the box.
Does anyone have a set of rollers going to the bottom side of the track? or do you all rely on gravity to hold it down?
Just trying to find some track rollers and not sure what to get, where to look, or how many I want.
I'm not a mill builder but I have read many mill building threads on the Fotestry Forum and I don't recall ever seeing a any type of rollers on the bottom of the track.
I run 2 wheels on the tail end of my mill. Never needed them though... From surplus center I believe they are called a Faultless Wheel.
I think you'd have to get really aggressive to knock that carriage off the track or else have unsuitable wheels.
The wheels on my HF mill have a round-bottom groove. The tracks have a square-cut top. This is a good combination for packing sawdust into the grooves, yet it has never gotten to the point where it came close to jumping the track. You can just make them out in one of the photos in this post (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90230.msg1388859.html#msg1388859).
I guess if I am going to do that I should just use a cheap polyurethane wheel. Lighter cheaper and less likely to rust :)
I was thinking V-groove rollers with either angle iron leg up or piece of 3/8" flat welded to 2x6 box. Decided against laying the angle legs down. When I drop something on the legs down angle it will deform the track and cause a high spot. which will more than likely leave a wave in my cut.
I think it was Ox that made me think about that.
Hot rolled angle comes with a nicely rounded edge. If HF hadn't cut it off square, it wouldn't pack the sawdust in so badly.
V-groove on the typical hot rolled edge (flatbar or angle) will work fine. If you turn the angle so the open side is down and ride on the corner, you're going to need some pretty wide V-grooves, I think.
Grouch that is what I decided not to do. the primary reason is the rollers will be rolling on the flat face of the angle. When I drop something on the edge it will bulge the spot the rollers are riding creating a bump in the track.
I still think V-groove rollers but thinking on the leg of the angle leaving it round.
Don't over think it. These aren't laser cutter machines! It's simple for the best results - take angle iron and lay it so it looks like an L. Make your rollers ride on top of the L. It's a rounded over edge. If you're worried about packing sawdust into your wheels, put a piece of plastic there to scrape the track off ahead of the wheel. Even if you happen to drop a steel tool on the edge of the track and ding it you won't notice the difference in the lumber. It's just not an issue. If you absolutely need to fix a ding, simply put a tack weld there and file it down or something. Easy peasy.
You only need 4 rollers. Gravity holds it on. The only time you need to keep it forced down on the track is if you're transporting on a trailer, then just strap it down tight so it can't move or bounce.
I made mine as simple as possible so I can minimize breakdowns. If you want a fancier machine all the power to you - it's your mill and your money! :laugh: I'm here to help if you need simple and basic ideas. Hopefully that's a help to you. :)
I have been studying the pictures I took of your mill quite a bit lately. I am definitely over thinking a lot of stuff.
Today I started thinking about making some 3/4" threaded delrin rods to take up slop in the tube over tube connections for the blade adjust and the height adjust.
Sometimes I am way to critical about stuff. But I sure do like tight smooth operating tools and machinery.
Next you'll be making dovetail slides with gibs so you can machine the wood instead of milling it. ;D
Give 'im another smack upside da haid, Ox.
like this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/thecfarmsupport.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1351783746)
This is made by Thomas in Brooks Maine.
Note the wheel,upper left. That metal in front of the wheel is just laid there to keep the head form moving when the wind is blowing.
A bunch more pictures in my gallery from past threads.
They have like an "L" that rides under the track to keep it from falling off. I was moving right along sawing and the next log was closer than I though and the head rode up in the air and off the track.So it's a good idea to have something under the rail to keep it in place.
Thanx cfarm that was my concern. hitting something and having it jump or doing something stupid and losing it. The head is going to be a lot heavier than I originally was hoping. not something that would be easy to put back on the tracks without equipment.
I can't tell but is that wheel V-groove or U-groove?
Be sure you have stops at each end of the track. That head and carriage act like a big sail and it will roll off the track even if you're not around. Somewhere on here a member tells of getting some injuries (bruises and strains, if I remember correctly) due to not having stops on the tracks.
[edit:]
A link in support of what thecfarm said above:
Sawmill head came off the rails while running. (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,76459.0.html)
That's one of them wheels that can ride on the angle iron either way you want - on the edge or on the v.
No need to make anything extra for wear on the tube-in-tube sliding for the up and down. There's adjust blocks built in to the kit with threaded rods to adjust the mill head-to-carriage angle to get the blade parallel to the bed, lengthwise, before setting up your guides.
Trust me - everything is thought of. It's a simple, rugged, well thought out design. When one starts changing around a proven design there is usually hiccups involved and things get dragged out. Change one thing and something else will be different and you may not catch it until the end of the build. Then you might have to go all the way back again. It's hard to tell if you haven't built several of that particular design so that you know it intimately.
Remember what I said? About making some kind of sliding or rolling support for above the adjustable arm? I still stand by that. It's the only thing I'd change or add to the design and by doing this AFTER everything else is built will ensure you don't get wadded up in what I said in the previous paragraph.
The Linn Lumber mill has stops at the ends of the tracks so it can't roll off.
I once had a big wind come up and slammed the mill into a log I had on the deck. Bent the hell out of the adjustable arm. Now I wrap a short chain around the leg at the front so it can't roll around again. With the tarp on it's like a big sail and it rolls easy. That was that microburst at around 70 mph earlier this year that knocked out power here for around 4 days.
I was actually planning on putting a simple brake on the carriage that was connected to the throttle lever. that way when I let go of the throttle the brake grabs the rail. But I will also have solid stops at both ends. I would cry if after all my hard work the head rolled away.
Ox, I have not forgotten about the extra arm support.
I only bought the basic kit. so its just the saw head. I am doing the rest on my own.
When I was building my mill I had my weld helmet on and my head rolled away.
i got trapped between my garage door and the head. The head broke out all the glass
on my garage door. This was before I had my stops put on. I was wondering what hit me.
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 30, 2017, 07:25:38 PM
When I was building my mill I had my weld helmet on and my head rolled away.
i got trapped between my garage door and the head. The head broke out all the glass
on my garage door. This was before I had my stops put on. I was wondering what hit me.
I've never had my head roll away or break things and don't think I want that particular experience. You wouldn't happen to be on speaking terms with Marie Antoinette, would you?
Just pickin' at you, Kbeitz. I read your comment completely out of context ("Recent posts") and had to do a triple take to figure out what you were talking about. Glad the old edger didn't behead you!
grouch thats the same way I read it :)
I should not laugh cause I have done stuff like that plenty of times.
I am definitely planning on a parking brake for the carriage when I let go of the throttle. Especially after demoing a norwood that was setup on a very slight angle and the wind kept blowing it up the incline then letting it slam back to home
I now have a cable that pulls the carriage along.
It wont move unless the motor tell it to do so...
I think it's the "u" style. It's not sharp like a "v"
Kbeitz that is a future upgrade.
So what is the width of everyones beds? Do you ever wish you went wider. The plans show 41" for the rails but I am really thinking about making it 48" wide.
I keep thinking this would be real nice to double as my steel pickup trailer. Since the rails will be 24' long that just happens to be the length of the steel I get. if I make the bed 48" wide I can fit a 4x8 of whatever on it to. Any thoughts?
I am kinda worried that 48 may be a little annoying to stretch over during clamping and turning.
Yes,you could make it wide. But that might make more problems. Yes,you can saw wide,but do you have the equipment to turn those big logs?
I thought about a wide mill,came real close,than I thought about turning those big ones. :o I sold my big trees to a sawmill.
That is definitely a good point I did not think of. I just had a random thought about making some slip in width extenders for when I need to pickup 4x8 material.
I was also just watching the linn lumber video again and realized that the log clamps are quite a ways from the edge of the bed. That makes a pretty large section that is not used at all. Guess it would be a nice safe place to lay tools when not using them. as long as they are really thin :) Scratch that idea.
Go with the 48"...
I do like the idea of a little extra space to roll logs and little less chance of rolling them off. But I do not like the extra stretch idea.
Crap, why do I always have to overthink everything?
Big logs are a lot of work. My track is 30-5/8 inches (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90230.msg1394176.html#msg1394176) outside to outside. I've wished several times that it was about 6 inches wider simply to have that much more room between the posts. That would be more than the biggest log I'm ever likely to deal with -- anything over 24 inches is a pain to manipulate with my equipment.
Consider the consequences of each inch added to track width before you decide. That's not overthinking; that's prudence.
Maybe I need to mockup a bed and try loading and unloading and rolling some logs?
Think it may take to much time and effort to do that though.
I think it will be worth the effort to get the bed width right. Maybe mocking up is too much effort and still not indicative of true battlefield conditions. Dogging for the second and third sides can be tricky depending on your log turning mechanism. If you're turning with a cant hook and working by yourself you have to grow and extra arm sometimes and it's critical to get the first cut square to the backstop. Extra eyeballs come in handy too. Maybe you can go check out some other mills close to you. Do you have the dimensions on some of the commercial band mills as a reference? They've worked it out. It also makes a difference if you're using hydraulics.
There was some discussion a ways back about what shape groove for the pulleys your mill is riding on, with respect to sawdust accumulation. I don't think the solution in the picture below is unique, but it sure works well and couldn't be any simpler. These are square grooves and the top of the rail is milled flat and there's no issue with debris build up. I have trouble sometimes when I leave a jack handle laying across the track, but I suppose that's to be expected.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39962/Pulley_wiper.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504224163)
It's 3/16 or 1/4 wire rope and it keeps the grooves clean. You can't see the ends in the picture, but they are where you would guess.
Mine homebuilt mill is 48" outside to outside and I haven't wished it was smaller yet longer yes narrower no. Most of the stuff I cut is 14-24".
I had a good size log on mine manual mill. Made the first cut,then turned it with the peavey but could not dog it in. I needed both hands,arms,to hold the log in place. I had to get the wife to dog it in. Once I had it so a flat side was on the mill,I was all set.
As btulloh said,another arm would of came in handy.
It's simple: build the thing 48" because it's what you want for a useful trailer as well as a sawmill track. Any problems you might have with difficulty sawing with the wider bed will be overcome and dealt with with satisfaction knowing that you're doing it this way for a reason and now have a trailer to use as well.
Are you going to modify the saw head to be able to mill 7" wider or keep it the same and simply make the carriage wider?
Leaving the saw head alone. Just making the bed wider. Here is what I came up with last night for the carriage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/carriage.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504276211)
If I choose to make it wider in the future that should be pretty easy. Just need to make the slide portion and maybe the frame longer.
I built mine to fit 158" bands which seems to be pretty standard. So getting them is easy from any blade manufacturer.
Well, I managed to get the sawframe full welded this weekend. Also managed to get the wheels trued up and the blade to run true.
Apparently on a 3 day weekend my brain seems to think at least one of those days needs to be wasted. I had a very hard time getting going and made no progress on sunday.
On monday I had an epiphany. with the pile of steel I purchased on friday there is no way I will be able to flip and move stuff around without a lot of strong help. So Monday I spent the day building a set of bucket forks.
Don't be too hard on yourself about wasting a day. Everybody's brain and body needs a resting day to recharge - that's why God included Sundays!
Bucket forks is a good idea - you'll need them anyway for log handling. Clamp style or chain style? I had a pair rated for 4000 lbs and bent them with the old backhoe. Had to upgrade to 10,000 lb forks. Now the biggest problem is keeping them straight without a spacer bar between them.
I would say forklift style. but they will have a chain tensioner clamp inside the bucket. I will post pics sometime today.
What do you guys think about using these with a large for my carriage rollers?
Use bearing with a large washer to make the groove?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/carriagewheel.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504628598)
Quote from: Crusarius on September 05, 2017, 12:24:20 PM
What do you guys think about using these with a large for my carriage rollers?
Use bearing with a large washer to make the groove?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45059/carriagewheel.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504628598)
Gotta watch... Most flange bearing are light duty...
maybe I just need to get a normal bearing and use 2 plates?
shoot. I need the plates to rotate with the bearing. that not going to work.
here is a link to my bucket forks.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,97665.msg1507985.html#msg1507985
Where should I get a trailer axle? I have a pile of jeepaxles laying around but really don't think I want something that heavy and with a differential. UNless I can power it.
Hmmmmm that could be fun self propelled sawmill? :)
You can typically find boat trailers cheap. Some have pretty heavy axles. Kbeitz has a boat trailer under his mill. I pick up a tandem axle 7500lbs boat trailer for hauling logs with (free!). Needed some modifications but the price was right.
guess I will have to start browsing craigslist. Thanx.
Scrap yards will have them sometimes. As well as axles.
I started an actual build thread located here
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=97853.new#new
I also learned a very valuable lesson this weekend.
When moving your horizontal band saw do not place the cord over the belts unless you take it back off prior to cutting.
I need to put a new cord on the band saw tonight.
I thought this was the build thread. Says so on the label.
it started out to be the build thread but kinda turned into more of an idea thread. Don't forget the full page of talking about the lamborghini pink paint I am going to use :)
I decided to make a new build thread with more details and less fluff :)
in hindsight I may have been better off leaving the build in here but 10 pages of stuff before getting into the build may get boring to some ppl.
You influenced me with you backhoe build. I couldn't let you out do me :)
Round these parts, any thread that's worth its salt at some point will contain some fluff, either that or flatulence. :D :D ;D :D :D
Food before flatulence. Have we done food in this one yet?
Crusarius,
Just pickin' at you. It makes sense for future builders to have that thread start as you did. I just thought it should have a clear, direct reference back to the pink car and flashy critters. :D
I agree completely :) And I am still thinking about that color scheme.
I also agree it needs some fluff but I started getting lost in the fun in this thread.
Besides when I was researching there wasn't a single thread I could find on a full Linn Lumber build. so hopefully this will help a lot of people.
The amount of knowledge and info I have gained from everyone here I would love to give some back.