Heli Loggers

[Jeff]

Did anyone watch that last night on TLC?  I think it was the first episode of a new series and I enjoyed it. They were cutting some huge cedar in B.C. and flying it out 6 miles to the landing. The episode started out with a couple guys hiking in to find the tract marked by Government Timber Surveyors where they had to build a heli pad so a smaller chopper could fly them in and out of the job. 

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv/heli-loggers/heli-loggers.html

Tune in Thursdays @ 10/9 C! Check the schedule for airings.

Episode 1: The Big Wood
Gord and his team of tree climbers begin one of the biggest heli-logging jobs in Canadian history: climbing and topping a grove of prized cedar trees and using a $15,000 per hour Chinook helicopter to fly them.

Episode 2: The Greenhorn and the Beast
The crew has one week to prepare 400 trees before the heavy-lift helicopter's arrival. But after one climber gets hurt and another quits, an already difficult job gets even tougher.

Episode 3: Widowmakers
Gord's crew is set to climb a grove of cedar trees, but after a fellow logger is nearly killed by a falling branch "Widowmaker", they take whatever steps they can, from the superstitious to the practical, to make sure they stay safe and on schedule.

Episode 4: Heavy Lifting Required
The testosterone filled world of heli-logging gets a new look when Gord and his crew team up with a female heavy-lift helicopter pilot in order to harvest a block of trees.

Episode 5: The New Greenhorn
Gord hires a new Greenhorn to help work on an eco-sensitive logging job. But when the job starts to fall behind it becomes clear this is one hire he and the team may regret.

Episode 6: Racing to the Finish
The Clowhom job continues with Robyn leading the charge to finish the job on time and without disturbing the eco-system below. They work feverishly to complete the job and fly home, which despite many obstacles they manage to do. As soon as the get home, Gord gets a call from the Heavy-Lift helicopter company. Because of helicopter scheduling needs, instead of the helicopter arriving in 3 weeks to yard the Clowhom trees as planned, it is coming that very day. Gord knows that you are only as good as your last job and he does not want the helicopter to work without someone from his team there. Robyn and Cleaver hurriedly fly back to Clowhom to make sure that the crucial standing stem process gets done, and done well.

Episode 7: Big Wood, Big Finish
The enormous Brittain River job proposed a life-altering question for Gord Closson, "Can SCSS make it as a successful logging company with a conscience?" They have one more block to finish before Gord answers that question. Due to the traveling distances that the helicopters have to fly, the personal financial risk and the intricacies of logging big wood with minimal damage to the forest, this has been the biggest job for Gord yet. Supervisor Aaron Steen heads in to build the final landing pad, making it possible to log this last block. Unfortunately, the boys get off to a rough start. They are shut down on the hill because of helicopter problems. Then Gord and the team are forced to make up for the lost time in order to close the job out. In the end, Gord goes back to the drop zone, and must answer the big question as to whether the Brittain River job was overall as big a success as he hoped.

Episode 8: Gord to the Rescue
Another logging company has clear-cut an area, causing an environmental problem. They have left a huge area of trees exposed to wind, which not only can cause environmental problems for thousands of trees, but also could lead to eco-contamination of a stream that serves as the water source for the nearby town of Sooke. Gord and his team must Windfirm (climb and top trees to displace wind exposure and keep limbs from falling into the stream) the exposed trees. But when they start to fall behind, which could cause Gord to lose money, Gord has to put on the spurs and try to get them back on track.

Episode 9: Here Comes the Snow
Gord and his crew work year round. That means in the cold, the rain, and even the snow. And now there is plenty of it. They are in the middle of one of the biggest snow falls in Vancouver Island history and Gord, Kurtis, Robyn, and The Beast have a job to climb and top 50 trees in just two days. The only question is will they be able to do it?

Episode 10: The Grande Finale
Gord, The Beast, and Robyn have just 2 days to climb, top and jig, a block of trees before the Vertol helicopter arrives. Again, they are fighting cold temperatures and mounds of snow in order to get the job done.

[SwampDonkey]

Did anyone watch that last night on TLC?  I think it was the first episode of a new series and I enjoyed it. They were cutting some huge cedar in B.C. and flying it out 6 miles to the landing. The episode started out with a couple guys hiking in to find the tract marked by Government Timber Surveyors where they had to build a heli pad so a smaller chopper could fly them in and out of the job. 

Been there, done that. Only it ain't government, it's consultants on contract. ;D

[Tillaway]

SD, you had to do that. I'm sorry, glad I missed it. ;D

[SwampDonkey]

A good many of those heli logging sites got turned down after the goobermint spent money to lay it all out for sale including: cruise, marked falling boundaries, pre-harvest prescriptions and site class, creek surveys, gully assessments, and landing sites.  Most of the time we had different divisions within the firm for different tasks. Quite often folks rotated jobs so they were not stuck doing one thing all the time. Toward the end we finally convinced the higher ups that if you lay out the wood, you cruise it , you design the plans and prescriptions and maps instead of bringing people from outside into the middle of a project. It was just more efficient in getting the job done.

It wasn't all that difficult to find the blocks, the layout guys and the heli pilots that flew them in and out of the swamps took the fallers in. There were well marked trails from the helipads in the swamps to the blocks. The layout folks went in with the crew most times to show them sites for logging heli pads if a natural ground break was not sufficient to land the crew on in the middle of the block. Usually a Jet Ranger or Hughes 500 was the taxi, better to have the Hughes 500 (the "angry egg" we called it) more lift power. ;) I saw many Heli pads that the Jet Ranger never had enough guts to haul more than passengers, plus the pilot.

Did I ever say how much I hate post harvest surveys in those %$#&%@ heli logged sites. Swimming in 4 feet of slash. Yes dispersed, but them big limbs cross piled ain't fun. :D

[Tillaway]

Those 500's sound like a jet powered weed eater.  Never liked the Rangers, the difference between a 500 and a Ranger; 500's have 4 wheel drive.

[Raider Bill]

Just a dumb question but how do they make $$$?

Assuming they are cutting the same kind of tree anyone else is and have the same overhead plus the chopper expense with such a small amount of timber as opposed to the AXE men type operation where thay seem to bring out way more logs?

Boy that doesn't even make sense to me. Wish I had paid more attention in english class......................

[Jeff]

Last night, they were not cutting the same kind of tree everyone else was. They were cutting high value timber. They said the chopper cost 10,000 an hour.  At least one of the trees they cut was valued at 50,000. 

What was unique for me watching last nights show was how they did it. Trees that figured less then the total lifting weight capabilities (20 some thousand lbs, I forget exactly) of the helicopter were not cut down. They were climbed, limbed and topped. Then the cutter would come down and make what you would normally call felling cuts, but these were not. They cut the tree enough to keep it standing, but enough that when the helicopter grapple latched onto it, it could be snapped from the stump and flown out full stem. 

[Raider Bill]

I missed the show but have it on DVR for later.

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, Raider Bill they are high value trees. Back in the mid 90's a 200 + foot sitka was a $20,000 tree. If they are logging yellow cypress (Alaska Cedar), up in the mountains, they are gold and mostly export. People were cutting shake blocks back then where I worked up on the Charlottes. They were $800 per m³ of cedar / cypress, lifted by chopper. A m³ is around 39 inches per side. I seem to remember the bundles were 8 feet high and 8 feet long, my memory is kind of foggy on those dimensions. They were scrounging this stuff off old clear cuts. Those Islands are north of Vancouver Island and the same forest region. Only no fir of any ilk on the Charlottes and a lot nicer walking unless down on the coastal plains with all that darn salal vines. Hardly a devil's club though, anywhere up there. 

[SwampDonkey]

Trees that figured less then the total lifting weight capabilities (20 some thousand lbs, I forget exactly)

Yup, 20,000 lbs.

As to the rest, it might be some "show boating" involved, not sure. I'm not sure Work Safe BC is gonna like that snatch and run technique. I've never seen that done, usually a support chopper helps bundle a load that will be heli-craned later to the landing. But if these were red cedar, they can be 12 feet through on the but, so I don't know how long that is for green red cedar to be under 20,000 lbs. Well I can estimate it,  an 8 foot (mid diameter) on a 16 foot log is almost 24,000 lbs according to the forum toolbox. Sounds like fun, as long as someone else is doing it. :D

[Reddog]

Here is the same crew on you tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iae7xtEcJkU

[thecfarm]

Marked it on the calendar and still forgot it.  >:(

[Reddog]

Here is Gord's crew building pads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45RDZ3owtvY

[WDH]

I found the show interesting and I plan to watch it next week.

[ohsoloco]

Caught some of that last night    If I recall correctly the helicopter ran $15,000 an hour, and could haul 22,500lbs.  The break even haul was around 13,500lbs.  Even thouse logs from that huge cedar were well below the limit, and some of the others were in the 11,000lb. range.  Didn't catch the end, but I assume it was profitable  ???

[semologger]

I liked it i caught the 11oclock show. Enjoyable watching something different. I fell out of my deer stand this year and its only a 14 footer. No way am i climbing a tree like them guys. Well me and the stand both came down the same time.

[L. Willey]

Just a dumb question but how do they make $$$?

Assuming they are cutting the same kind of tree anyone else

yes they are cutting the same species as anyone else. 
looked like hemlock, douglas fir, white fir, and red cedar. 

as to how they make money, im not sure.  maybe since theyre creaming it, they dont loose time messing with the little stuff.  but it still seems like the profit margin would be pretty close.

[semologger]

One tree $50,000 dollars sounds pretty good to me. Plus how many thousand dollar trees were the rest. Higher grade timber than Axmen i think. ;)

[WH_Conley]

After watching "Saw for Hire", I was really impressed with these guys.

[Paul_H]

Neither the Douglas Fir or the Red Cedar would be that valuable.A high grade Fir log was only $220-250 per cubic metre a few years ago(2004) I'm out of the loop since we sold out but prices are still in a slump.
Heli logging done around here in the past couple of years was high graded,leaving Hemlock and lesser grades of Douglas Fir and Red Cedar to rot in the bush.Heli logging is fun to watch but I think in most cases,conventional logging is a better way for communities,workers and forest.We had some areas in our chart that were considered heli logging only because of access and esthetics.The pros and cons were weighed and we decided to go ahead and have the area layed out for highlead.Our road costs were reasonable in spite of the steep rocky terrain and the strictly enforced forest practices code(in 1997)
The pros to us was our base crew of 15 men all living in the area,were able to work a few extra months as opposed to a out of town crew coming in and out in 2 weeks or so.Another was access for our silviculture work involved crews with pickups instead of the high cost of flying in with choppers.Same with future layout by the engineers.
Blending conventional logging and heli works good for the bigger companies to play around with the numbers to lower stumpage appraisals.There are places that heli logging is one of the best ways to access out of reach wood but like anything,it can be abused.

I've been around here a long time and can and will show where sound fell and bucked is laying in the bush to rot in heli blocks because of economics.Last year we built road through a older heli block to develop highlead blocks well beyond the heli blocks.It wasn't rough roadbuilding ground either.

[sawguy21]

TLC was advertising it all week but the local provider put something else on in that slot last night.  >:(  Here, the mills pay taxes or stumpage on each tree cut. Heli logging only pays because they get a lower rate than ground logging but they still have to really hustle. The turn has to be under 3 minutes so they were not flying 6 miles. Still, it is the only way to harvest on very steep slopes (that is not fun) or when there are serious environmental issues like riparian management areas i.e. fish bearing streams. If everything goes well and the weather holds, a chopper will out produce a skidder or high lead operation with far less impact on the surrounding ground.
The company I worked for did some on the coast but they went in to pick up the smaller stuff the big boys left behind. Our ships, Sikorski SI61's, could only pull half as much as a Skycrane. Most of our work was in smaller timber, the big kids could not pull enough in one pick to make it pay.
Swamp referred to 'snatch and run'. It is referred to as selective stem logging and usually involves taking out a single high grade tree in a mixed stand. Diseased trees can also be removed this way but it is a very expensive process due to low production. Vancouver Island Helicopters developed a really neat grapple for this.

[Paul_H]

Heli logging was paying twentyfive cent(two bit) stumpage compared to conventional that was paying an average of $10 per cubic metre(our numbers)

Still, it is the only way to harvest on very steep slopes .

Roy,
in theory,that is what heli logging is supposed to be for,logging on steep inaccessible ground but it's being abused. Like I mentioned in my last post we are building roads now through ground that was heli logged 5 years ago.Those pics I posted a couple years ago of heli logging was not far below the road we were on.I know the guys that fell it and they walked in and out.They were wondering why it wasn't roaded.These guys have been around the block a few times and understand what kind of ground it takes for conventional.
The trouble with high grading,apart from wasting a valuable resource is it can make it uneconomical for future harvesting.

My dad told me they saw the same thing in the early 1950's when the railroad logging shows moved out.Before they left,they reached way up the hills with the cold deckers,sometimes even a double swing to the trackside so when the truck loggers moved in,they had miles of "dead"ground to build road through.

Heli has it's place,I'll say it again and the crews are talented and organised.My issue isn't with the crews it's with the managers in the public and private sector.

[Paul_H]

I tried to find the blocks I mentioned with Google Earth and link them here but the photos appear to be at least 2 years old.A few of the older blocks that are now greened up show up as freshly logged.

[SwampDonkey]

The blocks we marked out were over 65 % and if not steep, quite gullied and often boulder fields. Many blocks were later 'deferred' after all the cards were in because they were deemed too sensitive a site to log. They all had large timber though, consisting of cedar, amabalis fir (pacific silver or sometimes known as balsam), sitka, and hemlock, sometimes cypress at the top, but mostly below the cypress tree line. Just as logging has created some waist in the woods at times, I've seem huge cypress bolts 3 feet on the but left in the woods after 'destructive sampling' the Ministry of Forests contracted. Beautiful cypress logs just laying there.  >:(

One assessment is residue and waste surveys on the cut blocks. They have a formula I think they base on the cruise and scale and apply it to any merchantable timber left on the block. I remember one big spruce found near a landing one time represented $10,000 in fines for waste. We even had to root through burn piles for waste. It wasn't so bad on yarded sites, but heli was nasty. Thank goodness I only did the yarded sites and not too far to walk off a road.

[snowman]

The show did a good job of capturing the financial stress involved. It cost so much to fly logs that every second counts, everyone works at a dead run. The owners always at the landing wringing his hands and sweating bulletts. One thing made me scratch my head though. Why did they leave the 3000 lb grapples on to get the logs on the ground? Seems if they choked those logs they could have risked stretching them out a few feet. Moday morning quarterbacking, great fun. :D

[DouginUtah]

I'll probably regret asking this (since it will show what I know about logging) but here goes....  :D

Why is it necessary to climb and top the trees?

Why not leave the tops on and cut them off when on the ground. Wouldn't the branches reduce the chance of damage when the bole hits the ground?


P.S. I watched the show.

[sawguy21]

My boss wanted to use the grapple exclusively to save on manpower but often they could not get a full turn on a single pick because of the way the logs lay. Since then at least one multi pick grapple has been developed but I have no idea how it works. Choking is more flexible but is labor intensive and DanG dangerous.
Doug, the main reason is safety. The tops are removed to keep them from whipping back and snapping off as the tree falls. An added bonus is less waste weight coming into the landing.

[Jeff]

Doug, they were not felling the trees for the most part, but leaving the bole stand, almost cut through.

By removing the top, and much of the top weight of the tree, I suspect you reduce damage if you were felling them. First, you will have much greater control of where they go without the tops, and second, the tops on the ground can act as a cushion. I know the old redwood fellers would actually build "landing pads" for the giants to fall on to reduce damage by felling cushion trees and piling brush in the area the tree would impact.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah some of the big red cedar would fly apart even before hitting the ground because of the spiral twist to the grain. Sometimes they just dynamited them, they were going to fly apart anyway, might as well stand back instead of beside it. ;D  So just think of the pour bugger near one of those things if left to fall whole. It would be gang busters for a while. :D

[Tillaway]

There was a presentation at the Oregon Logging Conference several years back from VIH regarding the single tree snap it off the stump harvest.  The speaker there after showing some really cool films about the process basically said "I know, there is no way you afford to this in the US".  That was before he took the first question.

I had a helicopter thinning a few years ago using a K-Max.  It was sized perfect for the wood.  They single picked the biggest logs with the grapple and the brush crew would set chokers for the rest.  The brush crew also would build turns for the grapple later by choking two logs together and marking the log to grab with the grapple with paint.  The pilot picked up the painted log and an extra would hang from the choker.

[Frickman]

I watched the show, and thought it was fairly good. I could do without all the drama though, real or made up. Around here in our hardwoods if we only took the biggest and best it would be called high grading. Maybe it's different in British Columbia.

[Paul_H]

Nope,it's called high grading here too.

[SwampDonkey]

I never saw heli logging done as a cherry picking  were we worked. A block was all harvested and any waste was billed as well. Maybe the formula has changed and the waste is cheaper to leave then the cost of the fine. I'm not quite sure any more how the formula was applied back then.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/dqc/w&r.htm

[SwampDonkey]

Found this from the waste manual:

For cutblocks with harvesting, a waste rate is calculated for the cutblock using the weighted average stumpage rate charged for the sawlogs from invoices issued for a twelve-month period in respect of timber harvested under the applicable timbermark. The twelve-month period ends the month after the month that primary logging was completed for the cutblock. Remaining areas of standing timber within the cutblock, that are left unharvested at the expiry, surrender, termination or cancellation of the cutting authority, would be waste billed.

The grade profile for the waste is taken from the cruise compilation for the cutting authority. Multiply the percentage for each grade, by species, times the total volume of that species to determine the volume for each species/grade combination.

Waste rate = Total Sawlogs Stumpage Billed / Total Volume Billed

Standing Stem Harvesting

Standing stem harvesting is a new logging method which utilizes a helicopter to selectively log components of a forest stand. Trees selected for harvesting are based on the licensees’ pre-determined requirements (e.g., species, diameter, value).
Once a tree has been selected, the tree is topped off at the height dependent on the tree diameter and the lifting capacity of the type of helicopter used in the operation. At the stump level, the tree is not cut through and enough holding wood is retained to enable the tree to remain standing.
After the tree has been topped and jigged, the helicopter moves into position, and utilizing a grapple attached to the end of a long cable line, lifts the log straight into the air and gently lowers it to the ground nearby.

Since the harvested trees are dispersed individually over a wide area and are inaccessible, it is not cost effective to utilize a plot system for surveying the harvested site. Instead, look-up tables contained in this Appendix are used to derive the waste volumes for each of the tree commonly harvested tree species (Yellow Cedar, Western Red Cedar, Douglas Fir) associated with standing stem harvesting.

To use the look-up tables, licensees are required to determine the average top diameter taken for each species. The intercept of average dbh and the average top diameter indicates the waste volume for one stem, which multiplied by the number of stems, yields the total waste volume for the tree species.

So as I said, that heli-logging method was not used when I worked out there.

More on Standing Stem Harvesting by Canadian Air-Crane

Standing Stem Harvesting Under Development with WCB and FERIC, from Logging and Sawmilling Journal - June 2000

Logging and Sawmilling Journal Article on Standing Stem Harvesting

Weyerhaeuser Canada Ltd presentation on Standing Stem Harvesting

[SwampDonkey]

Of note from the Journal article

"While Cleaver (of Weyerhaeuser-formerly MacMillan Bloedel)  is reluctant to talk about logging costs, the costs are high, but the value of the undamaged trees is also high. Depending on the operation, it could involve helicopter costs of anywhere from $4,000 to $10,000 an hour. While this may sound high, they are able to move 20 stems an hour, and some of those trees are worth as much as $1,000." To put this in a time frame, it was in 2000 that this article was written.

There are some costs/m³ presented in the PDF presentation. Note that this system was first developed for yellow cypress, a very valuable species, as explained in the articles. Then the system was developed further for other tree species.


I remember a cost of $8000 up on the Charlottes, so that is in line with my recollections. Not sure where the $50,000 per tree came from, but I do recall $20,000 per tree (1996 figures) for sitka because these were 8 feet at dbh and 220-250 feet tall. I don't see any trees that big in any of the photos I see here, the cedar don't have near the height of a spruce.

[Raider Bill]

It's inconcieavable to me one tree worth 50K.

But then eveytime I go to the lumber yard it seems all dim lumber is from that very same tree price wise!

[SwampDonkey]

I see logs graded as D (high grade with no knots, large bolts,tight rings, white wood, not conventional dimension lumber) in the sawlog report (averaged for Sept-Nov 2008) was $430.67m³ for cypress and $333.21 for cedar, and $385.71 for spruce. That's the top stuff.

Grade B (Peeler logs) Doug Fir was $203.58/m³

For dimension lumber Grade U (low grade-Utility) it was $46.32 for cedar, 41.03 for cypress, and $43.99 for spruce. For Grade K (mid grade) it was $185.26 for cedar.

The Grade D was 10 % of the volume of those species, Grade U was 36 %,  and Grade K was 10 % of the volume reported.

A m³ is 1 cubic meter = 423.776001 board feet (got that off Google)

So the top cypress are a little better than $1000/MBF.

[SwampDonkey]

Just trying to put those numbers into context here. Hypothetically speaking, you could potentially get 2 - 16' Grade D cypress logs from a 30 inch @ DBH tree and 100 foot tall, coming in at 1000 bf, then maybe an F with 130 bf (@$293.91/m³)  and a couple U's coming in at 85 bf. Tally that up.

1000 bf Grade D = $1000

130 bf Grade F = $90

85 bf Grade U = $8

Total $1098 for a 30 inch DBH cypress tree, sounds like what Weyerhaeuser was saying. You don't get a lot of cypress over 30 inches any more, might be a pocket here and there. They use Scribner's volume equation in BC. That $8 top is probably left.

Anyone know how much volume in a 8 ft DBH and 220 foot sitka (that's with 20 feet off the top missing for argument sake), so merchantable height. Then multiply by $910/MBF so we can get current value (fall 2008), which isn't going to be exactly true because the last log isn't going to be high grade D.

[Jeff]

They mentioned in the show about one of the uses for the $50,000 tree was for instruments.

[SwampDonkey]

They probably were Sitka spruce then Jeff, and that would be specialty market not given in the sawlog bulletin. And again cypress export would fetch a lot more than the domestic market price. But again, as Weyerhaeuser said they are probably mostly $1000 trees because those high value specialty trees would be like me searching for bird's eye. You could land into a pocket of it, then few and far between so you have a lot of $1000 trees before you get to the $50,000 one. I doubt the loggers are getting that money, that's only a $50,000 tree after it went through the value added steps to give it it's high value. ;)  I can't think that the BC government would let anyone take just the cherries. There is a lot of hype in those TV shows, just wait until they do a show on searching for figured woods on a standing tree. I can see it now and don't want to think about it. :

[Jeff]

They said Red Cedar and the way it was eluded to that the B.C. Government was the one that picked the Cherries.

[SwampDonkey]

Interesting, wish I could see the show so I could separate facts from TV fiction.  ;)


From the BC Forestry Innovation Investment website I found this:

"Red cedar is also a good choice for musical instruments due to its superb acoustic resonance properties."

Never heard of western red cedar being used for instruments before. A fellow might learn something once in awhile. ;)

[urbanlumberinc]

This stuff is not your run of the mill timber, it's old growth.  As we all know, there's not a whole lot left.  These logs are not going to the local sawmill to get cut up into fence pickets or decking, this is niche market stuff.  I'll venture a guess the majority of the wood ends up in Japan or Germany. 

[SwampDonkey]

[The following is from: Coast and Marine Planning Branch (MSRM), HELI-LOG DROP ZONES (July 2002)]

I found some numbers from an economic study that suggested a heli drop zone supports an average of 25,000 m³ of volume. Stumpage is $2-4 a m³. They estimate cost of $35,000 per ha for a land drop value and up to $50,000 per ha for a water drop. A heli drop zone permit is $250 annually, license of occupation fee is minimum $500/yr and calculated based on 7.5% of license value, lease with dry land sort is $500/yr minimum based on 8% of lease value.

"The prescriptive formula for a tree-to-truck heli-log appraisal (cost) estimate is:

$/m3 = 68.610 +3.73(D) +0.0337 (Hembal %)

where:

D = one-way average horizontal flight distance in km from the setting to
the drop zone

Hemal % = % of hemlock and balsam species in the cutting authority

This prescriptive formula, for a tree-to-truck cost estimate does not allow for a "de-bundling"
of the costs of the component phases or activities including the drop zone component of the
heli-log operation. On the basis of a 1.5 kilometer flight distance and a Hemlock Balsam
species composition of 50%, the tree-to-truck estimate would be $75.89/m³. The yarding
phase (aerial flight) represents the most significant component of this aggregate cost
estimate.

We estimate inputs (costs) for the heli-log drop zone component to be in the range of $10/m³
and $12/m³ for water and land drop respectively – this in the range of 13 – 15% of the
aggregate tree-to-truck estimate."

North Coast, around the Charlottes and Prince Rupert areas, has a cap of 35% (350,000 cubic metres of timber a year, source Federation of Labour) of volume for export.

[The following Source: Federation of Labour]

"4.7 million cubic metres of logs were exported in 2005, 6 % of the total harvest."

"On Vancouver Island,  nearly 15 percent of the logs
harvested is exported"

"the biggest market for all these logs in 2005 appears to
be the United States (58 percent).....Asian
countries were next in line with 33 percent of the exports headed
across the Pacific."

"MacMillan Bloedel, was sold to US-based Weyerhauser
in 1999, which immediately began accelerating the export of logs
from private lands to its home base in the United States......during a corporate
restructuring in 2005 driven by the US head office, the firm was
sold again, this time to Brascan, a huge investment firm based in
Ontario. 

Prior to the sale, the Liberal government agreed to remove a major
section of the private lands from the Tree Farm License. This
effectively removed the trees from provincial regulation for
Allowable Annual Cut and for export controls.

Brascan moved quickly to divide off the company. Creating two
firms, the first known as Island Timberlands has control over the
cutting of trees and has no operating plants on Vancouver Island.
The company acquired 225,000 acres of private lands (recently
removed from provincial control) and Crown Lands with an annual
cut rate of 3.6 million cubic metres.....

The future of this company is heavily orientated to log exports."

"In its 2006 first quarter report, TimberWest declares that it
generated over $50 million in revenue by exporting 422,000 cubic
metres of logs to Asia and the United States. That works out to
$119 per cubic metre. In comparison, TimberWest generated $35
million by selling 467,000 cubic metres to the domestic market.
That works out to only $76 per cubic metre."

[Frickman]

I watched the show again last night. It was ok, I like seeing the equipment and how they do things. I could do without the bleeped out swearing though. Don't these guys know they are reflecting poorly on the industry?

I know now for certain that alot of the drama is fabricated, as some of the numbers didn't add up. There were seven trees out of four hundred that needed topped when the boss showed up on his white horse, or rather in his white helicopter, to save the day. They had three guys and several hours to do the job. They were finishing up when the helicopter was flying over them and they were getting hit with rotor wash. Couldn't the helicopter start somewhere else? They didn't say what their turn time was, but let's say it was two minutes. Two minutes times four hundred trees is eight hundred minutes, a little over thirteen hours. Even if they were making one minute turns that's still over six hours. That's plenty of time for three guys to take care of seven trees.

I expect this same type of scenario every week. Overall it's not a bad show though. Not great, but not bad.

[SwampDonkey]

Frickman, it also depends on who your talking to in this business. You want it straight or ?

Glad to see some feedback on the show, don't let me hold anyone back. ;)

[Jeff]

I've worked in the woods and in mills all my life. If you had less bleeping, like it or not, I would guarantee that the dialog was not authentic.

[SwampDonkey]

I agree, even on a thinning crew there are a few false teeth flying, not from being swat in the mouth, but from a guy being tired and fatiqued from working a hard strip and needing to vent. Starts spouting off and the teeth fly out. I seen that one day, and in under a minute that guy was laughing at himself for loosing his teeth. Had a smoke, and in 15 minutes whacking bushes again. :D :D

[Frickman]

Jeff,

I've worked in the woods and mills all my life too. We had one mill in my side yard. Both grandpas had mills, farmed, and logged. If any of their employees cursed the way those guys do he would be fired on the spot. I know I've done it myself. Fired a guy because of his mouth, after several warnings. Right in front of everyone else. If guy smashes his thumb and says "Dagnabbit, I smashed my darn thumb" I'll let it slide. If he swears like those heliloggers, he's out of there. Even if the guy only works in the woods and never deals with customers, I won't have them. My employees represent me and my company both at work and in the community. I can't have a clown like some of those guys tarnishing my image. There are alot of other loggers in my area who think the same way. No drinking, drugs, or swearing, you must be clean cut, or at least presentable, and have some sort of stable family life. You can be single, married, divorced, whatever, I don't care. But you can't be fighting with your girlfriend every night, cheating on your wife, or chase wild women and fight at every saloon in town every weekend. I won't stand for it.

Yes Jeff, it ,makes it more authentic to how some outfits operate. But there are alot of other people out there who aren't swearing up a storm. Plus, when has TV ever tried to be one hundred percent authentic?

[Jeff]

Frickman, I agree with you, but to be honest, what you see on there is how it is around here. whether we agree with it or not. When you have always worked in it, its kinda like hearing punctuation.

[Don K]

I missed the 9 o'clock show so I tried the 11:00 one and dagnabbit I slept through most of it. I did see tonight where American Loggers starts on the 27th on Discovery. I guess we'll have three shows to watch by the first of March. Ax Men 2, Heli-Loggers, and Amer. Loggers. Hope they don't come on the same night. :-\

Don

[Banjo picker]

Im just posting on this thread so I can ear mark it so that if a heads up about a show comes along in time maybe I could catch it.  Hope this techinique is ok.  Tim

[SwampDonkey]

Don't even have to Post Tim, can hit the "Notify" button at the top or bottom of the thread. ;D

[chevytaHOE5674]

Frickman, I agree with you, but to be honest, what you see on there is how it is around here. whether we agree with it or not. When you have always worked in it, its kinda like hearing punctuation.

UP here most of the loggers dialog consists of cussing and swearing. After a while you tune it out and don't even pay attention to it.

[ErikC]

  That's pretty much the way of it on the west coast too. Dad never talked that way though, and he worked in mills almost 30 years. I agree you hardly notice after a short time.

[DouginUtah]

Does anyone need reminding that Heli-logging is on again tonight?

[trentausherman]

It seems to me that they dont get the full value of the trees. I mean they climb up the tree but look how wide the tree is where they top it.  Why dont they climb any higher to get more value of the tree???

[SwampDonkey]

I believe they measure diameter, bore the tree for soundness and measure height (length) to top it off according to lift capacity and most valuable log. It's kind of like bucking veneer if you follow. They use the chopper so the valuable log does not bust up by free falling to the ground as many do. As I mentioned earlier, that top is probably worth about $8. And at $8000 an hour, your 20 logs you yard, better have some value. But, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, this is high grading, pure and simple. This is a new system of heli-logging that was developed mostly for the export market as I see it and from what I've read.

[Radar67]

A lot of where they top the tree may have to do with the weight of the log, the helicopters do have limits on what they can lift.

[Banjo picker]

Thanks SD, I didn't know what that button done. ;D  Tim

[SwampDonkey]

The true title of this thread should be labeled "Standing Stem Harvesting" as this is not the conventional method of Heli-logging. Perhaps it is becoming so. I'm on the other end of the continent and out of the loop, so to speak. I think that this approach to harvesting (high grading) has the potential of inviting trouble from the "greenies" and maybe even a few other stake holders. Just my take on it for what it's worth.

[Clark]

...Never heard of western red cedar being used for instruments before. A fellow might learn something once in awhile. ;)

In the world of acoustic guitars (especially classical guitars) there are two choices:  spruce and red cedar.  They source the spruce from all over the planet (and make up names as they go) and I'm pretty sure the instrument grade red cedar comes only from BC anymore.  I could be wrong but I've yet to see any quality cedar down here.

Clark

[Frickman]

I just finished watching this week's episode. It was OK, those guys climbing those trees have some guts. The production company and narrarator have got to get their act together. They made alot of mistakes throughout.

They kept calling the harvested logs "lumber". I'm sorry folks, but they're not lumber until they go across a mill. Toward the end, when they were going to start flying out the timber, they narrarator said they had to jig the twenty one trees from today and fifteen from yesterday. It was day three, the twenty one trees were from days two and three and the fifteen were from day one, not yesterday.

On previous episodes foresters had gone in and marked the timber in advance. On this job it looked like they got to pick their own trees.

All in all it wasn't a bad show. It surely was alot better than some of their other shows they had ads for during commercial breaks.

[Chico]

I don't care for it they take way too many unnessecary chances I don't know how OSHA lets them run They'd shut us down here in the southeast if we did a fraction of the things they do I will say that was some nice timber reminds of the mahogany ,cedar and some of the andirobia in Brazil biggest I ever sawed down there was 8 ft across 27 ft long cut out out 80% com and better we were cutting countertops for exec desks out of it Beautiful wood
Chico

[SwampDonkey]

I'll bet this is going on at timber lands that the government either sold off their timber licensing or private land the timber company already owned. Without seeing the show it's pure speculation on my part.

[SwampDonkey]

I just read where a log brokerage firm in BC (Probyn Log Ltd) recently sold a yellow cypress log, cut from Vancouver Island,  to a BC business that builds log temples for Asia (this case destined for Taiwan), for $43,000.    The log brokerage firm has been in business for 40 years. Things seem to be a bit tight as far as clients and access to mature timber, since 70 % of the coastal timber is tied up by large licensees. They are always trying to reduce costs and improve efficiencies like anyone else to keep the doors open.

*I do remember meeting a man years ago who built high end homes for rich folks and I do believe he was capable of building these temples. He was of Asian ancestry and married to a friend's niece. They both were from Montreal and moved the business out there to BC. I can't remember much about their names or what he did because I only saw him once and his wife maybe twice in a long time. I do know he was working at the time on a multi-million dollar wood framed home. My friend would talk a mile a minute (because he had a big mouth :D ) and you couldn't here the man or his niece talk anyway. It was a competition to talk around the old fart. :D

Another article says Shanghai is preparing for Expo 2010 by renovating 10,000 apartment blocks, using the BC designed wood truss roofing system to use BC structural lumber.

Only brought it up as the show was talking about logging in BC.

[Kevin]

I see a lot of wasted wood in that process, it's not as "green"  as they make it out to be due to the expense of the operation .
The climbers aren't using a safety line and on most climbs are only relying on a flipline.
They were cutting huge tops with very small arborist saws which is extremely dangerous.
I'd like to see another run though.