The Forestry Forum

I'm interested in grinding my own flour and cornmeal from wheat berries, beans and corn. I have seen posts from experts like DonP mixed through other threads and thought it would be fun to start a thread about the subject hoping  pros could answer questions from getting newbies started to sharing recipes using your own flour. Both successful and failures

I know it's supposed to be best when ground between stones because heat generated by other methods does affect the quality. I don't want to invest in a big expensive stone mill to start and have a lower cost Chinese mill that seems to crush the grains between textured steel plates. I figured it's a good way to get started.

I have grown zero grains or corn to start with and wondering if there are any good online sellers to get started with to buy the dent corn and wheat berries.  Also wondering what sieve size screens are best for flour, cornmeal,  and grits (yes I said the g word, my wife loves them )

Maybe Tule Peak will chime in also with his  experience of growing of the specialty corn and grinding it. Also hope others that may currently be growing grains and Corn varieties will contribute.  

Seems like commercial flours are headed towards gmo varieties that have high yields in poor conditions along with shelf life and I want to try to make a healthier product with more flavor.  I thought this may be a good way to keep this type of info in one thread about the equipment people are  using, best grains to grow, and products made using home ground flours.

One chapter deeper in the novel doesn't make one an expert :D.

What starts as a passing thought can morph. I got this little mill cause I really wanted the one that comes with buying a creek and waterwheel. My partner mailed me the address of one a couple days ago and its not far as the crow flies :D. Realistically, what I could catch in a pan under the mill the other night as I split it open to clean it, would feed us for a couple of weeks. The other 70 lbs I ground as it was barely loping along and shut off for most of the previous couple of days between demonstrating... I did buy a community sized mill.

Hickory cane and Hickory King are the main bread corns in the mountains. I see them in the seed catalogs, I'll put up a link when I run across them again. I think Johnny's and Fedco They look about like a PTO shaft, not many, widely spaced rows, of large kernels on a slender cob.

I'm dealing with the state right now, or waiting to. I've sent them pics and diagrams and a written description of what I'm doing. It has been long enough since anyone has done it, they don't know what or how to inspect me. I did meet the aunt and uncle of the lady that inspects gristmills in western NC, including the one where I buy grain, so hoping to get a call or email from her.

I'm sifting through a 16 mesh screen on the mill

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/IEM2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1682281832)
 

I have a large colander that is about an 18 mesh screen. When I want grits, I sift the sifted cornmeal through the colander and get grits with about a 1/16" particle size. I'll dig tonight for a pic, there is a grits bolter and elevator that were made for this mill. I've also seen the sifter in my pic modified with 2 screens and outputs for meal and grits, so there's a few ways.

Do be mindful if you motorize I think that is when dust becomes an issue. I was in the middle of grinding a couple of weekends ago. A storm blew up, I kept rolling the door further and further down and then had to shut down and sit there with the rain pouring down. With the humidity that fine dust stuck well to everything where it is easier to blow it out usually... from my vast experience of maybe 500 lbs :D

I'm only going to grind corn on this mill to avoid cross contamination. If it were only personal use it can grind any dry free flowing grain. The biggest contaminants thus far has been cob tips and buckwheat, which, once you've grown buckwheat, you'll have it.

Here's the grits bolter for my mill. It's a rotating hexagonal culvert. The meal drops in from the drag chain elevator onto the fine screen dropping meal out of the first spout. Then fine grits and finally coarse grits, which I think I remember from them is a 14 count mesh.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/GritsBolter.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1692232662)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/GritsBolter2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1692232701)


I was the good husband today and made cornbread while she was at work and I at home. With simple things there is no hiding skill, or lack thereof  :D.

They have a mill locally here in Speerville. They do spelt, corn meal, buckwheat flour, whole wheat, unbleached white, oatmeal. Their corn meal is more of a cereal grind, not fine corn meal for baking unless you cook it. I use their spelt and buckwheat for my pancakes, half and half and baking powder in it. The spelt is not that great for raised bread, it makes it heavy. Great in muffins though. I've not tried their regular flour. These niche flours are pricier than the mainstay flours like Robin Hood and the store brands. Costs 4 x times as much per lb. I'm not sure I'm sold on the cost/benefits. :D

Wow, that is a beautiful mill. The one I am getting is just basically a 1 hp motor with 2 textured plates that supposedly crush the grains. The distance between the plates is adjustable to control the grind. A very high speed grind that probably will have to be run outside  because of dust.

To get started I ordered non gmo organic dent corn, white wheat berries,  and red winter wheat berries from Amazon.  Also have some dried garbanzo beans, red beans, and lentils to try. Looking for a local supplier for other items. This mill doesn't hold volume so should be easy to clean with a little compressed air. I will soon find out.

My wife has some larger mesh screens and I just ordered a 40 and 60 mesh that seem to be popular for flours. The machine is rated for a 40 to 200 mesh grind so not sure about the coarser grits until  I try. Love what you are doing Don. Your postings inspired me to give it a try at my cup at a time level.

SwampDonkey do you have any good books about baking and making items from home ground grain that you would recommend?  My wife makes great breads and cakes from the king Arthur type flour but we understand everything changes and it's not just a simple swap in existing recipes. 

Thanks everyone hope Tule Peak will kick in with information on how his crop of corn turns out and what grinder he gets also.

With a hand quern in ancient times it might take someone up to 4 hours to grind enough meal for the household for that day. The older methods even longer. We have advanced to the point where we are incapable of grinding the most long term storage food at the local level for the first time in recorded history. We cannot actually make our daily bread. Our Emergency Management guy visited with me for a little bit while I was at the fair and he saw it immediately. That little red mill was in every community back in the day. An 8" Meadows is a nice self contained mill using the same stones. They run ~$2700 and are capable of up to 50 lbs/hr so still a pretty serious thing and it would need a healthy closet for it and gear. I wonder if the little brewers roller mills can do anything for flour.

The water powered mills here went from stone to steel roller mills around WWI @rusticretreater (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=57554) will know those better. They were not really high speed. There was a tachometer installed in the mill when the rollers were installed that had the sweet spot highlighted on the dial and an overspeed bell if it started to run away.

That stand of 3 rollers was capable of 6 "breaks" and after each break the meal went up to the sifter with many screens. product left the finest, the other screens decided which set of rollers the flour was going to chute to for its next break.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/rollermillsop.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1681869092)
 

and from there to the sifter to sort and redirect back to the appropriate roller.

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That was making the most light fluffy modern flour possible per bushel, that is what the upgrades were about, chasing our taste for tasty cakes. Transportation became cheaper and there were cheaper grain producing regions and scales. The margin finally squeezed them out.

Anyway, I wonder if there is a small roller mill?  You could dial it progressively finer and hand screen through stacking screens to keep it moving along.

My mill possesses two Bernard & Lees Roller Plants installed somewhere around 1900 and powered by the water wheel.  Another smaller roller mill about 10 miles away was powered by steam.

I'm new at this, so I've been asking a lot of questions and reading for months about milling of corn, specifically for polenta. I have not been able to make a decision on a small grinder for kitchen use, but I'm tending towards the Country Living mill with a motor at a price of $1100. It's just the two of us and we will  be grinding primarily corn but possibly some other grains as well. I'm already into this project (growing the corn, buying a schiller, drying storage bags, etc.) and don't have any results yet. I made a decision yesterday to buy a cheap cast iron corn grinder from Amazon for $47 to see if my corn is all that it's touted to be. If we grind up a little bit, boil it and try some recipes to include breads, traditional fried polenta, corn cakes and a dessert called "Atole de elote", to which I was introduced in Guatemala, we'll go further with a high quality grinder for the kitchen.

A bit on the corn; from reading I selected Floriani because it's supposed to be the best polenta corn. It has an interesting history of being a native heirloom corn from North America that was taken to Italy many years ago and is grown specifically, selectively for polenta making. From reading, I've learned it has a very high protein content compared to other corns, superior flavour and a light pink tint to the meal.

From personal observation, it grows like any other corn. The ears are slightly smaller and I'm getting one to two ears/stalk. The plants are tall, 8-11', with a weaker, brittle root structure compared to a hybrid corn. This means that they blow over and snap off when hit with gusts of wind; such as from a rain storm. I should be harvesting and drying the ears I would say by next month and will be able to calculate yield per 25' row. I did spray at first silk with BT and calcium so my fill in is pretty good and I have no worms. 

Hopefully the stuff is good tasting enough to warrant going ahead ordering more kelp, rock dust, shell dust, fish meal, cotton seed meal and a great deal of compost to add to the garden this winter and push on with developing this corn for the dinner table once or twice a week, year round. My goal is to have a wholesome starch besides wheat, rice, and potatoes. My wife and I are pretty healthy eating out of the garden and the Gulf of Alaska and this is something I would like to further. 

Well, that was timely. I came up for lunch and had mail;
Roberson Mill of Floyd County, Virginia (https://www.dhr.virginia.gov/blog-posts/roberson-mill-floyd-county-virginia-landmarks-register-spotlight/)

I know both historians in this article. Ricky took me through the water mill we worked on and explained how everything worked. Ricky also walked every creek in Floyd county and co-wrote the book on water mills there. It was his uncle is who restored my mill. Mike wrote the register paperwork for the water powered mill I worked on and for the farm museum house we worked on a couple of years ago. And its a good article despite all that.

QuoteFrom personal observation, it grows like any other corn. The ears are slightly smaller and I'm getting one to two ears/stalk. The plants are tall, 8-11', with a weaker, brittle root structure compared to a hybrid corn. This means that they blow over and snap off when hit with gusts of wind; such as from a rain storm.

This has been our experience with small blocks of various dent corns as well, particularly the part about blowing over. We ended up with quite a bit (can't remember the varieties but can look up later) that I had to support with fence posts and wire because every time it rained or the wind blew it tried (or did) tip over. Maybe we should have been hilling it like potatoes? Growing in smaller blocks surrounded by shorter, sturdier corn? We will try again next year and experiment more but not growing any this year.

The only flour I really ground was with grandma's hand powered grinder when I was young, but I have rolled thousands of bushels for cattle feed. We would usually screen any dirty or cracked grain to avoid the discounts at the grain elevator and use the screenings to fatten a few beef. Now that I live in the mountains and have a flowing stream, you guys have my interest with a water wheel :D That, and my dad has around 80,000 bushels of high protein spring wheat in storage that he's waiting to sell when there is a premium for protein ;) Is there a market for packaging and selling wheat farm to table style? We have always just loaded the trucks and hauled it to town, but now that he's retired he might find that fun to do, especially if its at a premium :D

Levi

Quote from: reride82 on August 17, 2023, 02:50:25 PM
The only flour I really ground was with grandma's hand powered grinder when I was young, but I have rolled thousands of bushels for cattle feed. We would usually screen any dirty or cracked grain to avoid the discounts at the grain elevator and use the screenings to fatten a few beef. Now that I live in the mountains and have a flowing stream, you guys have my interest with a water wheel :D That, and my dad has around 80,000 bushels of high protein spring wheat in storage that he's waiting to sell when there is a premium for protein ;) Is there a market for packaging and selling wheat farm to table style? We have always just loaded the trucks and hauled it to town, but now that he's retired he might find that fun to do, especially if its at a premium :D

Levi

I just paid $18 for a 5 pound bag of white wheat listed as
Non-GMO Project Verified Hard White Wheat Berries | 100% Non-Irradiated | Kosher Parve | USA Grown | Field Traced (5 lb Burlap)
And $18 for a 5 lb bag of the same spec winter red wheat from Amazon to play with. I am guessing if he set up and sold online or at farm farm markets he could do pretty  good with people like me looking for sources. Don't know about selling ag products across state lines though.  

  I know nothing about mills and grinding grains (and I can prove it!) but all the open air markets I saw in Africa had little mills with a gas powered engine like on a lawn mower. You'd buy a measure (Different size cans as the sellers did not have scales to weigh anything) and you'd take that to the miller and describe as best you could what you wanted and they'd grind it for a fee. I had some corn meal made that way. I never could communicate well enough with the miller to get him to make me some grits.

   In Guinea many of the mills made peanut butter. You'd take them parched/roasted peanuts and they'd grind it for you. That was one messy operation!

Big one, Happy Birthday Howard!

Any chance you have a market picture with one of the mills there, I'm guessing it is a steel burr mill like 21incher is talking about.

I need to hit some yard sales and pick up a hand cranked sheller. I think for some kids, even 70 year old ones, they would get a kick out of shelling a little and putting it through the mill. 
 

 

Well I found my local Amish store has the hard white wheat berries for a little over a dollar a pound and If I want a 100 pound bag the price drops some. Have some 5 gallon food grade buckets and ordered some gamma 2 lids for them. From what I found wheat berries will last years before grinding and should be used within 4 days after grinding for best results.

Grinder is another  story and I am now getting a Chinese 3000 watt grinder from the manufacturer free to try.  They want a video about it so I agreed to that and hopefully I can buy it cheap in the end if it works well. Biggest problem  is it has a 110 volt 3000 watt draw so I am going to need a special outlet. I just hope fedex doesn't toast it because it's almost a 140 pound box they are shipping.  Also it looks to be a very dusty operation and I know how dangerous flour dust is so going to have to mess with  it outside.  Apparently it can grind from coarse animal feed to fine flour at a pretty high rate so really overkill for our needs. Would love to set something up to barter grinding for things like wheat, corn and other grains in the future and maybe even convince my wife to let me have chickens.  

Hopefully my first fresh ground corn bread next week to start with.

The beast arrived.  Bigger then I thought it would be. 4hp motor but only 110 volts. Big dent in it but definitely wasn't caused by shipping so I guess it was a second. Beggars can't  be choosers. 
Can't believe fedex delivered a 140 pound box and my driver thought it was over the limit. Just a couple textured plates to crush the grains I guess. Also an auger to make them small enough to fit between the grinding plates. Don't know what this type of grinder is called. 50 amp breaker with a 12 gauge cord seems to be common core math.  Now the fun begins after I figure out how to wash everything and find some heavy wire.  

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/20230819_141658.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1692482133)
 
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I hope it works out well for you.

Thanks Ray.  This is my first experiment that my wife is more excited then me. She is printing out recipes and just started a sourdough starter. My oldest granddaughter developed a gluten allergy after out great granddaughter was born and hoping to get her into alternative flours also. I am only  doing it for good corn muffins but my wife thinks it's for her ;D.

Cool!

I would call that a steel burr mill. I think typically a coarse to medium grind is what they are used for so it'll be interesting to see if it will do flour. They can also do wet grinding so it is the mill of choice for making corn masa from hominy for tortillas.

More like 2.5-3 hp I think from the amps.

I doubt you can get to an explosive air/fuel mix with that mill in any normal scenario, more take care of you and the ability to clean up. I felt like poo for a couple of days after the fair, I was not good about dust masking for those short grinds. Outdoors solves several problems. A friend with chickens will appreciate your experiments. Becky's chickens are my biggest fans.

 Be aware of the marketing, there is no commercial GMO wheat in the US, that is sort of in the same vein as putting "gluten free" on cornmeal. Its true but not really needed.

This was one project I thought was cool, putting a grain mill in a school
The Next Chapter for Farm to School: Milling Whole Grains in the Cafeteria | Civil Eats (https://civileats.com/2021/09/10/the-next-chapter-for-farm-to-school-milling-whole-grains-in-the-cafeteria/)

This one says for 50 to 200 mesh flour so I think it should work. Rated for dried items only like corn, wheat, soy beans, pepper, rice, and nuts that are small. Supposed to grind once coarse then adjust and grind again for flour. I don't  see a stop on the wheel for adjusting the gap so I imagine if not careful one could easily make metal chips. Instructions stink. Supposed to grind 60 kg of corn an hour that seems like a lot. They say wet items will plug the wheels instantly and have a different version for that. Lots of learning to do. Now my wife is talking about me building a summer kitchen outside for bread making and canning. What the heck have I started? All I wanted was good corn muffins  :D.

You'll have some of that on these big jobs  :D

Kinda like buying a sawmill.  ;D
What have I started.

21. Certainly a nice looking unit !

Quote from: tule peak timber on August 20, 2023, 08:41:29 AM
21. Certainly a nice looking unit !

It's overkill for our needs and hopefully it works for now. Hope your not in the path of that storm. Stay safe and batten down that corn. 

The eye is going to be near us later today and so far the storm has been pretty mild. Thanks for thinking of us. :)

We talked about long term storage dry goods before and this is pushing my requirements  to a larger solution.  Found the Gamma 2 lids and food grade buckets are recommended for grains and Corn. They have o ring seals where they snap on the bucket and another o ring on the screw in lid. Got some put together  today. Tight fit. Got one for red wheat,  white wheat,  corn, rice, and assorted beans.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34694/20230820_162808.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1692567491)
 
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I meant to look at Lowes for an NSF seal, the restaurant supplies show Rubbermaid Brute cans for dry goods storage. I can easily get 2 50 lb sacks of corn in a 30 gallon trash can.

I have a lid like that. 
I doubt it's food grade type.

Quote from: thecfarm on August 20, 2023, 06:07:03 PM
I have a lid like that.
I doubt it's food grade type.

The real gamma lids are foodsafe when used with a foodsafe buckets. Even the colors are bpa free and foodsafe.  Many of the Chinese knock offs are not so don't fall for them.

I was looking at this unit for the pto on the mixer, it doesn't look like it'll go fine enough for flour but I found the first comment informative on it and a few other mills;
Amazon.com: KitchenAid KGM All Metal Grain Mill Attachment: Home & Kitchen (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DVP1V6/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B003DVP1V6&pd_rd_w=JcZWl&content-id=amzn1.sym.386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_p=386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_r=B2QC0EMAZTVD0AT7YX8V&pd_rd_wg=0DOPz&pd_rd_r=f4fc608c-53b6-4b7b-a5bc-5e671d0d758a&s=kitchen&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzQjJESVVBUURVREdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDE4MDI1MlhWQjJSV0ZKQVRYNiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDQ5MTAyMjQ1VVFEOTRGUFZTQiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)

The Meadows bagging hopper looks like a good hit. I was looking thru my Red Green pile yesterday and I have about zero stainless.

I watched some videos about them and they just don't have the hp to do a fine grind.  I understand the burr mills require a precise alignment of the tapered burrs that those little machines don't offer. They interface at about a 2 degree angle and for finer grinds they need to be centered. With sloppy clearance mounting holes it will probably take some fine tuning time. I bet that little  pto one doesn't have the crusher and the plates must be angled the opposite direction together grain to feed. I found a set of stones that may fit mine with some mods.

Quote from: tule peak timber on August 17, 2023, 12:21:45 PM
I'm new at this, so I've been asking a lot of questions and reading for months about milling of corn, specifically for polenta. I have not been able to make a decision on a small grinder for kitchen use, but I'm tending towards the Country Living mill with a motor at a price of $1100. It's just the two of us and we will  be grinding primarily corn but possibly some other grains as well. I'm already into this project (growing the corn, buying a schiller, drying storage bags, etc.) and don't have any results yet. I made a decision yesterday to buy a cheap cast iron corn grinder from Amazon for $47 to see if my corn is all that it's touted to be. If we grind up a little bit, boil it and try some recipes to include breads, traditional fried polenta, corn cakes and a dessert called "Atole de elote", to which I was introduced in Guatemala, we'll go further with a high quality grinder for the kitchen.

A bit on the corn; from reading I selected Floriani because it's supposed to be the best polenta corn. It has an interesting history of being a native heirloom corn from North America that was taken to Italy many years ago and is grown specifically, selectively for polenta making. From reading, I've learned it has a very high protein content compared to other corns, superior flavour and a light pink tint to the meal.

From personal observation, it grows like any other corn. The ears are slightly smaller and I'm getting one to two ears/stalk. The plants are tall, 8-11', with a weaker, brittle root structure compared to a hybrid corn. This means that they blow over and snap off when hit with gusts of wind; such as from a rain storm. I should be harvesting and drying the ears I would say by next month and will be able to calculate yield per 25' row. I did spray at first silk with BT and calcium so my fill in is pretty good and I have no worms.

Hopefully the stuff is good tasting enough to warrant going ahead ordering more kelp, rock dust, shell dust, fish meal, cotton seed meal and a great deal of compost to add to the garden this winter and push on with developing this corn for the dinner table once or twice a week, year round. My goal is to have a wholesome starch besides wheat, rice, and potatoes. My wife and I are pretty healthy eating out of the garden and the Gulf of Alaska and this is something I would like to further.

Tule I'm curious what the BT spray treatment stands for?
I've got some open pollinated grain corn growing this year, I'm actually impressed considering the lack of inputs I used. Didn't spray for ear worms at all. Plan is I'll pick the best ears and save them for seed next year. 
Hope you, your friends and corn are not too effected by the storm. 

BT is short for bacillus thuringiensis. It is a non-poisonous way to stop ear worms from invading your crops. It also works really well on tomatoes, cukes and other veggies to keep worms and caterpillars from doing their business. It is a foliar spray mixed with water and I like to throw in a little calcium at the same time. The ultimate is to mix it into a tea machine for foliar feeding along with kelp, trace rock dust, and compost juice. Works great.
  As far as the storm a couple of days ago, it flattened the whole garden. I'm just waiting for the mud to dry so I can get in and salvage as many ears as possible. I hope the ears are far enough along to pick and strip. There is still a little green left in the stalks, but the ears and leaves are brown. I bought light airy storage bags to put the ears in for final drying by hanging from the rafters in a storage building.

Cleaned it today to get all the Chinesium smell and oil out of the chamber and plate. They say don't wet it but it took hot water and Dawn to get it food worthy. Then just ran a 1/2 cup of rice through it for a final cleanup. First coarse that came out like kosher salt, then a little finer. Well I am surprised how fine it ground. It's just about a flour consistency.  I actually can go a little closer with the plates. Most of it went through a 40 mesh sifter and about half of that went through the 50 mesh sifter. My wife is happy with the rice and next is corn. This is 50 mesh rice flour. 

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Took about 4 seconds for a 1/2 cup. Hard to tell from the pics but it's nice and fluffy.  I think they recommend 2 passes to keep the flour from getting too warm. 
Don, what mesh screen do you use for corn muffins, and what mesh for grits if you don't mind me asking.  

Sweet!

I'm running through a 16 mesh which is stock for a corn mill. When I want grits I resift through a colander that must be an 18 or 20, what is left on the screen is grits. I'll try to find some specs in the old catalogs.

If I grind too fine the bran passes through the screen, I winnowed those grits in front of a fan and improved them. Too coarse and there is coarse cracked grain in the bran. All the bran bucket goes to the chickens and they find any cracked grain that stayed above the screen but I don't try to feed them good grain!

Thanks Don. I found a 20 mesh sifter on Amazon to try. I will look for some 16 mesh screen to build that one. None of the commercial stuff mentions mesh. Just fine, medium, and coarse so I appreciate your help. 

 
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This is from a newer catalog than the grits bolter I posted earlier. The Mealmaster mills are their commercial steel cased mills. 

"The meal end of the reel is cov3ered with either 16, 18, or 20 mesh wire cloth. 18 mesh is standard and will be furnished unless otherwise ordered. The lower end of the reel is covered with 26 mesh cloth to eliminate excessive bran dust."

And that is funny, in the previous, earlier, bolter it has a fan to winnow the bran from the grits as a notable feature, here it is missing.

Found a newer one, this one incorporates the winnowing fan under the unit for bran removal, something I'd seen in earlier models, as well as the elevator fan back at the mill to hoist the meal to the bolter cyclone.

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I bought some of Bob's Red Mill cornmeal today.
"Our cornmeal makes incredibly delicious cornbread; and here's why; We leave the corn germ and bran in. It's 100% stone ground, which results in cornmeal that isn't just tasty, its a good source of fiber too. You'll find its also the ideal texture for muffins, pancakes, waffles and a host of other baked goods."

It is yellow corn and organic. Retail was the same as what I sold at the fair for $5/24 oz. I'm using white but it is not organic.

So, when I overgrind and get too much bran in the meal, its sort of like jazz, brag about it! This is labeled medium grind and is finer than mine. I need a set of gauging screens. I remember a set of tobacco screens that were a nice stacking brass set of ever finer screens, but that has been decades ago.

I can't remember if I wrote after trying to make grits from what was basically cracked corn. Exceedingly coarse, unscreened, winnowed. It had good flavor and was interesting. it would be a good "poor" food. It took quite a bit of chewing per mouthful. Sorta reminded me of crab, am I gaining calories or losing here :).

Well, if that is any indication. I made a pan of cornbread with Bob's cornmeal, its eatable but no comparison to mine. The heavy part of the corn flavor is much more pronounced, the grit is tougher. Vacuum packed but it's not as good. I'm ruined, the stuff in the store stays on their shelf  :D. I think I might freeze this pone and one of mine and put them both out at the farmers market to see what others think. BTW, as far as my palette goes, you can freeze and thaw cornbread with no ill effect.

This is the recipe I used;
Preheat to 425
1½ cups cornmeal
½ cup all purpose flour
3 tbsp sugar (a friend uses this recipe with 1 tbsp, I must have a sweet tooth)
2 teaspoons baking powder
½ tsp baking soda
1 tsp salt
Whisk dry ingredients together (and then do it again 3 or 4 more times, a bite of soda or powder takes all the joy out of it!)

In another bowl whisk 2 eggs well
add 1 cup buttermilk
1/3 cup milk and whisk again

Mix wet with dry and fold in 3 tbsp melted butter

Pour into a greased 9" pan and bake at 425 for 20 minutes or until golden brown.

I used my recipe with Bob's meal. The recipe on the back of their bag called for 50/50 flour/meal instead of my ratio which is pretty much just enough flour to hold it together well. That would probably lighten it up some.

Thanks for the recipe. Going to try it. Brought the grinder outside this morning to try. Got some nice rice and white wheat flour ground then I go inside for a break and my wife is laying in her chair with chest pain, can't breath, and is blacking out. Dropped everything, loaded her in my truck and 5 minutes later had her in the ER. Takes 20 minutes around here to get an ambulance out so I took the chance. That put an end to my grinding for a while. She was admitted but hospital is so overloaded she is stuck in the ER till tomorrow when hopefully they kick someone out to open up a bed. I can say she had the most awesome nurses all day. I am whopped from stress.

Oh no! Glad she is in good hands. Keep us posted and take care of yourself.
We're kind of the same way, I can be at the ER in under a half hour if pressed, it takes 1st responders a minimum of 45 to reach us. That didn't use to bother me.

Glad you were home!!!!!!

Will hope she is going to be okay and back soon to enjoy your new flour. 

Thanks everyone. It's amazing how fast things like that can happen. She actually was looking up recipes for rice flour when I went out and was fine. They will have access to more testing when the hospital is fully operational tomorrow.

Quote from: Don P on August 27, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Oh no! Glad she is in good hands. Keep us posted and take care of yourself.
We're kind of the same way, I can be at the ER in under a half hour if pressed, it takes 1st responders a minimum of 45 to reach us. That didn't use to bother me.

We are 8 miles from the local hospital but use volunteers so it takes time for them to get to the firehouse and then respond.
Didn't know that ranger would handle nice at 100 mph till today. Adrenalin really takes over in an emergency.  Luckily it's a straight shot from our house and no traffic on a Sunday morning.

[color=var(--yt-spec-text-secondary)] (https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxndAfchAzxnPjAoGf8lgXB-aDYVr91eeg)[/color]

That is good news!!!!

That is good to hear  8)

That is bran, pericarp would be another term to reference.. Since you are grinding in 2 passes I'd screen between and try to avoid regrinding bran.

The spiral you see in the interior shots of mine, is just a feed spiral, it brings the grain in through the eye of the burrs.

There was a misspeak as you were reading the label, the power required is 3kw... so yeah, pulling ~30amps through a 12 gauge cord is, well, its short.

I heard a piece on the radio today. Sesame has been added to the allergen list, which brings it up to 9. Apparently bakeries, rather than creating exclusive non sesame lines, went the other way and added sesame to more products and listed it on the label. Ahh the unintended consequences of legislation. In the ServSafe training the allergen and cross contamination section was pretty major.

My cleanup is similar just a whole lot dustier. Lots of scrape, brush, vac, blow, repeat.

I made cornbread with mine tonight, much better. Fresh is the biggest thing I do believe.

Thanks Don for sharing your experience.  This mill recommends grinding multiple passes for fine flour. I think the problem is the grinding plates are so close for fine grinding and the flour all squeezes through the edge between the plates with no pockets or grooves to feed bigger particles.  That center  feed auger is a fairly close fit to the multiple tooth spline it fits in that does the pre cracking to get things to a size that can fit between the burr plates. 

I had no idea that the pericarp is a byproduct of grinding wheat. I will screen it out first grind from now on. Don't know what to do with it but I saved it to play with later. I did read it's very healthy and good sprinkled on oatmeal if you soak it first. So much to learn.

The whole power  rating confuses me. They say 3000 watts @ 110 volts that should be about 27 amps but say use a 45 amp breaker to feed it and it has a 50 amp breaker built in.  I Have 120 volts per phase from the pole so that puts it in the 25 amp range. I guess it will have a higher  draw If I fed it with the valve wide open under heavy load, but playing with it to clean I ran quite a bit of rice through it on the standard 15 amp outdoor outlet. Have to make a cord for my clamp meter to see what it really is.

I started trying to clean it with a vacuum but it seemed to create static that made the fine stuff stick worse. Compressed air seems the best with all the crevices but I don't have a moisture trap on the small compressor so I think moisture droplets may be causing a little  sticking. Definitely going  to put wheels under this so it can be rolled outside to use. 

I am still dying for my first fresh cornbread. Maybe this week if the cook feels up to it. Time to drag everything back outside and finish the grinding now that things have calmed down. That will give us a good assortment to play with. I found our local seed store the farmers use sells wheat, soy, and corn seed by the ton. Have to check if maybe they will sell 100 pound bags of wheat berries.  The dent corn is gmo I was told so won't touch that. Wonder if the sweet corn seeds would grind.

Watch seed grain for pretreatment.
Meadows says mine can grind any dry free flowing grain.
Bran looks like it would make good oil dry, maybe a soft blast media for polishing type work. It is food so that has tempered my trying it and attracting varmints. When the chickens turn up their noses I'll look for another outlet. Whole, long grain rice has had that polished off, I assume that is master class  :D.

That's a good thought, I've been curious what I'm really using also, I might be set up on a generator if I travel. Inrush on any motor is double or triple full load amps but only for a second or two. I think I can get a clamp on meter on a wire in the junction box. Is there a UL label on it, the electrics do sound suspect.

I looked and it has a CE on it. I think that means Chinese Electronics (proceed at your own risk) :D. Surprised no one else grinding their own has kicked in here. Set up and did some more grinding today while  my wife slept. Good thing she was sleeping because it was still with no breeze and I made a real mess. Couldn't believe the dust clouds when I put oatmeal in it. What beautiful flour it made but it was humid and it sucked the moisture right out of the air making it moist after sitting a while.  Kidney beans grind beautifully also. Now to start mixology and see how the different flours taste together.  I want a truck like yours now.

Trailer!
The truck was a buck, the fees are outrageous.

I've committed to one grain with this mill, so I'm really interested in how yours does on other grains, and beans and rice. I can see having an "everything else" mill somewhere in there. Where did you get your screens?

So it wants 45 amp protection at one end and has built in 50 amp protection at the other end of, a 12 gauge 20 amp line. That is the bun warmer feature. Outside is good.

I tried to keep grinding as the rain increased one day. As I lowered the door it didn't take long for me to shut down and wait. Grain mills, the building, can go boom... I'm not sure of the proper A/F mixture.

Mine is mainly wood framed and rock, that must be keeping it static free. I noticed in an old Williams catalog that they put a trap door in the bottom of their mill that is similar to mine, for cleanout. I feel some desecration coming on. Williams was a competitor that Meadows later bought out. If I could apply strong suction to the bottom and blow air in the intake, I'll bet it'll get better than 90% of it.

CE is the Canadian equivalent of UL and I think also accepted in the EU, but I am going from fogggy memeory here, so sheck it out for yourself. It's not Chinese. 

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on August 29, 2023, 09:33:42 PM
CE is the Canadian equivalent of UL and I think also accepted in the EU, but I am going from fogggy memeory here, so sheck it out for yourself. It's not Chinese.

The CE marking basically means nothing it only means the manufacturer has self certified the product for the European market. There has been no outside testing and it is nowhere near the same as UL. 
UL means it has been certified by an outside agency to meet all US standards.  In the past I had new products UL tested and they would never let things like this pass. 
Just like all the cheap CE rated e bike battery packs that are starting fires. The more expensive LG and similar packs are UL rated and rarely have a problem.  

Quote from: Don P on August 29, 2023, 09:18:00 PM
Trailer!
The truck was a buck, the fees are outrageous.

I've committed to one grain with this mill, so I'm really interested in how yours does on other grains, and beans and rice. I can see having an "everything else" mill somewhere in there. Where did you get your screens?

So it wants 45 amp protection at one end and has built in 50 amp protection at the other end of, a 12 gauge 20 amp line. That is the bun warmer feature. Outside is good.

I tried to keep grinding as the rain increased one day. As I lowered the door it didn't take long for me to shut down and wait. Grain mills, the building, can go boom... I'm not sure of the proper A/F mixture.

Mine is mainly wood framed and rock, that must be keeping it static free. I noticed in an old Williams catalog that they put a trap door in the bottom of their mill that is similar to mine, for cleanout. I feel some desecration coming on. Williams was a competitor that Meadows later bought out. If I could apply strong suction to the bottom and blow air in the intake, I'll bet it'll get better than 90% of it.

This one is kind of a monster but seems to work good on everything I have tried. Definitely takes some fiddling to adjust the fineness of the grind.  I don't  really have anything to compare it to so thats just my opinion. Supposed to be able to grind about 160 pounds of soy beans an hour. That probably would look like a nuclear cloud of dust I bet.
I got the screens from Amazon that probably wasn't the cheapest but instant satisfaction with next day delivery.  The 40 and 60 mesh I bought are really small and slow. The 20 mesh is bigger and better. Still trying  to find a 16 mesh but can only find that in a sifter can so far with a crank that I may try. Thinking I may just order mesh and build larger trays with some type of shaker frame someday to speed things up. But for now I am only doing a couple cups of flower at a time. 

Another option for a stand for your mill is a cart with wheel brakes. One with no lip on the top. A shelf on the bottom with a lip. I use one from Uline for the AC unit. So I can take out the AC for the winter and wheel it into a corner out of the way and cover it. Solid and will carry several thousand lbs. :D

I have a tomato press by this brand, and it was a fail. The skins and seeds did not exit the end like they should. They used a plastic screw, which is a big no no, instead of a cast screw. With these tomato mills, the machine is not to run unless the hopper is filled, even the high end machines.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on August 30, 2023, 03:14:15 AM
Another option for a stand for your mill is a cart with wheel brakes. One with no lip on the top. A shelf on the bottom with a lip. I use one from Uline for the AC unit. So I can take out the AC for the winter and wheel it into a corner out of the way and cover it. Solid and will carry several thousand lbs. :D

I have a tomato press by this brand, and it was a fail. The skins and seeds did not exit the end like they should. They used a plastic screw, which is a big no no, instead of a cast screw. With these tomato mills, the machine is not to run unless the hopper is filled, even the high end machines.

I originally thought it would be permanent in my basement kitchen but now know it's an outside machine, Definitely need something with wheels now or a shed just outside the door and my wife claimed the stainless one when that happens.  They have 2 levels of machines. The lowest cost ones are basically homeowners machines and won't last long or always work good. They have a commercial version of the tomato squeezes with a much longer cast aluminum auger and finer screen that I have seen working.  It looked to be equivalent of my old squeeze that we have used almost 40 years. I find some of this Chinese stuff works and some doesn't.  It's definitely all throw away in the end because manufacturers make stuff to the distributors specs and they come and go. If you are young and want something that lasts 50 years spend the money for the original. Being old, I don't need more then 15 years from things anymore makes me go for affordable copies that work. Like how Harbor Freight has taken off being the number one tool distributor in the US at this point. People need affordable options and are willing to accept some risk to get them.

The next 2 generations of millers were nodding in agreement when Sammie instructed me to always leave grain in the mill. This was so there was no chance of the stones bumping on startup. Like yours, mine has a spring that keeps the burrs apart and the adjustment brings them closer together. Because I am running infrequently, I am having to open up and empty the mill. So I'm disobeying, I guess I should be hand turning until it establishes feed and a kernel or two in the stones. They have not touched from starting dry but I don't have much experience. I have touched lightly twice, and I can see the glazed spot where they did. The smell of stones rubbing was immediate and the sound, well, it does about the same thing to you as seeing sparks come out of the log you're cutting. In both cases I was sneaking up on as fine as it could grind. For corn that was foolishness.

Why the meticulous cleanup... I've thrown weevils out of the mill, yuuck, and I was about 30 lbs into grinding when I realized it. Chickens thought it was intentional just for them.
I've had a 1.5lb bag with a window on the countertop for 11 days from the last run, that is weevil free, an experiment to see if eggs are in the grain or mill. I believe the elevator is clean. I think I can introduce them with a dirty mill where a moth has laid eggs in old meal. So deep clean before and after a run. I seem to have the truck mouse tight but not gnat tight yet. If I'm dreaming, a reefer trailer with better door seals, my rollup is a dry box but not an especially tight box. Doors that swing and pin back to the sides would probably be better, and a lower deck. Mine is a mafunzalo operation on a rustoleum rebuild  :D.

One thing with the stones rubbing. The old methods did very often grind the hand stones together, think of the native American metate and mano, the quern mill, the stone roller mills, mortar and pestle. The mills where the stone touched introduced grit, which over time is not good for your teeth. With some stones this was a serious issue. In the stone mills like mine, or an old water powered mill, the stones do not touch and the intention is to cut rather than crush the grain. This was a cultural/technological leap.

The early Meadows corn cleaner is another hexagonal reel type bolter with 2 screens, one coarser than a kernel, one finer. The clean kernels exit between screens. I'm assuming they could easily make round bolters and cleaners but were making hexagons to create some beating action?


Just as an aside, is there any way to layout a simple auger other than many circular donuts that are split, stretched to a spiral and welded end to end, one volute at a time? Duh, I think the etymology of re volute just hit me  :D

edit: I'm spinning at ~500RPMs on the rocks.

I back mine off between cleanings because it calls for double grindings. I don't really think it is necessary though. I once made an simple crude auger by cutting large doughnuts on my cnc plasma table then stretching them. was not pretty and took a lot of grinding to get the seams tight. Definitely wouldn't do it again. I have seen people 3d print them with nylons and carbon fiber filament and they looked nice plus are tough. Make 1 ft sections that interlock together for longer runs. Could even make sand molds from 3d printed ones to cast aluminum. Probably best thing is watch craigslist for something used if your not in a hurry. They also sell nice steel augers for battery operated post hole diggers in smaller sizes that are fairly cheap and stretched steel. Might be able to pin a couple together for longer runs. Not food grade though.

Made our first cornbread with my ground white wheat and cornmeal. Wow is that tasty, nothing like commercial flours. Very good rich corn taste and beautiful texture. This mill is definitely going to put a couple pounds on me. Oatmeal flour pancakes tomorrow.


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Looks good to. ;)

Had our first home made squash pie from the squash I picked a few days ago. We've eaten some as a vegetable and it was nice and ripe and dry. Dryness is a trait of these squash. Just lather the butter on. ;D 

First loaf of home ground red winter wheat bread. Wow is it good

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Just amazing the flavor fresh ground flour has.

That looks good! 
I'm back from a niece's wedding. I passed out bags of cornmeal and had made cornbread for all of us in the house. A BIL has gotten into breadmaking so we plumped up into our clothes nicely  :D. I should have product on both coasts by tomorrow. 

 Current events, a comment in your video, and grinding one's own grain brought back a memory. My folks were Peace Corps volunteers in Moldova years ago, next door to Ukraine. The Holodomor of 1932-33, was not an isolated event, but the worst I know of. Stalin confiscated the wheat and grindstones of the Ukranian people and committed genocide, millions of people starved. The reason Russians live there now, and where the Russians live in Ukraine, where the fighting is gong on now, is where they depopulated the heaviest in that genocide. The memorial to the confiscation that comes to mind is a stack of millstones in Kiev (I think). Throughout history this has happened, whether it was breadmaking monks using the peasants stones to pave the abbey floor to force purchase of their bread, or landlords exercising their "right" to force peasants to use the banal mill. Aside from tasting great, every community should have a few mills just for basic food security. Grain is the easiest long storage food, the staff of life.

The bread had excellent flavor but my wife used 100% red hard wheat and it is too crumbly to be used for sandwiches. Really good sliced thick and toasted.  We have to learn how to blend the types of wheat for a little  more elasticity. 
I understand this time the shortages will be different.  The minute the news started saying  shortages futures started rising.  At the same time large companies have started up buying all the grains they can get their hands on filling empty old warehouses.  That will eventually create a real supply shortage for mom and pop operations.  Then prices skyrocket as it's slowly released.  It's  all about money and impossible to tell who is working with who anymore. I like baked goods so it is a fun hobby that actually can help isolate me from what's going on in the world at the same time. 
A local guy sells used food grade 30 and 55 gallon barrels that I may look into if I find a local grain supply. Kind of looks like off the combine grains need further cleaning but that's the cheapest option. 

We've been growing corn as a grain ever since I had sweet corn turned starchy and wondered how it could be used. I dried and ground it and made a decent cornbread and parched corn. The next year we grew Floriana corn and used it for pancakes and cornbread and even began making nixtimal after soaking the corn in a lye solution from our wood ash for tortillas. We used an old hand grinder that is now driven by an electric motor. We have a different grinder for wheat and a small roller for oats.

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Last year we harvested 100lbs of dry corn and we've grown red winter wheat on a small scale because we have a dry climate and it's ripe just before the hot dry summers begin. Last year we only got 8lbs of wheat and we use a pedal powered thresher and then finish with a pedal powered cleaner.

There is a local company that grows and purchases organic grains from the local farms and it has really taken off although drought has been an issue in 2021 and 23. We buy 40lb bags of Red Winter wheat and other grains and store in 30 gal metal garbage cans. We like the idea of a local supply and want to make sure they prosper.
We're new to grinding wheat for bread on a regular basis and are really enjoying this thread and benefitting from the expertise. Up until this year we were making bread with regular flour and sometimes adding a 1/3 riced potato to 2/3 flour like they do in this video. It's very good.

The Great Wheat Shortage of 1797 - Bread for the Commoners - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4UR0MUBnOM)

The drought this year in western Canada has hit many grain growers on the prairies and elsewhere and rice supplies  have been cutoff somewhat as producing nations are holding back food to feed their own people so sourcing local and growing a large garden makes more and more sense.

Certified Organic Grains | Fieldstone Granary (fieldstoneorganics.ca) (https://www.fieldstoneorganics.ca/)


The Poor Man's Bread - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx-cSSqmY6w)

I can't wait to grow my own corn. I am starting to think wheat may be a lot of work with the harvesting and cleaning. My wife wants to try the tortillas someday.
I tried to quickly finish up the second half of the grinder video. Found I had made toxic flour for believing what I read on the internet about how any dried bean could be be ground for flour. Well there are some that can make you sick or kill you if used in baking where they don't hit proper temps to kill the toxins I found out when searching for recipes. I will say I have had good luck with that grinder so far but it is a monster for home use.
Getting Started Grinding Our Own Flower & Cornmeal With A Commercial Vevor Grain Grinder Part 2 Of 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/eIwyZZTgQro)

I enjoy Townsend's videos. This is another of a tour through a flour mill. It was neat how much it looks like the old water powered roller mill just larger scale and metal vs wood.

How King Arthur Baking Produces 100 Million Pounds of Flour per Year — Dan Does - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaIsRXknv8Y)

There is a difference in these and the stone mills in the old mill building. Where the manager here is talking about as many as 6 breaks in the roller mill, the stone mill is "single pass" milling (which is a selling point) and that is where the larger sets of stones did a better job. For corn I'm fine, for wheat a 36" diameter stone has a lot better chance of getting the grain to a fine flour in a single pass than my 16" stones.

My wife wants something she can use for grains now so I just ordered her a Mockmill 200 stone mill that sits on the counter.  Only grinds 200 grams a minute but that should be good for her baking needs. Made in Germany and hopefully it works good with no dust or messy cleaning. Doesn't look like it's good for flint corn or popcorn but should do everything else. I took free shipping so probably going to take a couple weeks. We are hooked on the flavors of fresh ground grains.

Interesting mill, and look forward to hearing your results. 

Found:
Mockmill 200 Grain Mill review | Grain grinder for homemade flour - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv_GYX6VRjI)

It looks like a nice small mill my wife can use. Not rated for running more then a couple loaves worth of flour without a break but uses stones supposedly for less heat. My wife needs more flour  to play with but started my cataract surgeries and the doctor said no lifting over 30 pounds for a month after each one so I can't drag the monster out at over 100 pounds for 2 months. Decided a little brother that can run in the house would be good for her to play with.  We can drag the big one out when the kids want a batch. There are better ones but I didn't want to spend over $400 so with a coupon I found it fit the budget.  Watched some videos and everyone seemed to like it. 

Here's a manual mill to have a look at, made in USA.

https://www.countrylivinggrainmills.com

Operating the Country Living Grain Mill - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVYw1a_fKQA)

Installing Corn & Bean Auger in Country Living Grain Mill - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnj5-YYybPk)

That's not a stone mill. Don't want another plate mill plus my wife couldn't crank it. The Mockmill is made in Germany and has excellent reviews.  

Just found a local dealer to buy corn and grains from about 40 miles away. 
https://www.senecagrainandbean.com/shop
Going to try and get down there next week to buy a couple hundred pounds of corn and grains.
Certified Organic Wapsie Valley Corn sounds interesting.  I think it may be a Mennonite or Amish organization because of no phone and Pen Yan has a big community of Amish.

Not sure a stone mill that size has enough mass for the job. But if she can't crank a manual mill, then it's not contender to start with. Personally, that would have been my first purchase for all the flour and cornmeal I'd ever use. It's Been around for a long time.

Don, question for you. I see some people that grind cornmeal,  polenta,  and grits from that Wapsie Valley Corn roast it before grinding  for supposedly better flavors. Wondering if you have ever tried that and noticed a difference. 

Quote from: SwampDonkey on September 07, 2023, 09:04:17 PM
Not sure a stone mill that size has enough mass for the job. But if she can't crank a manual mill, then it's not contender to start with. Personally, that would have been my first purchase for all the flour and cornmeal I'd ever use. It's Been around for a long time.

Surprised you don't have one already with your interest in a healthy lifestyle.  I am looking for an old hand crank corn shucker next for when I eventually try growing the corn. 
From what I have watched that little stone mill works good but the small stones do generate some heat unlike big stone mills and they are very easy to clean if glazed just grinding some rice coarse.  

I have not. Ground parched corn. Sounds like an interesting experiment, do you have a time/temp that they are using? You've oxidized and cooked it, small batch immediate use I imagine. Try some and if it works I can try a few lbs at the end of a run. Looking at Seneca's website, I think they are just dedicated farmer foodies. The cleaning operation is impressive. Mainly I'm picking out cob tips and a few buckwheat grains, their optical cleaner is getting that. I'm jealous of your resource!

This morning's experiment was 2 batches of cornbread with the same recipe. One is abused meal, the other fresh frozen. The abused was fresh frozen, thawed out at the farmers market 2 weeks ago and then thrown in my wife's lunchbox and I discovered it in a hot box in her car a day or 2 later. I took it to Atlanta and back in a cooler having never opened it, then set it out on the counter for another week. I think I can taste a less fragrant/fresh taste but it is not stale or off yet.  I'm kind of experimenting to find the freshness limits. I need a blind tasting, I knew which was which. I sent bagged fresh to the market this morning and need to take some over for a friend at the shale pit and a bag to the machine shop

Just talked to chef Jen, she made some with just cornmeal and just buttermilk (no blend as in my recipe above) for a no wheat friend and said it was good. Her suggestion is 1 tsp baking powder per cup of meal/flour and a light amount of soda, which is about where I'm at but I'll try some with a bit less leavening, I do taste it and would rather not if I can get the loft. She has also used it as breading and said it worked well. One miller says he thinks a good bit of the wheat allergies we see now are really poison allergies.

Oh, I stopped using Pam, that was one of my off flavors, I noticed it in the mini muffins and then my taste always found it, butter the pan.

Quote from: 21incher on September 08, 2023, 06:56:19 AM
Surprised you don't have one already with your interest in a healthy lifestyle.  

That's because I can get it locally stone ground. :D  Red Fife wheat, spelt, and Kamut flours, and buckwheat flour. Their corn is ground for cereal, but if you cook it first like cereal you can make cornbread just fine. Those with intolerances to wheat find they can eat and enjoy Red Fife Flour. 

Red fife was brought to Canada from Scotland over 170 years ago.

That's what I thought.  They have awesome cleaning equipment.  That corn I bought on Amazon even had organic pebbles in it  :o. Tried to find information about roasting the corn but all I could find some guy in Africa roasting it in an open pan over a gas burner. Kind of burned the outside some. From what  I could find it gives the flour a nutty flavor and modifies the corn starch to give give the flour a longer shelf life after grinding. I will try some as it appears to change the flavor.  It seems to be a good way for people without refrigeration to store the flour longer. 

She said "Life's too short to eat bad cornbread". The mistreated meal had an off metallic taste to her. To me I don't pick that up, it was just not as good. If I stock stores it'll need to be pulled after a couple of weeks for feed and restock fresh if they cannot refrigerate it. 

That's interesting that roasting is preserving it, well, I guess we have thermally modified wood to preserve it. Sugar, starch and cellulose are cousins. I guess it is like toasting sesame.

I've heard the same thing, if bread gives you distress try organic fresh whole wheat and see if you still have problems. In a couple of the old catalogs Meadows advertises an enrichment can and chute for adding vitamins and minerals to the flour while you're grinding.

Just clarifying grain parts, the bran riding off your screen is the same husk or pericarp that you are gently rubbing off and rinsing out when making hominy. The lye soak loosens it from the kernel. I had heard it before but Dad reminded me of one of Grandad's stories. When he was a boy he decided to help make the hominy, which was done on the hearth. He added what he thought was a reasonable amount of corn, lye and water. It swelled, it swelled and ran out all over the hearth. Come to think of it, I've heard a similar story about my uncle on Mama's side. I've been picking up corn for one of our southern neighbors, that white is the closest thing to home that he's tasted. Down there they buy "cal" for making masa, wet ground hominy, but he didn't know what we call it. I got him a box of Mrs Wage's Pickling Lime.

Finding out there is a lot more to using fresh milled flour then just substitution into existing recipes.  Picked up a book that has wonderful info and recipes to get started. It's an older publication  but looks good.

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Waiting for my wife's mill to arrive.  Some grains degrade hours after milling so seems like the counter top mills is best.

Grains also have to be a certain dryness to. When dad sold flour wheat, if it didn't meet a certain dryness threshold it was not sold. The dryer stuff has the least spoilage. It can all spoil with time. Even nut flour, because it is full of a lot of fat, it can turn to soap taste after awhile. :D

There's a good explanation of how store bought flours are treated and additives to give it shelf life. I definitely won't but that crap anymore. Each wheat and grain is different.  Proper storage is required but after grinding for top quality end results any fresh ground grain is a timebomb.

21, what do you think about this one?
VEVOR Grinder Model MFS-140
Seems like Vevor makes just about anything you can think of!

Quote from: ljohnsaw on September 11, 2023, 09:18:08 PM
21, what do you think about this one?
VEVOR Grinder Model MFS-140
Seems like Vevor makes just about anything you can think of!

I really have no idea. Doesn't look food grade to me being painted on the inside. But it does have stones and says grinds wet items. Probably grinds ok though. I see moonshine guys use that kind to crack the corn. Vevor doesn't really make anything,  they resell products made to their specs with a Vevor sticker.

Yeah, I was surprised to see it painted. It's on auction and might get it if it goes cheap.

~13% was the target MC the old miller told me. The grain is also certified, I know they are checking for aflatoxin, not sure if anything else. 

 
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Not sure what they were grinding but here is a picture of a small mill at a local market/gathering place I took in Guinea in West Africa on 11-18-2010. It was common to see such mills set up in the market and people would buy corn or such and bring to them and they would grind it for them. The messiest I ever saw was when they were making peanut butter.

Quote from: 21incher on September 11, 2023, 05:13:30 PM
There's a good explanation of how store bought flours are treated and additives to give it shelf life.

Not only that, they have to add nutrients because they get removed. And they are only adding in 9, but way more were removed in the process. I've known that for years. Stu Flyshaker was the one that started the local mill, probably 40 years ago now and he explained that back then. He was from the state of Washington, he was also a forester. He thinned trees with a clearing saw years ago like I do. I think in the 70's. He did that thinning here in New Brunswick. The Grant brothers bought him out a few years ago and continue making flour.

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 12, 2023, 02:32:48 PM

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Not sure what they were grinding but here is a picture of a small mill at a local market/gathering place I took in Guinea in West Africa on 11-18-2010. It was common to see such mills set up in the market and people would buy corn or such and bring to them and they would grind it for them. The messiest I ever saw was when they were making peanut butter.

Wow what an experience that was for you. Just like it started out here with a mill in every town. Great picture. 

Quote from: SwampDonkey on September 12, 2023, 03:46:54 PM

Quote from: 21incher on September 11, 2023, 05:13:30 PM
There's a good explanation of how store bought flours are treated and additives to give it shelf life.

Not only that, they have to add nutrients because they get removed. And they are only adding in 9, but way more were removed in the process. I've known that for years. Stu Flyshaker was the one that started the local mill, probably 40 years ago now and he explained that back then. He was from the state of Washington, he was also a forester. He thinned trees with a clearing saw years ago like I do. I think in the 70's. He did that thinning here in New Brunswick. The Grant brothers bought him out a few years ago and continue making flour.

Yes it's amazing how once the grain is cracked it starts going downhill immediately and the only  way to stop it is with chemical treatment.  My wife read that section of the book today and has the garbage can full of all processed flours we had. She will never use the commercial stuff again as the additives could actually be causing some of her health issues after looking into it further.The new mill will be set up on the counter tomorrow and no going back. It all will be ground fresh per the recipe.  Going down to pick up a couple hundred pounds of assorted grain next week to be set for the next pandemic. Have to order toasted groats online because I can't find them locally and get an grain flaker for oatmeal. Fresh oats are oily and don't store well without refrigeration.  What started as a simple video about a grinder has opened our eyes to why so many are switching over to grinding their own.
  

Got the Mockmill today. Just some small man-made stones and a motor. Nice compact unit about the size of a coffee maker.

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Drove down to the senecagrainandbean.com today after my doc gave me the ok to drive and pick up over 30 pounds Wednesday. What an operation.  Giant grain silos and a building full of processing equipment. Much bigger then I expected.  Everybody was real busy and it's more of a setup for supplying large high end bakeries then dealing with little customers like me. I sent an email with my order and it was ready to go in the warehouse.  I will say I have never seen so many bags of grain. All bagged and stacked on pallets that hold a ton. A nice young fellow helped me load up my 225 pounds. Got Einkorn, Spelt, Emmer, Renan hard red winter, Fredrick soft white winter, and Wapsie Valley Corn. Everything they sell is organic and packaged in 25 and 50 pound bags. I am whopped after doing nothing for almost 3 weeks but it was a wonderful day that turned out being over 100 mile drive through the finger lakes. Trying to get it all stored away and labeled now. Boy is it nice and clean. Can't wait to get started. Picked up 1/2 gallon of honey for sweetening and a big bag of yeast.

Tried some rice through the new grinder to clean the stones and found out stone grind is different then burr ground. The stone ground has sharper edges leaving even the fine grinds feeling a little abrasive where the burr ground has round edges with no abrasive feel making a fluffier flour. It will be fun to compare them.

On the way home we stopped in a re house store to browse.  My wife couldn't believe what she found. She has an older Pfaltzgraff plate set that has been discontinued for years. One plate got broken at a holiday gathering and we have only found  a couple on ebay for around $50 each. We'll they had a matching set that someone just dropped off marked $15 for a 12 place setting  just missing a couple items. She is a very happy woman now. Got mad when I told her she doesn't need them all and I would sell the extras on ebay.   What a perfect day.

A very interesting thread.
I have enjoyed it.
I am not understanding most of it, but I like it.

Sounds like a great day and good experience.

Good score on the dishes. I know from experience from selling several sets of dishes that they are not as valuable on the used market as some would wish. Sets of dishes worth several thousand might fetch $400 used, if your lucky. All the china shops closed up in these parts decades ago. To replace a dish in many of the old patterns takes some serious coin. In my mother's generation, when women were to be married, one of the first things they did was choose the dishes they wanted to collect. Ironstone patterns were popular in these parts: Friendly Village, Vista. Royal Albert and Royal Copenhagen patterns were very popular as well and sold through Sears. And Fiesta was cheap every day dishes, the early ones used radioactive pigments. A bygone era now. Today's family does not have the disposable income for pricey dishes.

Got it all sorted through today and put it in buckets, cannisters, and half gallon jars. Jars are for up in the kitchen, cannisters to refill the jars and buckets to refill cannisters so they don't need to be opened often. Everything is labeled and put away now. 

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21 Incher I have to say thanks for posting about your experience with milling your own flour. It has inspired us to try so we bought a attachment for our Kitchen Aid mixer it works very well for our needs. We have been pleasantly surprised with the whole wheat bread my wife has made fresh ground flower really makes a big difference. We have only tried hard red winter wheat so far. The kitchen Aid is slow but it is easy to clean and fits our needs every well. Thank you

Quote from: randy d on September 17, 2023, 11:45:40 AM
21 Incher I have to say thanks for posting about your experience with milling your own flour. It has inspired us to try so we bought a attachment for our Kitchen Aid mixer it works very well for our needs. We have been pleasantly surprised with the whole wheat bread my wife has made fresh ground flower really makes a big difference. We have only tried hard red winter wheat so far. The kitchen Aid is slow but it is easy to clean and fits our needs every well. Thank you

Well that's a good thing. I am hoping you post pics and an opinion of the grain mill you bought and as you come up with good recipes that work for you post them. Actually this is a family forum and maybe you should have your wife join and post here giving the rest of us ideas to try. 

So far we have only used the red hard, white hard, and corn. I was excited  to find a local grain seller with the ancient grains to try. The red has amazing flavor and high protein plus higher gluten levels that make fairly easy to work with for sandwich bread type loaves. But we still haven't figured out a good sour dough starter or the correct fermenting times yet.  One thing is even the failures taste awesome. 

At 6 to 10 dollars a loaf for good breads without chemical ingredients this definitely will save us money on healthier options plus gives us a chance to work on gluten free options for our granddaughter with a gluten allergy.  Join in and hopefully we can all learn about this together.  

Here's a video showing all the grains. 
Ancient Grains From Seneca Grain & Bean Local Organic Grain Haul, Cabbages And Bought A Mockmill 200 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/zLiScaAW6dg)

Very interesting stuff about the commercial flour. Along those lines we have a friend that thought he was allergic to apples until he was in his 30s. Turns out he's allergic to whatever gets sprayed on apples, we probably all are "allergic" to it :D

The women decided no little hurricane would deter them ::). When I talked to her last night they passed 5 wrecks in the rain around Raleigh on their way down. That left us to our own devices for eats, so deep fried hushpuppies for dinner  ;D. Very tasty, probably should have quit at 3 servings, but they come out hot, aren't worth a Dang later and you have to keep frying. I ought to be good for the next 5000 miles.

Haven't done much in awhile. Just had my second cataract done and having some issues with the first. Thought I would do a quick update. My wife has a pretty good fresh ground wheat pizza crust that I will post once we try a couple changes. Very tasty and hearty

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And just bought her a bread maker for taking such good care of me the last couple weeks. it's a Zojirushi BB-PDC20 that seems to be a good choice for fresh flour. It has programable cycles that can be developed for fresh ground grains and 2 powerful paddles with a standard 2 pound pan. Made our first wheat bread tonight that didn't come out perfect looking but it is awesome. Have to adjust the knead and rise times a little to get the perfect shape. What awesome flavor mixing red hard winter wheat and white hard summer wheat. Just dump a couple ingredients in the pan and less then 2 hours later a fresh organic loaf of bread with zero work. Hopefully in a couple weeks I will have some good videos about grinding and using the flour. 

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It ain't pretty but has excellent flavor and texture. I figured it cost about 75 cents worth of ingredients and electricity to make so there will be a good payback over time with bread going for over $5.00 a loaf now. Just love the smell of bread baking in the fall. First eye went from over 20 / 200 to 20 / 20 vision now and the second is about the same now but lost all my good near site so computer use with cheap readers sucks but have to wait several weeks for my brain to adjust before proper glasses can be made so not much video or computer work lately. 

Finally starting to get nice loafs. Figured out the Mockmill grinder makes the flour hot when grinding and it needs to be cooled down to room temperature before starting.  That seems to keep the yeast from being overactive messing with the rise time. Fresh out of the machine and it smells really good in here. Whole wheat  toast tomorrow morning. Messing with the ancient grains next. Seneca Grain finally has this year's crop of rye berries. I have to drive down and pick up a 50 pound bag next week.  Can't believe how good this machine works for quick sammich loaves. Have a power sifter coming tomorrow for making ap and bread flours. We are hooked. 

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First fire of the year today after being summer like last week.

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Wow perfect texture and taste. Need a bigger toaster.  digin_2 smiley_chef_hat

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Well the power sifter I bought arrived today. Can't believe how big it actually is. Came with a #40 and #60 mesh sieve. Pretty amazing how affordable and nice the Vevor stuff is. 

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This should really  speed things up and make less dust with the nice tight fitting cover.

Is it made that you can stack both sieves on at the same time? Then you would get three grades of product in one run.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on October 11, 2023, 02:40:05 PM
Is it made that you can stack both sieves on at the same time? Then you would get three grades of product in one run.

You could but would need longer springs and probably would become top heavy. Really just trying to remove all the pericarp from the whole wheat to make it appear whiter with less nutrition to mimic bread flour and shooting for 40 mesh or less grind. For cake flour will try the 60 mesh screen and will adapt my 20 mesh sifter for cornmeal. Just shooting for a uniform end product and learning on the job.

Here is the video I just made about getting started
https://youtu.be/SuEdCYVeT0M

21,
Great thread! And your bread loaves look just terrific.

In a couple of weeks I will do a post of how my floriani cornmeal comes out. I have the ears drying up in the rafters in a clean area and will be trying a small manual grinder from Colombia. 

Just a note on the eye surgery; I had double cataract surgery last June 2022 and also 2 lens implants for vision correction. Nothing but trouble ever since. The cataract cleaned up my vision just fine, but my left eye feels like a fried egg hung on a nail. I've been back to them and they tell me it will correct itself, but has not in almost 1-1/2 years. Having to use many different types of eye drops and I wish I'd never gone with the implants. Just my personal experience. Am back to wearing to glasses on top of the implants. What a waste of money. My 0.02$

Rob

Can't wait to see some other posts on here and your thoughts about the Floriani cornmeal comes out for your polenta. Supposed to be less starch in the flint corn then dent corn I use that gives it a whole different flavor. Add some info how the mill works.  

I just had the second one done last week and only got the single vision replacement lenses because that's all insurance would cover. Last week, after I ended drops on the first one the next day it started building up tremendous pressure and pain. The day after that was my second surgery and they loaded up the first eye with steroids to get it under control because I didn't want to delay the second another month. Back on drops for that one along with the drops for the new one and no more pain. I had worse then 20/200 in both eyes before and now have 20/20 in both for distance but lost all my nearsight vision. I am struggling with cheater glasses to read and use my computer until my brain settles in. I found Milwaukee safety glasses with built in cheaters for driving and shopping.  My cataracts went from good vision to basically no vision in 6 months so it feels good to see again. I feel old though  because  the surgeon was about the same age as my granddaughter.  

we have ground hard red winter wheat hard white wheat and some field corn the corn seemed to get quite hot and wanted to gum the grinding burrs. My wife has been making some tasty loaves of bread using 3 cups of our whole wheat flour which would be a mix of hard red and winter white wheat with a lot of kneading and a slow rising it turns out great could very easily put on some weight doing this. We tried corn bread but we are not big fans of corn bread. So that has been our journey so far

You need to soak that cornbread in maple syrup. ;D

I did use the cornbread recipe posted above to make waffles over the weekend. I tried maple surple, honey and raspberry/chocolate on them. I'm sure part of it is cultural, what one is raised on, school lunch often had grits or cornbread... bad grits  :D.

The peppers are coming in, have been coming in, are rotting on the vine, we're swimming in peppers. I tried roasting some, dicing a cup and adding it to a batch of cornbread. I should have diced very fine, a few wet squishy chunks, the flavor was better the next day once it all came together. I think I'll try fresh peppers and a little less next try. A couple of batches of cheese grits and attempted polenta. I think that is a northern thing, someone is going to have to school me.

The sound of stones touching is fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears, is that not dulling and glazing them? I can see polish on a couple of small spots where mine have touched and can smell the rock when they do. A miller would box my ears for doing that. I've run that "rocked" grain and a bit more out for the chickens the 2 times I've touched, but those are natural stones that are dressed to sharpen them, I'm not sure what is in the mockmill.

Do a search on "hopper boy". In an Evans style mill it was a powered rake that spread the flour out and moved it around to cool it after grinding. I think getting it spread out thin and a few stirrings will help cool it. When proofing yeast, the water needs to pass the wrist test, just like baby's milk... less than ~120°F I think. The flour needs to be at least that cool. Brewer's run much cooler before pitching yeast, below 90 if I remember right. The heat is probably killing the yeast partway through the rise.

With that mockmill for a fine grind you adjust the stones till they kiss and then back it off a hair. They aren't real stone and it doesn't seem to bother them. They seem too small to dissipate the heat from friction and transfer it to the flour. Funny  that no one mentioned that in the videos about them making money off the sales. The instant yeast used for machines has more tolerance for heat and cold. I think heat actually causes it to rise too much too fast and then it droops when baking. You can even use cold water for European style breads. 
This machine actually works good when adjustments are made for fresh flour and nothing like deodorizing the house with the smell of fresh bread. Have to figure out the timer to wake to the smell of fresh cooking bread. 
I actually can get a finer grind and cooler flour from the Vevor machine but my wife isn't afraid of the mockmill. Need a bigger toaster and bigger pants  ;D 

A perfect loaf of white sandwich bread.  At 7.5 inches tall have to cut it in half for a sandwich  ;D

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Took 4.5 minutes of my time to make and the machine spit this out in a little over 2 hours. My wife is calling it her easy bake oven.

Now that's bread!!!!

Corn bread made with fresh ground Wapsie Valley Corn  using the machine recipe.  musteat_1 food6 digin1.
Great flavor and texture.  I used a fine grind for the corn and wheat.  

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My pants are getting tight  :o. 

New experiment today. Drove down and got a 50 pound bag of 2023 organic rye berries that were just harvested and processed.  Decided to modify the whole wheat recipe in the bread maker book. Instead of all wheat,  I used 1 cup fresh ground rye flour, 1 cup fresh ground spelt flour,  and took about 2 1/2 cups of fresh ground red winter wheat to get to the weight in the recipe. It smells so good and has a sour rye aroma  digin1.  The house smells sooooo good now. 

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Another perfect loaf from that crazy machine. Tell you how it tastes tomorrow.  Cranking out another Wapsie Valley Corn bread tomorrow.  

Stuff that's come in this week;
Big Sis's husband came in 2nd place at the state fair in Raleigh for his bread last week. He does make good bread.

Pierce's Mill outside of DC is grinding this weekend and hosting the grain alliance, millers, bakers, etc.

An email from these folks came in and reminded me where I'd seen a good selection of varieties;
Dent, Flint & Flour Corn (southernexposure.com) (https://www.southernexposure.com/categories/dent-flint-flour-corn/)

There is a pair of newish introductions (I think research began 20 years ago), "Revolt" and "Rebellion" bred to be resistant to GMO pollen. They crossed a yellow dent with popcorn, a fine silked flint, to create an open pollinated corn with a silk that the GMO pollen cannot travel down.
Varieties – Green Haven (openpollinated.com) (https://openpollinated.com/varieties/)

This is a mill my partner knows, a couple of hours north of us in some of his old shoeing grounds.
Investing in Soil Health Practices - Part 2: Deep Roots Milling - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca5tt-cRJyQ)

Great source for the corn seeds Don P. Love those big water powered mills.

Toast this morning and the flavor was awesome.  A honey wheat light rye nutty flavor that we love. Going to try adding 7 grain cereal to the next one. Never realized this good of a bread could be made by machine. Going to try same dough in the oven also after rolling in cornmeal for a real crispy crust.

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You guys are doing great!!!!
Wife use to make bread. Nothing like the flour you guys are using.
Enjoy!!!!!
It all looks good. 
Yes, we use to hear the complaint when she was selling it about not fitting in a toaster.  ::)  Just cut it in half!!!

Before you know it, you'll be selling artisan bread. Use the right buzz words and won't be able to keep the shelves stocked. ;)

Quote from: thecfarm on October 21, 2023, 09:31:07 AM
You guys are doing great!!!!
Wife use to make bread. Nothing like the flour you guys are using.
Enjoy!!!!!
It all looks good.
Yes, we use to hear the complaint when she was selling it about not fitting in a toaster.  ::)  Just cut it in half!!!

Thanks, the flavor of fresh grain really makes it amazing.  When you're old and have arthritis these machines are worth trying.
That's the mistake you made that kept you from becoming a bread tycoon.  You should have been selling wide slot toasters to those who complained for a big profit.  More then one way to skin a cat.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 21, 2023, 09:51:21 AM
Before you know it, you'll be selling artisan bread. Use the right buzz words and won't be able to keep the shelves stocked. ;)

Hard to keep up with our consumption.  All the relatives want to move in with  us when ww3 breaks out after seeing the 400 pounds of grains in the root cellar.  Going to try cooking whole wheat berries to see how good they are whole. 

21"r, what's the connection between commercial flour and arthritis?  (Did I miss the medical reports earlier in this thread?). I've been making all my loaf bread for at least twenty years now but just using King Arthurs bread flour. I know that fresh ground flour makes better tasting bread, but didn't know there were benefits for arthritis. 

I'm not really in a position time-wise to get into grinding my own although it is interesting and produces better bread. Maybe I better start buying quality wheat and a grinder for medical reasons. 

BTW - I've been using a Zorijusi (sp?) machine for ten years now and well worth the extra money. Like sawmills and many other things, you get what you pay for.  Replaced the pan twice, but no issues beyond that. 

After using my own loaf bread for so long, any loaf bread from the store is inedible, especially considering the price of a loaf of bread. 

This thead is very educational. Thanks to you snd Don P for taking us all along!

I said when you have arthritis a bread machine is the way to go. Kneading really can get painful and the machine handles that part. That machine does an awesome job and allows custom programs for home ground recipes. 

Actually from what I have read commercial flours are stripped of all the good natural vitamins and minerals  and then have to have some added back and chemically treated to meet USDA nutrition requirements.  Also chemically treated for color. Home ground flour is far superior nutritionally to commercially milled wheat. Freshly ground hard red wheat has twice the calcium  and phosphorus,  twice the amount of crucial  B vitamins  niacin (B3) and thiamine  (B1), and nearly twice the riboflavin  (B2). It also has 3 times the iron and 4 times the potassium  according to the USDAs nutrient database. Wheat has 40 of the 44 nutrients considered essential to sustain human life when not stripped out by processing.  That Sue Becker book has a good explanation of the benefits of grinding your own. Wheat berries will store up to 25 years whole but once ground start degrading so basically the flour most buy is already past due when purchased.  Also there are many that have problems  with gluten but are not celiac diagnosed.  Using grains with lower gluten can often help them without having to spend a fortune. 

The biggest reason  for us is the flavors and blending different grains to come up with new  flavors and textures. Plus having a low cost supply of nutritious grains to get through whatever may come next. 
It sure would be hard to go back to store bread for us now also. It only costs us a couple cents to make a good loaf of bread now. Garbage white commercial sandwich  bread going for 5 bucks a loaf now so payback shouldn't take too long. Finding a small local mill that just grinds the grain and doesn't seperate it is a good way to get started without a big investment but only buy what can be used quickly or it will store a couple weeks in the freezer. 

 

Well that's more good info and makes me want to grind some flour. Your research on little mills and such gives me a great head start. When I finally get through my three plus year moving process I hope to be able to take on a new adventure like grinding my own flour. (In addition to all the other things like woodworking, metal work, sawmilling, etc., etc.). Right now things like sleeping and eating don't want to fit on the schedule!  

There's a good mill about 75 miles west of me that produces excellent stone ground flour, cornmeal, and grits (Amherst Milling Co.) but I never asked them about flour that hasn't been separated.  I would imagine that could be provided. It's just far enough away that it wouldn't work out to go there often though. I do think I'll start accumulating some things to pursue this though. You've basically established a template here that I can follow.  I think it would be worth pursuing. After all, I only have about thirty or forty different interests to spend time on.  Ha!  

Even now, the bread I turn out is very good.  Last time I ran the numbers it was about 0.65 a loaf. A couple times I've wanted to take short break from making the bread but one loaf of store bought bread purs me right back to making my own.

How did your rye bread turn out?  Looks real good.  My one attempt at rye bread was a bust.  Just used the recipe in the Zojirushi book. Rye ratio was way too high and really not fit to eat. It was an excellent masonry product though and with enough loaves like that I could have laid a very sturdy foundation for a timber frame. 

I used the whole wheat recipe for the machine (3 hour 10 minute cycle ). Instead of all hard red wheat I used 1 cup of fresh ground  rye berries,  1 cup fresh ground spelt, and about 2 1/2 cups red wheat.  I went by total grams when adding  the wheat. All were ground very fine. The spelt toned down the wheat  flavor with a sweet nutty flavor and the rye was perfect with the honey flavor weused insteadof sugar.  It's  now our favorite mix. Going to make a mix of seeds to try adding to it next. Looking at sunflower, flax, chia, and several  others to add before the last kneading.  

A nearby farm is going to start cover cropping with wheat so I've been running down some rabbit holes. And wondering if I can single pass mill wheat without too much coarse "Cream of Wheat" cereal left on top of the screen.  I had seen the "Falling Number" listed for wheat when buying from several suppliers. I was curious. It is a test for how long it takes the stirring rod to fall to the bottom of a test tube full of a precise warm flour slurry. Nowadays falling number is often measured electronically with the truck on the scales waiting to come in.

At the end of the day, it is sort of a "damage" number in this use. A high number in the high 300 second range means the grain develops good gluten and has little alpha amylase enzyme activity going on. A low number means the grain is or has, tried to break dormancy and sprout. Was the grain harvested dry and the first time it was dry enough, or was it rewetted and warm.

Alpha amylase is the stuff in mammal saliva that converts starch to sugar. It is present in grain as well and is what turns starch to sugar to supply energy to the plant. A low, or fast, falling number is the sign of starch conversion... in preparation for sprouting. With a low number, the stirring rod sank quickly through less glutinous flour, more sticky starch has been converted to sugar. The bread won't stick together or rise as well.

If you're converting grain to fermentable simple sugars, beer, this is one of the crucial enzyme steps in whole grain brewing.

The number given in the link below I think needs to be taken with a grain. I know different varieties have more or less gluten and some of the white wheats want to sprout at or before harvest. I think one would expect a lower falling number out of those sweet wheats. Which also might get into what 21incher was talking about with high gluten and wheat intolerance. Falling number might give a clue as to tolerance level. Or are those folks having an enzyme issue? Above my pay. Anyway, you want high numbers for a keeper.

What is a falling number and what does it mean about your wheat? (vt.edu) (https://www.sites.ext.vt.edu/newsletter-archive/cses/2007-06/falling_number.html#:~:text=A%20falling%20number%20test%20measures,seed%2C%20greatly%20reducing%20flour%20quality.)

So after a year of planning, growing, and dreaming of making my own polenta last night I gave it a try. I sent the Floriani corn through a Colombian made mill and boiled it up with water and a little butter for dinner along with some Italian wine. The flavor was great but a little chewy. I couldn't help think about my Aunt stirring polenta at the stove in the early 60's for what seemed like hours. This morning I made some fried polenta fingers outside by the BBQ. Tonight, I will fry some sage and try another bottle of vino and maybe some lamb. Cheers !
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Looks great,  now you have to try some other corn varieties to compare it to. Is that Floriani corn the same as what Italians call 8 row corn?

Well Don P you are like my old Jack Russell chasing rabbits down holes. The variety and gluten content is a whole science by itself.  Good thing the grain processors verify it when buying. Nobody wants crummy bread. Then throw soft wheat and ancient  grains in the mix plus yeast rising or baking powder rising and it becomes overwhelming to newbies like me. Another thing we have have switched to because of research is aluminum free baking powder. Seems most commercial bakeries use baking powder that for some reason contains aluminum powder that doesn't make sense to me. It can actually leave a metallic after taste in your  mouth that can spoil the flavor of baked goods using it.

I have been running cheap rice through that Mockmill after grinding corn to clean the stones. And then doing the same after wheat berries to prevent rancidness or traces of wheat in the next grind. I start with a coarse grind and then send it through a couple times getting finer every time. Doesn't seem to leave a flavor and actually cleans the fake stones good.

We are going to play with the Einkorn grain next as it's supposed to boost immunity along with preventing cancer and heart disease according to the internet. Einkorn is a pure diploid wheat with anti inflammatory properties. I have an auto immune issue since my second  covid vaccine and am hoping there is some truth to all the hype about ancient grains.

Every time we grind flour for bread there is a little leftover that we place in a plastic container in the freezer.  It is a mix of everything we grind. This week it was hard red, hard white,  soft white,  and spelt. My wife made waffles with it this morning and they were great. What flavor and texture  compared to the Bisquick we used to use. Great way to enjoy the extra. A little butter  and my backyard maple syrup and a nice breakfast. 

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Another thing I have run across is many are sprouting the wheat berries over night to make the flours more digestible. They sprout overnight then put them in a 115° dehydrator to dry before grinding. Apparently it makes more nutrients available with less stress on people with digestive issues. 
 Another cornbread in the machine  8)

I watched a good video explaining falling number, enzyme starch conversion, etc;

What is the Falling Number Test - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMjhdSskXP0)

Which relates to brewing, that is the same enzyme that converts starch in cereal grains to fermentable sugar. It cuts the long chain starch into simple short chain sugars, maltose, glucose, etc.

Amylase, aka diastase is a digestive enzyme, it is present in saliva and is what makes a starch on your tongue become sweet if held there. It is fast, I think each molecule can clip something like 3000 starch molecules into shorter simple chain sugars per second. When a base malt like well malted barley, one with high diastatic potential... lots of free, leftover alpha amylase, is mixed into a high starch mash, it will convert the starch to sugar within an hour. You can buy diastatic malt powder in small quantities for baking from King Arthur,
or the grain itself;
High Diastatic Power Distiller's Malt - Rahr - 55 lb. Sack (northernbrewer.com) (https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/distillers-malt-rahr-55-lb-sack?variant=42599184597173&gclid=CjwKCAjw1t2pBhAFEiwA_-A-NIgyHxGSVe6i9cKQk5ZoB4thw706JIIDvstWkCcCZueJrJspKOA0dxoCg1oQAvD_BwE)

Somewhere in there for a baker there must be a time/temp equation going on when the malt and yeast are added. The malt feeds the yeast but harms the gluten?

I could probably sell sprouted/dried and coarse ground cornmeal here.

Supposed to make the best corn bread ever not needing flour. Look at the price they get for it
https://healthyflour.com/product/organic-sprouted-yellow-corn-flour/

Tried switching out soft white wheat for the hard red in this cornbread try and need to add a little more moisture to make it look pretty.  Flavor is great. I love being able to eat the mistakes.  My wife  got smart and started a notebook tracking exactly what we make and suggestions for improvements. Amazing how switching out flour can make a big difference. 

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Quote from: 21incher on October 22, 2023, 01:06:15 PM
Another thing we have have switched to because of research is aluminum free baking powder. Seems most commercial bakeries use baking powder that for some reason contains aluminum powder that doesn't make sense to me. It can actually leave a metallic after taste in your  mouth that can spoil the flavor of baked goods using it.

Yeah, they have that in Maine to. You can get Bakewell instead in Maine, maybe NY to. Mom's aunt lived in Maine and she used that.
Bakewell Cream Baking Powder - King Arthur Baking Company (https://shop.kingarthurbaking.com/items/bakewell-cream-baking-powder)
I always use Magic Baking Powder brand here in Canada, no Aluminum in it either.
https://avron.ca/en/baking-powder-magic.html

Basically nearly the same stuff as Bakewell.

Well another not pretty but really good loaf. European Sesame Bread.  I made a mistake buying that Mockmill.  I didn't grind the flour ahead of time and let it cool. The flour comes out of the Mockmill extremely hot and the temp screws up the European style breads and I know this so the ugliness is my fault. Have to get that Vevor mill setup and go back to that. Good thing ugly is only crust deep.  ;D

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Carved pumpkins and going to try the seeds in a loaf once we dry and peel them.

 
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Made a nice lunch. Goes great with liverworst and aged cheddar. A real hearty European bread from the breadmaker cookbook. 

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You can even make bread from buckwheat, gluten free of course. I see all kinds of folks making it on Youtube. I would guess them to be heavy chewier breads. Some of them are more like sweet breads as well, many just simple bread. Some would take getting used to. :D

What I enjoy on artisan breads or a bagel is some nice Brie cheese. It's soft and mild, and somewhat spreadable. Put some home made jam on if you want. It's better than creamed cheese because it hasn't all the additives, and no carrageenan crap in it.

Ingredients are usually something like pasteurized milk, pasteurized cream, salt, bacterial culture, microbial enzyme, penicillium candidum (makes the thin rind). :)

We also like the Brie. Costco has a great deal on their Kirkland brand that is pretty good and big enough for a week. We make apple butter that's nice on the whole wheat pancakes. 
I have to be careful with buckwheat because it's like draino if I eat too much :o. 

Buckwheat has never had that effect on me, eat it every day that I go to the woods. Cooking pancakes up this morning, has spelt, an egg, and baking powder in it. From scratch.

Yesterday my wife made a loaf of white on her own using some old bread flour she found in the closet. Came out good but no flavor. Used it for PB & Elderberry jelly sandwiches.  

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I've been down for a couple days on antibiotics.  Somehow during the cataract surgeries I picked up a nasty sinus infection that completely plugged my ears. They are not sure but it looks like stopping the antibiotic eye drops may have had something to do with it.  They could have been enough to delay it but not kill it. Could hear again today and went to Costco.  They had 12 inch 4 pound pumpkin pies for 6 bucks again this year and I bought one. Comfort food.

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Also got a good deal on a 22 inch Blackstone grill to try making whole wheat pitas and flat breads.
My wife and I got flu shots while I was at the doctor's a couple days ago. Didn't  bother me but she got very sick the next day with vomiting and diarrhea and now started getting a rash on her back. Always something.  

I won't touch store bought pie. :D

We make squash pie here from scratch from garden winter squash. Lard used in the crust. Canned pumpkin up here costs more than that pie. $7.50 a can. :D

Stores want $2.69/lb for buttercup squash. I can buy 50 lb bags for $20 from the farmer. :D

Another looks ugly but tastes good loaf. Have to start removing the dough and shaping it before the bake cycle on the hearty breads. Learning on the job and eating mistakes  :D .

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The crows and blue jays will eat what you won't.  :D :D

Well another ugly loaf. This is an amazing honey wheat made with hard red wheat.  Boy is it good. I am too lazy to take the dough out and shape it on these hearty breads so we will have to live with ugly bread. 

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Just ordered a different mill because I am not happy with that Mockmill.  Terribly slow, a real pain to clean properly,  and super hot flour. Going to try an impact mill next. Once I finish up redoing our basement kitchen the Vevor will be used as it makes the best flour. Ordered a gas stove with 18,000 BTU front burners for canning so soon all the canning,  baking,  and grinding will be done downstairs.  

Ugly?  ???
I will eat that bread any day.  digin_2

Wife use to make bread. That was when I could eat what ever I wanted and eat all I wanted too. 
The bread she made would only keep about 3 maybe 4 days, then it would turn green. Really never had a chance to change colors around me.  ;D

The Wonder Mill finally arrived. Now we have a impact mill, burr mill, and stone mill. Hopefully this works better then the Mockmill.  I talked to the company before  buying it and was told the flour usually  comes out about 104 degrees.  That's 30 degrees  cooler then what I have seen with the Mockmill. 

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Supposed to be no dust from this one with everything enclosed and a filter. Will see tomorrow. 

The new grinder is good. Flour came out at about 98 degrees with a fine grind. Mixed 2 cups red hard berries, 1 cup rye  berries, and one cup of Einkorn berries before grinding and the bread came out wonderful using that in the machines wheat bread recipe and course 2. Didn't shape it so a slight dip in the middle but a much better rise then the hot flour from the Mockmill we were using. Finally getting the right texture with more chew and less crumble. The Einkorn adds sort of a nutty flavor that goes great with the rye. Our new favorite 😋

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I love it when a plan starts coming together.  We are going to use the Mockmill for corn as that doesn't use yeast to rise so heat doesn't matter.  

You will also find quite a difference if you just use the machine to mix it and the first raise. Then transfer to pans and raise it and cook it. Mother finds machine cooked bread to have heavy crust and different texture.

I ground ~25 lbs of corn yesterday and sent out a 50 from a storage tote for bambi. I've met the corn weevil now. I need to find some airtight drums and rig up a CO2 setup before restocking. One way that has been used is to put rotting vegetable matter in the grain storage to provide the CO2. Diatomaceous earth is another non toxic way and then it gets into listed chemicals which I want to avoid. I saw one organic supplier vacuum seals with a partial pressure of CO2 in the bag.

 I checked temp at the end of the run, the meal was in the 70's, the air temp was mid 50's during the run so I think there was around a 15 degree rise, I was not pushing the mill at all and ground in around 30 minutes. It took half a day with setup cleanup and teardown and I need to clean the truck once more. Just terminology, mine is a stone burr mill, a "burr mill" can be either stone or steel. I needed 3 loaves for an event but had to make 4, the bottom stuck on one. I've found the cornbread works better if I withhold the melted butter till just as I go into the oven and pour it on the top of the batter. Seems to give a better rise without it in the batter and it releases better. I saw that in one youtube.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 15, 2023, 04:02:28 AM
You will also find quite a difference if you just use the machine to mix it and the first raise. Then transfer to pans and raise it and cook it. Mother finds machine cooked bread to have heavy crust and different texture.

This machine actually cooks it perfectly and is very energy efficient. We have to do the shaping step for pretty looking loaves.

Quote from: Don P on November 15, 2023, 06:27:31 AM
I ground ~25 lbs of corn yesterday and sent out a 50 from a storage tote for bambi. I've met the corn weevil now. I need to find some airtight drums and rig up a CO2 setup before restocking. One way that has been used is to put rotting vegetable matter in the grain storage to provide the CO2. Diatomaceous earth is another non toxic way and then it gets into listed chemicals which I want to avoid. I saw one organic supplier vacuum seals with a partial pressure of CO2 in the bag.

I checked temp at the end of the run, the meal was in the 70's, the air temp was mid 50's during the run so I think there was around a 15 degree rise, I was not pushing the mill at all and ground in around 30 minutes. It took half a day with setup cleanup and teardown and I need to clean the truck once more. Just terminology, mine is a stone burr mill, a "burr mill" can be either stone or steel. I needed 3 loaves for an event but had to make 4, the bottom stuck on one. I've found the cornbread works better if I withhold the melted butter till just as I go into the oven and pour it on the top of the batter. Seems to give a better rise without it in the batter and it releases better. I saw that in one youtube.

I have seen a video recommending a chunk of dry ice in each container before sealing the lid in place. Apparently that provides enough Co2 to kill the buggers and keep the hidden eggs from hatching. Mylar bags that fit 5 gallon buckets are widely used also. They seal with a thing that looks like a woman's curling iron. 

Well today it was emmer and hard white wheat 50 / 50 mix and another new amazing flavor. Lower gluten but still great texture and looking pretty good with the new mill. I keep finding new favorites. 

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That bread machine is awesome. 

A video showing the Wondermill working in the beginning. 
 https://youtu.be/EMXrVKNKruw (https://youtu.be/EMXrVKNKruw)
It's a good compromise when I don't  want to fire up the big Vevor.  The Mockmill will only  be used for coarse cornmeal. Made a mistake wasting money on that. 

Oh well, we learn by trying. Hobbies are expensive. ;)

I've been skeptical of Vevor ever since that tomato mill fail. Might as well buy a trusted brand than one that may not work as advertised, then end up buying a good one anyway. Over the years I have discovered this many times, even when buying shoes. ;)

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 25, 2023, 03:48:29 AM
Oh well, we learn by trying. Hobbies are expensive. ;)

I've been skeptical of Vevor ever since that tomato mill fail. Might as well buy a trusted brand than one that may not work as advertised, then end up buying a good one anyway. Over the years I have discovered this many times, even when buying shoes. ;)

Actually I have had nothing  but good experiences with Vevor stuff so far. The chamber  sealer  has done well over a thousand  bags with not one bad seal. The flour  grinder is amazing and I now just about have an area setup for it in my basement for big batches of flour that will be sifted and frozen for bread flour. I just re-did my basement  kitchen with some of their stainless backsplashes and shelves along with boat carpet that are wonderful.  I bought many  of their tools and a big diesel tank for my shop with all being  decent  quality.  It's about  the same as buying from Harbor freight where the quality is getting better everyday and it's affordable.  That Mockmill was a very expensive  German machine that was very disappointing. The wondermill was about 1/2 the price  and does a good job for my wife with a lifetime warranty.  
I just got a big commercial Vevor meat slicer for my basement kitchen to slice meat for jerky  and cube steaks along with veggies  like cabbage for sauerkraut and so far its working great but it's scary  and I just ordered  some cut proof level 9 food grade gloves. I've had problems  since the covid vaccine with my joints and it gets painful to use a knife for long periods so this should let me keep on keeping on.

The big problem with that particular tomato mill I have was that the screw that pushes the tomatoes along is plastic and it was not sending the seeds and the skins out the end as it's suppose to, it was going into the sauce. Also nothing for documentation worth a hoot. When it came all the gear oil was leaked out and it's shipped in the box upside down. When asked for gear oil to replace it, they were dodgy, evasive and would not answer direct questions but gave a spiel from a script that had no relevance. I could tell that English was not their native tongue from their writing.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 25, 2023, 12:10:24 PM
The big problem with that particular tomato mill I have was that the screw that pushes the tomatoes along is plastic and it was not sending the seeds and the skins out the end as it's suppose to, it was going into the sauce. Also nothing for documentation worth a hoot. When it came all the gear oil was leaked out and it's shipped in the box upside down. When asked for gear oil to replace it, they were dodgy, evasive and would not answer direct questions but gave a spiel from a script that had no relevance. I could tell that English was not their native tongue from their writing.

If you ever get to that point again with a Chinese company just contact PayPal and tell them you want a refund.  The only feedback  I have had is they don't offer replacement parts during warranty.  They either send a new one or refund the money and tell you to find someone to fix it or scrap it. Most problems are caused by shipping damage. Not having  UL listing is my biggest concern so I disassemble them to check wiring when receiving and so far it all looks good. 

Well after paying $7.00 for 2 -12oz bags of Pepperidge Farm seasoned bread crumbs for the Thanksgiving stuffing I decided to try making my own.  Chopped up the end of a loaf, put it on a tray on the woodstove for a while and the best whole wheat crumbs ever. just have to work on the seasoning part.

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Commercial bread products prices are going crazy and supposed to be another big wheat price increase on the way.

Well, wheat price is not a bad thing, but processors always win there. Most of them steal a % off the top anyway from fickle grading practices. Sure no shortage up here, we grow way more than we eat. Saskatchewan alone grows more than enough for Canada.  Was dryer this year but yield never changed much on wheat. 43 bushels per acre, last year 43.5 , durum was 24. Doom and gloom types are just trying to move markets.

Yeah, it's easy to make dried bread cubes. Just have to play with the spices to suit your taste, as you say.

I'm surprised I missed this!  I mill my own whole wheat and Rye flours and bake with them.  Have done for about 15 years or more now.

When on my PC I'll respond but overall I love it!  Vital Wheat gluten is important to success and I think dough enhancers are as well 

A little known secret is that this old jarhead bakes a lot ;)  I sometimes (very rarely) put it on a YT channel that I don't do much with and you can see my grain mill here and the recipe that I use to make super awesome homemade 100% whole wheat or Whole wheat 10 grain breads (and others).
Delicious 10 Grain Honey Whole Wheat Bread! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdjM7WIaXaU)

I haven't bought bread in a very long time :) 8)

Something to be said about a man that likes his own cook'n. :D 

Good look'n bread there.  :)

Looks good. We make a loaf of whole wheat bread every 3 days. Our favorites are 1/2 hard red berries and 1/2 Einkorn berries with sunflower seeds for sandwiches and 1/2 hard white berries and 1/2 Emmer berries for toasting. We have some of the 7 grain cereal but haven't tried that yet with my wife's diverticulitis flaring up lately. Still haven't  come up with a good spelt bread.

Just read an article that white bread and colon cancer could have ties where the whole wheat breads actually contain compounds that help fight the formation of cancer cells. Once you get used to the flavor of bread made with fresh ground grains you definitely can't  go back to store bought.  

Awesome.   I usually make mine in groups.  3 ir 4 loaves of sourdough, 3 or 4 loaves of WW and so on.  I usually always have different loaves in the freezer so I can have whatever the mood drives me too 😉

With the bread machine there basically is no mess so we just make it fresh. We now just put the pan on the scale and weight everything. Then just have to wipe  out the flour catch tub a measure  cup, tablespoon, and the pan when it cools. Takes less then 10 minutes and the machine does the rest. Using fresh ground the weight works better  for us then volume. 

Thinking about buying  some roasted groats and a flaker next as the commercial rolled oats have a very short lifespan. We like the oats in bread and have read fresh rolled have better flavor.

We get a type of cereal that comes from Armstrong, BC. A small community that makes a lot of stuff, such as cheeses also. That works in multigrain bread to. Might not be fresh ground, but who knows how long the stuff laid around in a sack before you get it and crush it. Some stuff keeps for years untouched, but it the right conditions, others not so much.

I can remember buying ready made cement many times. And they often store the stuff in leaky sheds and a few bags would be compromised by either a skid steer puncture or rough handling, so the end product was very poor. Plastic lining ain't much good when it's punctured. Trouble was, everyone selling it stored and handled it the same in these parts. The paper outer shell was always water stained and tore up unless in the middle of the pile. Take it or leave it attitude to go with it. :D

I've either purchased my wheat in buckets or put it in mylar and buckets right away so have had no issue with any grains I've bought.  I was fortunate that my neighbors were members of the LDS church which believes in having a 1 year food supply so they knew all the good places to get grains ;) I lucked out there!

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Honey Whole Wheat Oatmeal Bread

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Whole Wheat Cracked Wheat Bread

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I wore out a KitchenAid making flour so eventually bought the motor for the mill and it works much better and I haven't worn out the mixer since :)

Reminds me, I need to make more bread!

I was lucky to find a local Amish business for my grains. Senecagrainandbean.com. They supply quite a few high end NY city bakeries.  We started with close to 400 pounds thinking it would  last years but we seem to be going through it faster then I thought we would. I'm just using the gamma lids now. Just put a corn bread in the bread machine. 

400 lbs is a lot of grain :D  Go through 75 lbs of flour here a year. I'm not a person to eat bread with a meat dish, because of starchy vegetables. Never did. I'll have it with beans, or soup or a sandwich meal or morning toast now and again. Cornmeal bread, what we call Johny cake up here, is eaten with baked beans on Saturday or else home made buttermilk biscuit with the beans. I'll use it up during the week with butter and maple syrup and peanut butter sometimes on it with the syrup.

Have you tried boiling  up the wheat berries for soup, stews, and salads?  They are awesome,  the soft take about 1/2 hour and hard take about an hour to cook. Amazing how fast the grains disappear.

Not me, no. I usually put nuts, seeds, and dried fruit on the cooked cereal. Even start out with a Cortland apple in the boiling water with cinnamon added, then cook in the cereal. Other stuff on top after cooked. Stick with your ribs.

Making multigrain bread here this afternoon. Got one of them Kitchenaid mixers to test out to see if it's working out of the box. I actually got the better SS attachments besides the ones in the box. You can tell the difference in the quality of materials used between the two sets.

Remember no pics and it didn't really happen  :D
Today tried a loaf using all soft white wheat for the first time. Excellent flavor and texture but not pretty.  Thinking I should have added some gluten due to yhe lower protein and gluten content of soft wheat. Still tastes great.

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Tough learning on the job  ;D

I have enjoyed your bread making you nave inspired us. Today we when on a road trip to the Mennonite bulk foods store and bought some more hard winter wheat hard red and Enkorn wheat my wife just took a loaf out of the oven smells great . thank yo for this thread. We tried to post a picture but could not do it there is a pic in my profile. Randy

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I think the trick with home ground flour is to always plan on using Vital Wheat Gluten and Dough Enhancers in the dough.  For a 4 1/2lbs recipe I use 2-3TBS of Vital Wheat Gluten and 1TBS of enhancer because home ground flours are always lower than what you can buy at the store.  Store bought 'bread flour' is blended to ensure high gluten for bread making.

I'll dig up my recipe if you like, it's pretty much guarantied to produce excellent bread!  Soft and tasty.

I use it as a base recipe and add to it as desired, so for example I made some Honey, Whole Wheat, Oatmeal, Chia bread yesterday.  I like big loaves for sandwiches so make a triple batch and divide it in two ;)  When scaling like that though, you can to scale the yeast etc differently (not just 3x for 3 loaves) so the recipe is based on 1 1/2lbs and I have a table to scale from there.

One key factor is to NEVER use Chlorinated water, iodized salt or bleached flour.  Chlorine, iodine and bleach kill bugs which make the bread rise so you get poorer loaves if using those 3.  Of course, home milling eliminates the bleach but the other two are important to note (I have a small stock of seasalt with no iodine and we don't have chlorine in our water.

I also use honey and olive oil vs sugar and vegetable oil for whole grains (I don't use either in my whites) which aid in making the soft crumb.

For the look I use an egg and cream wash (1 egg plus 2oz of cream - about) right before baking.  Gives that darker shinier loaf!

I'll post pics of yesterday's loaves!

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I've use Red Mill's gluten. But I never used it the other day in the bread. I divided it in two but put it in the same pan. That way I just break it apart when out of the oven and freeze one half. I have extra long bread pans and deeper than we can buy locally. I wish they were an inch wider, but it is what it is. :D They come with covers if your cooking at over 400 F, and don't want to burn the crust up, you don't fully close it, they slide on.

I use a recipe from online. It's not complicated. I've made bread for years. ;) I've even made bread with nut flour, it's more of a sweet bread type, and some rich. :D

We made a harvest cake today, using one of the big bread pans. We cut in thirds. It's sorta a fruit cake, but not as heavy. Old recipe mother has had for 50 years. We used to make Christmas Stollen, but I don't want to eat sweets all winter, I won't want to move by spring. :D :D

Carry on gentlemen. ;D

Well today was just a simple corn / soft white wheat bread. Used my maple syrup in it instead of sugar. nice flavor  digin_2

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We experimented with making tortillas yesterday and failed because the dough was too wet. So, I ended up forming one giant, thick tortilla cake and slowly cooked it on a cast iron pizza pan on the stove top. It came out really tasty with taco filling, salsa and onion and cilantro to top it. Ugly, but flavourful!
Today we ground a bunch of corn and are going to try to pre-cook then bake polenta into a cake to have tonight with a tomato/meat sauce. 
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Tule,
I'll bet it was very tasty!
I have been using a wood ash wash for making nixtimal with our dried Floriana corn. The first batch I made i added too much water and it was mushy like you had. The next time I made it I left the corn to soak an extra day and was sparing with the water a and the results were worth it. We made meatless tortillas using beans and tomatoes from our garden.

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Paul, Thanks for the tips. We ground some dry Floriani today and made a Polenta "pie" that was served with the last of our fresh garden tomatoes tonight. We will keep tuning up the recipe.
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Sometimes we make flaws, but they taste just as good. ;) Then again, there is always the crows looking for a freebie. ;D

If they are so bad that the crows get them, I would  say find another hobby  :o
Today  we finished up the chicken, soft white wheat , and bean soup along  with the maple syrup corn bread  food3. Love the flavor of the wheat berries in everything.  Never realized they are good for more than just flour  :P

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We've always used barley in soup, but never used wheat.

We always share with the crows. They get a heal or the mouldy stuff. We don't eat a lot of bread, and after about 5 days home made bread grows whiskers. :D

A pan of cornbread is quite a lot, we share some of that with the crows to. ;D

Some people don't like crows.

A couple towns over in Auburn NY they used to have a crow shoot every year  fudd-smiley.  They probably come down from Canada looking for good food ;D.  They have a big problem with crows but some crow lovers put an end to the event  :o
We just ordered a simple grain roller /  flaker to try. Want to try making fresh oatmeal and flaked grains to add to our breads. The harder grains need to be soaked a little so they roll and don't fragment but groats are supposedly soft enough to just roll. Made in Italy by Marcato (Marga Mulino )  and a motor can be added if we like it. Found the best  price in Canada and hopefully it will make it across the border

Whole wheat chestnut stuffing made with my bread cubes. First test but what flavor. Next one will have sausage now that I know how good they work.

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White bread  again.  Got so high it hit the door and messed the top and blew. Out when we took it out. This was made with  commercial bread flour because grandkids don't like whole wheat  >:(. 

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For some reason, don't ask why because it don't make sense, mom tried some of that frozen white bread dough. But the instructions are not correct, they say leave in fridge to thaw then raise in the morning. Well it don't thaw overnight in a fridge enough to raise. So she leaves it out all night to thaw, works like it is suppose to. But it's just a bunch of nothing. She is trying it because some old fart has used it, that's all the reason she needs. Like the time when one of the neighbors bought those ropes and pulleys off a TV ad, had to try it to and act like a fool on the floor. :D I'm nothing like that, I don't go out a buy something someone else just had to have. Pretty much every time it ain't worth it anyway, judging from her foibles.  ::)

All this takes is some flour water yeast butter and honey dumped in the breadmaker.  Two hours  later open the lid and dump the hot loaf on a cooling rack. never heard of frozen dough.
I just found out buying  from Canada is considered international shipping.  I see where FedEx says I am responsible  for customs fees, tarrifs and taxes on the tracking that the selling business never mentioned  >:(.  Here I thought we were neighbors and friends for anything  under $500. I learn something new everyday. Guess it's the first and last time I support out northern neighbors economy.  ;D

Same thing for us, even from Amazon.com, but not Amazon.ca. Yet, when I track, a lot of stuff from Amazon.ca is actually coming from the USA , but no tariffs, except if buying from 3rd party sellers down there. Even Home Depot.ca - Got a package that came from Arkansas I think through homedepot.ca, had someone named Mellissa as the seller on the shipping label :D Closest store is 100 miles from here, makes sense to ship. Gotta be big to be exempt. :D :D When Amazon first started up, they never even collected tax until the 'man' clamped down. All kinds of deals the little guy will never see. Remember NAFTA was fiddled around with by Trump. He pithed a lot of weavers off, who buy silk. That extra cost all has to be passed on to the buyer of silk yarn and silk products. They're still buying. Blat for 2 or 3 days like a spoiled child and suck it up. :D

I order something from LLB once in awhile, but they are set up in Canada now. Bypasses all the border nonsense.

Yeah, bread isn't rocket science. But, mother only used her bread maker to mix bread. Always raised and cooked in pans. And you won't convince her otherwise. :D

Well FedEx dropped it off and didn't hand me a bill so everything is good. It's the real one from Italy so I am happy.  I saw comments on amazon about theirs being a chinese made knock off so I kept looking.  Consiglio's Kitchenware is a good site in the end. They have a lot of those Fabio tomato processors like you have SwampDonkey.

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Have to run up to our Amish store for some oat and buckwheat groats tomorrow to try along with our hard wheat berries. Supposed to be able to wse the different wheat berries to make a 5 grain cereal to add to bread.

That's where I got my tomato press, Consiglio's Kitchenware.  And I got a huge discount off the original price. Plus it works. ;D

Use the mix and knead setting on the bread machine, then take out the dough and set it in a bread pan (after a little shaping) and let it rise with something to cover it.  I use a greased piece of saran wrap under a towel so it doesn't stick but holds the moisture in and keep sit warm.  Then back white bread at 400F (or higher if desired) until an internal temp of 190F is reached.

That's a good way to start moving into nice loaves that don't hit the roof :)

You can see me shape the dough into loaves around 19m into this old video (I should really do some new ones! since I know what I'm doing today  ;D :D 8) ).
How to Make Super Simple French Bread! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDFe962LMPA)

It's not a great video but I discuss pretty much all aspects of making French bread and shaping and baking the loaves.

Made my own 7 grain cereal for today's 7 grain bread. Almost  perfect 7 inch tall loaf right from the machine with no work. The house  smells soo good. The wife has been making crock pot oatmeal with flaked steel cut oats from the flaker and it's almost like an oatmeal pudding.

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Time for a nap while it cools enough to cut  8)

Here's a video about how the flaker works
Making 7 Grain Cereal For 7 Grain Bread With A Marga Mulino Grain Flaker - YouTube (https://youtu.be/3nU26ZH7Zak)

Michelle had to have the partial removed and a total knee replacement done Tuesday. Heavy drugs and the usual trouble so far. I made a pot of grits this morning and figured I'd describe how I do it.

I dial in and grind cornmeal to sift through a 16 mesh screen. Most of the pericarp, husk, bran .. whatever term you use, stays big enough to sift out on top of the screen. It is indigestible cellulose and is tough, it tends to stay in larger pieces.  The starchy endosperm and the oily germ pass through the screen, as well as the smaller bran that got broken up small enough to pass through.

I then sift through a 20 mesh screen, that removes almost all the remaining bran from the cornmeal, and the grits, which is just coarsely ground cornmeal.

I then pour the grits in front of a fan and blow away the finer bran. There is then a fraction of the bran that is the right size and weight to be pretty difficult to remove by those methods. I do need to build a winnower to make that operation work better.

At this point, when I pour the grits into water, the grits initially sink and the bran floats for a short while. It does not immediately wet out.  use one of those fine screen spoon type tea strainers to skim the bran off the top of the water.

But not this morning, I made chewy grits. That was a long winded way of describing how you can choose your bran level.

I need to go help a neighbor with a healing bicep a few times today,  the dog's electronic collar is in my pocket. That's Michelle's pager, I asked her to please not use shock  :D

This should be the 1927 Good Housekeeping cookbook, check out "Cereals".
https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/9c45e388-d354-4728-8989-958ca9df4f72/content (https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/9c45e388-d354-4728-8989-958ca9df4f72/content)

Quote from: Don P on December 22, 2023, 09:18:20 AM
Michelle had to have the partial removed and a total knee replacement done Tuesday. Heavy drugs and the usual trouble so far. I made a pot of grits this morning and figured I'd describe how I do it.

I dial in and grind cornmeal to sift through a 16 mesh screen. Most of the pericarp, husk, bran .. whatever term you use, stays big enough to sift out on top of the screen. It is indigestible cellulose and is tough, it tends to stay in larger pieces.  The starchy endosperm and the oily germ pass through the screen, as well as the smaller bran that got broken up small enough to pass through.

I then sift through a 20 mesh screen, that removes almost all the remaining bran from the cornmeal, and the grits, which is just coarsely ground cornmeal.

I then pour the grits in front of a fan and blow away the finer bran. There is then a fraction of the bran that is the right size and weight to be pretty difficult to remove by those methods. I do need to build a winnower to make that operation work better.

At this point, when I pour the grits into water, the grits initially sink and the bran floats for a short while. It does not immediately wet out.  use one of those fine screen spoon type tea strainers to skim the bran off the top of the water.

But not this morning, I made chewy grits. That was a long winded way of describing how you can choose your bran level.

I need to go help a neighbor with a healing bicep a few times today,  the dog's electronic collar is in my pocket. That's Michelle's pager, I asked her to please not use shock  :D

This should be the 1927 Good Housekeeping cookbook, check out "Cereals".
https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/9c45e388-d354-4728-8989-958ca9df4f72/content (https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/9c45e388-d354-4728-8989-958ca9df4f72/content)

Hope Michelle heals quickly.  Sounds like you have everything under control.  After your original posts on the meshes that's exactly what we are doing now. I am thinking about a pvc tube with a tee and variable speed small leaf blower to get the fine stuff out because  I sure make a mess using the fan method.
I wouldn't worry till she puts that colar around your neck  :D Happy Holidays.

Quote from: Paul_H on December 10, 2023, 04:35:18 PM
Tule,
I'll bet it was very tasty!
I have been using a wood ash wash for making nixtimal with our dried Floriana corn. The first batch I made i added too much water and it was mushy like you had. The next time I made it I left the corn to soak an extra day and was sparing with the water a and the results were worth it. We made meatless tortillas using beans and tomatoes from our garden.

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Paul How are you getting the grind fine enough to produce such a beautiful tortilla? Is there a secret? My second try was better but still too coarse.

Hi Tule,
are you grinding nixtimal or cornmeal?
I busted my computer a week ago today and just got a new one this morning and coincidently boiled some ashes early this morning before I picked up the new computer and have a couple cups of corn boiling in the solution right now on the woodstove and it smells really good.
After the corn has steeped a day or two I wash the pericarp off then run the whole corn through the grinder with the plates set close together.

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Is this the same type of grinder you are using? The masa doesn't seem to need musch if any water added

Are you actually cooking it at low heat for 2 days; or letting it sit for 2 days? I cooked mine for 2 hrs. and let it sit for 24 in the cooling state. To me the corn kernels were still kind of chalky and not mushy inside. I've got to get this right. It's driving me crazy!!
And yes, I have the same grinder. I did set it closer together so it is currently very hard to turn. Perhaps that will help.

Thanks for your tips. Keep em coming!

I just cook them in the solution an hour or two then let them sit in the solution a day or two till they are totally chalky,no mush.

My grinder is new and I have it tightened down to the point that it is very hard to turn. Perhaps I need to lap the plates to introduce some wear and tighten it up even more? At the very tightest I am still producing sand like particles and certainly not flour consistency at all.

So out of frustration I put a cup of coarse ground corn meal in a crockpot with some chicken broth and a smoked ham hock. It actually came out pretty good after 5 hours of low temp cooking. Got to get my grinding better!
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Tule your four-legged companion looks disappointed you aren't sharing

The texture of your meal is like that of the local mill grinding it for cereal. If you try to make corn bread, and not cooking the cereal first, it's like chewing course sand. ;D

I listened to DonP and got the mesh sifters for the corn. 16 for grits,  20 for flour, and everything bigger goes back through the grinder after blowing off the precarp.  No more guessing.  I understand that flint corn can be hard to grind with some machines.
I bet the flavor was great. 

I haven't mentioned, that was in my mind but I don't know those mills. There are 2 basic ways to dry grind. My mill does "single pass" milling. I cannot regrind meal (another discussion but that is not a negative). With the introduction of steel mills the process went to "reduction" milling. Keep sifting and regrinding till it goes through the desired screen. That was the purpose of the lines of roller mills, keep sending it up to the sifter to try again then drop to the next stand of finer rolls whatever doesn't pass whichever screen level it landed on.

Then, it looks like Paul is wet grinding hominy to make masa and Rob it looks like you're dry grinding to make meal? Hominy is soft while dry corn is, like flint.

Edit, I happened to be watching a grinding video, these folks are saying that mill can't do much more than crack corn
Testing our GARAGE SALE Grain Mills - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4nDAcelQoQ)

Thank you we enjoyed the video.  We have the grinder for our Kitchen aid it has worked well for us my wife makes two loaves a week they sure are tasty.   Randy

We have been single grinding all the wheat and grains in the Wondermill getting perfect flour everytime. I have been using the Mockmill for corn and find it struggles to single grind corn fine plus plugs up so I sift and re-grind but it's a pain to clean. It's  not recommended for flint corn, only dent corn. The big Vevor is best for fine corn flour but too much clean up for less then a couple pounds. They all have pluses and minuses. 
We did 4 loaves this week for the holiday and it's amazing how everyone that tried it loved the flavor and texture.  It's  funny because  now if we are going somewhere and ask what we can bring, the answer is almost always fresh bread.

There are some Austrian stone mills (link below), but they are pricey. 10 year warranty on their stuff. This place also sells the Mock mills. Some of the mills there won't do corn nor coffee beans. But I think most are out of stock on the website.

Electric Grain Mills (https://www.grainmillsandorganics.ca/Electric-Grain-Mills_c_8.html)

The company is out of Lower L'Ardoise, Nova Scotia. Stocked items only ship within Canada. Some items ship direct from Germany.

Quote from: randy d on December 31, 2023, 06:57:44 PM
Thank you we enjoyed the video.  We have the grinder for our Kitchen aid it has worked well for us my wife makes two loaves a week they sure are tasty.   Randy

Be careful with those; both my dad and I wore out Kitchenaids before I gave up and got the motor for my grainmill.  Now I only use the Kitchenaid to knead for me (my hands are pretty shot most of the time -- like now but I get cortisone again soon so they will work a couple more months lol).

I sometimes bolt my flour (what you're calling 'sifting') with a 40 mesh but then just put the bran and germ in a jar for adding to pancakes etc.

I have found though, that once through the mill without bolting, my whole wheat breads are so soft I don't often bother :D

Our Kitchen Aid is the 575 watt model for the amount that we grind I think we should be good quiet a while thanks for your reply. Randy

Our Kitchenaid is about 18 years old now and has done a lot of dough. We also  use pasta rollers and the meat grinder attachment.  Grinding meat can get that thing very hot but so far no problems.  I would buy another  in a minute if ours smokes but buy the newer more powerful model. Amazing machines.

Glad yours survived!

Both min and my dads were the 6 quart pro models (590watts) both wore out 2+ times.  Of course the first was around 20 years ago so who knows.


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That was my first which lasted me around 10 years.  Perhaps I milled more flour?  I also tended to mill up the hopper without stopping which later Dad and I decided may have been the issue.  Today it's just my kneading machine (and red now since I had to replace the last one after rebuilding).

OlJarhead our grinder head is made out of metal and i think the cutters are a little larger  it really does a nice job of making flour. My wife made a delicious loaf of whole wheat bread today. Life is good Randy

Thanks for posting that Randy.  I want to try grinding my own flour but I was reluctant to sink a bunch of money into it to start. Getting that mill attachment for the mixer looks like a good way for me to get started. Kinda like starting with a manual sawmill before committing to full hydraulic.

Got to make some grain bread here this morning to replenish the stock.  :) My cousin gave us, as mother would put it, 'enough ground roasted flax seed for a lifetime. What am I suppose to do with all that?' My response is; 'Use it, before it turns into soap'. ;D   Doesn't take much to put mother into a tizzy. But yeah, a smaller amount would go a long ways around here. :D I think this is something from Costco. Some folks think more is better, but I bet more is tossed from age than eaten. :D The grocery store here used to sell supersized packaging of stuff a few years ago, like gallon jars of Mayo or ketchup or dill pickles. If you was running a summer canteen that works, but not in the average household. :D

Big brand flour here is Robinhood, which is double what is was 2 years ago, literally. But we do buy cheaper store brands, unbleached, which is better flour anyway. You can't buy 50 lb bags of flour anymore, but we don't use it fast enough. Those small bags of niche flour, maybe 5 lbs, are just about as much as 25 lbs of brand flour. The price game gets to be an old story fast. ::)

Here's my bread this morning.  :) Unbleached flour, cereal, ground flax. Pumpkin and sunflower seed on crust. I made it 2 cups flour bigger for hardier loaves. I put two buns in a pan, then separate when cooked. ;D That's 1 and 1/2 weeks bread for me. I freeze one half because bread will be moldy here by 5 days in the heat, if not sooner.

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Nice -- I'm curious which grinder you're using?  Mine also is steel (Family Grain Mill).

I'm happy having moved to the motor for it, it's expensive but no longer need to affix it to the Kitchenaid :D

Did some rolls a few nights back just because we wanted some with our navy bean soup :)  I haven't bought bread in so long I have no idea what it costs but I do buy some flour.  I prefer Bob's Red Mill for bread flour (or all purpose for French bread) if making whites.  Otherwise I mill my own WW's.  I use both Red and White wheat and these days it's just whichever I open ;)  White currently but when it's out I'll move to a Red.  I have buckets (35lbs ea) of it so plenty to last my lifetime now :D

Here is our grinder
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Nice!  I knew they made one but had never seen it -- I suspect theirs is just right for the head and the reason it's done so well.

Nothing against my grain mill but it killed a kitchen aid more than once ;)

Yeah, KitchenAid shows their mill on their site. Looks rugged. ;D

We grind all of our meat for summer sausage hot dogs franks jerky breakfast sausage and for burgers chili and grinding meat works that motor a lot harder than grinding flour does

A big shout out to all of the input on this thread. With your help, we're finally getting it! I tightened down the cheeks on the grinder to where I was actually getting metal shavings on the dry run and it was almost impossible to turn the handle. We double ground the nixtamal wet corn and added quite a bit more water, surprisingly. I worked the dough and let it sit for about 20 min, before pressing out some perfect little puffy corn tortillas with the bottom of a bowl. Finally, success!! Yahoo and thanks again folks!
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WOC has a whole new meaning  now.  Wizzard Of Corn  8) 8) 8)  smiley_clapping smiley_clapping

First successful loaf of rye today for pastrami Reubens. Used 2/3 hard white and  1/3  rye berries in the machine whole wheat recipe. Picked up some Jewish pastrami and used our fresh crock sauerkraut.  Wow were they good.

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Boy that does look good.

That looks awesome!  Mmmmm

It was amazing.  This year the sauerkraut came out with a really nice bite and the flavor of the good brined pastrami along with aged Swiss was amazing.  The rye bread stayed slightly crispy and it was a winner. Had one of our dill pickles with it also. Going to be a repeat tomorrow for lunch. We really are enjoying that bread machine and the fresh grains. I didn't know what to expect when we got started on this adventure, but now know there is no going back to commercial flour products.

First try at making fresh bagels  :o Don't laugh, it's a learning experience that tastes great but looks pretty sad. Next batch will hopefully resemble real bagels with holes a finger can fit in  ;D.

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I've made bagels.

Here, have a pretzel. ;D  They are made pretty much the way bagels are. Boil'm and bake'm. ;D

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Those last two post looks great!!!!
I really like those thick pretzels!!! Don't like a lot of salt on them, but that can be rubbed off.
Use to be a guy at Freburg Fair that would make them right there in a small booth. I used to but a lot of them. He kept going up in price and I would only buy a couple from him at the end.

Well today's bagels turned into a totally new experience.  My wife started the dough this morning and got to the point it was time to boil and bake them. The power flicked on and off 10 times and then went out. Well we were out over 4 hours and uncovered them to find ugly dried out things that didn't even resemble bagels. Boiled them and they collapsed then added toasted sesame seeds and baked not expecting much. Well we have invented the best bagel rolls ever. So light and airy with the bagel flavor.  A successful failure in the end. Going to use them for ham, egg, and cheese breakfast sandwiches  :o


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Never give up.

Bagels rolled into Baked donuts maybe instead. ;D

I've made baked jelly filled donuts.

I'll have to figure  out how to inject cream cheese and elderberry jelly into them 8)
Actually have some bison burgers defrosting to put on them for tomorrow's lunch  food6

Well it's time to make some bread again. I put some ground roasted flax in mine lately. Around 1/4 cup in with the cereal and hot water and let cool as usual before continuing.

Well, I tried the youtube embed; it looked like it wanted to;

There we go, I think it took. I ordered organic white corn from the folks mentioned in the video I posted a few weeks ago. The truck came last night. About 30 people were there to meet it and we unloaded all kinds of good food and got it sorted to everyone. We moved the loader this morning and my partner had a doc appt so I decided to grind this afternoon. I had ordered 50 lbs so just ground 25 and I'll hold the other for a bit. I've made 2 pans of cornbread tonight, it is good but the non organic from down the mountain has a little better flavor in my mind. Grinding took under a half hour, cleanup took 3 :D

I did not know we had a youtube embed! It worked on mobiletoo

Another loaf of 7 grain.20240201_110606.jpg

Worked

I'll be making some multigrain tomorrow with some ground roasted flax in also. Have used most of a 3 litre container since Christmas. Never thought we'd ever use it all, was gift. I like the flavor in the bread. :) Comes from Saskatchewan.

Yes the 7 grains really add great flavor. We love it toasted for breakfast that really brings out the grain flavors. I am on my Win 10 machine and no problems typing. using the smileys is a problem.

There is something after Win 10?

Windows 11, which I don have. You have to have that security chipset for it to install.

This is a good video, he explains a bit about the different wheats, why to keep it cool and a couple of terms I did not know the roots of. From food service training, he was driving me nuts  ffcheesy.

Great  video. That's why the Mockmill is junk. It roasted everything ground fine in it. Just finished grinding  a red wheat,  rye, and einkorn mixture for today's loaf. Each grain adds unique flavor and texture.   :thumbsup:

Well that was a failure  :wacky:.  Tried 1/3, 1/3, & 1/3 of the red, rye, and einkorn but should have stuck with  50% red and 25%, 25% that we have excellent luck with. Looks like I drove  my truck over it but still has great flavor and texture.  A lot of black magic involved
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Better then working for a living.  Worst one yet. ffcool ffcool ffcool

If you don't get enough gluten it will collapse, same if it is raised too much.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 10, 2024, 01:00:09 PMIf you don't get enough gluten it will collapse, same if it is raised too much.

That's why cutting back the percentage of red wheat threw off the ballance. Added 4 table spoons of vital wheat  gluten and thought it would be fine.

That's why I never add more than a 1/3 cup cereal and ground flax in a 6 cup recipe.

We use 2/3 cup of 7 grain cereal I roll in the 7 grain loaves and that doesn't affect the rise because we use 50% hard red and 50% hard white flour.  I'm trying to get a more robust rye flavor loaf that is the latest fight. Got the flavor now and may try soft white wheat instead of einkorn next loaf with a little extra vital gluten.  Just having fun trying different combinations and testing the results. ffwave

Rye is quite low in gluten compared to wheat and barely. I believe oat flour has no gluten as long as it's not contaminated by other flours in the milling.

Yes that's the issue with rye. Einkorn is also very low gluten. Got the flavor we want but may have to give some of that up for looks. We have also ground groats and rice for gluten free flours to play with gluten free bread for our granddaughter. That is another  whole story that has helped the birds make it through the winter ffcheesy.   

Quote from: 21incher on February 10, 2024, 05:58:01 PMJust having fun trying different combinations and testing the results.

Testing? eating  :wink_2:  
I like seeing the results!!!

Well it's time to make more bread this morning.  :thumbsup:

Fresh batch of bagels just out if the oven. Toasted sesame seeds and crumbled Maldon sea salt flakes. These are our favorites from the breadmaker cookbook.
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First try at Wapsie Valley Grits  ffcheesy. Not bad, birds really like the leftovers. Just had to try it. polenta next. 
:turkey_pork:
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Another loaf of 7 grain bread.  It's our favorite and now comes out perfect everytime.  Rolled the 7 grain cereal first so everything is fresh and flavorful.  I hate to admit it but fresh grits are very good. Made another batch today with the Wapsie Valley Corn that have amazing flavor. Not tasteless like the white grits you buy in the store. The 16 mesh seems perfect for texture.  ffwave :usa:
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Another 9 inch tall white bread today. That bread machine has paid for itself already  ffwave
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Made some bread this week to. I put 2 buns in the pans I have. The pans are extra long and deep so I get a real slice of bread compared to what the regular squatty pans make. Made in USA to. I separate the loaves when I take them out. The bread just falls out of them pans with no effort. I like that mixer to.  ffcool

Rye bread again for Reubens  ffwave.  Costco had that good NYC Jewish pastrami again and still have a jug of kraut left. Finally figured out how to get better  rye flavor.  I rolled a couple tablespoons of rye berries and tossed them in cracked.  Got great flavor  from 50% hard red, 25% hard white,  and 25% rye with cracked rye thrown in.
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Fresh bread this morning, two buns separated.

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8 grain bread today. Used hard white instead of hard red for the loaf and the flavor  of the rolled grains is better.  Cockeyed but amazing flavor. 
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I want the high side!!

Tried breadsticks today and they are awesome.  Not pretty but nice texture and flavor. 
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Dip'm in peanut butter or cheese.  :thumbsup:

Gotta make more bread tomorrow.  ffsmiley

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 18, 2024, 12:17:27 PMDip'm in peanut butter or cheese.  :thumbsup:

Gotta make more bread tomorrow.  ffsmiley

Our homemade tomato sauce goes great. They have some cheese sprinkled on. Practice run for Easter when the grandkids come over. They are breadstick fanatics,  if they are good the oldest grandson will fill his pockets for the ride home 😆.

They'll chomp'm up I'm sure.  ffcheesy

Just took the bread out of the oven and separated the two buns.  ffwave

Another fresh ground Wapsie Valley Corn bread from the machine.  Got cold out so I made a pot of chili to wash it down ffwave
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No recipe, didn't happen  ffcheesy

My last pair of pans of cornbread I used 3 tbsp of dark honey in one and the flavor did come thru. Often for lunch its cornbread and honey... so I was trying to economize on wasted motion.

Life is hard!!  ffcheesy

Cornbread here goes with maple honey (syrup), had that and baked beans (not canned stuff). Coleslaw on the side.  Found room for some chocolate ice cream afterward. ffwave

We only use dried beans for everything and I have a small pressure canner that cooks them up in 24 minutes. The scarlet runner beans we grow are the best  sketti_1


Made some cinnamon rasin bread in the machine and really nice flavor.  Makes great toast for breakfast  ffcool
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