Looking for suggestions on log decks.

[D._Frederick]

bibby,

I don't see the stop and load arms that the log decks have to load one log at a time. I think that you will have problems of getting only one log at a time to feed if your deck is too fast. I don't think that I would go any faster than 15 seconds per log to load or you will loose control.

[Ron Wenrich]

I'd run it at a slower speed.  Ours runs probably at 30-40 seconds to go 20'. 

You should have some sort of a stop on the end.  Otherwise, if you get a log that goes crooked (due to a knot or sweep), you won't be able to straighten it out very well.  With a stop, you just keep running until everything equals out.

[Bibbyman]

Thanks for the input..

Yea,  I know I need a stop/loader.   I'll have to design and build (or have it built).

[Brucer]

How's my math??

Right on.

Three different ways to decide on the best speed.
1) The walking test. Walk along the length of the deck at a speed you'd be comfortable with. Time yourself.
2) A systems approach. Incorporate an log kicker into your loader, and wire up the chain drive motor so the deck stops whenever a log hits the kicker. Then your deck only has to move fast enough to stage a log just as the previous log comes off the mill (Maybe a little faster in case you aren't getting the logs to the deck as fast as Mary is sawing them  ;D)
3) The engineer's approach. What horsepower is your motor? How much weight will you have on the deck at one time? That may be what limits your speed. I've got a design catalogue here if you want to do even more math  :D.

If your motor's big enough and you get the chain moving too fast, you could kick the lugs on the chain right under a log. 15 seconds to stage a log may actually be a bit high. 2-3 feet per minute??

[beenthere]

My interpretation of the 15 seconds was to move the log the length of the 16' deck in 15 seconds.  That would be close to 1 ft per second.   

(Not sure what the Brucer question was about 2-3 ft per minute).  ???

[catfish]

Hey Bibby, when we were running an LT 40 we bought a used 10', two chain Mellot deck powered by a 5hp hyd. unit. If you can find one I think you will agree with me that it is one of the best investments you ever made. Ours was on dirt and took about one hour each Fri. to clean out.

[pigman]

Here is my home made and handy log loading deck.

Stats on deck-16ft long
                       76in wide
                        moves at 10ft per minute
                        1-1/2 hp motor
It is on the back side of the mill. I did this so I can stack boards to be edged on the loading arms and to keep from walking around my board conveyor when loading logs. I do not have stops. I have to manually let the bridge down to load logs.
Most of the deck is made from an old forage box mechanical parts. The problems I have had with it is short logs falling between the chains. I plan to add  two more chains in the middle. I turn the motor on with a switch near the front of the mill  and works fine for loading the mill, but is a nuisance when loading the deck. I plan on getting one of those remote switches used on dust collectors so I can move the logs foward while loading the deck.
The size motor I use will move a full deck of logs at the speed I use, but if you speed the deck much you will need more hp. For an old man like me that is fast enough, but for for someone like Pro Sawyer Mary you might have to speed the chain up to keep up with the sawyer. ;)

[Bibbyman]

Thanks guys. 

Beenthere..   I think Brucer was suggesting a speed of 2-3 ft / minute would be "more better" than the 35 ft/ minute I calculated.  At that speed,  it'd take about a half a minute to advance the next log to the stop/kicker.  I could live with that as it could be done while and between sawing the log that's on the mill.

The 35 ft/minute rate is as slow as I can go with the 60/1 gearbox and cog I got and smallest cog I can get on the gearbox.   However,  that is based on running a 1750 rpm motor direct drive or 1=1.   I thought I'd use V-belt pulleys on the motor and input side of the gearbox.   I could gear down another 4/1 or something like that and get down to the 10 ft / minute range. 

I'm thinking of tapping into the Wood-Mizer hydraulic system to supply the hydraulics for the stop/loader.   I'm thinking of leaving the existing loading arms and system as they are and using a couple of valves and quick compliers to divert HD to log deck loading arms – when in use.

The old Link-Belt gearbox is rated at 1 hp at 1750 rpms and a service factor of 1=1.  The output shaft is 1-3/8".  I think it should be heavy enough – it weights enough!..  But for what I paid for it,  I can chance it.

[D._Frederick]

Bibby,

I would put a jack-shaft in the output to reduce the speed by a 1/4, also that way you would not exceed the "hanging weight" ( pulling force) of the output shaft. I ment 15 seconds for the loading cycle of the log onto the mill, which may be a little long after you learn to run it.

[Bibbyman]

"jack shaft" ???

[Rockn H]

Oh, I know this one! I know this one! ;D :D ;D
A jack shaft is an idler shaft with one ratio sprocket or pulley for power input and a different ratio sprocket or pulley for power output. You use it to change ratios.

http://www.malarkeyengineering.co.uk/images/jackshaft2.jpg

[Bibbyman]

Oh!  Now I get it.  Just another shaft with a big and small cog so as to make another reduction in the overall gear ratio.

Thanks... :P

[smwwoody]

Hi Bibby

Just a few thoughts on the log deck.  first make sure you can run the stop and load at the same time as the chains.  this makes life alot easyer when the logs arn't trimmed real good.  also make sure the lift arms on the stopandload go well below the grade of the chains.  both of these will help load crooked and notty logs.  look at wood mizer's deck it is a top notch unit other than thier lift arms don't go low enough below the grade of the chains.

anothe thing to think about is how you are going to deal with a log when Mary dumps one inbetween the deck and the mill.  It will happen >:(.  If you leave you loader on this should solve that problem. 

Another problem to deal with is how to get a junk log off the mill when the deck is full.

If you arn't going to bolt it down make sure it has enough counter weight to offset heavyest log you will ever have out on the end of the stopand load arms with an empty deck.

I was cutting 14'  Oak 12 X 12's a few weeks ago and since they are so heavy I didn't want to send them up the LT 300's convayer and onto the transfer deck so I had the loader opperator load one log at a time then when it was done I would use the chain turnner to send the cant back onto the stop and load arms then flip it onto the deck run the chains backwards the loader opperator would dump an new log in front of the cant and take the finished cant away.  all this weight on the end of the stop and load arms on an empty deck started to pull the lag bolts out of the floor on the back end of the deck.

Woody

[Ron Wenrich]

FWIW.  Timed our deck at 35 sec for 20'

A real handy item is an overhead winch.  It helps move those pesky logs that don't want to cooperate.

[Brucer]

.. I think Brucer was suggesting a speed of 2-3 ft / minute would be "more better" than the 35 ft/ minute I calculated. At that speed, it'd take about a half a minute to advance the next log to the stop/kicker. I could live with that as it could be done while and between sawing the log that's on the mill.

That's what I was thinking. It's not a bad speed for advancing logs, but if your deck is empty and your sawyer is waiting for you to load it, that's a 5 minute wait for the log to traverse the deck. One of you probably couldn't live with that  ;D. 10 ft/minute does sound more reasonable.

I thought I'd use V-belt pulleys on the motor and input side of the gearbox. I could gear down another 4/1 or something like that and get down to the 10 ft / minute range.

Don't forget -- mechanical drive trains are sized for torque, not power. If you gear down the gearbox input by 4:1, you'll increase the torque by a factor of 4 (the slower it goes, the bigger it's gotta be).

I would put a jack-shaft in the output to reduce the speed by a 1/4, ...

That's the safest option. Gets expensive though -- extra sprockets, big bearings, etc.

[Luke_Eames]

A blast from the past  :D  I did a search for hydraulic gear reducers and motors for log decks and I came across this post. 

Biddy, were you able to get your 60:1 gear reducer to work?? I've been looking at 60:1 gear reducers but I'm having trouble figuring out a good gear reducer and motor pair that can run off my LT 40's hydraulics....

[Beavertooth]

Bibby,
  I have a 20ft Woodmizer deck that I used with my LT70. I had it mounted on a timber mat on one job for 1 1/2 year and just anchored to the gravel ground with rebar with nuts welded on them for 1 year on another job. I had a couple extra side supports out to each side to hold up any long 24ft logs that I cut that may have tried to tip to the heavy end when putting them over on the mill with the tipper and that worked great, was all the extra support I needed. It will hook right into the mills hydraulics. You would have to buy kit with extra switch to run tipper. If I remember right the LT40HD can run it. May have to be a Super but not sure. I had a 6ft extension on my mill that I had added a contact strip to. I ran a string from switch that activated the chain on deck to foot pedal that I built so I could be pulling the logs forward while I was cutting so when I was thru with one log the next one was already in place to put on mill. I have been thinking seriously about selling mine. I would say it is in very good condition or better. It does need new polystrips for chain to ride in. I think they are $300 plus for the set. The deck new is over $11000 after taxes. I am not sure what I would take for it. It can be hauled on a 16ft trailer. It really works great and it is nice to be able to use the hydraulics on your mill instead of having to have an extra setup. I sent you a personal message but you may have not gotten it. I kept it loaded full with 16 to 20ft logs all the time and it would pulled the full deck forward with no problem. Let me know if you  may be interested.

[paul case]

since he posted this originally in 2004?  think it is safe to say he wont want your log deck, since he bought a baker several years ago and has recently stopped sawing full time. Just saying.

PC

[Luke_Eames]

Beavertooth,
Would you be able to share what size hydraulic motor you have on your deck and if you have a gear reducer, what the ratio is?
Thanks,
Luke

[Beavertooth]

Luke,
It just runs off of the hydraulics on the sawmill (mine is LT70). I don't know what the gear ration is. Small one on hydraulic motor on deck and big one on deck. 
                                    Craig