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Is this a Magnolia tree, or what???

Started by possumpeg, June 22, 2006, 10:47:57 AM

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possumpeg

I have a tree in my yard in Coastal Georgia (near Savannah) which I have always thought was a magnolia - even though it has never bloomed.  Someone told me recently that it is definitely NOT a magnolia - but couldn't tell me what the heck it is.  It has shiny dark green leathery leaves like a magnolia.  There are several of these trees growing wild in adjacent wooded lots.  They grow quite tall, very similar to magnolia, but none of them ever have blooms or blossoms of any kind.  Can you help me?  ??? I will try to insert photos and hope I am successful.  Thanks! :-\




Pullinchips

Not sure if the camera coloring is off or the leaves are that bright green.  Looks to bright to be magnolia grandiflora to me they have dark green waxy uppers and fuzzy or hairy below (leaves that is). You did not say if the tree retains is leaves in the winter has a fruit etc.  Big leaf magnolia or what your thinking of keeps leaves in the winter does your tree.  There are several types of trees in the magnolia family that have similar leaf structre and characteristics.  Please get come bark pics and under side of leaves.  Nothing is coming to mind except cucumber tree, cant remender in my head what they look like though, these are just mind rambles someone else may know for sure though and im sure they will tell you.  I would guess that it is in the magnoliacea family though.

EDIT also a piture of the overall tree from far enough back to include the top and bottom would show the form
this is really not necessary though.

-Nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

Pullinchips

Also thought of sweet bay magnolia but thought that it had smaller leaves than the pic shows, but leaves are highly variable on all trees.  If the under side is a pale witeish green it probly is sweetbay although that looks like one hell of one though. The problem that still bugs me is that  sweetbay flowers like magnolia grandiflora, described as perfect flowers that are fragrant.  Although smaller than big leaf they are still noticeable flowers 2-4 inches that are white (you would see them).  And it is prevelant in your area.  ?????????????????

I'm drawing a blank ???

-nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

Tom

That looks like Sweet Bay to me.  Unless it has led a harrowing life by being topped when young, etc., Sweet bay will develop a tall straight light grey colored trunk with few, if any, lower limbs.   

They are very prevelant and you will see many of them in the median strips of the divided high ways, like I-95.   They produce a white flower about the size of the palm of your hand. 

possumpeg

Thanks for your replies. Answers to questions/comments:
The leaves are bright green, but not quite as bright as first pictures (camera did it)  :D
The trees never have a blossom or seed pod of any kind.
The leaves are slick on the underside as well as the outside. They stay green all year round. The leaves do fall off (like magnolia leaves) but the tree is never bare.
I have included (1 and 2) pictures of the bark. Also (3) a picture of the underside of the leaf and (4 and 5) pictures of the tree next to my garage which I have pruned from the bottom, and another tree in the "wild" which has never been pruned.






Riles

All the magnolias are monoecious, as far as I know, so if you haven't seen any flowers, that would support the statement that they aren't magnolias.

Pretty easy check for sweetbay, just turn the leaf over. They're whitish underneath.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=334

Other than that, I'm stumped. Maybe you have a mutant strain, a non-flowering magnolia.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

DanG

Yep, that's a Magnolia.  I'd bet my shirt on it.  Looks like the leaves and bark of m. grandiflora to me.  It is obviously a very young tree and probably just hasn't started to bloom yet.  We have one that is about that size, and it has been blooming and fruiting for just a couple of years, but it was stunted because it grew right next to a sizable pine that has since been cut down.  It is about 13 years old.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

possumpeg

Thanks for the replies that you have posted trying to help me identify this tree.  :P  I have always been convinced that these are magnolias - but have never undrstood why they don't bloom. We have lived here 14 years, and the tree was a youngster when we moved in.
Two more questions:
1. Is it usual for magnolias not to bloom for years and years?
2. On the off chance that these in our neighborhood are "mutants": how exactly does that occur?  smiley_female_sign

Riles

The "mutants" comment was more of a joke. Theoretically, you could have a variety of magnolia that had a genetic mutation (occuring naturally) that prevents your magnolia from blooming. Kinda like seedless watermelons and grapes. This would be rare and unlikely. These genes obviously aren't passed on if the plant can't reproduce (the grapes and watermelons are reproduced by hand through cuttings or tricky cross breedings).

The fact that you have more than one tree that doesn't flower leads me to believe it's more environmental than genetic. Some plants won't flower if they're overfertilized, others won't if they're starved for nutrients. Too much water or not enough. I'll have to defer to the experts for magnolias. (If you do indeed have magnolias - we could still be wrong here).
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

Pullinchips

I also was thinking about it being a young tree as Dang said.  But untill the new pics i had no idea if this was a 12ft tree or 40 ft tree?
I would agree with dang that it is a magnolia grandifloria. and it maybe just a young tree not fruiting yet thus no flowers.  Think of an oak tree it may take 25 years to make good acorns in a certain area for a certain species.  Yea i know you can have a water oak in you yard that had them at age 10!  I agree dang you nailed it.

The pics you added really helped, in showing more identifying traits which is important in getting an ID that most will be confident in.

-nate
Resident Forester
US Army Corps of Engineers: Savannah District

Clemson Forestry Grad 2004
MFR Clemson University 2006
Stihl MS 390

SwampDonkey

Just an observers comment, as I often give....

Some of our local nurseries will try to sell a variety of magnolia here every spring. The biggest culprits are these 'Super-sized Grocery Store' chains that have stores all over the continent. I've never seen one ever survive our winters. It would be nice to grow them here, but someone should come down on these individuals for taking advantage of the public trust. Call'm the shrub cops. ;D

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

bitternut

You are 100% right about that SwampDonkey. They do the same thing in Western New York and I suppose every other northern area. They don't seem to have a clue or care about what temp zone they ship plants to. A lot of the stuff in our area comes from the Carolina's and Tennesee. Most can't take our winters. A lot of people just go buy more when they die and don't realize the only mistake they are making is planting stock that is not hardy enough for the zone they are planting it in. I can think of one tractor supply store and a orange box store for a couple that do it.

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